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Continuing Saga of 26E..........

  • 04-11-2011 08:08PM
    #1
    t c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭


    Well another wasted afternoon.

    I was really hoping that I could get 26E for its films etc, but it looks like I am running out of options.

    After seeing iba posts on 26e on this form, I installed a Triax 1.1m dish and followed his LNB mounting details as far as I could. This is not my first time to try and tune in 26e and I thought that "this is it".

    I connected a Technomate receiver directly to the prime LNB on the Triax holder, which has 4 LNB's, hopefully for 28, 26 (prime), 19 and 13E and by-passed the Diseqc switches.

    Instead of using a sat buzzer, which I know will buzz for any satellite signal, I used http://www.satellite-calculations.com/Satellite/lookangles.htm which said that at 9.33 this morning that the sun would be at the same azimuth as Badr4. So I took a photo and a good reference point as I did not have the time to set the dish then, but in the afternoon, set dish to required position with an angle of 26 degrees which was recommended on this site. No joy, nothing. Slowly, VERY slowly reduced angle of dish 1 degree at a time on scale,to 22.4ish as suggested in Dishpointer for my address, still no go.

    What next??? Changed plan. Got 28 on prime, then 19 and even 23.5, all great signals. Marked pole and moved dish slowly West of 28, but still no show of 26.

    Finally, as I am waiting on an Inverto Black Ultra, which I believe is the best, and the 28 LNB was a Sky one that is not the best match for a non Sky dish, I removed it, changed the prime LNB to the 28 position and left the prime position free for the Inverto. Re-aligned dish, and now have, on a Humax foxsat, 28.2 100/100% DiseqcA, Astra 19.2 90/100% Diseqc C, (Diseqc B is 26 and removed), but Astra 23.5, which I did not look for, is showing 100/100% when the "Diseqc Input" in the Satellite Setting menu is set to Disable?

    I tried to get 13E by sliding the LNB along the holder rail, but to no use. If worse comes to worse, I will re-fit my old dish for 13E only as I believe a Sky dish will do to receive it.

    As I said, running out of options. Will fit the Inverto when it arrives. If that doesn't work I plan to get a different LNB multi holder, one that each LNB mount is adjustable up, down, side to side and tilt back and forward. After that............

    Sorry for the long post, but as there is so much information out there, that I thought if I explained what I have done so far, someone might have input that I have overlooked. If anyone wants more info, please ask as I hate been beaten.

    Cheers.

    TC
    Edit.
    By the by, do you think it would be worth my while to get an installer in to set up 26 with a proper sat meter, and if so, do you know of anyone on south side of Dublin, Shankill, and what would you expect to pay? Can a meter be hired that will show the satellite it is locked on to? Would the meter be better than the Technomate tuning screen which I can see from roof?

    Thanks

    TC


«134

Comments

  • #2
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,905 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Both the sun approach and dishpointer are only ever rough guidelines.

    Get rid of the multibracket holder and diseqc switch, and try aligning the dish with a single LNBF at prime focus - there is no benefit in complicating matters initially.

    Then realign again to 28E (mark the azimuth on pole and elevation on dish), then to 23E (mark the azimuth and elevation) - you now know that 26E *must* lie between those markings.

    What frequency have you programmed into the Technomate? An analogue meter is still of some use and worth buying, as it's more responsive than the Technomate.



    BTW there is no need to continually start multiple threads on the same topic - it's generally better to post in the same thread, so that other readers can follow what's going on if they require the info at a future date.


  • #3
    t c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭t c


    Cheers Apogee. Point taken about posting on same thread.

    I did leave multi bracket on, but ran the Technomate directly to the prime LNB and NOT through a Diseqc. Did try as you suggested, ie, 28/23 mark and set in between. No go.

    Frequency tried was 11919H as it seems to be the one I MOST WANT, mbc channels.

