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Classic Rock Forum Feedback Part II

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  • 10-09-2012 9:23pm
    #1
    Malice
    Registered Users Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭


    I have created this thread as a follow-on from the previous one. I'd like to address a couple of points that were made that I was unable to before the previous thread was locked.
    dr.bollocko wrote:
    So far as I am aware, the rock / metal forum will continue as is
    No one discussed this with any of the Rock & Metal moderators either before the forum was created or now that the forum is live. This is the only mention to date of what is to happen with the existing forum. One of the many concerns I raised with the Classic Rock forum creator was to do with genre. Would it be possible to actually define classic rock in the charter?
    LoLth wrote:
    on occasion the admins can approach a forum mod and suggest a sub-forum
    There was no approach or suggestion in this case. I was asked for my thoughts on it and any questions I raised were ignored. It then transpired that the request for my input was nothing more than a thinly-veiled "This is happening so get used to it". I don't believe it's right that someone who doesn't post in or visit a forum should have the power to make drastic changes to that forum without at least having the courtesy to discuss and respond to any concerns raised by the local moderators.
    Post edited by Shield on


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    #2
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Fair play to you Malice, not often Mods (even old, er venerated ones) stick their head above the parapet.
    One of the many concerns I raised with the Classic Rock forum creator was to do with genre. Would it be possible to actually define classic rock in the charter?

    Which was the first thought that popped into my tiny brain at the time of the request.


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    #3
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    The Darkness, Kasabian, Chesney Hawkes, that kind of thing, no?


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    #4
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    To concur with the sentiment of Malice's earlier post, and as a regular poster in the main R&M forum, I really dont understand the need for the new one tbh.

    I mean, we have a Rock and Metal forum, and now a classic rock forum. Should we have one forum for Rock and one for Metal? Who is in charge of defining which is which?

    In my opinion all this move will do is take a forum which doesnt recieve heavy traffic as it is (R&M) and dilute the target audience even further. I also dont see why classic rock acts cant be discussed in the existing R&M forum (seeing as classic rock is still "Rock" and part of the "Rock and Metal" remit)

    /My two cents


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    #5
    sentient_6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,780 ✭✭✭sentient_6


    The only thing id say about Rock & Metal, at the moment, in my opinion, is it's generally far more metal than it is rock. Whether thats stopping people from posting...i dunno.

    Of course i dont see why any recent activity that the classic rock forum is generating couldnt just happen in R&M all long either. We could just be one big happy family! :pac:


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    #6
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,203 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    sentient_6 wrote: »
    The only thing id say about Rock & Metal, at the moment, in my opinion, is it's generally far more metal than it is rock. Whether thats stopping people from posting...i dunno.
    Quick look at the front page of the R&M forum now

    15 threads not genre specific
    3 Threads on rock: Pearl Jam, Therapy?, Rush
    2 Threads on a metal: Metallica 'Rate what the user above you is listening to (Metal)'

    Not sure where Sirocco, Marillion and Warrior Soul fit in as never listened to them, Steve Vai, Devin Townsend probably somewhere in between.

    Probably missed out some, but my point is it's silly to suggest the R&M forum is unfriendly towards rock. Classic rock fits right under the umbrella of R&M and I don't see any need for a stand alone forum.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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    #7
    Schism
    Registered Users Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭Schism


    I've noticed from having a browse through the Classic Rock forum that a lot of the posts are being made by people who I wouldn't normally see posting in the Rock & Metal forum.

    Just an observation, not sure what it means. Maybe some people came into Rock & Metal, didn't see anything familiar and declined to post or add a thread of their own.

    If there is enough demand for a forum specifically catering to Classic Rock then I don't see any harm in having it if it doesn't take from the traffic going to the pre existing Rock & Metal forum.

    In my opinion though a forum dedicated to Classic Rock is a niche that isn't needed as anything defined as Classic Rock fits into the Rock & Metal band just as well. If a Classic Rock forum is needed, then going by some of the posters in Rock & Metal, a Death Metal forum would be just as warranted. However as I stated originally there's a few new people posting in Classic Rock, so if allowing those people to have a space where they feel comfortable to discuss certain bands it's no skin off my nose.

