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RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

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    #2462
    chputney
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭chputney


    The meter in the picture is a satlook Micro HD. The saorsat signal is DVB-S2 and the Satlook Micro cannot receive DVB-S2. You can use the spectrum analyzer function though, with a Universal LNB setting of 10765Mhz or an IF LNB setting 1015MHz you can find it.
    The way I do it, is to use a standard Ku LNB first and find a signal on 9E. I point the dish in a general direction and have the meter displaying the spectrum. When I see a peak, I tune it in, and the go to digital and see where I am. Then, move the dish the right direction. When you know you have 9E (Use Lyngsat or load a memory for 9E), then replace the LNB with the Ka LNB and look at 1015MHz. The signal will not lock on the Satlook Micro, but you can peak it.

    Charles


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    #2463
    ISAA
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭ISAA


    you could try this metre a new type from promax's, and looks very interesting, and only £3250+vat :eek:


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    #2464
    darth_maul
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭darth_maul


    What the hell way is that aerial in the pic mounted


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    #2465
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,568 ✭✭✭zg3409


    chputney wrote: »
    I decided to try a smaller dish than the 1m I was using for Saorsat reception and set up a 0.5m dish.

    The recommended dish is SOLID not perforated mesh type. At 20Ghz some of the signal will pass through the holes on the dish.

    Fibreglass dishes are not recommended either as normally they are mesh inside.

    But indeed some have got it to work, fine for playing around.


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    #2466
    satwyn
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭satwyn


    fibreglass dishes are often used for ka broadband i myself use 1 for rte here in north wales


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    #2467
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,568 ✭✭✭zg3409


    satwyn wrote: »
    fibreglass dishes are often used for ka broadband i myself use 1 for rte here in north wales

    I haven't seen any fibreglass dishes for tooway KA services. The service was initially launched with 75cm steel dish of fairly high quality. The installer manual mentions
    "Professional terminal 1m/1.2 m antenna under development (Aug 2011)" which may be what you refer to.

    As Watty has said in general unless the fibreglass dish is specially designed for KA use then it should be avoided. Indeed even RTENL mention KA specific dishes may give higher gain than dishes designed for 12Ghz.

    If you are using a tooway Fibreglass dish can you post some photos, or is it the older double reflector type?


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    #2468
    chputney
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭chputney


    zg3409 wrote: »
    If you are using a tooway Fibreglass dish can you post some photos, or is it the older double reflector type?

    I have 1m fibreglass dish installed and using Inverto Ka LNB. See picture in forum 24-5-2012


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    #2469
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,568 ✭✭✭zg3409


    chputney wrote: »
    I have 1m fibreglass dish installed and using Inverto Ka LNB. See picture in forum 24-5-2012

    But I think that is not a KA 20Ghz dish.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78855862&postcount=2449

    As already mentioned a solid dish, or a fibreglass dish designed for 20Ghz is best. I did ask someone to try compare performance of a normal fibreglass dish with the same size solid dish. A small solid dish may outperform a very large mesh based dish at 20Ghz. Tooway say a 75cm dish should be as hard to align as a 1.5M dish at 12Ghz, so even aligning a 1M dish for Saorsat will be difficult.


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    #2470
    satwyn
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭satwyn


    no problem here with andrews dish the lnb was mounted without feedhorn


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    #2471
    Oracle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,630 ✭✭✭Oracle


    Hi guys I'm not very up on the techy side on satellites .... are you saying RTE channels are available FTA on satellite but you need a special dish?


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    #2472
    warlikedave
    Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭warlikedave


    Oracle wrote: »
    Hi guys I'm not very up on the techy side on satellites .... are you saying RTE channels are available FTA on satellite but you need a special dish?

    They are encrypted on Astra 28.2e - all rte channels are available with a standard sky sub - this is on Astra 28.2e - you can have a sky hd box with a standard sub to receive rte2 hd as well.

    However you can get a dish or modify a current setup if the current dish suits to receive saorsat which is unencrypted aka FTA rte channels on sat and that is located on 9e and will need a Ka band lnb which differs from Ku and C band standard lnb used for Astra 28.2 east where sky's transponders are based

    Ye can also get saorview through an aerial with a set top box as well


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    #2473
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Or on suitable TV direct with Aerial.


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    #2474
    chputney
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭chputney


    I have done some scanning from 28.2E to 4.8E and 9.0E looks like the only circular Ka up there. I used a 1.2m dish and did some experiments to see how hard it might be to align the dish using a beeper. The beeper tone disappears with 1/2 degree movement in either direction so although it will be the only signal, it may be hard to line up. A smaller dish will be more tolerant.

    Here's a shot of the spectrum with the cursor at 10765V (really 20185L, but using Inverto LNB with LO 21.2GHz and displaying it as a Universal LNB so 21.2 - 20.185 + 9.75) on the RTENL signal. The other signals are broadband from Tooway not in DVB-S2.

    I agree with others in the forum that the most straighforward way of alignment would be to use a Ku LNB to find 9.0E and then replace the LNB. If all you have is a beeper, you might be in for some searching.

    kaspectrum10765v9e.png


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    #2475
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,568 ✭✭✭zg3409


    chputney wrote: »
    I have done some scanning from 28.2E to 4.8E and 9.0E looks like the only circular Ka up there.

