Football in Kilkenny whats the point?

lala88 · 29-02-2012 11:04pm #1

A Kilkenny football team took another hammering tonight. Cadbury Leinster U21FC FT: Louth 6-35 Kilkenny 0-2. The Cats had no substitutes after 11 of their panel failed to turn up tonight.

Now the useal ''theres no interest'' ''why dont other teams promote hurling'' for me is not good enough.

Why are county boards all over the country put under pressure to promote hurling yet this can constantly happen in Kilkenny?

Jimmy Iovine · 29-02-2012 11:30pm

Do Louth have an U-21 hurling team? If they were to meet then that scoreline would be easily beaten by Kilkenny.

From my experience there are some great players in the country primary schools. The problem is that most of those players are also good at hurling. Once they hit a certain age the choice is pretty easy as to which sport to pursue.

Some decent players in the city as well and again hurling takes over.

I couldn't really tell you who is to blame. The county board is probably top of the list though.

Hammer Archer · 29-02-2012 11:51pm

This topic comes up pretty much every year at this stage.
I think the main problem is that the gap between Kilkenny and the next worst teams (the likes of London, Leitrim etc.) is so astronomical that even if they do improve they'll still be beaten by 10 or 15 points every game.
Meanwhile in hurling, there are several teams who are equally poor so it is easy to have some sort of competitiveness at all levels in hurling.

JaMarcus Hustle · 29-02-2012 11:54pm

We scored 2 points? Sweet, love a good welcome home parade.

ballsymchugh · 29-02-2012 11:57pm

i've got some friends that played hurling for longford, and the effort they put in over the years was outstanding. they may have gotten nowhere, but they were a great bunch from u16 up through all the ranks to senior, and put everything into every minute they played and trained.
11 of the panel not showing up is just disgraceful. it's worse than club junior hurling in london where the selectors and managers sometimes fill in the gaps.

01-03-2012 2:04am

look i suppose im against their policy too and i do think they should try a bit harder if for just the sake of the poor lads that have to tog out, but there is other counties who dont promote hurling in fairness. Argument has really been done to death and i accept that things are the way they are and wont change in the near future.

aidan24326 · 01-03-2012 2:30am

Can people stop bringing up hurling? It's irrelevant in this context.

Look we all know that the likes of Wicklow and Louth and Tyrone will never be winning a hurling All-Ireland and maybe not even a Christy Ring Cup but at least these teams are competitive within their own sphere. They make some effort at their own lowly level.

Kilkenny football seems a futile excercise at this stage. I mean why bother entering a team at all if you're not going to put some bit of effort into it?

Last year their U-21s lost to Meath by 6-25 to 0-00. This year 6-35 to 0-02. I don't know why any lad would even want to play.

MrJoeSoap · 01-03-2012 2:30am

The main issue for people here isn't that Kilkenny are so shocking at football, but that they are so good at hurling and so bad at football. Cavan no longer field an intercounty hurling team (for the next couple of years anyway) but Kilkenny will always be picked out and laughed at for their awful results in football. If Kilkenny were an average or poor hurling county then people would approach it as 'how could they improve?' but instead the attitude is more 'how dare they?'.

Why not look at the bigger issues, like why would 20 or more counties lose by a similar or worse score line to Kilkenny in a hurling game?

MickySticks · 01-03-2012 2:33am

One lad from Louth scored 3-19

sgarvan · 01-03-2012 9:29am

Kilkenny field a football team at all levels so that the county board can avail of all available grants to them.

Pighead · 01-03-2012 11:07am

MickySticks wrote: »

One lad from Louth scored 3-19

Don't think so. Pretty sure Cathal Bellew top scored with 1-5. Scores were well spread with fourteen different scorers.

People being a bit harsh on Kilkenny. They came up against a juggernaut last night. Louth U21's are a force of nature that cannot be stopped. Peter Fitzpatrick should seriously consider ditching teh senior panel and replacing them with the U21's.

Jimmy Iovine · 01-03-2012 11:52am

aidan24326 wrote: »

Can people stop bringing up hurling? It's irrelevant in this context.

How is it? Kilkenny will be beaten by almost every other team in the country, we're not denying that. Fact remains that almost every other team in the country would be beaten by Kilkenny in hurling across all age groups.

