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Garden Moth Recording 2011

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  • 12-02-2011 11:14am
    #1
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭


    Anyone one interested in giving this a go?

    Garden Moth Scheme

    Suitable for beginners and ALL gardens. Some participants only have a balcony.

    This is an annual survey of moths in gardens covering Britain and Ireland.

    It requires running a moth trap overnight and recording most of contents the following morning once a week from March to Nov. Up to 9 weeks with no more than 3 in a row can be missed. This means that one can start near end of March having missed the first 3 weeks. So there is still time to get organised.

    Requirements, moth trap, guide book....enthusiasm and a willingness to learn :)

    The last 2 are easy and cost nothing :D

    The guide book is relatively straight froward, but will cost in the order of €30-€40
    Field Guide to the Moths of Great Britain and Ireland 2nd edition
    Waring , Townsend & Lewington. (link to publisher) about half way down.

    There is a concise version which has the same plates, but in my opinion, the full version is worth it for the extra meaningful info, but if the budget cannot stretch the concise version will do.

    Moth traps not near as straight forward and unless you go a DIY option, can cost a pretty penny cent and even then, its hard to do it under €50. The issue is electrics and out door environment.

    A moth trap is basically a light source and a retaining box/bucket etc. The box is often the DIY part and the light source is often sourced from specialist moth trap supplier. One of my traps uses fish tank electrics with the control unit in a plastic lunch box type container.

    See guide to Moth Trapping includes plans for building your own trap
    and Guide to Bulbs

    and see here for list of moth trap suppliers

    I'm hopeful that Littlebug and Half-cocked may be interested in joining the 15 or so currently participating in Ireland, but maybe there are others?

    One last thing is, that taking photos of the moths and uploading them to internet will be really helpful with regard identifying them.

    Any queries, just ask away....
    Tagged:


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    #2
    thebishop
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭thebishop


    How effective is the mothtrap in areas that have street lighting? I have a book "the moths of the british isles"by Richard South would I need something more up to date. Cheers.


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    #3
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    thebishop wrote: »
    How effective is the mothtrap in areas that have street lighting? I have a book "the moths of the british isles"by Richard South would I need something more up to date. Cheers.
    The influence of street lights may well be an aspect that the GMS dataset may be analysed for.
    Moth traps do work well even under street lighting, though probably stating the obvious that usually the habitat where street lighting is (ie Urban) is not so good. There is a bias towards rural gardens in the GMS and they would like to get more urban gardens/traps involved.
    "South" is certainly better then nothing though I've never looked through a copy. It was the moth bible for decades. What the Waring book has are excellent clarity of the Lewington drawings of the moths in their resting position as opposed to the drawings of set specimens in South. There are a huge number of websites with moth images that it is possible to manage without a guide book, but one would be relying on taking photos of each moth and then asking or searching for indentifications.


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    #4
    Ditch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Ditch


    Mothman; South is just about worse than useless. I have both volumes here. Sorry; Crap! We don't stick pins in moths any more. We don't see them as South shows them.

    WTL? Got that too. Changed my life! What a fantastic book!

    Made a Moth Trap. Worked fine. Still got the step by step photo's of how I put it together, if ye'd like me to show them? Dead easy.

    Then the old eyeballs went tits up. Couple of years ago. They all look like so many feathers to me, now :(

    What I want to convey though is that I only managed maybe four seasons myself. But what a fantastic time that was!

    Anything from perfect little replicas of the end of a Silver Birch twig, to a thumping great Poplar Hawk smashing against ye window?!

    Get amongst it, peeps! :D


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    #5
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    Ditch wrote: »
    Mothman; South is just about worse than useless. I have both volumes here. Sorry; Crap! We don't stick pins in moths any more. We don't see them as South shows them.
    I don't like to sound so harsh when that is all they have and perhaps haven't got a cent towards a new guide.
    WTL? Got that too. Changed my life! What a fantastic book!
    Yes, in comparison Waring Townsend and Lewington (WTL) is great and to be honest may well be the difference between making moth recording enjoyable and not, ie the frustration of not translating what is in the trap to an image in the book may be too much.
    Made a Moth Trap. Worked fine. Still got the step by step photo's of how I put it together, if ye'd like me to show them? Dead easy.
    That would be useful. Most of my traps are just boxes with a funnel in top. The trickier part is applying the light to the box/funnel.
    What I want to convey though is that I only managed maybe four seasons myself. But what a fantastic time that was!

