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Why is sexism such a difficult topic?

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  • 15-02-2012 3:28pm
    #1
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭


    Following on from the male feminist thread, why is it so hard to discuss the topic in a clear reasonable manner?

    Just to be clear, if you wish to express an opinion here it must be done in a non confrontational manner. You will not be given the benefit of the doubt.

    Any use of "man hater, mansplaining, feminazi, and all other negative descriptions will see you thread banned.

    If you want to discuss the topic, you are most welcome. If you want to troll and flame. You will be banned. This is the only warning.


    Let's see how it goes.


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    #2
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    What happens in those threads is never discussion but open hostility based on preconceptions which are consistently unproven. FWIW, I won't be contributing to another one in AH for a good long time.


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    #3
    membersonly
    Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭membersonly


    It's difficult because everyone is sexist, it's human nature. There is no point in debating it on a message board, no conclusions will be reached, it'll just go around in circles, ever decreasing circles until people either get bored or the topic needs to be closed.


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    #4
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    because

    - i dont experience it so it cant exist
    - my problems are worse than yours
    - are you on the rag
    - i find it funny and thats what matters
    - so what if someone was sexist why didnt you magically make it stop it's all your fault
    - you obviously just hate the other gender


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    #5
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Millicent wrote: »
    What happens in those threads is never discussion but open hostility based on preconceptions which are consistently unproven. FWIW, I won't be contributing to another one in AH for a good long time.

    I can absolutely understand where you are coming from Millicent - after the psychobabble I was subjected to in the previous thread I felt the same.
    However, do we want to allow the critics to silence us?


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    #6
    pissblast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭pissblast


    Its inherit. Mens minds are unstable towards women. And women dont have male organs so cant really understand the pressures of been male. Lack of sex for a long enough period is like a a heroin addict with no heroin they just go mad.

    Sexism is mainly directed towards women however I think Ireland can be proud of our equalisation of making women equals in everyday life should they so choose. the positions in my job are gendure based ie 50% of posts must be filled by both sexes. such things like this have helped no end in giving women an equal standing.


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    #7
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    People like to argue.
    As this is the internet people can ramp up the arguing intensity without fear of the consequences you could get in real life - like get shouted at or punched. 90% of stuff people say here isn't actually their real opinion nor even something they care about, its just a point to argue about. Especially with a topic like sexism where they know exactly how to wind everyone up


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    #8
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I can absolutely understand where you are coming from Millicent - after the psychobabble I was subjected to in the previous thread I felt the same.
    However, do we want to allow the critics to silence us?

    This doesn't help much. I'd love to hear more from Millicent but the above is already starting to circle the wagons and what we don't really need here.


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    #9
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I can absolutely understand where you are coming from Millicent - after the psychobabble I was subjected to in the previous thread I felt the same.
    However, do we want to allow the critics to silence us?

    For the moment, yes, unfortunately. This isn't my first showdown in AH and other posters who used to engage in the threads with similar viewpoints have largely stopped. It's not worth the stress for a while.


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    #10
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Why is sexism such a difficult topic?
    Because there's a difference between sexism and women's/men's rights. People can fight for their rights all they want, and they're entitled to. But when sexism comes into it, it's a different ball game.


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    #11
    Shanotheslayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,191 ✭✭✭✭Shanotheslayer


    I think sexism is always going to be around. You're very rarely going to see women pay for the first date. It's usually the male, or it's a 50-50. Some people see it as being a gentleman. I personally wouldn't expect a women to pay for the first date,so I'm probably sexist in that manner. You're also very rarely going to see women working in construction. I Don't think either of those are going to change any time soon.

    Although, comments on 'women get back to the kitchen' 'make me a sandwich' are just fooking stupid.

    But the comment 'That time of the month' is sometimes correct. I know plenty of women who just completely change when it's that time and snap at every little thing. I'm not saying all women do it, but I know a lot that do.


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    #12
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    What's wrong with being sexy? :confused:


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    #13
    Mickey H
    Registered Users Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭Mickey H


    black francis wrote: »
    What's wrong with being sexy? :confused:

    Absolutely nothing!


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    #14
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    It's instinct and men agreeing with feminism goes against instinct. Men strong, women weak. We have testosterone sloshing through our bodies that cuts dead any fancy thinking about women. I do believe in equal rights for women btw, the above is not an excuse, but women do not understand men and think we're doing it to piss them off.

    My ex used to think I got erections deliberately. That's what men are up against.


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    #15
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    bluewolf wrote: »
    because

    - i dont experience it so it cant exist
    - my problems are worse than yours
    - are you on the rag
    - i find it funny and thats what matters
    - so what if someone was sexist why didnt you magically make it stop it's all your fault
    - you obviously just hate the other gender

    This post is spot on. Describes it down to the ground.


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    #16
    Corruptable
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭Corruptable


    This is AH, right? Go to Humanities or some other dark corner of Boards if you want to discuss such issues sensibly.


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    #17
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    It's not just sexism, it's any other ism that is difficult to discuss when there are people posting their personal experiences and viewpoints there always going to others who counteract it in whatever way they wish as it doesn't suit their preconceptions or agenda.

    The reason why sexism gets more heated is because people are not posting from an abstract stance, like racism for example. Any thread on racism, you will have people saying why they think X is wrong or racist, rather than a select group who actually experience it everyday.

    And in so, challenging people who actually experience it often leads to snide remarks etc. On both sides.

    Unfortunately if the rational posters kept cool heads and didn't rise to being challenged in such a fashion, but instead just replied to the posts worth replying to there wouldn't be such a mess.

