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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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robbiezero

seamus wrote: »

He won't.

I called it out last week, and the media are still at it; hyping up the "we're going to be locked down forever!!!!" train, when there's been no indication that this is the case.

Italy is the poster child for how badly this outbreak could go, and they're lifting their lockdown on Monday. Granted, they started 3 weeks before we did, but their numbers indicate that at this point they have the virus about as under control as we do.

And it's the same in other EU countries. I think for the most part there will be a relatively uniform plan across the EU for this in terms of what is lifted an when.

Rumours have been emerging all over the place for the last few days about non-essential workers being prepped to get back to work on Tuesday.
I work in an area where most of our business involves our clients forward-planning their employees' movements, and we've seen a large uptick in transactions. Which is a clear indicator to me that many companies are confident that they will have employees back on the road inside the next two weeks.

If I had to put money on it, I would say that;

- The 2km ban restriction will be lifted, and maybe rolled back to "do not go to holiday homes or hotels"
- Social distancing guidelines will remain in effect, but Gardai will have the powers to disperse and/or close any public areas deemed to be too busy/crowded
- People will be advised that "merging" extended family groups is OK provided that it's done on a very limited basis
- People with pre-existing conditions and those over 80 will be advised to continue cocooning, with those over 70 without pre-existing conditions will be advised to avoid mixing outside of their household.
- For non-essential business, working from home will still be required unless the employer can provide a good reason why it is not possible/appropriate. And if they cannot maintain social distancing in the workplace, they will have to remain closed.

Agree with you and that package of measures would be a nice boost next week.

drunkmonkey

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Anyone know if dentist practices are open?

Emergency only, was in one Saturday need to get a tooth pulled it's too far gone to save, got some antibiotics and painkillers, there not helping just booked in to get it pulled in the morning. I'd say the rum and cokes destroyed it over the last few weeks.

RooTruth2020

seamus wrote: »

He won't.

I called it out last week, and the media are still at it; hyping up the "we're going to be locked down forever!!!!" train, when there's been no indication that this is the case.

Italy is the poster child for how badly this outbreak could go, and they're lifting their lockdown on Monday. Granted, they started 3 weeks before we did, but their numbers indicate that at this point they have the virus about as under control as we do.

And it's the same in other EU countries. I think for the most part there will be a relatively uniform plan across the EU for this in terms of what is lifted an when.

Rumours have been emerging all over the place for the last few days about non-essential workers being prepped to get back to work on Tuesday.
I work in an area where most of our business involves our clients forward-planning their employees' movements, and we've seen a large uptick in transactions. Which is a clear indicator to me that many companies are confident that they will have employees back on the road inside the next two weeks.

If I had to put money on it, I would say that;

- The 2km ban restriction will be lifted, and maybe rolled back to "do not go to holiday homes or hotels"
- Social distancing guidelines will remain in effect, but Gardai will have the powers to disperse and/or close any public areas deemed to be too busy/crowded
- People will be advised that "merging" extended family groups is OK provided that it's done on a very limited basis
- People with pre-existing conditions and those over 80 will be advised to continue cocooning, with those over 70 without pre-existing conditions will be advised to avoid mixing outside of their household.
- For non-essential business, working from home will still be required unless the employer can provide a good reason why it is not possible/appropriate. And if they cannot maintain social distancing in the workplace, they will have to remain closed.

This seems like wishful thinking to me. What you are suggesting is rolling back to the March 12-March 27th restrictions in one foul swoop. There is no way in the world non essential workers will be back to work from Tuesday. I mean are you crazy - do you understand the damage will cause when new cases exceed 500 a day. And you say it is under control? Wishful thinking.

There will be minimal changes for a period of another two weeks. The number of new cases is too high to ease restrictions, other than minimal tweaks.

You really ought to be more responsible in your posting

RooTruth2020

robbiezero wrote: »

Agree with you and that package of measures would be a nice boost next week.