    Anything from perfect little replicas of the end of a Silver Birch twig, to a thumping great Poplar Hawk smashing against ye window?!

    Get amongst it, peeps! :D
    Did you look through this thread ;)

    The vast bulk of these moths could turn up anywhere.


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    #6
    Ditch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Ditch


    Mothman wrote: »
    I don't like to sound so harsh when that is all they have and perhaps haven't got a cent towards a new guide.


    Had a think on that. My WTL book's no good to me any more. Can't see the pictures, or the moths clearly enough now to make proper ID's.

    Wondered, for a minute there, how I could get my book to someone who'd want it, but didn't have a cent.

    ;) Think I'll take it into town with me, next time I go. Drop it off at the library. Can't say fairer than that, can I?


    My moth trap shots? I'll dig them out and run them past ye in PM. If ye reckon they'll serve any purpose? Fine. Only, putting up pictures is a bit of a drama for me ~ dead slow connection ~ so I don't like to try it pointlessly.


    That other thread? Again, picture rich threads are wasted on me. Shots take for ever to unfurl. Often as not they just stick half way too, after ages of waiting :rolleyes:

    Got the idea though. Nice. I've got folders full of moths shots here too. Some gorgeous creatures out there.

    Sat in an empty pub one day. Chatting to the Landlord. He reached into an alcove to get something out and show me. Whack off big Winter Moth fluttered out!

    I went absolutely ballistic and started raving about it as I whipped out my camera ..... 412e026e.gif Reckon he thought I'd lost my mind! It was 'Just a moth', to him, of course. Uninitiated ;)


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    #7
    littlebug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭littlebug


    I've got to get my act together on this. I've put a request in to Charlie Byrnes (second hand) bookshop in Galway to see do they have a copy of the field guide but no repsonse yet. It's unlikely given that the 2nd edition is a fairly recent publication but no harm in asking.

    I'm going to buy in the electrics set. I'm thinking of actinic to reduce interference to neighbours but I believe this may also mean a smaller catch? Have you used both MM? What's your experience of either/ or?

    With regards to the box my plan is to go to the shed and mess around with saws and stuff, making enough noise so that Mrbug gets nervous and takes over :cool:
    Not really... I've been told to give him the plans and he shall deliver the box...


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    #8
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    littlebug wrote: »
    I've got to get my act together on this. I've put a request in to Charlie Byrnes (second hand) bookshop in Galway to see do they have a copy of the field guide but no repsonse yet. It's unlikely given that the 2nd edition is a fairly recent publication but no harm in asking.
    The first edition will suffice. The 2nd edtion has up to date Irish distribution and all the plates are together rather than separated into 5 sections spread through book. And each image has page number for text whereas 1st edition had a page range, which was really annoying. The distribution details is not really important, but for a beginner, having all the plates together and having specific page for text makes the book much easier to use.
    I'm going to buy in the electrics set. I'm thinking of actinic to reduce interference to neighbours but I believe this may also mean a smaller catch? Have you used both MM? What's your experience of either/ or?
    I'd advise the actinic. The MV does usually pull in more moths, but for a beginner, this is usually a bad thing! The MV is very bright and can cause issues with neighbours. Where the actinic does seem to relatively under perform is under moonlit nights.

    What actinic set are you looking at?

    BTW, actinic = fluorescent tube


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    #9
    littlebug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭littlebug


    Mothman wrote: »
    What actinic set are you looking at?