Where is Kerry's hurling team? How are they getting on?

aidan24326 wrote: »

Look we all know that the likes of Wicklow and Louth and Tyrone will never be winning a hurling All-Ireland and maybe not even a Christy Ring Cup but at least these teams are competitive within their own sphere. They make some effort at their own lowly level.

Don't forget that Kilkenny has a smaller population than all three of them counties. Tyrone has double the population of Kilkenny. Again I ask how are they getting on at the hurling? Do they have a team?

aidan24326 wrote: »

Last year their U-21s lost to Meath by 6-25 to 0-00. This year 6-35 to 0-02. I don't know why any lad would even want to play.

I'll say it again, if Kilkenny played Meath or Louth in hurling you can be sure that the score would be the same in favour of Kilkenny.

ballsymchugh · 01-03-2012 12:05pm

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

I'll say it again, if Kilkenny played Meath or Louth in hurling you can be sure that the score would be the same in favour of Kilkenny.

maybe so, but you can be guaranteed that a full panel would show up.
whether they're good or not doesn't bug me, but the complete lack of commitment.
i said the same last year when cavan pulled out of senior hurling. surely there's 20 players that would like to represent their county at anything??

Pride Fighter · 01-03-2012 12:10pm

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Where is Kerry's hurling team? How are they getting on?

It is actually getting on quite well. Made huge strides in the past 10 years.

Jimmy Iovine · 01-03-2012 12:13pm

Pride Fighter wrote: »

It is actually getting on quite well. Made huge strides in the past 10 years.

Good to hear I suppose. My internet was down as I typed that post so I couldn't check.

TheMilkyPirate · 01-03-2012 12:17pm

Are they really that bad? 2 points over the course of 70 minutes. My own club senior team would score more than that.

Martin567 · 01-03-2012 12:18pm

aidan24326 wrote: »

Can people stop bringing up hurling? It's irrelevant in this context.

Look we all know that the likes of Wicklow and Louth and Tyrone will never be winning a hurling All-Ireland and maybe not even a Christy Ring Cup but at least these teams are competitive within their own sphere. They make some effort at their own lowly level.

I really feel like banging my head against a brick wall at the complete inanity of the above argument.

The reason the weak hurling teams are competitive at their own level is because there are at least 10 (probably more) teams which are at the comparative level as the Kilkenny footballers. It's easier to make an effort when there are a few teams they could actually hope to beat. If you forced any of these teams to play against Div 1 or Div 2 hurling teams, I doubt if they would continue to put in the same effort.

breffni666 · 01-03-2012 12:24pm

This is precisely why football needs to go down the hurling route. There is now Senior (McCarthy) Intermediate (Ring) Junior (Rackard) and Junior 2/B (Meagher) for hurling. Everyone knows their level and is expected to compete at that level. Its not perfect but its better than having the sh**e kicked out of you week after week with no benchmark to work towards. Here in Cavan we are sh**te at hurling and have pulled the senior side but maybe in 10 years we could COMPETE for a Meagher Cup. Football needs to do the same. Too many deluded counties who have no hope of Provincial honours in the next 20 years never mind All Ireland success. If the Hurling model was used for football then counties could measure their improvement in a Championship setting. Hard luck Kilkenny football, we feel your pain as we know when noone gives a sh**te. Its up to yourselves but a little help would go a long way. Should have been in a B competition in the first place but the suits like to say they played all the fixtures regardless of the scores.

Hammer Archer · 01-03-2012 12:40pm

Ha. This thread was created almost a year to the day the previous thread on Kilkenny football was created. Amazingly, the last one got nearly 300 posts.

bruschi · 01-03-2012 12:48pm

breffni666 wrote: »

This is precisely why football needs to go down the hurling route. There is now Senior (McCarthy) Intermediate (Ring) Junior (Rackard) and Junior 2/B (Meagher) for hurling. Everyone knows their level and is expected to compete at that level. Its not perfect but its better than having the sh**e kicked out of you week after week with no benchmark to work towards. Here in Cavan we are sh**te at hurling and have pulled the senior side but maybe in 10 years we could COMPETE for a Meagher Cup. Football needs to do the same. Too many deluded counties who have no hope of Provincial honours in the next 20 years never mind All Ireland success. If the Hurling model was used for football then counties could measure their improvement in a Championship setting. Hard luck Kilkenny football, we feel your pain as we know when noone gives a sh**te. Its up to yourselves but a little help would go a long way. Should have been in a B competition in the first place but the suits like to say they played all the fixtures regardless of the scores.

could you propose what teams should be in a 'B' championship in football.

