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Who, on this forum, is in favour of a 32 county Republic?

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  • 22-02-2010 10:10pm
    #1
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭


    Lets keep it civil here.Just as a matter of interest, who here is in favour of a united Ireland?I'm talking long term(i.e in 20/25 years or more)not in the next year or so.

    I would describe myself as a republican but I despise the dissidents(criminals is a better word) as much as the next man.I also think a united Ireland should only come about with majority consent in NI.


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    #2
    Riddle101
    Registered Users Posts: 8,388 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    I would love to have a United Ireland, but I'd first like us to fix our own problems first before considering unity, I wouldn't want to rush into anything we're not prepared to accept. I'd also like to know if we can indeed support a United Ireland, for instance how much would it effect us as a whole and could it lead to worse things in the future.


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    #3
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    +1 to both of the above.

    It's not up to us to lay claim to another "territory" - and in fact, we voted to relinquish such a claim.

    I mean, I'd like if we owned Iraq and could have the oil reserves, but that's not my right either.


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    #4
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    Riddle101 wrote: »
    I would love to have a United Ireland, but I'd first like us to fix our own problems first before considering unity, I wouldn't want to rush into anything we're not prepared to accept. I'd also like to know if we can indeed support a United Ireland, for instance how much would it effect us as a whole and could it lead to worse things in the future.

    I assume from "worse things" you are referring to possible opposition from unionists...

    So, next question-if a united Ireland came about, would there be a lot of opposition from unionists and how militant would that opposition be?


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    #5
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    In our current state would they take us?


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    #6
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    syklops wrote: »
    In our current state would they take us?

    Read my first post.I said in 20/25 years or more.


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    #7
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    Read my first post.I said in 20/25 years or more.

    Your assuming things will be better in 20/25 years time? They werent terrific 20/25 years ago/


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    #8
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    syklops wrote: »
    Your assuming things will be better in 20/25 years time? They werent terrific 20/25 years ago/

    Yes, I am making that assumption.And you talk about things not being so good 20/25 years ago-for much of the 1990s and the 2000s they were more than "terrific" but you must have forgotten that...


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    #9
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Barring massive changes in the psyche of a large minority in the North, if we became one nation/NI was made independent from the UK, I'd be booking to earliest ticket out of here I could.


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    #10
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    amacachi wrote: »
    Barring massive changes in the psyche of a large minority in the North, if we became one nation/NI was made independent from the UK, I'd be booking to earliest ticket out of here I could.

    Why so?You think the unionists would cause too much trouble?


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    #11
    crazyhorse88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭crazyhorse88


    Hello everyone! I am a student from Poland writing about the Trobles in Ireland at the beginning of the 20th century (it's a part of my diploma project so it is extremely important). Sorry for the off topic but I have a question. Which counties were the most Pro - Treaty and why? I know that this is not a thread about the Civil War but I couldn't find a closer one. Please help me because there is plenty of data about the Anti - Treaty counties on the net but nothing really good when it comes to the Pro - Treaty side. THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP! If You want You can e-mail me: bartek_kozub@onet.eu


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    #12
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,201 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Of course I'm in favour of it.

    Ireland belongs to it's people, no matter their creed or colour.

    Having two administrations on such a small island makes no sense.

    A united Ireland won't be about the 06 being subsumed into the Republic, everything will be up for grabs... flags, anthems, joining the commonwealth(sic) etc...


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    #13
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    Of course I'm in favour of it.

    Ireland belongs to it's people, no matter their creed or colour.

    Having two administrations on such a small island makes no sense.

    A united Ireland won't be about the 06 being subsumed into the Republic, everything will be up for grabs... flags, anthems, joining the commonwealth(sic) etc...

    I have to say, given your username is Bobbysands81, I'm surprised you're even contemplating the commonwealth (That's an observation btw, not a criticism!).


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    #14
    leincar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭leincar


    Up to two years ago I would have said no as I have a deep mistrust of Republicans either here or the other version in the states.

    However, the Twenty Six counties is in a mess economically and politically and I wonder if we had a United Ireland, where the Unionist community would make up approximately 20% of the population and therefore 20% of the Dail maybe we would see a political change for the better.

