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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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normanoffside

omeara1113 wrote: »

If the deaths and the number of cases keep rising like yesterday it's hard to see any easing of restrictions

Another one who fails to read the other posts in the thread and just spews hysterics.
There's just no way to debate and reason with lockdown merchants.

ixoy

omeara1113 wrote: »

If the deaths and the number of cases keep rising like yesterday it's hard to see any easing of restrictions

Or more intelligent analysis of the data is what's required - where are the cases rising specifically? With whom? Is it existing clusters or loads of new clusters? Is it new cases or cases that weren't previously being detected?

A blanket look at cases rising is too simplistic, especially when it's also balanced against measures you take when removing restrictions (which need to be lightened before people just do it themselves in a far more sloppy fashion).

BanditLuke

Spencer Brown wrote: »

It's hard to know if you are serious or an idiot

He is spot on with his assertion.

Gael23

A bit of good news for the lockdown brigade
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/0423/1134251-coronavirus-world/

Nermal

Augeo wrote: »

As of 22 April, the Department of Health has confirmed 16,671 cases and 769 deaths, 4.6%.

Are people actually reading this?

Quoting fatality rates based on positive tests. That's a block.

Spencer Brown

BanditLuke wrote: »

He is spot on with his assertion.

We both know that the increased cases are almost primarily driven by the intensive nursing home testing that started the other day, it is not reflective of what is happening in the general community, we also know that there is a delay in reporting deaths. So no he is not spot on with his assertion.

[Deleted User]

Ireland is an odd country. Masks are too weird and people who think social distancing should last longer are called lockdown merchants.

Retr0gamer

Supercell wrote: »

Your missing my point (which has zero to do about jogging actually - some people here dont seem to believe that there are more on the streets than earlier in the lockdown, thats not the case), my point is that people are increasing ignoring the lockdown rules and this longer that goes on the more that's going to be the case. They are far too restrictive, there needs to be a better way. Sweden seem to be doing alright without such draconian measures, perhaps we should be looking to their approach?

Sweden has had a massive spike in death that are officially not due to corona virus outside of the mean that is expected for this time of the year and outside of the trend for the last few years. They are misreporting deaths and not attributing then to corona. The economist had a great article on this. Sweden is a disaster and their nursing homes are being ravaged but not being reported as corona related.

trapp

BanditLuke wrote: »

He is spot on with his assertion.

Don't always be for negatives my poor man.

There is life beyond the virus.

We will succeed and our way of life will succeed

You still believe children and young people are affected as badly as older people?

Just wondering as you never replied yesterday my poor man?

You seem to have a habit my poor friend of saying very negative things and then not replying when these ideas are shown to be rather foolish.

Retr0gamer

begbysback wrote: »

The restrictions were put in place out of fear of the unknown, now we know a lot more about its impact, we know where the worse affected are, and therefore we can put measures into place in specific areas, we know what to do if we are infected, we know the precautions are working, we know if there is a sudden spike when restrictions are lifted then we may need to go back to the current regime. We now know we have to live with the virus, so ultimately we should have a choice of how to live with it.

You might have a choice but the people that end up infected because of not following lockdown measures don't have a choice. It's in credibly selfish to the vulnerable and Frontline workers.

normanoffside

740 of the new cases in the past 2 days were in Nursing homes.
Please read this Lockdown Brigade

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1253232672345817088

[Deleted User]

Nermal wrote: »

Quoting fatality rates based on positive tests. That's a block.

The article was based on deaths v confirmed cases.
Block away.

begbysback

https://twitter.com/KSBoswell/status/913444594641141760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E913444594641141760&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmymodernmet.com%2Fprofessors-funny-t-shirt%2F

ixoy

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland is an odd country. Masks are too weird and people who think social distancing should last longer are called lockdown merchants.

I think we can't continue as is, in terms of lockdown, but masks seem like an increasingly good idea and social distancing as well. The social distancing thing will be the biggest risk - people will be good at complying with strangers, but less so with friends/family. We're just likely going to have to accept that and deal with the increase that comes from it.

