Phoenix - Enemy at the Gate! (News & Star)

MoodRacer · 29-11-2011 11:52pm #1

Good piece in this weeks News & Star by Phoenix about how Waterford is being squeezed by surrounding counties because they have ministers and we dont. We`ll worth a read. Here`s a snippet:

`It now appears that only the favoured ministerial constituencies will be immune from cuts and cut backs`.

He refers to Howlin and the recent decision to situate the new VEC HQ in Wexford. He then goes on to voice his concerns as to the future of WRH.

Also that Army barracks were closing all around the country by Kilkenny (Big Phil`s constituency) is saved.

He claims that `This Government has embarked on a policy, whether ststed or not, of undermining our city. Our own political reps are just onlookers in a game of how to prevent the emergence of the regional capital that the south east needs`.

`It is utterly galling to read Ms Ciara Conway`s statement distancing herself and her party from the comments of the mayor of Naas, when she is utterly silent on what is happening to our city`.

`Come the next election, I forecast that Ms Conway and probably Mr Coffey of FG will not be returning to the Dáil`.

Strong words but unfortunately true imo.

Sully · 30-11-2011 12:16am

Booting out Paudie will hamper any chance of a minister in future. Its unlikely Deasy will ever be given such a position, which was his own making. Ciara is a newbie politically so will probably be waiting a long time before given such a position.

Our only other option would be to go for a Fianna Fail candidate, assuming they are elected in the next general as the government party. Assuming that, who would possibly have any chance of getting such a position when all experienced Fianna Fail TDs are retired?

Marchandire · 30-11-2011 12:17am

MoodRacer wrote: »

`Come the next election, I forecast that Ms Conway and probably Mr Coffey of FG will not be returning to the Dáil`.

I tend to agree, but what about Mr Deasy? If anything, he's more of an empty suit than Coffey or Conway, nor has he ever been particularly vocal as a Waterford representative.

I reckon John Halligan is the only decent representative we have at TD level. The rest need to seriously up their game.

Nypd · 30-11-2011 12:39am

Marchandire wrote: »

I reckon John Halligan is the only decent representative we have at TD level. The rest need to seriously up their game.

John has a great heart, but I fear as long as he stays independent he will never have the political clout needed to sway the government.

Marchandire · 30-11-2011 12:52am

Nypd wrote: »

John has a great heart, but I fear as long as he stays independent he will never have the political clout needed to sway the government.

Look at the Healy Raes - I'm no fan of the little monarchy that family is building down in Kerry, but they've proved what a bit of 'cute hoor' politicking can achieve for a county. No reason other non-affiliated TDs can't follow.

Nypd · 30-11-2011 3:06am

Marchandire wrote: »

Nypd wrote: »

John has a great heart, but I fear as long as he stays independent he will never have the political clout needed to sway the government.

Look at the Healy Raes - I'm no fan of the little monarchy that family is building down in Kerry, but they've proved what a bit of 'cute hoor' politicking can achieve for a county. No reason other non-affiliated TDs can't follow.

Healy Rae's had the previous government over a barrel, they needed his vote and he knew it.
Can't see Enda running to any of the independents anytime soon.

Silverado · 30-11-2011 9:04pm

Marchandire wrote: »

... but what about Mr Deasy? If anything, he's more of an empty suit than Coffey or Conway, nor has he ever been particularly vocal as a Waterford representative.

How much time does he really spend in his constituency? His wife (Maura Derrane) is on RTE afternoon television every day and I presume he is in the Dail. They don't have children so where does he really live. Outside of the sittings in the Dail where does he spend his time?

Chiparus · 01-12-2011 12:12am

In the last government , Waterford got a motorway with a toll bridge to nowhere.
Millions were spent on an airport we don't need and our most powerful politicians legacy was evoting machines, and leaving aircorp helicopters with one less door.

Smiley Burnett · 01-12-2011 7:17am

Silverado wrote: »

How much time does he really spend in his constituency? His wife (Maura Derrane) is on RTE afternoon television every day and I presume he is in the Dail. They don't have children so where does he really live. Outside of the sittings in the Dail where does he spend his time?

are you serious???? John Deasy lives in Dungarvan!!!!

Teebor15 · 01-12-2011 8:37am

Millions were spent on an airport we don't need

Elaborate on this please..when were millions spent?

wellboytoo · 01-12-2011 9:33am

Chiparus wrote: »

In the last government , Waterford got a motorway with a toll bridge to nowhere.
Millions were spent on an airport we don't need and our most powerful politicians legacy was evoting machines, and leaving aircorp helicopters with one less door.