Or anyone else for that matter.

lala88 · 01-03-2012 12:49pm

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

How is it? Kilkenny will be beaten by almost every other team in the country, we're not denying that. Fact remains that almost every other team in the country would be beaten by Kilkenny in hurling across all age groups.

Where is Kerry's hurling team? How are they getting on?

Don't forget that Kilkenny has a smaller population than all three of them counties. Tyrone has double the population of Kilkenny. Again I ask how are they getting on at the hurling? Do they have a team?

I'll say it again, if Kilkenny played Meath or Louth in hurling you can be sure that the score would be the same in favour of Kilkenny.

Kerry have been one of the most improved teams in the last 3/4 years. Tyrone are also doing quite well the last few years.

Kilkenny playing Meath or Louth in hurling has nothing to do with this

Mountainlad · 01-03-2012 12:50pm

To be fair, there are no other football teams at Kilkenny's level. They get anihilated by every team in Division 4 of the football league. The gulf between teams in Division 4 and teams in Division 1 in football is nowhere near as big as it is in hurling. It would be completely unfair and unmanageable to divide up the Football All-Ireland into different divisions. You see different teams every year competing stronger than others.

How would you base the division? Limerick are in Division 4 yet they compete strongly in the championship regularly. Wicklow have improved immesely in the championship in recent years. You might say ''fine we'll put them in the main competition'' but that could be viewed as being unfair by the other teams in Division 4 and in my view rightly so.

I do agree that their is rank hypocrasy though for some of the criticism Kilkenny footballers get, and I thinkit stems from the fact the hurlers are so glorified. People maybe get a bit annoyed that they are always hearing about their hurlers and so decide to say ''well they don't play any other sports''. True enough the focus is on hurling, but I think it's a lack of respect towards these footballers to be constantly having a go at them when some counties (Cavan for example) have altogether quit by pulling their team out of the hurling competitions last year.

It is up to them of course to stop this, as the only way it'll recede is if they improve and I guess there's just not enough people driving for it at the moment.

hardybuck · 01-03-2012 12:51pm

breffni666 wrote: »

This is precisely why football needs to go down the hurling route. There is now Senior (McCarthy) Intermediate (Ring) Junior (Rackard) and Junior 2/B (Meagher) for hurling. Everyone knows their level and is expected to compete at that level. Its not perfect but its better than having the sh**e kicked out of you week after week with no benchmark to work towards. Here in Cavan we are sh**te at hurling and have pulled the senior side but maybe in 10 years we could COMPETE for a Meagher Cup. Football needs to do the same. Too many deluded counties who have no hope of Provincial honours in the next 20 years never mind All Ireland success. If the Hurling model was used for football then counties could measure their improvement in a Championship setting. Hard luck Kilkenny football, we feel your pain as we know when noone gives a sh**te. Its up to yourselves but a little help would go a long way. Should have been in a B competition in the first place but the suits like to say they played all the fixtures regardless of the scores.

Disagree with the move towards a football version of the Rackard, Meagher. Look at teams who are in Division 4 of the League. Last year Roscommon were down there while still being Connacht champions. This year Limerick are down there - they got to the All Ireland quarter finals last year, and I'm sure Fermanagh will have ambitions to do well this year with Canavan coming in. I think the bulk of the Munster interpro team this year were from Div 4 counties.

Kilkenny have themselves to blame for this situation. The attitude to the sport in the county is awful, but again to rake up the hurling situation - you'll get a similar attidude in many strong football counties. I know huge amounts of footballers and football fans who have never attended a game of hurling even.

I think that the GAA should put a team of high profile semi retired coaches together and target not only Kilkenny, but other areas in that region. Despite very good strides made by Tipp, Waterford and Wexford, there are still large areas of those counties where football is treated with total contempt.

If you could get the likes of Sean Boylan, Mick O'Dwyer, Paidi O'Se, Joe Kernan, John O'Mahony etc. going in once a month to offer advice and raise the profile slightly, it would be hugely beneficial.