[Deleted User]

Augeo wrote: »

The article was based on deaths v confirmed cases.
Block away.

Which is a nonsense number

normanoffside

Deleted User wrote: »

Which is a nonsense number

Yep, it's like saying the 740 positive cases in nursing homes discovered in the last 2 days weren't infected until they tested them.

Strumms

Ms2011 wrote: »

They're not closed, I was there on Monday

The correct thing would and is like my dentist... opening up and making himself available only for emergency’s. If your dentist is seeing patients on spec or by regular appointment, for checkups or to perform procedures that are wholly cosmetic or non emergency restorative procedures I’d think very little of them...

KrustyUCC

normanoffside wrote: »

740 of the new cases in the past 2 days were in Nursing homes.
Please read this Lockdown Brigade

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1253232672345817088

Still not happy with the increase in figures but nursing home clusters affecting the numbers makes sense to me

I still would appeal to all to follow restrictions up to the 5th

I'm one who really wants some easing of the restrictions so we have a week to keep the heads down

Gregor Samsa

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland is an odd country. Masks are too weird and people who think social distancing should last longer are called lockdown merchants.

Not that I necessarily agree with the term, but the person above who was responded to with the term "lockdown merchants" said "it's hard to see any easing of restrictions".

That's a very different thing from just thinking that social distancing should last longer. Lets not confuse the terminology. It would be possible - and it's indeed highly likely to occur - that we could have an easing of the restrictions and still have social distancing. It's the physical interaction between people that spreads this disease - not the radial distance you travel from your house or what kind of shop you enter.

Thelonious Monk

So you're part of the bunker brigade and a lockdown merchant if you're just enjoying your days ff and making the most of it and waiting patiently for the restrictions to lift without complaining too much, that's what I'm doing anyway.
Why don't the people moaning on here go out and protest like they're doing in America? If you're not doing this you're as much a part of the bunker brigade as I am, except you're whining about the economy etc on forums.

HeidiHeidi

Merry Prankster wrote: »

Even if, with the benefit of hindsight, we learn that the global lockdowns went too far, they were based upon current best medical knowledge and practice. It they hadn't been introduced and the death toll were much higher, the same critics would be berating governments for not taking it seriously enough.

It's easy to forget just how uncertain everything was at the beginning. But sure hindsight is a wonderful thing - if you'd had it a while ago, you might have been able to modify previous comments by yourself, like this one from the 10th March:

...or this one, from the same day...

...or this one, from the 14th March...

I'm not a fan of trawling back through posters' history to catch them out, and this comment certainly isn't directed at this particular poster in any way, but....

I wish I could thank this a hundred times. The amount of Captain Hindsights on this and other threads, propounding their certain knowledge of what should have been done three weeks ago, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, is sickening.

Step up to the plate, lads, and be in place for the next time - you'll smash it out of the park :rolleyes:

Clonmel1000

Tbh looking around this area today one would think the restrictions have been lifted. Roads and garages busy kids out playing together with zero social distancing and walkways etc busy with people not to mention the amount of vans with high viz jackets in them zooming around.

Supercell

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Sweden has had a massive spike in death that are officially not due to corona virus outside of the mean that is expected for this time of the year and outside of the trend for the last few years. They are misreporting deaths and not attributing then to corona. The economist had a great article on this. Sweden is a disaster and their nursing homes are being ravaged but not being reported as corona related.

Hold on, nobody is saying that there wont be a jump in overall deaths, thats happening here too remember, we are one of the worst if anything. However, by the end of this will they have had any more excess deaths than us?, their hospitals are not being overrun which would suggest not - the sick are not being denied treatment.
However their economy is not being utterly devastated, they are not suffering from 25% unemployment as we are with massively rising national debt.

No matter what you do , people will die, the question here is are we really saving more lives here and if so at what cost? While some people seem to think we should let the economy burn to prolong the lives of everyone, even those on deaths door anyhow, governements have to make this decision all the time - https://www.marketplace.org/2019/03/20/how-value-life/
We cannot let civilisation collapse into abject misery and poverty for all because of the misguided belief that all lives are inherently precious, that's naivety, they are not.

normanoffside

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Not that I necessarily agree with the term, but the person above who was responded to with the term "lockdown merchants" said "it's hard to see any easing of restrictions".