    BTW, actinic = fluorescent tube

    http://www.pwbelg.clara.net/mercury/electrics_sets_actinic/index.html

    I'm guessing the 40w actinic? But as I say I'm guessing :o... electrics aren't my thing! It's pricy enough when converted to euro.


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    #10
    mossie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭mossie


    Mothman wrote: »




    The guide book is relatively straight froward, but will cost in the order of €30-€40
    Field Guide to the Moths of Great Britain and Ireland 2nd edition
    Waring , Townsend & Lewington. (link to publisher) about half way down.


    The Book Depository have this for €30 and free delivery (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9780953139989/Field-Guide-to-the-Moths-of-Great-Britain-and-Ireland )


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    #11
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    And that is 2nd edition, published in 09 and has "Revised edition" in the orange ovel top right corner.

    I strongly advocate supporting ones local book shop....but money talks :)


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    #12
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    littlebug wrote: »
    http://www.pwbelg.clara.net/mercury/electrics_sets_actinic/index.html

    I'm guessing the 40w actinic? But as I say I'm guessing :o... electrics aren't my thing! It's pricy enough when converted to euro.
    That's quite a good lamp. One thing to bear in mind is replacement cost of lamps. Accidents do happen, especially with a dog ;)
    I haven't found this lamp online to see a replacement cost but I'll try get round to dropping into my electrics supplier and bring my 40w lamp


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    #13
    littlebug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭littlebug


    So how many of us are doing this?
    My electrics and book have arrived :) Weather permitting I'll do a trial run this weekend.

    MM I have a few questions. The first one is where to place the trap. My garden is fairly sparse at the minute. This will obviously change over the next few months but may have an impact on what comes to my moth trap (if anything:()just now . I was thinking of having it on a table at the back of the house so it would/ should be visible from over my back wall (lots of hedges and trees from about 10m from my house leading to a small wooded patch about 50m in that direction. But having it that close to the house (and house lights) means it's away from what little shrubbery I have at the minute. Having it back from the house and near shrubbery means it's tucked in behind a 6ft wall, blocked off from the direction most likely to have moths hiding away. What do you think?

    Secondly... there are a lot of moths in that book:eek:! So can you advise on any starting points bearing in mind the time of year and what's most likely to turn up?

    Thanks. LB.


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    #14
    Gardener3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭Gardener3


    Hi LB, so far there are sixteen of us in Ireland taking part in the GMS 2011 but there's still a bit of time for more to join up.
    Last year there were records sent in from 312 gardens in Britain and Ireland so it would be great to get some more Irish records into the database as moths are desperately under-recorded here - who knows what might be flying!

    If anyone else is interested or is just plain curious to find out what its all about I've re-posted MM's link to the Garden Moth Scheme website here: http://www.gardenmoths.org.uk/
    Contact details for Ireland can be found by clicking Communications > Ireland

    There are quite a few websites with 'Flying now' pages for each month or week, they are all UK sites so include species we don't get here but do help to narrow the possibilities down:
    http://back-garden-moths.co.uk/community/monthid2.php?flightID=February
    http://www.hantsmoths.org.uk/flying_tonight.php
    http://www.suffolkmothgroup.org.uk/flyingTonight.html
    http://sites.google.com/site/berksmoths/Home/flying

    The MothsIreland group is a good place to post photos that you'd like ID help or confirmation with, there is a link if you scroll down the homepage: http://www.mothsireland.com/
    Its the site to use to check the Irish distribution and flight time of species, (and find out if you might have a new county record!) and each species has links to
    UK Moths: http://ukmoths.org.uk/index.php
    Butterflies and Moths of Northern Ireland: http://www.habitas.org.uk/moths/
    Donegal moths: http://www.skylark.ie/donegalmoths/default.asp

    There's also a GardenMoths chatsite that anyone signing up for the GMS can join, its interesting seeing whats being recorded in other gardens and people to help with identifications.

    (Note to Mods: I hope I haven't posted too many links here, not sure what the policy is?)


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    #15
    thebishop
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭thebishop


    I got that book too,and got back the Bernard Skinner one I had lent to some one. Have ordered the electrics from Anglian supplies to make a trap...Wil see how it works out.