You would want to take off your blinkers fella, whatever you think politically, the best thing ever happened to this City is the motorway and bridge and ring road, whether it is used to capacity or not is totally immaterial to me, we have it! It brings us into the reasonable commute range of Dublin ( which is Ireland) and makes us a potential player at last.
Cullen has his faults But he looked after Waterford completely whatever you think politically.

fricatus · 01-12-2011 10:44am

Chiparus wrote: »

In the last government , Waterford got a motorway with a toll bridge to nowhere.

You could also argue that Kilkenny and Carlow got a motorway, or indeed that Dublin got a motorway. Don't forget that Dublin is the main beneficiary of the motorway programme, as it's got high-quality links to all the main cities now. It would be nice if we had even a half-decent road to Cork or Limerick/Galway.

Chiparus wrote: »

Millions were spent on an airport we don't need...

LOL

I suppose you're technically right, in that it got a million odd per year in capital and operational grants, but when you look at the amount spent on othr airports (Cork is what, €500 million in debt, and loses €14 million a year?), Waterford doesn't seem too bad!

And who the hell says we don't need it? Another poster here some time ago referred to an investment that went to Cork rather than Waterford because of its superior air access. How much are we losing out by not having a better airport with more services? Ryanair have just announced services to Milan, Munich, Paris, etc. from Knock - basically flying into a bog! Kerry also has Ryanair services to Europe. What we need is a runway extension to handle B737s, and then just "spread the legs" for Michael O'Leary!

Chiparus wrote: »

...and our most powerful politicians legacy was evoting machines, and leaving aircorp helicopters with one less door.

OK, so you hate Cullen... good for you! I don't particularly like him either, but as they say, he might have been a cvnt, but he was our cvnt. Now we have Hogan and Howlin making decisions that are popular in their own constituencies, but which undermine our city. A bad position to be in!

fuzzy dunlop · 01-12-2011 2:55pm

I made a prediction before the election that Paudie Coffey would not be given a cabinet position and was proven right.The FG hacks here made claims that Coffey had a good chance of a ministry based on assurances (Lies in other words). Paudie Coffey or Ciara Conway will not be serious players in Irish politics in the next twenty five years.I would predict Gary Wyse would be another lightweight if FF ever recover ditto David Cullinane The best we can hope for with them is another Brian O'Shea. A junior ministry with very little acheivment. We need to get rid of these two lightweights to send the message out that to win seats in Waterford a high price has to be paid. We did this in the eighties and the result was Cullen who whether or not you love him or hate hime delivered something worth talking about. Before Cullen we spent a number of years with a soft seat that changed from FF to FG to the Workers Pary and then to the PD's (Cullen). He was then poached by FF which benefitted him but more importantly the constituency. We've no chance of pulling of soomething similar by voting Coffey and Conway. They got in because they were unknown quantities. This is not the case any more as they've proven themselves to be just empty suits and media whores.

wellboytoo · 01-12-2011 3:02pm

I agree with almost everything you say except, I believe they got in because they were the best of a bad lot! We do not have good people running for politics now and I can't say that I blame them, with one, the ridiculous scrutiny they are put under by the press(bastids) and then into a system that if you make the good but hard decisions you are cutting your own throat! Who in their right mind would take that job?

Max Powers · 01-12-2011 3:57pm

Chiparus wrote: »

In the last government , Waterford got a motorway with a toll bridge to nowhere.
Millions were spent on an airport we don't need and our most powerful politicians legacy was evoting machines, and leaving aircorp helicopters with one less door.

By reading that post, I get the feeling you are an angry young man. You need to start using the ould grey matter a bit more before you start posting rants.

The motorway is unviersally acclaimed fantastic,
The bypass and bridge is something we have been fighting for for about 30/40 years here, it may be under-used at the moment but we are in recession and examples such as the M50 in dublin were the exact same.
That airport is fantastic, London in 50 minutes, very important for business that wants to locate in the south east. Its a pity we missed the boat on getting funding for the runway extension. It is also an efficient airport receives no PSO funding from the government, the only one in the country that doesnt. Our lack of dependency on that maight be the saving of the place. The airport is a God-send for the many south east people who work in the UK and want to come home the odd weekend to see their relatives etc.

One point, the motorway does not give Waterford an advantage over virtually any county in Ireland as nearly all counties have excellent links to Dublin. The M9 alone passes thru Kildare, Kilkenny, Carlow

Silverado · 01-12-2011 5:25pm

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

are you serious???? John Deasy lives in Dungarvan!!!!