Martin567 · 01-03-2012 12:51pm

breffni666 wrote: »

This is precisely why football needs to go down the hurling route. There is now Senior (McCarthy) Intermediate (Ring) Junior (Rackard) and Junior 2/B (Meagher) for hurling. Everyone knows their level and is expected to compete at that level. Its not perfect but its better than having the sh**e kicked out of you week after week with no benchmark to work towards. Here in Cavan we are sh**te at hurling and have pulled the senior side but maybe in 10 years we could COMPETE for a Meagher Cup. Football needs to do the same. Too many deluded counties who have no hope of Provincial honours in the next 20 years never mind All Ireland success. If the Hurling model was used for football then counties could measure their improvement in a Championship setting. Hard luck Kilkenny football, we feel your pain as we know when noone gives a sh**te. Its up to yourselves but a little help would go a long way. Should have been in a B competition in the first place but the suits like to say they played all the fixtures regardless of the scores.

In theory this makes perfect sense but the problem still exists as to who would Kilkenny play against. The Tommy Murphy Cup was abandoned a few years ago due to lack of interest from the teams who never challenge for a provincial title.

Apart from Kilkenny, the gap between Div 1 & Div 4 in football does not compare with the same gap in hurling. This fact is continually ignored by those who spout irrelevant nonsense about the weaker hurling teams competing "at their own level".

lala88 · 01-03-2012 12:52pm

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

The main issue for people here isn't that Kilkenny are so shocking at football, but that they are so good at hurling and so bad at football. Cavan no longer field an intercounty hurling team (for the next couple of years anyway) but Kilkenny will always be picked out and laughed at for their awful results in football. If Kilkenny were an average or poor hurling county then people would approach it as 'how could they improve?' but instead the attitude is more 'how dare they?'.

Why not look at the bigger issues, like why would 20 or more counties lose by a similar or worse score line to Kilkenny in a hurling game?

If you ask me the fact they have had so much seccess at hurling means they can turn a blind eye to football and just say sure what can we do if people dont have the interest

Mountainlad · 01-03-2012 12:55pm

lala88 wrote: »

Kerry have been one of the most improved teams in the last 3/4 years. Tyrone are also doing quite well the last few years.

Kilkenny playing Meath or Louth in hurling has nothing to do with this

Comparatively, Tyrone are as far away from the Kilkenny hurlers as the Kilkenny footballers are from the Tyrone footballers.

To be fair to Kerry they are a young improving team with a few quality hurlers that could be playing on top tier county teams, but they still are a good way below anyone in Division 1B.

kksaints · 01-03-2012 1:11pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Disagree with the move towards a football version of the Rackard, Meagher. Look at teams who are in Division 4 of the League. Last year Roscommon were down there while still being Connacht champions. This year Limerick are down there - they got to the All Ireland quarter finals last year, and I'm sure Fermanagh will have ambitions to do well this year with Canavan coming in. I think the bulk of the Munster interpro team this year were from Div 4 counties.

Kilkenny have themselves to blame for this situation. The attitude to the sport in the county is awful, but again to rake up the hurling situation - you'll get a similar attidude in many strong football counties. I know huge amounts of footballers and football fans who have never attended a game of hurling even.

I think that the GAA should put a team of high profile semi retired coaches together and target not only Kilkenny, but other areas in that region. Despite very good strides made by Tipp, Waterford and Wexford, there are still large areas of those counties where football is created with total contempt.

If you could get the likes of Sean Boylan, Mick O'Dwyer, Paidi O'Se, Joe Kernan, John O'Mahony etc. going in once a month to offer advice and raise the profile slightly, it would be hugely beneficial.

Wexford have gotten to the Leinster Football final twice in the the last few years and are a better team then their Hurlers at this stage. Also isnt there areas of some Ulster countries where there is no Hurling Clubs. Remember hearing some thing about Down only having 3 or 4 hurling clubs at one stage. So Im not particularly sure what you are on about here. That problem exists in most counties.

Kilkenny's main problem is just the large amount of interest in hurling dominates everyother sport. Kilkenny used to have a LOI team gone now. Kilkenny also used to have a AIL rugby team also gone. There just isnt enough interest in football to keep a competitive team. While hopefully it changes soon I cant see it happening. Doubt bringing in external coaches would raise the profile enough either.

hardybuck · 01-03-2012 1:22pm

kksaints wrote: »

Wexford have gotten to the Leinster Football final twice in the the last few years and are a better team then their Hurlers at this stage. Also isnt there areas of some Ulster countries where there is no Hurling Clubs. Remember hearing some thing about Down only having 3 or 4 hurling clubs at one stage. So Im not particularly sure what you are on about here. That problem exists in most counties.