    One other issue I can see arising for mods is where to draw the line in genre. If I were to post a thread on Deep Purple in Rock & Metal, should it remain? as it is Rock. Or should it be moved? as it is most certainly Classic Rock too.

    Overall I think it's an unnecessary subdivision but as long as there's no confusion I don't see the harm. Time will tell :)


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    #8
    Mr. CooL ICE
    Registered Users Posts: 17,501 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    Schism wrote: »
    However as I stated originally there's a few new people posting in Classic Rock, so if allowing those people to have a space where they feel comfortable to discuss certain bands it's no skin off my nose.

    But what is it about the R&M forum that people wouldn't be comfortable posting in there, but feel comfortable posting in Classic Rock? It's well moderated, everyone is friendly and there's a somewhat wide selection of music available... including classic rock


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    #9
    old gregg
    Registered Users Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭old gregg


    I can't see a problem with the new forum. My guess is that many of the folks who'll post in Classic Rock will be of an older age group and might find the existing R & M forum a little intimidating.

    I don't see any reason why people who want to post about a band like Deep Purple can't do so in either forum depending on which they feel most comfortable with.

    Personally, even as an older-ish person I'd have little interest in Classic Rock. It just doesn't do it for me. I can't say I find the R & M forum to be that inviting but it's where most of the Metal music I listen to is discussed. For the most part, I prefer the atmosphere and friendliness of the Electronic music forum.


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    #10
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Classic Rock could be a sub forum for Oldwans 'n' Oldfellas alright.


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    #11
    few
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭few


    LordChessington wrote: »
    But what is it about the R&M forum that people wouldn't be comfortable posting in there, but feel comfortable posting in Classic Rock? It's well moderated, everyone is friendly and there's a somewhat wide selection of music available... including classic rock

    I wouldn't say it's well moderated and friendly for everyone. Endless voting/award threads, bans for listening too much music, absolutely no respect for time on the pit threads etc etc etc, - not really welcome attitude imo.

    As for Classic Rock forum I found myself in unfamiliar territory there because I was never into rock, but I am glad that guys are happy sharing their opinions on their favourite music with like-minded people, I feel absolutely no shame that they preferred to create their own space to make themselves feel comfortable.
    And I wish them best of luck.


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    #12
    Schism
    Registered Users Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭Schism


    few wrote: »
    I wouldn't say it's well moderated

    I have to disagree with you here. The forum was previously moderated by Karl Hungus who did an excellent job and really ran a tight ship as it were.

    When he deactivated his account Malice was promoted and although he has a different style, he's quite friendly towards all posters (especially new ones) and keeps things just as tidy.

    Lord lucan was added as a mod not so long ago and I can only imagine it's for the same reasons Malice was promoted. He has the same friendly posting style.

    I really don't think that the moderation is an issue. I can think of some moderators on the site that are somewhat condescending or even a little bit autocratic in their forums, but it's not so in Rock & Metal.


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    #13
    Malice
    Registered Users Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Malice


    ScienceNerd wrote: »
    my point is it's silly to suggest the R&M forum is unfriendly towards rock.
    I agree with your post but sentient_6 didn't suggest that the Rock & Metal forum is unfriendly towards Rock.
    Schism wrote:
    Just an observation, not sure what it means. Maybe some people came into Rock & Metal, didn't see anything familiar and declined to post or add a thread of their own.
    That's a fair point but then it ends up like a vicious circle doesn't it? A poster perceives that the Rock & Metal forum is biased towards Metal and posts their thread somewhere else e.g. this Queen thread on the Music forum. Another poster comes along, sees Queen in Music and posts there rather than Rock & Metal. the end result is two posters lost.
    Schism wrote:
    I don't see any harm in having it if it doesn't take from the traffic going to the pre existing Rock & Metal forum
    It's naturally going to do exactly that though isn't it?
    LordChessington wrote: »
    But what is it about the R&M forum that people wouldn't be comfortable posting in there, but feel comfortable posting in Classic Rock?
    That's a key question which would be great to get answers to.
    old gregg wrote: »
    I can't say I find the R & M forum to be that inviting
    How come though? Do you have suggestions on how the Rock & Metal forum can be made more inviting? Feel free to PM me or lord lucan if you would prefer it to be kept private.