Oh yeah! We haven't seen him in East Waterford since the election.

wellboytoo · 01-12-2011 5:26pm

Max Powers wrote: »

[/LIST]One point, the motorway does not give Waterford an advantage over virtually any county in Ireland as nearly all counties have excellent links to Dublin. The M9 alone passes thru Kildare, Kilkenny, Carlow

My point was it takes away the disadvantage.

Sully · 01-12-2011 7:31pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

I made a prediction before the election that Paudie Coffey would not be given a cabinet position and was proven right.The FG hacks here made claims that Coffey had a good chance of a ministry based on assurances (Lies in other words).

It was never said by any of the canvass team that I met that Paudie was guaranteed a position. There were no assurances, but weighing it all up many people (not canvassers, but electorate) considered Paudie had a much better shot at it than anybody else. Waterford has a higher chance of getting a FG Ministry (probably Junior at the start) with Paudie and maybe with a new leader, John Deasy. There is nobody else that would come close to be given such a position in Waterford, unelected or elected.

John Deasy was our best bet and should be but that's well out the window now in my opinion but I would hazard a guess and say Smiley will disagree!!

Paudie Coffey or Ciara Conway will not be serious players in Irish politics in the next twenty five years.I would predict Gary Wyse would be another lightweight if FF ever recover ditto David Cullinane The best we can hope for with them is another Brian O'Shea. A junior ministry with very little acheivment. We need to get rid of these two lightweights to send the message out that to win seats in Waterford a high price has to be paid. We did this in the eighties and the result was Cullen who whether or not you love him or hate hime delivered something worth talking about. Before Cullen we spent a number of years with a soft seat that changed from FF to FG to the Workers Pary and then to the PD's (Cullen). He was then poached by FF which benefitted him but more importantly the constituency. We've no chance of pulling of soomething similar by voting Coffey and Conway. They got in because they were unknown quantities. This is not the case any more as they've proven themselves to be just empty suits and media whores.

I personally think only a candidate who is around long enough in Politics will be given a ministerial position. Waterford had people such as O'Shea and Cullen who are now retired leaving a new wave of politicians. Just because we are Waterford and a City does not mean we deserve a cabinet position, its just not how it works. So refusing to vote in a candidate unless they are set wont make a difference. "Leightweights" - what do you expect from backbenchers?! Welcome to the Irish political system. Unless your a Minister, your pretty much worthless. Just gotta use your time well, get as much speaking time, get your point across and get on committees.

Roanmore · 01-12-2011 8:48pm

Phoenix was a cheerleader for the last Government and he's giving out about the things Howlin and Hogan are doing for the counties they represent but was praising Cullen for doing the same things when it was Waterford.

Chiparus · 01-12-2011 9:07pm

fricatus wrote: »

You could also argue that Kilkenny and Carlow got a motorway, or indeed that Dublin got a motorway. Don't forget that Dublin is the main beneficiary of the motorway programme, as it's got high-quality links to all the main cities now. It would be nice if we had even a half-decent road to Cork or Limerick/Galway.

LOL

I suppose you're technically right, in that it got a million odd per year in capital and operational grants, but when you look at the amount spent on othr airports (Cork is what, €500 million in debt, and loses €14 million a year?), Waterford doesn't seem too bad!

And who the hell says we don't need it? Another poster here some time ago referred to an investment that went to Cork rather than Waterford because of its superior air access. How much are we losing out by not having a better airport with more services? Ryanair have just announced services to Milan, Munich, Paris, etc. from Knock - basically flying into a bog! Kerry also has Ryanair services to Europe. What we need is a runway extension to handle B737s, and then just "spread the legs" for Michael O'Leary!

OK, so you hate Cullen... good for you! I don't particularly like him either, but as they say, he might have been a cvnt, but he was our cvnt. Now we have Hogan and Howlin making decisions that are popular in their own constituencies, but which undermine our city. A bad position to be in!

I never said I hated Cullen, I certainly would not use the " C " word. The 2nd bridge going over the river is not used - Why: because it confers no advantage over the Rice bridge . It links the New ross road to the Cork road.

The local spat, the parochial battle between Waterford and its surrounding counties is just that. Why are you winging about Wexford having three ministers and Kilkenny one?

Why are you not glad that the South East now has 4 ministers.

If Kilkenny gets money for their hospital it does not mean that Waterford does not get money. The southeast gets the money!

If WRH gets money the south east benefits especially people in New Ross and Carrick!
People who live in Waterford will benefit from these projects just as much as Wexford South Tipp and Kilkenny.

So why are you upset if politicians are fighting to keep services in the south east??

Is it begrudery ?
or parish politics?
Or just small mindedness?

