Greta Uneven Termite wrote: » Men are the biggest threat to everyone actually. The vast majority of the perpetrators and victims of violent and sexual* crime are men. But if you're not one of those perpetrators then there's no need to take that statement of fact personally. Women are the biggest threat to babies IIRC. Women commit the most emotional abuse, by far. Women, God help us, are responsible for the Kardashians being famous. See how I can say those things and it doesn't mean that I'm saying that any individual woman on this thread is an emotionally abusive infanticide enthusiast who rushes out to buy all the new Kardashian crap? *men being the biggest perpetrators there, not victims.
PCeeeee wrote: » Anewme, perhaps you are right. Maybe the metoo thing will help people. I don't know. There are elements to it that make me uncomfortable. Chief among them is this. If a crime has been committed then it needs to be reported to the police. That is the way the system works. No report means no investigation means no conviction and punishment. The system does not work in the absence of reporting.
Greta Uneven Termite wrote: » And so if there's something like, I don't know, a highly visible social media campaign off the back of one of the biggest news stories of the year where women talk about their experiences in a way men can't possibly miss the response would be "oh my god, thanks for telling me, I never realised because you didn't talk about it"?
LLMMLL wrote: » So you think women should tell men about their sexual harassment but get annoyed when they do that on social media?
One eyed Jack wrote: » Thankfully as I said though, there are only a small amount of people in society who want to perpetuate these types of gender myths, and the vast majority of women in my experience at least don't need to be told that men will take them seriously. They know as much already from an early age that they are listened to, and they will be believed.
Wibbs wrote: » Frankly yes.
Martina1991 wrote: » The point of #metoo is to create awareness. To make everyone realise how common sexual harassment is. ... The only way to stop it is to educate your children (boys and girls) about how to treat others, not just as kids but as teenagers too.
One eyed Jack wrote: » But people are already aware of how common sexual harassment is, and they are aware of just how rare it is too, and they have been educating their children in how to treat others, and their children have learned how to treat others by learning from others too. That's why the metoo hashtag like all these other hashtags in the virtual world are ineffective at creating or raising any sort of awareness, because people are generally exposed to a lot more in their lives, for a lot longer, than the latest trending hashtag.
sonic85 wrote: » What do you want us to do about it - serious question? Can the women on the thread actually give solutions to this in a clear and concise way?
Wibbs wrote: » *sound of crickets*
Wibbs wrote: » Apparently they never or very rarely tell men about all these threats and assaults. It's not just a recent thing, even your mother's experiences mirrored your own. What's the bloody point is an easy out and again it's Men's™ fault, even though apparently Women™ don't say anything and haven't for generations.
Martina1991 wrote: » No they are not. Ask your partner/ sisters/ cousins/ friends if they've been sexually assaulted and I would say there's a good chance all of them have had some experience with it. I wouldn't say it's been ineffective. We're all on this thread talking about it. It's been catapulted into the public eye and all over the media because it's been outed in Hollywood.
kylith wrote: » Well, looking at this thread the reasons women don't talk about this is: not wanting to upset our loved ones when there's nothing they can do about it, being told that X shouldn't upset us when it does, being told we should take it as a compliment, being told we're blowing it out of proportion, being told we're lying, being told we're jumping on the bandwagon, knowing that we'll have to listen to 'But Y happens to men', knowing that the man we say it to will claim that he has never seen X happen so he won't believe it, knowing that we will be told that the guy who did it is actually a 'really nice guy' who didn't mean it, not wanting to relive it over and over if we do report something serious, not wanting to have our character assassinated in a court if we report something serious, an endless lifetime of hearing that we shouldn't be surprised that X happens if we walk down a certain street, or dress a certain way, or have a couple of drinks, or are alone with a man/men. I'm sure there are more.