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    #14
    blastman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,449 ✭✭✭blastman


    I've already had a moan in the CR forum, as I just noticed it now, but I'm with Malice on this one. Personally I think this will just take traffic from an existing, well-modded forum. I've started threads in Rock & Metal on bands like Marillion and Jason & The Scorchers and found that there were actually other people out there who liked them too. Neither could be considered metal bands, but I didn't get attacked or ridiculed for mentioning them on a "metal" forum (unlike what happens when I mention them in real life, apparently the people I know have no taste in music!).

    Classic Rock is a magazine and should stay as such. It's certainly not a genre, IMO.


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    #15
    Cill94
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Cill94


    sentient_6 wrote: »
    The only thing id say about Rock & Metal, at the moment, in my opinion, is it's generally far more metal than it is rock. Whether thats stopping people from posting...i dunno.

    That would only confirm that they refuse to share the same space with people interested in heavier music. There was never anything to stop Classic Rock fans from making their own threads about the music that interests them and discussing it within the R&M forum. I don't see a lot of threads on black metal either but I'm not going to campaign for a new forum for it, I'd make my own thread to get a discussion going and if others aren't interested: tough. Even then, at least the black metal example has defined characteristics to separate it as a genre, unlike Classic Rock. So why it deserves its own forum escapes me.


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    #16
    Mr. CooL ICE
    Registered Users Posts: 17,501 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    Every time I have had a look in classic rock, I haven't seen a thread that would have been perfectly at home in R&M.

    Actually, one exception. I saw a thread that really should have gone in bands/musicians here. I reported it about 18 hours ago but its still there. Is classic rock immune to the standard cross-posting rule?
    few wrote:
    I wouldn't say it's well moderated and friendly for everyone. Endless voting/award threads, bans for listening too much music, absolutely no respect for time on the pit threads etc etc etc, - not really welcome attitude imo.
    I don't see how any of this makes it badly moderated or unfriendly. Voting/award threads are standard discussion material. Pit threads are usually left open for at least 2 weeks, which is more than enough time. I don't know what you mean by people being banned for listening to too much music?

    Have you ever brought up these concerns with any of the mods or helpdesk/feedback?


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    #17
    EchoO
    Closed Accounts Posts: 353 ✭✭EchoO


    blastman wrote: »

    Classic Rock is a magazine and should stay as such. It's certainly not a genre, IMO.

    It's not just a magazine, it's also a very well established radio format. That format was devised I'd imagine for the same reason the Classic Rock forum was i.e. there was an audience out there for it. It's all very well saying that there is nothing stopping anyone form starting classic rock-type threads in R&M thread, but for however many years that forum has existed that hasn't happened to any great extent.


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    #18
    blastman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,449 ✭✭✭blastman


    EchoO wrote: »
    It's not just a magazine, it's also a very well established radio format. That format was devised I'd imagine for the same reason the Classic Rock forum was i.e. there was an audience out there for it. It's all very well saying that there is nothing stopping anyone form starting classic rock-type threads in R&M thread, but for however many years that forum has existed that hasn't happened to any great extent.

    My point stands that it's not a musical genre, though i.e. it doesn't group one style of music under a heading the way "heavy metal" or "blues" does.


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    #19
    few
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭few


    blastman wrote: »
    My point stands that it's not a musical genre, though i.e. it doesn't group one style of music under a heading the way "heavy metal" or "blues" does.

    Is "Rock & Metal" musical genre?


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    #20
    few
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭few


    LordChessington wrote: »

    I don't see how any of this makes it badly moderated or unfriendly. Voting/award threads are standard discussion material. Pit threads are usually left open for at least 2 weeks, which is more than enough time. I don't know what you mean by people being banned for listening to too much music?

    Have you ever brought up these concerns with any of the mods or helpdesk/feedback?

    Yes, I have.
    I know this thread wasn't invented to discuss R/M moderation but I was only reacting on someones post above. I am sorry if it looked like I am rocking the boat.
    If you think that R/M forum is grand that's perfectly fine with me, but I see no point in trying to kill this new forum and judge people who are posting there.
    People created their own forum and just having fun there - there is no problem at all.
    That's what I think.


