Can someone please explain the differences between Labour and Sin Féin to me?

Chaotic_Forces · 25-02-2011 2:32pm #1

I've never had an interest in politics untill now. Obviously, I did some research and Votomatic suggest I'm pretty much dead even with Labour and Sinn Féin (the others are far too low for me to even consider voting for them). Unfortunetly, I like them both. I agree with a lot of their policies. But I really don't know what the difference is between them.

Can anyone give a quick run down?

outandabout · 25-02-2011 2:44pm

Guns and Roses (red) ?

Chaotic_Forces · 25-02-2011 2:46pm

outandabout wrote: »

Guns and Roses (red) ?

Pardon?

Dubol · 25-02-2011 2:47pm

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

I've never had an interest in politics untill now. Obviously, I did some research and Votomatic suggest I'm pretty much dead even with Labour and Sinn Féin (the others are far too low for me to even consider voting for them). Unfortunetly, I like them both. I agree with a lot of their policies. But I really don't know what the difference is between them.

Can anyone give a quick run down?

Labour are willing to go in government with a far right wing party so Labour voters may as well vote for FG.
Sinn Fein would not go into government with a far right party and would make a very good opposition party to stop what has happened in the last 4 years from happening again.

Paddyo · 25-02-2011 2:54pm

Dubol wrote: »

Labour are willing to go in government with a far right wing party so Labour voters may as well vote for FG.
Sinn Fein would not go into government with a far right party and would make a very good opposition party to stop what has happened in the last 4 years from happening again.

Obviously an unbiased opinion Dubol

c montgomery · 25-02-2011 3:00pm

Simple

For the past 30 odd years Sinn Fein have been the public representatives for the IRA throughout their bombing and murderous campaign.

For the past 30 odd years Labour have been the public representatives for working people and to a lesser extent the unionised public sector.

Not much of a choice IMO.

Kasabian · 25-02-2011 3:03pm

c montgomery wrote: »

Simple

For the past 30 odd years Sinn Fein have been the public representatives for the IRA throughout their bombing and murderous campaign.

For the past 30 odd years Labour have been the public representatives for working people and to a lesser extent the unionised public sector.

Not much of a choice IMO.

Which one proved more effective? :P

Chaotic_Forces · 25-02-2011 3:03pm

Alright, look, I wanted advice. Please don't go on about the whole debacle of SF being a bunch of murderers. Personally, I don't believe it and more importantly, I want to vote based on now, rather than years ago.

robd · 25-02-2011 3:07pm

The election in Dublin North Central is between Naoise O Muiri FG, Aodhan O Riordain LABOUR and Finian McGrath IND. Richard Bruton FG is a shoe in for the 1st seat. Those 3 will be fighting it out for 2nd and 3rd seat. The other candidates, including the Sinn Fein Candiate Helen McCormack hasn't a snowballs.

So really, provided you fill out at least 1,2 on your vote, your question doesn't matter too much.

Sinn Fein are much further left than Labour. They would like to tell the IMF to get lost, not have any pay cuts or redundancies in the civil service, and not reduce costs. Unfortunately the €20 billion deficit we're currently running has to come from somewhere. You literally can't have any of these scenarios, let alone all three. They'd prefer some kind of wealth tax, which really misses the point of taxation. You need to tax the larger population base a reasonable amount rather than try to tax a small bunch a huge amount. The small bunch (of wealthy people) would just run away to another country.

Labour would prefer tax increases over expenditure decreases. Finn Gael would prefer expenditure decrease (including redundancies) over tax increases. Given the two of them will likely be in government next week, this will likely rest somewhere in the middle.

Whoever gets in, it's going to be painful.

Dubol · 25-02-2011 3:09pm

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Alright, look, I wanted advice. Please don't go on about the whole debacle of SF being a bunch of murderers. Personally, I don't believe it and more importantly, I want to vote based on now, rather than years ago.

Well said. Gutter politics never won a vote. :pac:

Cavehill Red · 25-02-2011 3:11pm

SF are nominally trot and united Ireland republicans, but in practice in the north are tax-and-spenders happy to feather their own nests and look after their own tribe.
Labour are nominally left-centre, but in practice are the mouthpiece of the public sector unions.
The working public has voted right wing in every election in Irish history because there actually is no party to represent them.

c montgomery · 25-02-2011 3:19pm

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Alright, look, I wanted advice. Please don't go on about the whole debacle of SF being a bunch of murderers. Personally, I don't believe it and more importantly, I want to vote based on now, rather than years ago.

People who forget the past are condemned to repeat it!!