    TC


  • #4
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,905 ✭✭✭Apogee


    I would still strongly advise to remove the multibracket completely and reattach the original LNBF holder - to my mind, the Triax multiholder is badly designed piece of garbage anyway, plus it prevents you for getting the LNBF fully prime.

    You shouldn't use 11919. One of the other posters already mentioned which is the strongest frequency on Badr - use that, and not 11919.

    You say you "set it in between"? That's no good - you can only use the markers as guidelines again. Set the dish azimuth to the 28E marker and slowly move west to the 23E marker, monitoring the Technomate output.

    What sort of skew have you on the LNBF?


  • #5
    t c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭t c


    When the Inverto arrives I will remove the multi holder and fit it in the original single mount and give it a go on the frequency suggested.

    I did modify the Triax multi so I could fit a holder on the holder bar above the dish arm, see pic, the second pic is not too clear as you cannot see the arm, only white conduit for the cables, which I have since removed. Also, never mind the positions and skew of LNB's as this pics were taken when the holder was fitted before any trials.

    As for skew. Well Dishpointer says a skew of -15.3 for Astra and -21.7 for 26, so I gave it a bit more than the best signal I could get for Astra, but di try farious positions.

    TC


  • #6
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,905 ✭✭✭Apogee


    15-20 degree skew should be enough. I wouldn't go any more.


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  • #7
    MrSneeg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 104 ✭✭MrSneeg


    there is absolutley nothing wrong with a triax multi lnb holder, try skewing the dish,


  • #8
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,905 ✭✭✭Apogee


    The angle on the Triax holder is designed with central Europe in mind - not Ireland - which is why people have to resort to flipping it upside down to get decent reception with it. Even then, the results are sub-optimal. It also requires messing about to get an LNBF in prime focus. It's an overpriced piece of garbage.


  • #9
    MrSneeg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 104 ✭✭MrSneeg


    Apogee wrote: »
    The angle on the Triax holder is designed with central Europe in mind - not Ireland - which is why people have to resort to flipping it upside down to get decent reception with it. Even then, the results are sub-optimal. It also requires messing about to get an LNBF in prime focus. It's an overpriced piece of garbage.


    skew the dish, just look at the way motorised dishes function,

    bad workman blames the tools...


  • #10
    Ronnie Raygun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Ronnie Raygun


    LNB skew isn't the issue with the multiblock, the problem is the elevation of the offset satellite positions & the limited adjustment available in this respect.


  • #11
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,905 ✭✭✭Apogee


    MrSneeg wrote: »
    bad workman blames the tools...

    The 'tool' in this case is unsuitable. The viewable arc over central Europe is not the same as that over Ireland, hence requiring a different angle for a multilnb setup. The Triax multiholder was not designed with Ireland in mind. 'Skewing the dish' will not solve this.


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  • #12
    t c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭t c


    what multi block holder would you recommend Apogee?

    As you know I want 13 to 28E, with 19 and 26 in between.

    I do find the Triax holder limiting in its adjustments, but it is what has been suggested for my needs.

    People say turn it upside down, Having looked at it the curve is horizontal with 2 grooves in it and the central hole is in a groove, the only advantage in turning it up side down is you get a better tilt. Unless I am missing something, that is all.

    I am waiting for a holder from Sat World, (2 weeks now), that each LNB is adjustable up, down, left, right and with a tilt towards and away from dish. It looks more capable to do what I want.

    TC


  • #13
    swoofer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭swoofer


    you need the extra tilt for 13east. did you try with the single lnb trick? getting a different lnb holder is a waste of your money. if you cant get 26east on a single lnb then a different holder wont make a jot of difference. wait for the black ultra and if that does not get it then its either signal interference or dish is not aiming properly.

    and apogee here are a few pics with the triax in action and 26east comes in crystal clear, thanks to iba.


  • #14
    t c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭t c


    Cheers GB.

    Have studied those photos and tried to do same.

    Am still waiting on Black Ultra so gave it a rest today.