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    #21
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    LordChessington wrote: »
    But what is it about the R&M forum that people wouldn't be comfortable posting in there...?
    The smell of leather and stale cider.








    :pac:


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    #22
    Malice
    Registered Users Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Malice


    Apologies for going off-topic but I think this is worth responding to.
    few wrote: »
    I wouldn't say it's well moderated and friendly for everyone. Endless voting/award threads, bans for listening too much music, absolutely no respect for time on the pit threads etc etc etc, - not really welcome attitude imo.
    Very few people have complained about the voting and award threads. One person (possibly two, I can't remember) got a ban for moderator abuse after they were asked to stop posting consecutive videos in the Now Listening To thread. That's one person out of the few hundred that have used that thread. The In the Pit threads are informal and they depend on user responses to questions so there's no set time for each one to run. We can't and don't expect users to be online at specific times. It's not like the Album of the Week where the clue is in the name as to when each thread should appear. Sure people have questioned how long some threads stay open but I don't think there has been any outright complaints.

    The bottom line is that all of the above threads are there to provoke discussion. Without discussion a forum is dead.
    few wrote:
    Is "Rock & Metal" musical genre?
    It's two related genres isn't it?


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    #23
    blastman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,449 ✭✭✭blastman


    few wrote: »
    People created their own forum and just having fun there - there is no problem at all.
    That's what I think.

    That's part of the problem, though, IMO, as it appears this forum was created largely at the behest of one mod. It's not that there loads of people crying out for it. That's just my reading of it, though, maybe I'm wrong.


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    #24
    Cill94
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Cill94


    few wrote: »
    Is "Rock & Metal" musical genre?

    As Lemmy says: "It's all rock 'n roll". In my experience trying to establish a divide between the two only leads to confusion and arguments.
    few wrote: »
    People created their own forum and just having fun there - there is no problem at all.

    There are a few problems I can see:

    1. This opens the door to more sub forums of rock & metal being created
    2. It could diminish the already small numbers of posters in R&M (compared to other forums)
    3. Confusion over whether to post about bands like AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath etc. in the Classic Rock forum or in R&M

    I just think that there would be a stronger sense of community and better discussion if there was one forum for everything rock/metal related.


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    #25
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    I don't post in R&M I read it on occasion when looking for info but I don't post there,
    it just doesn't appeal but so far the Classic Rock forum does.

    As for what makes something classic rock instead of rock/metal it's a bit like the difference between art and porn, you know the difference when you hear it.


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    #26
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,203 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Sharrow wrote: »

    As for what makes something classic rock instead of rock/metal it's a bit like the difference between art and porn, you know the difference when you hear it.
    Classic rock is rock, there's no either/or. Even now there are identical threads about the upcoming Led Zeppelin cinema release.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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    #27
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    And?
    There are often threads about the same things in different forum were the discussion is different due to the different communities.


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    #28
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,203 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    In this case it looks like an unnecessary redundancy

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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    #29
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    Sharrow wrote: »
    As for what makes something classic rock instead of rock/metal it's a bit like the difference between art and porn, you know the difference when you hear it.
    What are the likes of Motley Crue then?
    Artistic Porn following your analogy. They are classic rock because its been nearly 30 years since their release, and also are to be found in the R&M forum.

    Its like giving bill gates a free million dollars. Its nice but totally unneeded and redundant.


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    #30
    mitosis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭mitosis


    blastman wrote: »
    I've already had a moan in the CR forum, as I just noticed it now, but I'm with Malice on this one. Personally I think this will just take traffic from an existing, well-modded forum. I've started threads in Rock & Metal on bands like Marillion and Jason & The Scorchers and found that there were actually other people out there who liked them too. Neither could be considered metal bands, but I didn't get attacked or ridiculed for mentioning them on a "metal" forum (unlike what happens when I mention them in real life, apparently the people I know have no taste in music!).

    Classic Rock is a magazine and should stay as such. It's certainly not a genre, IMO.

    Mayhap it will, but it also brings new voices to the fold - mine for one.


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    #31
    Mr. CooL ICE
    Registered Users Posts: 17,501 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    mitosis wrote: »
    Mayhap it will, but it also brings new voices to the fold - mine for one.

    If that's the case, why didn't you post in R&M before?


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