Kilkenny's main problem is just the large amount of interest in hurling dominates everyother sport. Kilkenny used to have a LOI team gone now. Kilkenny also used to have a AIL rugby team also gone. There just isnt enough interest in football to keep a competitive team. While hopefully it changes soon I cant see it happening. Doubt bringing in external coaches would raise the profile enough either.

Tipp just won a minor All Ireland in football and in many areas people wouldn't go across the road to watch a game, and when Wexford played in Leinster finals many parts of the county barely took notice. Thats what I'm going on about.

Kilkenny's LOI team went out of business. As with nearly every LOI club they were supported by a benefactor, and could not pay their way. I can remember Kilkenny RFC reaching a couple of play-offs to reach the AIL about 10 years ago, nothing more. This is irrevelant anyway.

While I admire the passion for hurling there, I hate how much disrespect they show football.

Martin567 · 01-03-2012 2:11pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Tipp just won a minor All Ireland in football and in many areas people wouldn't go across the road to watch a game, and when Wexford played in Leinster finals many parts of the county barely took notice. Thats what I'm going on about.

While I admire the passion for hurling there, I hate how much disrespect they show football.

Tipperary & Wexford do have parts of the county (however small) which are predominantly football areas. This is where the football teams are mainly drawn from.

Imagine trying to maintain competitive football teams in Tipp or Wexford from those parts of each county you referred to above. This is the situation which exists in Kilkenny as there is not a single parish in Co Kilkenny where football could be considered the number 1 sport.

bruschi · 01-03-2012 2:55pm

Martin567 wrote: »

Tipperary & Wexford do have parts of the county (however small) which are predominantly football areas. This is where the football teams are mainly drawn from.

Imagine trying to maintain competitive football teams in Tipp or Wexford from those parts of each county you referred to above. This is the situation which exists in Kilkenny as there is not a single parish in Co Kilkenny where football could be considered the number 1 sport.

There are only a couple of clubs in Wexford who concentrate only on football. but there would be more hurling only clubs, which is what I think the point was about. A lot of the county players, especially at underage, play both, and there is a divide simmering for a few years now in Wexford over dual players. Many of the county football team come from clubs who are holding their own at hurling, and a lot of them would be on their clubs first 15 too.

Just for arguments sake, of the 12 senior football clubs, there are 5 senior, 6 intermediate and 1 junior hurling teams

Of the 12 senior hurling clubs, there are 5 senior, 3 intermediate and 2 junior, with 2 not having any team at all in football.

hurling is still considered No1 in Wexford though, no matter what the results or what it may look like from outside.

aidan24326 · 01-03-2012 3:11pm

Martin567 wrote: »

I really feel like banging my head against a brick wall at the complete inanity of the above argument.

The reason the weak hurling teams are competitive at their own level is because there are at least 10 (probably more) teams which are at the comparative level as the Kilkenny footballers. It's easier to make an effort when there are a few teams they could actually hope to beat. If you forced any of these teams to play against Div 1 or Div 2 hurling teams, I doubt if they would continue to put in the same effort.

Bang away. There is nothing 'inane' about what I said. I merely said let's leave hurling out of it. This is about the Kilkenny footballers and why they continue to be so woefully bad.

This argument that Kilkenny would wallop Tyrone/Louth/Longford etc in hurling is a stupid and pointless one. We know KK would destroy those teams and it would be a total mismatch.

But Kilkenny footballer are routinely being annihilated by weak division 4 opposition. Even the likes of Leitrim and Carlow tend to beat them by 20 points or more. It's not exactly Kerry and Dublin they're up against. The issue is that they're so hopelessly out of their depth even at the lowly level they play in. Any decent club team would put up a more respectable show, which only proves that it's not taken seriously and no effort is put into it.

No-one expects Kilkenny footballers to be winning promotion or anything, but it surely wouldn't take too much effort to at least get to a level where they weren't being hammered off the pitch every week.

Football in Kilkenny whats the point?

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