    I do have 28 and 19 100% and also 23.5 on same transponder as 28, but does not seem to be a lot on there so ignored it.

    Tried 13, moved LNB as far right, (looking at dish) as I could and lowered bracket, but no luck yet.

    Will give all another go when LNB arrives. It does seem terribly sensitive and finicky, but we will see.

    TC


  • #15
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,768 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I don't know whether it would help but as a test you could try to get Eutelsat W6 at 21.6 East. This is the footprint.

    http://www.eutelsat.com/satellites/215e_w6_popd.html

    The strongest tp by far is 11544 H 2170 Yemen Today, 66% on my system which is stronger than MBC on 26.


  • #16
    swoofer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭swoofer


    one final observation becuase its a weak signal aiming the dish is critical, I had a look at a triax mount and the bit that holds dish to pole can be fitted on either side and if you look closely there is a lttle cut out like a < and this is what you use to get exact elevation. Have a look and see what side you have it on. It allows for more accuracy. Also put dish as high as possible first, this rules out any other imponderables. AND use a single lnb please!

    do a few pics of the dish mount and the elevation bit and make sure lnb arm is not bowed!


  • #17
    Ronnie Raygun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Ronnie Raygun


    Some tips on dish elevation setting here; http://www.satelliteforcaravans.co.uk/elevation.htm

    The pics of the fine adjustment device fitted to a Triax dish may be of interest.


  • #18
    swoofer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭swoofer


    thats a nice link but I wont be attempting to use the gadgets. the pic of the small triax dish shows the kink i was referring to for setting accurate elevation.

    i am going to try for 26east on a humax hdr this afternoon.

    gbc


  • #19
    t c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭t c


    Good luck GBC, will be interested to hear how you got on.

    I know about the > that you mention, it is only one one side as it depends which way you mount the pole mount. For my purpose, looking from back of dish, the > is on the left hand side as recommended in the Triax instructions for the angle of elevation I need. See attachment.

    I appreciate all the input from everyone, and, I will keep trying when the Inverto Ultra arrives.

    Also just to let people know, this is a review for the LNB's that I am using at present. But, as I said, waiting on a Inverto Black Ultra.
    http://www.tele-satellite.us/TELE-satellite-0611/eng/gtsat.pdf

    TC


  • #20
    swoofer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭swoofer


    thats the indicator, you can flip it over so it is on the side facing you for accuracy ie you can see the slightest movement when doing the elevation.


  • #21
    t c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭t c


    Yeah, but if you turn it over to the other side the bracket angle is different and you get the higher elevation.....

    Anyhows, how did you efforts on getting 12 go?

    TC


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  • #22
    pelisor2000
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭pelisor2000


    picture.php?albumid=249&pictureid=4981
    Triax dish it a very good dish ....
    BUT the the triax multi lnb holder is not the best for the combination between of 28e+26e..
    I do 26e weekly...


  • #23
    t c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭t c


    Black Ultra arrived today, impressive looking bit of kit. Hope it is as good as people make out. :rolleyes:

    If weather stays fine hope to give it a go during the week.

    I know, I know, one LNB on single holder., one cable directly to receiver, which will be a Technomate TM 5200D USB because it is the easiest to see and run a single cable to.

    I will get 28E 100/100 and work west slowly from there at various elevations from 22.4 to 26 degrees.

    I will take photos of elevation bracket and field of view (and hopefully screen shots....:D.) and will post as soon as I can.

    By the way thought some might be interesred in the following scans from the Triax Multi Holder instructions that come with it.

    If you look at bottom of first scan (never mind my scribblings....) you will see that it lists Dublin and elevation and distance between LNB's for the 3 popular satellites which you adjust as shown in second scan. So holder is not just for Europe as soom seem to suggest and also no mention of mount bar upside down!!!!!!!!!!
    Cheers

    TC.