Yes, a nice boost to the virus.

drunkmonkey

seamus wrote: »

If I had to put money on it, I would say that;

- The 2km ban restriction will be lifted, and maybe rolled back to "do not go to holiday homes or hotels"
- Social distancing guidelines will remain in effect, but Gardai will have the powers to disperse and/or close any public areas deemed to be too busy/crowded
- People will be advised that "merging" extended family groups is OK provided that it's done on a very limited basis
- People with pre-existing conditions and those over 80 will be advised to continue cocooning, with those over 70 without pre-existing conditions will be advised to avoid mixing outside of their household.
- For non-essential business, working from home will still be required unless the employer can provide a good reason why it is not possible/appropriate. And if they cannot maintain social distancing in the workplace, they will have to remain closed.

What is it with Holiday homes, are people determined to not let people visit their second homes, they pay mortgages on them, they contribute to the local economy and help local businesses. Why shouldn't they be allowed go to them as long as they respect distancing.
Patrolling Holliday homes with Drones now seems to be acceptable, it's nanny state on meth.

the kelt

titan18 wrote: »

There are two large threads on this forum about the pub, so it clearly looks like people care about pubs opening. Both those threads have more views and posts than the mental health sticky for example.

I mean looking for transparency and honesty is fine, and I'd agree we're not doing a great job based on how our numbers have gone vs other countries (I've been comparing ours to similarly sized places like Denmark and Norway and i'ts not good)

Its more the rhetoric that people are putting being able to go for a pint above the health of the nation etc etc which is a load of me hole in reality.

Im sure there are people who would love a pint but no ones going to choose a pint over someones life which is constantly been thrown out there.

Yeah i agree with the analysis, ive been looking at other countries and their responses etc particularly in regards to plans for easing restrictions and our own response and increasingly somethings isnt adding up.

Im looking forward to a bit of clarity!

road_high

RooTruth2020 wrote: »

This seems like wishful thinking to me. What you are suggesting is rolling back to the March 12-March 27th restrictions in one foul swoop. There is no way in the world non essential workers will be back to work from Tuesday. I mean are you crazy - do you understand the damage will cause when new cases exceed 500 a day. And you say it is under control? Wishful thinking.

There will be minimal changes for a period of another two weeks. The number of new cases is too high to ease restrictions, other than minimal tweaks.

You really ought to be more responsible in your posting

We’re in lockdown right now. If it such a successful strategy why aren’t the cases dropping?

the kelt

seamus wrote: »

He won't.

I called it out last week, and the media are still at it; hyping up the "we're going to be locked down forever!!!!" train, when there's been no indication that this is the case.

Italy is the poster child for how badly this outbreak could go, and they're lifting their lockdown on Monday. Granted, they started 3 weeks before we did, but their numbers indicate that at this point they have the virus about as under control as we do.

And it's the same in other EU countries. I think for the most part there will be a relatively uniform plan across the EU for this in terms of what is lifted an when.

Rumours have been emerging all over the place for the last few days about non-essential workers being prepped to get back to work on Tuesday.
I work in an area where most of our business involves our clients forward-planning their employees' movements, and we've seen a large uptick in transactions. Which is a clear indicator to me that many companies are confident that they will have employees back on the road inside the next two weeks.

If I had to put money on it, I would say that;

- The 2km ban restriction will be lifted, and maybe rolled back to "do not go to holiday homes or hotels"
- Social distancing guidelines will remain in effect, but Gardai will have the powers to disperse and/or close any public areas deemed to be too busy/crowded
- People will be advised that "merging" extended family groups is OK provided that it's done on a very limited basis
- People with pre-existing conditions and those over 80 will be advised to continue cocooning, with those over 70 without pre-existing conditions will be advised to avoid mixing outside of their household.
- For non-essential business, working from home will still be required unless the employer can provide a good reason why it is not possible/appropriate. And if they cannot maintain social distancing in the workplace, they will have to remain closed.