One eyed Jack wrote: » Why would I even want to ask anyone that? If someone tells me about their experience, I'll listen, but I have no intention of ever asking anyone have they ever been sexually assaulted. How many people have you ever asked have they been sexually assaulted? How many people have asked you have you ever been sexually assaulted? I know you posted some examples of your experiences a minute ago but it's just a thing with me that I wouldn't quote them as the person may want to retract them, but how many people have you risked relating your experiences to them offline? It's easier to 'raise awareness' with complete strangers, because you don't know them, they don't know you, and it'll all die down fairly soon anyway. That doesn't happen offline because you have to interact with your partner / sisters / cousins / friends every day, and they have to interact with you, so how much awareness are you raising really, and what is the significant effect of that?
Crea wrote: » How about men keep their damn hands to themselves and not act like assholes when they hear the word "no"?
Crea wrote: » Do you know why we don't tell? Because if you do our freedom is restricted. Some sleaze feels you up at a disco/concert/holiday /pub as a teen and the parents answer is not to let their daughters go to those places again. "Don't put yourself in that position again" seems to be the message given to women. Unless the Dad's, brothers, boyfriends actually shadow the women they aren't going to be there to break the fingers of every asshole would pinches, gropes and fondles. They aren't going to be there to punch every guy who says prick tease or pushes you against a wall because you turned him down. Tbh the vast majority of times it happened to me it was done by a stranger in passing and I couldn't point them out anyway. In one case it was a friends husband and highlighting it would probably damage our friendship so I avoid him and "don't put myself into that position again". Yet again women are blamed for it happening because we don't speak up when it does. How about men keep their damn hands to themselves and not act like assholes when they hear the word "no"?
Deleted User wrote: » The problem with the Metoo campaign is that it encourages fear in men. That anything we might do will be seen as sexual harassment. We already have to deal with nasty verbal rejections, mix-signals (the woman repeatedly touches you, but isn't actually interested), etc. but now a misunderstanding about her interest (or lackof) has moved beyond a simple mistake to something serious, and later, perhaps criminal..... I But at the same time, campaigns like this tell us that men should intervene to protect women; To stop this kind of behavior from happening.
Deleted User wrote: » In terms of dating, does this mean that women will start making approaches, initiating and encouraging encounters etc... now that almost any "romantic" initiative by a man towards a woman can be shown as sexual harassment? Because I've been thinking back over conversations with friends and my own experiences, and mostly those little movements towards a relationship or dating happened because the man initiated them. The women usually waited for it to happen and then made their decision whether it was welcome or not. The problem with the Metoo campaign is that it encourages fear in men. That anything we might do will be seen as sexual harassment. We already have to deal with nasty verbal rejections, mix-signals (the woman repeatedly touches you, but isn't actually interested), etc. but now a misunderstanding about her interest (or lackof) has moved beyond a simple mistake to something serious, and later, perhaps criminal. I get that sexual harassment occurs. I think all men have seen it happen but how do you prevent it? Physical intervention brings a host of legal problems and even then, you're interfering with another persons' issues, and you don't really know whats going on. I've seen a guy step in when he saw a woman being hit by her boyfriend and then experienced a bottle over the head by the girlfriend... she protected the boyfriend that hit her. When the Gardai arrived, the guy was charged with assault, not the boyfriend hitting the woman. But at the same time, campaigns like this tell us that men should intervene to protect women; To stop this kind of behavior from happening. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
Martina1991 wrote: » If that's the take home message you're getting you're way off the mark. If you don't know the difference between flirting with a woman and assaulting one then you have a big problem.
Deleted User wrote: » And it's not as if you walk into a club or bar, and every guy grabs you. Every night. Every time you go out. But that's what you and campaigns like this are promoting. But this "men" outrage paints all men or even simply the majority of men as behaving badly. I don't see these campaigns shouting thanks to the men who don't behave badly... or highlighting the need to identify the minority that behaves badly.
Deleted User wrote: » Love this. Note: I said sexual harassment. Not assault.
Martina1991 wrote: » Ok. If you don't know the difference between flirting with a woman and sexual harassment you have a big problem. Better?
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