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    #16
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    thebishop wrote: »
    I got that book too,and got back the Bernard Skinner one I had lent to some one. Have ordered the electrics from Anglian supplies to make a trap...Wil see how it works out.
    Excellent,
    What part of the country?
    and what habitat is near you?


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    #17
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    Excellent summary Gardener. The what's flying now links are very useful.
    littlebug wrote: »
    MM I have a few questions. The first one is where to place the trap. My garden is fairly sparse at the minute. This will obviously change over the next few months but may have an impact on what comes to my moth trap (if anything:()just now . I was thinking of having it on a table at the back of the house so it would/ should be visible from over my back wall (lots of hedges and trees from about 10m from my house leading to a small wooded patch about 50m in that direction. But having it that close to the house (and house lights) means it's away from what little shrubbery I have at the minute. Having it back from the house and near shrubbery means it's tucked in behind a 6ft wall, blocked off from the direction most likely to have moths hiding away. What do you think?
    Any pictures....if you dare:pac:

    Shelter has quite a bearing on trap location. Also white walls are very good. A lot of houses are white and a trap placed at the wall can do really well. Plenty of moths alight on the wall...sometimes one wonders what the box is for with more moths on outside than in!
    The issue with moths on outside are the feathered friends which can quickly learn where a free breakfast is...an issue in high summer with very early dawns.
    littlebug wrote: »
    Secondly... there are a lot of moths in that book:eek:! So can you advise on any starting points bearing in mind the time of year and what's most likely to turn up?

    Ha ha, about 800 species in the book of which about 580 have been recorded in Ireland and with regular recording a year list in a garden above 150 species can be expected.
    Here is my species list for past few days

    1659 Yellow Horned (Achlya flavicornis) 5
    1663 March Moth (Alsophila aescularia) 80
    1746 Shoulder Stripe (Anticlea badiata) 2
    1760 Red-green Carpet (Chloroclysta siterata) 1
    1852 Brindled Pug (Eupithecia abbreviata) 1
    1862 Double-striped Pug (Gymnoscelis rufifasciata) 1
    1917 Early Thorn (Selenia dentaria) 4
    1926 Pale Brindled Beauty (Phigalia pilosaria) 46
    1930 Oak Beauty (Biston strataria) 16
    1934 Dotted Border (Agriopis marginaria) 48
    2187 Common Quaker (Orthosia cerasi) 165
    2188 Clouded Drab (Orthosia incerta) 136
    2189 Twin-spotted Quaker (Orthosia munda) 5
    2190 Hebrew Character (Orthosia gothica) 62
    2236 Pale Pinion (Lithophane hepatica) 1
    2237 Grey Shoulder-knot (Lithophane ornitopus) 2
    2241 Red Sword-grass (Xylena vetusta) 1
    2243 Early Grey (Xylocampa areola) 6
    2256 Satellite (Eupsilia transversa) 6
    2258 Chestnut (Conistra vaccinii) 47
    2423 Oak Nycteoline (Nycteola revayana) 1

    So the species with the higher numbers are most likely the species you'll see. The problem is the range of variation within a species. Have a look at page 252 to see Common Quaker, Clouded Drab and Hebrew Character. The book shows a small number of variations, yet itstill has 14 illustrations to depict the 3 species..then add in Powdered Quaker, Small Qauker and Twin-spotted Quaker which will also be in the mix before end of March!

    Also if you've no mature trees nearby, don't be surprised if the trap is empty until near late March :(

    You will make many mistakes, but you'll also learn really quickly and just when you think you have a species sussed, another variation will catch you out :D Its all a lot of fun :pac:

    Anyway. we're here to help, just take photos. Don't get caught up trying to identify small species but if you can take photos, they may be able to be identified and the record can be logged.

    Make sure there are egg trays in the trap...when I started I didn't know about egg trays:o


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    #18
    thebishop
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭thebishop


    Mothman wrote: »
    Excellent,
    What part of the country?
    and what habitat is near you?