That all seems perfectly reasonable.

Ive been looking at some of the social distancing measures as something that should be followed even if we got a vaccine in the morning.

Tacitus Kilgore

road_high wrote: »

We’re in lockdown right now. If it such a successful strategy why aren’t the cases dropping?

Why aren't they growing exponentially?

easypazz

road_high wrote: »

We’re in lockdown right now. If it such a successful strategy why aren’t the cases dropping?

Its pointless extending it. If it has not worked by now then it has failed.

I agree to a phased rollback of restrictions of a period of a month or 2.

In the medium term we can all live with social distancing to contain the spread.

But this is pointless if it has no worked by now.

ixoy

the kelt wrote: »

Its more the rhetoric that people are putting being able to go for a pint above the health of the nation etc etc which is a load of me hole in reality.

Exactly - very frustrating. Most people want restrictions eased so that they can, in some form, maybe see relatives or friends outside of a screen.
Or perhaps they want to try and work again to earn money that will contribute.

It's not just a matter that the government is paying out money, it's also not taking in money - VAT receipts, for example, have plummeted because people aren't spending. Let's at least try and begin to bring down the first and bring up the latter. Slowly, but surely.

SusanC10

Stark wrote: »

I'm mostly interested in if I can visit family again. I'm in Dublin at the moment and they're in Cork. If this drags on, I'm giving serious consideration to terminating lease in Dublin and finding somewhere to rent down in Cork.

I wish they could give some clearer indication of how things are going and if people will be allowed to travel long distances to see family members so I can plan accordingly.

Me too. My Mum (elderly with health conditions) who is cocooning lives 3.5 hours away from where we do. We also own the house next to hers (previously my Grandparents) but now classed as our "holiday home". I would like if we could travel there for a couple of days while bringing our own supplies etc with us.
However, I do think that it will be at least June and possibly later before this is allowed.

RooTruth2020

easypazz wrote: »

Its pointless extending it. If it has not worked by now then it has failed.

I agree to a phased rollback of restrictions of a period of a month or 2.

In the medium term we can all live with social distancing to contain the spread.

But this is pointless if it has no worked by now.

Yes, a phased rollback is sensible but that is not what Seamus proposed - effectively, rolling back to March 26.

Don't you realize ho much worse things would be if lock down were not happening. None of us can judge the effectiveness of the measures.

Tacitus Kilgore

easypazz wrote: »

Its pointless extending it. If it has not worked by now then it has failed.

I agree to a phased rollback of restrictions of a period of a month or 2.

In the medium term we can all live with social distancing to contain the spread.

But this is pointless if it has no worked by now.

It is working though - where are you getting the idea that it hasn't worked?

DeVore

Why do people continue to say the lockdown hasnt worked?!

easypazz

DeVore wrote: »

Why do people continue to say the lockdown hasnt worked?!

If it has worked then ease restrictions on May 5th.

Hogzy

DeVore wrote: »

Why do people continue to say the lockdown hasnt worked?!

Because theyre idiots and think they know more from behind their computer screens than people on the frontline who are working to try and contain the virus day in day out!

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

Its pointless extending it. If it has not worked by now then it has failed.

I agree to a phased rollback of restrictions of a period of a month or 2.

In the medium term we can all live with social distancing to contain the spread.

But this is pointless if it has no worked by now.

How has it failed?

Kermit.de.frog

easypazz wrote: »

If it has worked then ease restrictions on May 5th.

I'm sure restrictions will be eased when lives are protected.

We are not there yet.

pjohnson

DeVore wrote: »

Why do people continue to say the lockdown hasnt worked?!

I think its based on the idea that if it worked there would be no cases left, everything will reopen ASAP and we all live happily ever after!

lord quackinton

Penfailed wrote: »

It's really, really easy to say things like this with the benefit of hindsight.