Well Boy??:D

wellboytoo · 01-12-2011 9:13pm

@ Chiparus You make a big silly ill thought out wrong statement, people pick you up on it and your comeback is to start a completely different argument! are you sure your not an elected representative?

wellboytoo · 01-12-2011 9:16pm

Roanmore wrote: »

Phoenix was a cheerleader for the last Government and he's giving out about the things Howlin and Hogan are doing for the counties they represent but was praising Cullen for doing the same things when it was Waterford.

Lol he would blow his top at that! a cheerleader for the FFrs, hardly, the whole raison d'etre of the column he writes is to be pro Waterford, gettit?

Chiparus · 01-12-2011 9:21pm

wellboytoo wrote: »

You would want to take off your blinkers fella, whatever you think politically, the best thing ever happened to this City is the motorway and bridge and ring road, whether it is used to capacity or not is totally immaterial to me, we have it! It brings us into the reasonable commute range of Dublin ( which is Ireland) and makes us a potential player at last.
Cullen has his faults But he looked after Waterford completely whatever you think politically.

reasonable commute range of Dublin -
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

wellboytoo · 01-12-2011 9:25pm

Chiparus wrote: »

reasonable commute range of Dublin -
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

This is meant to mean something to me?????????????

Finnbar01 · 01-12-2011 9:26pm

Nypd wrote: »

Healy Rae's had the previous government over a barrel, they needed his vote and he knew it.
Can't see Enda running to any of the independents anytime soon.

I'm not so sure about that, what with the current rate of labour TDs desserting the labour party, I give it a few months and Enda will come a crawling.

Chiparus · 01-12-2011 9:34pm

wellboytoo wrote: »

You make a big silly ill thought out wrong statement, people pick you up on it and your comeback is to start a completely different argument! are you sure your not an elected representative?

No I stand by the statement that the bridge is wrong, perhaps it is where the tolling is on it but hundreds of millions ( 255 mil) spent with little or no return.

The money would have been far better spent developing R+D in WIT.

wellboytoo · 01-12-2011 9:39pm

Chiparus wrote: »

No I stand by the statement that the bridge is wrong, perhaps it is where the tolling is on it but hundreds of millions ( 255 mil) spent with little or no return.

The money would have been far better spent developing R+D in WIT.

There are many things wrong about the project, like the price, the decision to toll at one end only , not two ends and the middle, which will probably happen quite soon, but building it was , is, and will always be good for this City and County and the southeast, this is certain.

Chiparus · 01-12-2011 9:40pm

wellboytoo wrote: »

This is meant to mean something to me?????????????

Yes but I will explain ........by saying that the motorway makes Dublin an easy commute you are implying that this makes getting to work in Dublin easier.

i.e. the job is in Dublin.

i.e Waterford is a Dublin Suburb.

If there is anything else to difficult to understand , please ask.:D:D:D:D

wellboytoo · 01-12-2011 9:45pm

Chiparus wrote: »

Yes but I will explain ........by saying that the motorway makes Dublin an easy commute you are implying that this makes getting to work in Dublin easier.

i.e. the job is in Dublin.

i.e Waterford is a Dublin Suburb.

If there is anything else to difficult to understand , please ask.:D:D:D:D

Mmmm we will pretend you misunderstood what I said, FDI 's don't like moving outside the capital, their arms have to be twisted, they at least want to be able to get there easily, in first world standards, not the bog road we had to bring them down for fifty years.
Comprende?

Chiparus · 01-12-2011 10:05pm

I agree the old n9 was a disgrace. But it seems to me that most people seem to think the M9 makes getting to work in Dublin easier.
I do not know if the FDI people rank motorway access to Dublin as a reason for investing in Waterford. They invested before the motorway was built they have not since ( although there has been some in Genzyme since it was sold but I dont know if the motorway was the clincher!)

My main truck was not against the motorway, although I would argue the coastal route would serve us better, but against the bridge that cost hundreds of millions.

Black Suir · 01-12-2011 11:34pm

Sully wrote: »

I personally think only a candidate who is around long enough in Politics will be given a ministerial position. Waterford had people such as O'Shea and Cullen who are now retired leaving a new wave of politicians. Just because we are Waterford and a City does not mean we deserve a cabinet position, its just not how it works. So refusing to vote in a candidate unless they are set wont make a difference. "Leightweights" - what do you expect from backbenchers?! Welcome to the Irish political system. Unless your a Minister, your pretty much worthless. Just gotta use your time well, get as much speaking time, get your point across and get on committees.

I agree, when it comes to places round the cabinet table its important that its the best people that are there, not where you are from.

Phoenix - Enemy at the Gate! (News & Star)

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