    Although it is difficult when someone's words are manipulated, paraphrased wrongly and they defend themselves and then get called the playing the martyr / victim for doing so.

    My advice is do not rise to it. Being defensive will only go so far. Move on and reply to the posts worth replying to that make for decent discussion and report the strawman / flame / provocative derailing posts.


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    #18
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    People generally speaking strongly identify with their gender, any implication of a bad word said about their gender becomes a personal insult because gender becomes part of their ego.

    Add to that the fact the people don't seem to be willing to change their opinion so it becomes pointless really as neither party listens to the others arguments. A lot of people seem to think they are somehow a lesser person for being wrong so won't even entertain the idea that they are wrong.


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    #19
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Following on from the male feminist thread, why is it so hard to discuss the topic in a clear reasonable manner?

    We are all human and have different opinions, it's easy to get caught up in the heat of the debate.
    There will usually be a few who are more vocal than others and the argument just goes round in circles.
    If you don't agree with the majority then no one cares or values your opinion.


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    #20
    Shanotheslayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,191 ✭✭✭✭Shanotheslayer


    Confab wrote: »
    My ex used to think I got erections deliberately. That's what men are up against.

    I see why shes you're ex, I Lol'd reading that.


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    #21
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Corruptable wrote: »
    This is AH, right? Go to Humanities or some other dark corner of Boards if you want to discuss such issues sensibly.

    Why? Other social issues get discussed here all the time. Why should sexism be shunted off to some "corner" of Boards?


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    #22
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    Because sometimes people find it difficult to step back and look at the bigger picture.

    In this thread a poster asks would you propose to your OH, only 25% of women polled said that they would. That's 75% of women that would prefer if their boyfriend would, yet everyone wants equality. (I'm not for one moment suggesting there's anything wrong with women wanting the guy to propose either)


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    #23
    --Kaiser--
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    pissblast wrote: »
    . the positions in my job are gendure based ie 50% of posts must be filled by both sexes. such things like this have helped no end in giving women an equal standing.

    Gender quotas are inherently sexist, yet you claim it makes things more equal? Do you not see a cognitive dissonance here? This is the type of stuff that gives feminism a bad name and why it's thought to be discriminatory towards men


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    #24
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    Men as the power in the dynamic do not understand or see anything is wrong, they are understandably conservative because they hold the power. So anyone challenging that position is a man hater, because what other reason would they challenge the status quo.

    I wonder was it the same during the Civil Rights struggle in the US when the African Americans challenged the separate but equal legislation.


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    #25
    Super-Rush
    Registered Users Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭Super-Rush


    Corruptable wrote: »
    This is AH, right? Go to Humanities or some other dark corner of Boards if you want to discuss such issues sensibly.

    No, we'll discuss it here.


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    #26
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    This doesn't help much. I'd love to hear more from Millicent but the above is already starting to circle the wagons and what we don't really need here.

    That is not how it was intended. Millicent expressed the view that she saw no point in participating in this discussion as it would be just history repeating itself. To me that means those who, she felt, attacked her personally, would have succeeded in shutting her up. Encouraging someone like Millicent, who have proven herself to be both reasonable and fair, to continue to voice her opinion is not 'circling the wagons' - it is supporting a poster one admires to continue to speak her mind sure in the knowledge she will do so rationally and with respect for those who rationally debate with her.

    You assured us the flaming and name calling prevalent previous threads on related topics would be swiftly and decisively dealt with, if that is the case I see no reason for wagons to be placed in any formation whatsoever.


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    #27
    Bipolar Joe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    Corruptable wrote: »
    This is AH, right? Go to Humanities or some other dark corner of Boards if you want to discuss such issues sensibly.

    There's bits of Boards that aren't AH :confused::confused: ?

    Any who, it's mostly because of what Bluewolf said, and the inability / unwillingness to see things from a different viewpoint. You see that sh!t all the time from both sides of the fence. Both got it bad.


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    #28
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Corruptable wrote: »
    This is AH, right? Go to Humanities or some other dark corner of Boards if you want to discuss such issues sensibly.


    Yes, this is AH. It is more of a reflection on what you perceive AH to be as opposed to what AH actually is. We are a community, we should be adult enough to discuss any subject in a respectful and open environment.


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    #29
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    bluewolf wrote: »
    because

    - i dont experience it so it cant exist

    "I don't experience it so why should I care" is a probably a bit more accurate, if less socially acceptable.


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    #30
    Lady Chuckles
    Registered Users Posts: 9,279 ✭✭✭Lady Chuckles


    TheZohan wrote: »
    Because sometimes people find it difficult to step back and look at the bigger picture.

    In this thread a poster asks would you propose to your OH, only 25% of women polled said that they would. That's 75% of women that would prefer if their boyfriend would, yet everyone wants equality. (I'm not for one moment suggesting there's anything wrong with women wanting the guy to propose either)

    I'm sorry. How is that poll a bigger picture? And what is it a bigger picture of? :o
    Women prefers if their special someone proposed to them, that means women.... ?


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    #31
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,196 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Because in order to contribute to a debate thread you're obliged to take a side, even if you don't necessarily feel all that strongly about the subject.

    Because most people are essentially looking for a row, regardless of the subject matter.

    Because people tend to take offence when none is meant, mostly for the above reasons.

    Because people prefer to throw about pointless definitions, statistics, studies and jargon rather than say what they really mean in plain English.

    Because people are perfectly willing to discard everything they know about other posters, about men, about women, about life and about reality in the name of scoring points. Points that can't be traded for anything.

    Because you're either with us or against us.


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