Do yourself a favour and read up on all the parties policies before you vote and then vote on who best represents you!

Chaotic_Forces · 25-02-2011 3:25pm

c montgomery wrote: »

People who forget the past are condemned to repeat it!!

Do yourself a favour and read up on all the parties policies before you vote and then vote on who best represents you!

I get that but the problem is I'm not 100% on what the heck things like "left wing" and all that palava means. That and like I said, I thought Labour would be good but after seeing and watching a few videos about your man Pearse Doherty giving his budget speech, he honestly seems like he'd be a good leader. I might not be getting this right but apparently Adams is gonna retire which would make Doherty what, exactly? I mean the election is to pick members of the Daíl, I get that. But what exactly will that do? If, say, SF wins the most votes, they'll have the biggest slice in the Daíl?

c montgomery · 25-02-2011 3:33pm

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

I get that but the problem is I'm not 100% on what the heck things like "left wing" and all that palava means. That and like I said, I thought Labour would be good but after seeing and watching a few videos about your man Pearse Doherty giving his budget speech, he honestly seems like he'd be a good leader. I might not be getting this right but apparently Adams is gonna retire which would make Doherty what, exactly? I mean the election is to pick members of the Daíl, I get that. But what exactly will that do? If, say, SF wins the most votes, they'll have the biggest slice in the Daíl?

Granted he speaks well but its the policies that are important not the delivery. You may agree with the policies and in that case vote for that party but if you only like the way he represents himself maybe you should look a little deeper.

IMO Michael Martin won both of the leaders debates and he represents and delivers his policies better than any other leader. I will not be voting FF however as even though he speaks well i dont believe a word of it!

For me its all about the policies!

LordSutch · 25-02-2011 3:36pm

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Alright, look, I wanted advice. Please don't go on about the whole debacle of SF being a bunch of murderers. Personally, I don't believe it and more importantly, I want to vote based on now, rather than years ago.

You would vote for SF, even though they openly justify what they were involved in?

Labour any day for me (over SF).

Permabear · 25-02-2011 3:37pm

This post has been deleted.

Chaotic_Forces · 25-02-2011 3:37pm

c montgomery wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Oh no, I just meant about how he was opposed to the welfare cuts and that he wants the cuts to be made from the richer people, like the 192 grand per year people.
If he's a good speaker he might get me to listen to him but if he says things I dislike, I won't vote for him.

Oh, I know youhave numbers 1-12 but do I actually have to fill in all 12 of them?

LordSutch wrote: »

You would vote for SF, even though they openly justify what they were involved in?

Labour any day for me (over SF).

Well yeah... I don't really understand. At the end of the day, it's really about who I think would be best in office and I honestly think so far, that SF would be.

Permabear wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Alright I'm very confused with the bit about Sinn Féin. I understand that we obviously don't have enough money but... aren't we actually pretty much screwed regardless of what happens, at least for a few years? Also, by let "the banks collapse" and "economic disintergration"... it's just essentially making things far worse than if we tried to extend the loan payment?

And thank you for the help so far.

The Brigadier · 25-02-2011 3:40pm

Dubol wrote: »

Labour are willing to go in government with a far right wing party so Labour voters may as well vote for FG.
Sinn Fein would not go into government with a far right party and would make a very good opposition party to stop what has happened in the last 4 years from happening again.

There are no far right parties in Ireland.

robd · 25-02-2011 3:45pm

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

I get that but the problem is I'm not 100% on what the heck things like "left wing" and all that palava means. That and like I said, I thought Labour would be good but after seeing and watching a few videos about your man Pearse Doherty giving his budget speech, he honestly seems like he'd be a good leader. I might not be getting this right but apparently Adams is gonna retire which would make Doherty what, exactly? I mean the election is to pick members of the Daíl, I get that. But what exactly will that do? If, say, SF wins the most votes, they'll have the biggest slice in the Daíl?

I thought I gave a reasonably good overview in my last post, without comment on murky past etc. Both parties have policy documents, fully readable in real time on their websites, where they outline their mandate. I even gave you the strategic view for Dublin North Central.

In regard to "Left Wing" and what it means. Come on. One your a little late in the day to be asking and two google it or look at wikipedia. I'll give you a link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_wing

Chaotic_Forces · 25-02-2011 3:48pm

robd wrote: »

I thought I gave a reasonably good overview in my last post, without comment on murky past etc. Both parties have policy documents, fully readable in real time on their websites, where they outline their mandate. I even gave you the strategic view for Dublin North Central.