  • #24
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    t c wrote: »
    If you look at bottom of first scan (never mind my scribblings....) you will see that it lists Dublin and elevation and distance between LNB's for the 3 popular satellites which you adjust as shown in second scan. So holder is not just for Europe as soom seem to suggest and also no mention of mount bar upside down!

    '+1' is the maximum possible tilt adjustment using the multiblock as Triax intend it, not necessarily optimal for our part of the world.

    Note that the max. tilt figure is given for all UK/Ireland locations; basically tilt as far as possible & hope for the best, while the German cities have a range of 0-(+1).

    People wouldn't bother flipping the bar over if the increased tilt available didn't offer an improvement on the furthest offset satellites (probably doesn't do the more central ones any favours).


  • #25
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    t c wrote: »
    As for skew. Well Dishpointer says a skew of -15.3 for Astra and -21.7 for 26, so I gave it a bit more than the best signal I could get for Astra, but di try farious positions.

    The Astra satellites at 19.2, 23.5 & 28.2 east don't seem to follow the general progression in skew adjustment as you move along the arc.

    See the progression from 26 through 28.2 to Eurobird 1 @28.5 as an example.


  • #26
    swoofer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭swoofer


    here are a few pics of 26east on a foxsat hd receiver, not the hdr version but same tuner I would say. note the meter readings on mbc.


  • #27
    t c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭t c


    Well tried again today.

    No joy with 26E, no matter what I do I cannot seem to get it. Mounted Black Ultra on Triax single holder with a single cable running directly to receiver. Set up 28 and 23.5 100/100 no problem. Marked them and adjusted dish slowly from one to the other, I did start at elevation of 26 degrees and worked down to recommended 22.4. no luck............

    One thing I will try, is that as Dishpointer suggests an elevation of 21.5 for Astra28 and I have found that best signal is at about 27.5 degrees, 6 degrees more, as indicated on dish scale. Therefore, as Dishpointer suggests an elevation of 22.4 for Badr26, I think I will increase that by 6 degrees to 28ish + and see if I have better luck.

    One good thing came out of to-days efforts, I finally got 13E, so I now have 3 out of 4. (plus 23.5 which is no good)

    Question? Even though I have got a great signal on 28 at the tuning screen, and most of the stations are of good quality, BBC, ITV etc etc 100%, some of the stations, particularly Channel 4HD, all of the CBS channels, movies for men+1, men & movies etc, only come at 45% or less, in fact, Channel 4HD is gone altogether, even though BBC HD's are perfect, why???????

    Skew???????

    As can be seen from pics, in pic Dish 4A, the trees are about 50M from dish and 26E is just to left of large tree in background, so, unless these, or the cables, are causing problems!!!!!!!!!! I tried to keep camera as level as possible and the photo was taken with a 35mm lens setting.

    TC


  • #28
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    Might seem like a really dumb question & I don't want to insult your intelligence, but are you 100% sure you've got a TD110 & not an 88?


  • #29
    t c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭t c


    Yes it is. I did measure it when I got it and as far as I can recall it is 95cm wide and 101cm high, (I think).

    It has got to the stage that I am about to give up on 26 as, perhaps, I have not got the patience or technically there is something wrong or I am missing.

    I will give it another try. I know that getting 4 satellites on one fixed dish is a compromise in signal strength, and maybe I am expecting too much. I would possibly try a motor but for the fact that other people watch different stations in the house.

    What about my poor reception on some stations Peter, any thoughts?

    If any one lives in the Shankill area of Dublin, you are welcome to give it a go..........


  • #30
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,768 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    You will get Channel 4 HD on the new Astra 1N here, very strong signal.

    http://www.lyngsat.com/astra1n.html

    Some of the tp's on 28 are a lot weaker than others e.g. 12523 H is only 67% on my system and I can get stronger than that on 26.


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  • #31
    t c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭t c


    I did have it up until I started messing to-day, with all the others, at great signal levels. It is only since I adjusted everything to get the 3 satellites this afternoon, in the rain, that things went ass about face........


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