Firstly I have posted this from the start
Check the record
I am an accountant I deal in numbers and I knew from the numbers this was not serious for the majority of people
But it was affecting the elderly
I am not a health professional not a politician and I could see that

But why did the government from the outset prioritise hospitals over nursing homes?
I suggest the answer is that the hospitals are full of powerful well paid public servants
Nursing homes are full of elderly people and mostly low paid workers

This lockdown was to “protect those at risk” yet the government put more effort into building morgues and extra facilities at hospitals instead of moving to protect the nursing homes
Even Ppe was given to state hospitals and nursing homes and private nursing homes which are the majority were told to go buy their own

There are serious questions to ask and the hindsight Answer just won’t do

seamus

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What is it with Holiday homes, are people determined to not let people visit their second homes, they pay mortgages on them, they contribute to the local economy and help local businesses.

You're answering it there yourself. If people go down to holiday homes, they're interacting with local businesses, potentially spreading the virus.

There are logistical issues too, where areas heavily reliant on tourism now don't have the capacity to deal with an influx of tourists; restaurants are closed, supermarkets are under pressure from residents already. As a result, the local infrastructure comes under intense pressure.

road_high wrote: »

We’re in lockdown right now. If it such a successful strategy why aren’t the cases dropping?

They are.

In the week beginning 6th April, cases rose by 93%. Avg. cases/day 665.
In the week beginning 13th April, cases rose by 58%. Avg. cases/day 799
In the week beginning 20th April (last week), it rose by 26%. Avg. cases/day 573

The fact that case numbers haven't dropped off cliff doesn't mean they're not dropping. It means your understanding of the problem is flawed and your expectations unreasonable.

RooTruth2020

DeVore wrote: »

Why do people continue to say the lockdown hasnt worked?!

Because they are wishful thinking.

I'm sick of hearing on radio, TV, newspapers, and social media that fatigue is setting in. The only people who are fatigued are the doctors, nurses, and other healthcare professionals who are working relentlessly and putting their lives on the line every time they come to work. No one else has a license to be fed up or fatigued.

ixoy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm sure restrictions will be eased when lives are protected.

Are you of the opinion we can't lift any restrictions on the 5th? The evidence of transmission rate would suggest otherwise. No huge lift obviously, but some small elements rolled back. Most other EU nations are doing this and no, they're not all better than we are.

NegativeCreep

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not a virologist but taking people out of hospital with Covid and putting them into nursing homes was downright stupidity of the highest order.
Who made that call, who took the bad advice. Harris was gleeful after solving the trolley crisis, he's a fully fledged idiot.

Did that happen? I must’ve completely missed that. Absolutely ridiculous carry on to put an infected person in the same building as the people we’re most trying to protect from getting it.
And then we get the finger wagged at us and told we’re naughty boys and girls for going outside 2km. You actually couldn’t make it up.

hopalongcass

Hogzy wrote: »

Because theyre idiots and think they know more from behind their computer screens than people on the frontline who are working to try and contain the virus day in day out!

Heres somebody from the frontline why don't you take a few minutes out of your day and watch that before you call people idiots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLVxx_lBLU&t=418s

easypazz

seamus wrote: »

If people go down to holiday homes, they're interacting with local businesses, potentially spreading the virus.

They are also reducing the number of people in built up areas, potentially reducing the spread of risk there and making social distancing more attainable.

JazzyJ

DeVore wrote: »

Why do people continue to say the lockdown hasnt worked?!

I guess, for some reason, people are expecting the virus to be completely gone with the lockdown and the fact that there still new cases appearing every day seem to think that it's failed.

Really they're looking for a quick fix, and there is none. Reality just hasn't hit home. This is going to be a really really long drawn out process unfortunately.

omeara1113

I honestly think two more weeks will do no harm the health of people is more important than going for a few pints this is not the time to let up

easypazz

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm sure restrictions will be eased when lives are protected.

We are not there yet.

Full lockdown forever if necessary camp so.