In regard to "Left Wing" and what it means. Come on. One your a little late in the day to be asking and two google it or look at wikipedia. I'll give you a link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_wing

I am very embarrased, I didn't see your last post.

I think I have a clearer view and will more than likely go with SF.

outandabout · 25-02-2011 3:49pm

Pearse Doherty giving his budget speech, he honestly seems like he'd be a good leader
...

I presume you mean Doherty would make a good leader of Sinn Fein.

He talks the talk but can he walk the walk? If he wants to have credibility outside of Sinn Fein he'd need to convince the wider electorate that

a) Sinn Fein have severed all links with the armed wing of the republican movement

b) Sinn Fein does not include members who have been active in the armed wing of the republican movement in the past

That may take some time...

robd · 25-02-2011 3:51pm

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Oh no, I just meant about how he was opposed to the welfare cuts and that he wants the cuts to be made from the richer people, like the 192 grand per year people.

I thought I covered that one. There are scarcely any people earning that kind of money. If you tax them high they just move to another EU country. So it is complete rubbish as a policy. In regard to to welfare, we pay twice the rate as the UK and are paying twice the number of recipients due to economic collapse. Mathematically that just doesn't work.

Chaotic_Forces · 25-02-2011 3:51pm

outandabout wrote: »

Pearse Doherty giving his budget speech, he honestly seems like he'd be a good leader
...

I presume you mean Doherty would make a good leader of Sinn Fein.

He talks the talk but can he walk the walk? If he wants to have credibility outside of Sinn Fein he'd need to convince the wider electorate that

a) Sinn Fein have severed all links with the armed wing of the republican movement

b) Sinn Fein does not include members who have been active in the armed wing of the republican movement in the past

That may take some time...

Well in a round about way I suppose it was moreso I was impressed with the speech rather than the delivery.

Oh and do I actually need to vote from 1-12 or can I just pick the people I like best (say the best 6) and just go for those?

robd wrote: »

I thought I covered that one. There are scarcely any people earning that kind of money. If you tax them high they just move to another EU country. So it is complete rubbish as a policy. In regard to to welfare, we pay twice the rate as the UK and are paying twice the number of recipients due to economic collapse. Mathematically that just doesn't work.

True and I understand that. But in fairness, they seem to want to tax the rich instead of make the common person who can barely make ends meet worse off.

robd · 25-02-2011 3:54pm

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

I think I have a clearer view and will more than likely go with SF.

Sure just remember, they've no chance of a seat in Dublin North Central. So it's important where you place your No. 2. Please make it not FF.

Chaotic_Forces · 25-02-2011 3:56pm

robd wrote: »

Sure just remember, they've no chance of a seat in Dublin North Central. So it's important where you place your No. 2. Please make it not FF.

I'll never go with those. All I remember was biffo having the smugest look on his face as people would tear him a new one. Anyway, back to the numbers game. How does it work, exactly? I thought there were less than 12 candidates for Dublin North Central?

Respublica · 25-02-2011 3:59pm

Labour are willing to go in government with a far right wing party

I wish people wouldn't exaggerate. "Far right" means fascist or neo-Nazi. On the continent they would laugh at you if you described Fine Gael in this way.

danger man · 25-02-2011 4:10pm

c montgomery wrote: »

Simple

For the past 30 odd years Sinn Fein have been the public representatives for the IRA throughout their bombing and murderous campaign.

For the past 30 odd years Labour have been the public representatives for working people and to a lesser extent the unionised public sector.

Not much of a choice IMO.

youre like a news reel from the minister for british propaganda.

change the tune

25-02-2011 4:14pm

http://www.boards.ie/vote/
Have a trial run with this - it should have all the candidates and you can decide your second preferences.

You can fill out as many preferences as you want - just one vote or the whole sheet.

Permabear · 25-02-2011 4:16pm

This post has been deleted.

niallers1 · 25-02-2011 4:18pm

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

I've never had an interest in politics untill now. Obviously, I did some research and Votomatic suggest I'm pretty much dead even with Labour and Sinn Féin (the others are far too low for me to even consider voting for them). Unfortunetly, I like them both. I agree with a lot of their policies. But I really don't know what the difference is between them.

Can anyone give a quick run down?

Try this, This will probably give you a very different result from votomatic
http://votematch.tv3.ie/

c montgomery · 25-02-2011 4:19pm

danger man wrote: »

youre like a news reel from the minister for british propaganda.

change the tune

Truth hurts eh??:rolleyes:

Can someone please explain the differences between Labour and Sin Féin to me?

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