    So for a different reason then the normal Republican agenda maybe a United Ireland might be a good idea.


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    #15
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    Yes, I am making that assumption.And you talk about things not being so good 20/25 years ago-for much of the 1990s and the 2000s they were more than "terrific" but you must have forgotten that...

    The 2000s were not 20 years ago. They were 1-9 years ago. 25 years ago it was 1985. Things were not terrific in 1985.

    I think this back-and-forth has gone on long enough. To answer your question I would absolutely be in favour of 32 counties. However I can't see it happening in our life time. By 'our' life time I am assuming your in roughly the same age group as me which is late twenties. So many lives have ended to get into the situation we are in now which is a power sharing government.

    I would like to see it, but I would not push for it, as I have to ask my self, "At what cost?".


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    #16
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    A pole would have been nice. I do caution you on the majority consent rule... This was agree by all concerened and when it actually looking like happening the posts where changed...again by the unionist parties..... They wanted a majority of unionist consent.


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    #17
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,171 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Actively against the notion.

    The north has been too dependent on an even more bloated public sector than we have for decades, there's more violent thugs on both sides of the fence than I'd care to have as countrymen and finally just because I couldn't stand to see all the armchair terrorists in the republic so happy.


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    #18
    Koloman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Koloman


    If I was living in Northern Ireland then I would have all the benefits of being in the UK like the NHS, cheaper prices, better governance etc...

    I would also be allowed to proclaim my Irishness under the Good Friday agreement so the question should be "Why would you want a United Ireland?"

    A unified island is probably out of the question for the next 50 years minimum, if ever.

    Maybe we should have a 32 county Northern Ireland? We'd be all better off and no amount of misty eyed dreams could deny that fact.


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    #19
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    crazyhorse88 wrote: »
    Hello everyone! I am a student from Poland writing about the Trobles in Ireland at the beginning of the 20th century (it's a part of my diploma project so it is extremely important). Sorry for the off topic but I have a question. Which counties were the most Pro - Treaty and why? I know that this is not a thread about the Civil War but I couldn't find a closer one. Please help me because there is plenty of data about the Anti - Treaty counties on the net but nothing really good when it comes to the Pro - Treaty side. THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP! If You want You can e-mail me: bartek_kozub@onet.eu

    Czesc,

    I would strongly suggest you create your own thread on this issue. I should point out that all you will get is discussion on the issue, not facts. Hardly, the basis on which to form a college project.

    For facts consult google, history textbooks, and dare I say it historical statistics. If you want peoples opinions, come here. Either way, dont hijack another persons thread.

    Dobranoc.


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    #20
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Actively against the notion.

    The north has been too dependent on an even more bloated public sector than we have for decades, there's more violent thugs on both sides of the fence than I'd care to have as countrymen and finally just because I couldn't stand to see all the armchair terrorists in the republic so happy.

    The public sector problem could be remedies, there's violent thugs everywhere and isn't "armchair terrorist" a bit of a contradiction?


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    #21
    kev9100
    Registered Users Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭kev9100


    Ina perfect world, I would a love a United Ireland. However, I think the risks in stirring up the same old problems that have plaged Ireland for centuries are just too great.


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    #22
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,171 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    The public sector problem could be remedies, there's violent thugs everywhere and isn't "armchair terrorist" a bit of a contradiction?
    We can't remedy our own public sector so let's not even consider taking on someone else's.

    We've too many violent scumbags of our own without taking in more from families that have been engaged in generations of blood feuds and criminality.

    And 'armchair terrorist' isn't exactly a new term - it's perfect description for the Wolfe Tones loving, Celtic Shirt wearing, Sinn Fein voting imbeciles that consider the murder of innocents acceptable and have absolutely no understanding of why the economic policies put forward by the party they vote for would leave them destitute.


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    #23
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    Sleepy wrote: »
    We can't remedy our own public sector so let's not even consider taking on someone else's.

    We've too many violent scumbags of our own without taking in more from families that have been engaged in generations of blood feuds and criminality.