    West Cork.Edge of town.Close to farmland and a small wood near by.mostly ash trees.


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    #19
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    thebishop wrote: »
    West Cork.Edge of town.Close to farmland and a small wood near by.mostly ash trees.
    Its great to hear of more moth recorders, particularly in the more western areas. It does seem that moth fauna in the less intensively farmed areas is better. This judging by records I receive from recorders further west.


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    #20
    thebishop
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭thebishop


    Had first moth of the year on the patio door last night. Early Thorn. Took me about an hour to I.D. it. Hope I never have a couple of dozen different ones in the one night. it would prob take me a week to I.D em all.


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    #21
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    thebishop wrote: »
    Had first moth of the year on the patio door last night. Early Thorn. Took me about an hour to I.D. it. Hope I never have a couple of dozen different ones in the one night. it would prob take me a week to I.D em all.
    Indeed, a very steep learning curve but a great time of year to start. It'll probably be months before you'll have couple dozen species and by then you'll have dramatically cut down on the time needed to work out each species. You'll have an idea what part of the book to go to first.

    Whan I started, it was late June...I struggled and I was overwhelmed but the online help available got me through.

    And another tip worth noting, an orange patch on top of head is not an identification feature but a worn patch....I used plenty of time looking through book for this orange patch :o

    and Early Thorn always rest butterfly like with wings usually fully closed.


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    #22
    littlebug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭littlebug


    Mothman wrote: »
    Any pictures....if you dare:pac:

    not a chance... the state the place is in at the minute :eek:
    thebishop wrote: »
    Hope I never have a couple of dozen different ones in the one night. it would prob take me a week to I.D em all.

    I'm thinking exactly the same, but also worried I'll get none :o though that would be easier!

    Meanwhile, the fridge is full of eggs :p


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    #23
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    littlebug wrote: »
    Meanwhile, the fridge is full of eggs :p
    :D
    If you can acquire some egg trays...the ones that hold 30 eggs and cut these down. The holes aren't as deep as the usual 6/12 egg boxes and the moths can be seen without having to extract them.

    Try restaurant/hotel and see if they'll hold some trays for you.


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    #24
    littlebug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭littlebug


    And we're off!

    I have a feeling it won't take me long to identify my catch tomorrow :o


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    #25
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    Appear to be coming to trap in droves...

    Seen Common Quaker
    March Moth
    Chestnut
    Clouded Drab
    Hebrew Character
    Pale Brindled Beauty


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    #26
    Gardener3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭Gardener3


    Clear skies and feeling frosty already - there aren't any droves down here!


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    #27
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    Cloudy 6C here
    Add
    Small Qauker
    Twin-spotted Quaker
    Early Thorn
    Oak Beauty
    to the list...


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    #28
    littlebug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭littlebug


    Still nothing.
    Does there come a time when I admit defeat for the night or will I leave it on all night regardless?
    I completely forgot about recording temps :o


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    #29
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    Leave it on all night. A bit of cloud may come and raise temps and its a long time to dawn.

    For anyone away from ideal habitat empty traps are frequent until April. So hang in there if you do draw a blank. Be sure to check on outside of trap within a couple metres...

    Don't worry about recording the temperature. It is far from compulsory. I also have a pm from Gardener to reply 2 on this matter.


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    #30
    Gardener3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭Gardener3


    Hi littlebug, for the GMS you leave the trap on all night, whether there are moths or not - and though its disappointing recording nothing it's still worth doing as it provides useful data.

    Sometimes even if the night starts out really cold a bit of cloud cover can raise the temperature just enough to get moths into the trap by morning.

    :) I've just checked outside and lo and behold, the sky has got cloudy and there is a March Moth at the light (ok so its not droves but good to see! :D)

    (Ooops, sorry for repeating Mothman's post)


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    #31
    thebishop
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭thebishop


    No life this side of the Country yet either.Temp still above freezing, theres hope yet.


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