    I bought a motor with the intention of doing such a test. I posted a thread in the foreign satellite section on this:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056539748

    I have not been able to do such a test yet. I think I noticed some carriers slightly more west of 9 East, but I am not sure of the exact position (13?). Watty mentioned elsewhere that tooway tested some of their equipment for 9 East on another satellite before 9 East KA was launched.

    I will be passing north Wales and london at the end of August. I intend testing Saorsat coverage on the way, and I intend doing some tests from North London to see if there is a jamming carrier on the French beam.

    Chputney have you seen any other carriers?

    Watty am I right in saying tooway were testing on 20Ghz from other European orbital positions?

    It would probably be best to discuss this on my thread above, rather than this one.


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    #2476
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭Apogee


    There are Ka-band transponders on one of the Hotbirds for original Tooway service.

    tooway-ka-band-frequency-plan.gif

    Spectrum grabs from 13E from April 2011.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71732830&postcount=1122


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    #2477
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,568 ✭✭✭zg3409


    TV3 will also not be available on Saorsat for technical reasons, although it will be available in all Saorview homes receiving their signal via an aerial.

    From:
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/32000-homes-must-fork-out-240-or-face-a-tv-blackout-3155620.html

    More mis-information for the public. Why not write an article explaining that TV3, who wants part of the TV licence money, refuses to pay a small amount to be carried on Saorsat. Shame them.


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    #2478
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Not only that, but how many of the 32,000 homes quoted as being unable to get Saorview currently receive RTE analogue services? And how many people could never get TV3?


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    #2479
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Not only that, but how many of the 32,000 homes quoted as being unable to get Saorview currently receive RTE analogue services?

    The vast majority, many from small relays and on serious aerials.

    And how many people could never get TV3?

    The same vast majority. :) However some relays are fed by Sky boxes and have TV3....and would continue to if the relays are not turned off on 24 oct. :)


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    #2480
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The vast majority, many from small relays and on serious aerials.




    The same vast majority. :) However some relays are fed by Sky boxes and have TV3....and would continue to if the relays are not turned off on 24 oct. :)

    Could they not get relays set up for Saorsat, Saorview and maybe even FreeView!


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    #2481
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Elmo wrote: »
    Could they not get relays set up for Saorsat, Saorview and maybe even FreeView!

    They are called 'self-help' schemes and are not part of the current plan, if the current scheme could be called a plan. The fallout that will occur on the 25th of October could see such a scheme proposed to placate angry voters with blank screens.

    Freeview would be illegal unless a licence is obtained from BAI and there is no current provision for such a licence, and the operator would need to pay the rights holders. Much easier if the homes get Freesat individually - no licence (beyond a TV licence) and no rights holder to pay off.


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    #2482
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    They are called 'self-help' schemes and are not part of the current plan, if the current scheme could be called a plan. The fallout that will occur on the 25th of October could see such a scheme proposed to placate angry voters with blank screens.

    Freeview would be illegal unless a licence is obtained from BAI and there is no current provision for such a licence, and the operator would need to pay the rights holders. Much easier if the homes get Freesat individually - no licence (beyond a TV licence) and no rights holder to pay off.

    Na I see a U turn on the horizon :)

    I meant FreeSat I am sure the same applies.


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    #2483
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    Elmo wrote: »
    Na I see a U turn on the horizon :)

    I meant FreeSat I am sure the same applies.
    What sort of U-turn?


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    #2484
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    byte wrote: »
    What sort of U-turn?

    Phil Hogan. :cool:

    X 31 December


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    #2485
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    It would now be cheaper to give them a Sky card than saorsat


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    #2486
    MarkK
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭MarkK


    5 years of Sky at €25 a month is €1,500


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    #2487
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Be more like €5 a month for the basic Irish ones.....times maybe 20k x telly nationwide. cheaper than saorsat @ €1.5m p/a and more so for end user


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    #2488
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    It would now be cheaper to give them a Sky card than saorsat

    No it wouldn't. Also RTE NL would still be using Ka-Sat as cheaper backup solution to feed sites. I suspect the 1.5M is poppycock and includes more than just carriage.

    Also even if Sky did a short term €5 a month deal (unlikely) it would soon be over €15.

    There is no pressure on Sky at all to offer a general (or special via RTE/RTENL) deal at less than €21 per month. Nor can anyone make them.


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    #2489
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Sky and UPC don't care about the 2% who can't receive Terrestrial TV, that audience are unlikely to ever want a pay TV subscription. You would wonder way Sky and UPC care weather they have retransmitters of FreeView or Saorview :rolleyes:


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    #2490
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Most of those without decent Analogue Terrestrial have MMDS or Sky already.


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    #2491
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,481 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The Cush wrote: »
    RTÉNL Saorsat FAQ v1.2 now available - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/RTÉNL-SAORSAT-FAQs-May-2012-Rev-1.2.pdf

    RTÉNL Saorsat FAQ rev 2.0 now available - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/RTÉNL-SAORSAT-FAQs-June-2012-Rev-2.0.pdf


This discussion has been closed.
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