    And 'armchair terrorist' isn't exactly a new term - it's perfect description for the Wolfe Tones loving, Celtic Shirt wearing, Sinn Fein voting imbeciles that consider the murder of innocents acceptable and have absolutely no understanding of why the economic policies put forward by the party they vote for would leave them destitute.

    Good to see you're not prone to stereotyping:rolleyes:.

    Anyway, we're getting there with out own Public Sector-the last budget was a step in the right direction.And anyway, I said in 20/25 years time.

    You talk about "taking in" more "scumbags"-what about the peaceful nationalists who want to be part of the Republic?And anyway, i don't think a fear of taking in what you deem to be scumbags a valid reason for opposing a 32 county republic.


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    #24
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    You talk about "taking in" more "scumbags"-what about the peaceful nationalists who want to be part of the Republic?And anyway, i don't think a fear of taking in what you deem to be scumbags a valid reason for opposing a 32 county republic.

    I didn't see anything in the post you're referring to that refutes the existence of both decent, peaceful nationalists and decent, peaceful unionists.

    But there's no denying that we would also be taking in the violent, self-interested, violent scum as well.

    Let's put it this way.....if you were thinking of adopting a family, would you think twice if one or two of them were violent criminal thugs ?


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    #25
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    Why so?You think the unionists would cause too much trouble?

    Yes. It would be an absolute disaster.


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    #26
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    I didn't see anything in the post you're referring to that refutes the existence of both decent, peaceful nationalists and decent, peaceful unionists.

    But there's no denying that we would also be taking in the violent, self-interested, violent scum as well.

    Let's put it this way.....if you were thinking of adopting a family, would you think twice if one or two of them were violent criminal thugs ?

    I know the post doesn't refute it but the post only seems to deal with "scumbags" if there was an integration of NI-that's why I'm asking about what his views on peaceful nationalists are.

    As for the adoption question-well if there was 10 normal people in the family for every one thug then I probably would take them in-especially if i had historical bonds of kinship.And if there was already a few thugs in my own family it wouldn't really matter to me.


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    #27
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    And if they're was already a few thugs in my own family it wouldn't really matter to me.

    I can see and appreciate what you're getting at, but if your resources and time were already being taken up trying to stop those from - shall we say (for the sake of the analogy) - "misbehaving", then it might be a step too far.

    Particularly if some of those were likely to misbehave even more because they liked their existing family and didn't want to be adopted.


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    #28
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    To quote someone or other when asked about German unification - "I like Germany so much, I'm glad there are two of them" If it happens it'll be cos a strong majority on both sides of the border want it and that won't be today or tomorrow. Right now NI means a cheap day out for the ROIs hard pressed shoppers so keep it has it is.


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    #29
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    I can see and appreciate what you're getting at, but if your resources and time were already being taken up trying to stop those from - shall we say (for the sake of the analogy) - "misbehaving", then it might be a step too far.

    Particularly if some of those were likely to misbehave even more because they liked their existing family and didn't want to be adopted.

    Ok, we have to stop this analogy!:P

    Anyway, I suppose you're right and it would depend on how hostile the unionists are to be integrated before we can have a 32 county republic.That said, I think in a fair world, it should be up to the majority in NI, not what would be the vocal minority.


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    #30
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    Why would anyone in ROI want a united Ireland? Germany is still suffering financially from reuniting east and west Germany. The old West Germany would have been much more prosperous today if they did not reunite with East Germany.

    Northern Ireland would just be a financial burden which the ROI cannot afford.


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    #31
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    crazyhorse88 wrote: »
    Hello everyone! I am a student from Poland writing about the Trobles in Ireland at the beginning of the 20th century (it's a part of my diploma project so it is extremely important). Sorry for the off topic but I have a question. Which counties were the most Pro - Treaty and why? I know that this is not a thread about the Civil War but I couldn't find a closer one. Please help me because there is plenty of data about the Anti - Treaty counties on the net but nothing really good when it comes to the Pro - Treaty side. THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP! If You want You can e-mail me: bartek_kozub@onet.eu
    Here's a list of which TDs voted yes/no: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Irish_Treaty_D%C3%A1il_vote


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