That's a very differen thing from just thinking that social distancing should last longer. Lets not confuse the terminology. It would be possible - and it's indeed highly likely to occur - that we could have an easing of the restrictions and still have social distancing. It's the physical interaction between people that spreads this disease - not the distance you travel from your house or what kind of shop you enter.

Yep, we need to get on with things while maintaining social distancing policies.
That's what we were doing for 2 weeks before the 'lockdown'.
Is there any proof that the stricter measures were more successful than the previous ones?

I can't see any reason why some sports like for example, Tennis, Golf, fishing and others can't be allowed to resume because they can easily be played with social distancing in place.

What Username Guidelines

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Still not happy with the increase in figures but nursing home clusters affecting the numbers makes sense to me

I still would appeal to all to follow restrictions up to the 5th

I'm one who really wants some easing of the restrictions so we have a week to keep the heads down

Agree. Gonna be 17C on Saturday tho, reckon people will slide heavily towards relaxed mode.

Strumms

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland is an odd country. Masks are too weird and people who think social distancing should last longer are called lockdown merchants.

Very odd..I think it comes from nothing even economic but the headless attention seeking needy fûckwits who get put in a massive tailspin by the very idea that they cannot go and meet people, cannot travel to see people, cannot talk to people face to face... they are crawling on the fûcking ceiling and threats to break the restrictions are all they can muster...

It’s been spelt out very clearly that the fastest pathway to this being fixed is by everyone sucking it up, dealing with restrictions, playing their part by being disciplined ... being a bit bored, being a bit lonely, whatever but being very much alive... happy and content too that these temporary feelings and emotions will pass with these restrictions and we’ll win this fight and keep people alive...

Thelonious Monk

Strumms wrote: »

Very odd..I think it comes from nothing even economic but the headless attention seeking needy fûckwits who get put in a massive tailspin by the very idea that they cannot go and meet people, cannot travel to see people, cannot talk to people face to face... they are crawling on the fûcking ceiling and threats to break the restrictions are all they can muster...

It’s been spelt out very clearly that the fastest pathway to this being fixed is by everyone sucking it up, dealing with restrictions, playing their part by being disciplined ... being a bit bored, being a bit lonely, whatever but being very much alive... happy and content too that these temporary feelings and emotions will pass with these restrictions and we’ll win this fight and keep people alive...

And don't forget saying things like "people wont put up with it much more" while sat at home on their laptops like the rest of us

Harry Palmr

I'm quietly looking forward to being able to go back to work in my sector after May 5th. I'm not shouting it or protesting about it. I'm going to be patient and trust the hints being dropped are genuine.

Gregor Samsa

normanoffside wrote: »

Yep, we need to get on with things while maintaining social distancing policies.
That's what we were doing for 2 weeks before the 'lockdown'.
Is there any proof that the stricter measures were more successful than the previous ones?

I can't see any reason why some sports like for example, Tennis, Golf, fishing and others can't be allowed to resume because they can easily be played with social distancing in place.

I personally think that one reason the stricter measures were necessary was to pull us all back to a state of minimum activity from which the spread of the virus could be measured, and from which we can advance with caution. I think whether they were more successful or not will be something that will only be know with future analysis. Right now, they afforded us a period of reduced "noise" in which it was easier to gather the data we needed to make informed decisions.

There's certainly things that are currently restricted that are very low risk, but that's as it needs to be for a short time.

It's a bit like telling your kids "no eating in the car". You don't want them getting crumbs everywhere, dropping banana peels and putting chocolaty fingers on the upholstery, so you just ban eating - even though having a few grapes probably wouldn't cause any issues. You start off with the strict rule to set a baseline, then over time you can ease up on it.

HeidiHeidi

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

And don't forget saying things like "people wont put up with it much more" while sat at home on their laptops like the rest of us

This made me laugh