The SirToYou "dignified discussion" with anything to do with Macau

Moro Man · 10-08-2009 1:17pm #1

Sirtoyou wrote: »

I would also have no problem with a dignified discussion with anything to do with Macau and I have often been highly critical of them myself.What I object to is the underhand and snide shiite that is employed by the likes of Dave147 and others in all Macau threads.If you or anyone else has something to say grow a pair and say it without the angleshoot tactics.

Not wishing to be accused of derailing threads I've opened this one in response to Sirtoyou comments in the Macau ME thread. The title is a direct quote so I think it could be extended to include Cork poker in general.

Just one point for future reference Kieran, it is deemed bad netiquette to use someone's name and personal info online unless they ok it ( and this has nothing to do with you using my name it's about a poster who you referred to by name and made hints about his personal life so people would be able to figure out who he was and that could have had repercussions for him - and don't make it worse for him by arguing the fact here or getting me to spell it out )

I don't expect any official responses from the cardrooms / casinos that may be mentioned but I will draw you to this statement so feel free to make direct queries

KevIRL wrote: »

Its the price of having free advertising on Boards for tournament promoters as the forum rules state

So to start the ball rolling SirtoYou ( good netiquette :rolleyes: ) what is your position on this

An "incident" arose last week where a member ( and don't be using his name ffs ) of the Macau Sporting club was denied entry into their Cash League final ( for which he had qualified ) because he supplys a catering service to a rival establishment namely the Rebel Card Club aka The Bank Casino.

The reason given was that under UK Gaming legislation casino employees are not allowed on the premises of any other Licensed Gaming Establishments and in effect the Macau's Managements hands were tied and they couldn't even if they wanted to leave him play.

You state that people are "angleshooting" against the Macau

This looks to me like the mother of all angle shoots

1. Since when did we rejoin the UK.

2. He's not an employee of the Bank Casino.

3. That UK legislation refers to licensed employees ( croupiers ).

Sirtoyou wrote: »

If you or anyone else has something to say grow a pair and say it without the angleshoot tactics.

.

By this logic the Macau should have said.

"**** off you're supplying a service to our competitors and as long as you do we won't leave you into our establishment"

Of course it's well within their rights to refuse admission to whom ever they feel.....

But if it comes down to a case of right or wrong. I think most right minded people would agree that he was wronged.

Before you start attacking me I will admit I'm not a Macau Regular ( I'm probably still barred ) etc etc... but this has nothing to do with me on a personal level. The person involved and his friend who defended him I know but I certainly wouldn't be on their Christmas card list.

So as they say in the states.... "Right to the best possible defence" so defend away SirToYou

lee_arama · 10-08-2009 2:02pm

This looks to me like the mother of all angle shoots

1. Since when did we rejoin the UK.

Staying out of this one but ...

Irish casinos follow UK protocol in the absence of any irish legislation.

gorfield · 10-08-2009 2:38pm

lee_arama wrote: »

This looks to me like the mother of all angle shoots

1. Since when did we rejoin the UK.

Staying out of this one but ...

Irish casinos follow UK protocol in the absence of any irish legislation.

You took the words out of my mouth lee.

latenia · 10-08-2009 2:53pm

lee_arama wrote: »

Staying out of this one but ...

Irish casinos follow UK protocol in the absence of any irish legislation.

Absolutely correct. I've never seen a croupier or owner playing poker in an Irish casino or accept tips at a gaming table and we always (until recently) had to wait 24 hours to gain membership.

Jayminator · 10-08-2009 3:08pm

Something in the water in Cork I reckon. Why every time I read a Macau related thread is there some sort of entangled bitterness or gripe going on. Makes me want to never visit the place tbh.........

However if this guy is an employee of another casino then they are just enforcing the law but I am not sure if this law relates to ''catering'' employees.

All a bit of the gheyness if ya ask me.

Moro Man · 10-08-2009 3:09pm

lee_arama wrote: »

This looks to me like the mother of all angle shoots

1. Since when did we rejoin the UK.

Staying out of this one but ...

Irish casinos follow UK protocol in the absence of any irish legislation.

The attitude that makes Ireland great.

I see something but because it doesn't affect me directly so I'll stay out of it.

Since when did Irish Casinos follow UK protocol?

They certainly didn't before the gaming laws were relaxed recently (12 to 18 months ago but open to correction ) and they had the 24 hour cooling off period after joining before you could enter a casino rule.

mdiver · 10-08-2009 3:21pm

For them to quote a UK law to a punter is bizarre. Having them get the law completely wrong and trying to implement it in Ireland is just beyond stupidity. This particular law got changed a few years back now in the UK and the only casino that a croupier cannot punt is his own, however the group that he works for might ban him from playing in a sister casino. This just shows how petty the Macau really are.

Headspace · 10-08-2009 3:53pm

I saw a dealer from the macau playing in the bank. I thought the bank had closed down anyway?

the_pits · 10-08-2009 3:57pm

mdiver wrote: »

For them to quote a UK law to a punter is bizarre. Having them get the law completely wrong and trying to implement it in Ireland is just beyond stupidity. This particular law got changed a few years back now in the UK and the only casino that a croupier cannot punt is his own, however the group that he works for might ban him from playing in a sister casino. This just shows how petty the Macau really are.

Totally agree, maybe they should start reading up on this http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2005/en/ukpgaen_20050019_en_1.htm

and just wondering how many of their dealers have licence

corkie123 · 10-08-2009 4:06pm

the_pits wrote: »

Totally agree, maybe they should start reading up on this http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2005/en/ukpgaen_20050019_en_1.htm

and just wondering how many of their dealers have licence

i wonder how many dealers in ireland have licence

Moro Man · 10-08-2009 4:10pm

corkie123 wrote: »

i wonder how many dealers in ireland have licence

But how many of them work in casinos following the "UK Protocol"

:)

BOBBB · 10-08-2009 4:14pm

corkie123 wrote: »

I wonder how many dealers in Ireland have a licence?

SIDESHOW BOBs · 10-08-2009 4:19pm

latenia wrote: »

Absolutely correct. I've never seen a croupier or owner playing poker in an Irish casino or accept tips at a gaming table and we always (until recently) had to wait 24 hours to gain membership.

Don't think so, i have seen owner / dealers play poker in any number of irish casinos , and acceptance of tips is not an issue even though this practice is not allowed in the uk to the best of my knowledge.

anyone who plays on a regular basis in waterford killarney galway and most dublin clubs can vouch for this.

uk regulations my arse, time charges in the uk raked pots in eire (yea) are the norm

corkie123 · 10-08-2009 4:24pm

SIDESHOW BOBs wrote: »

Don't think so, i have seen owner / dealers play poker in any number of irish casinos , and acceptance of tips is not an issue even though this practice is not allowed in the uk to the best of my knowledge.

anyone who plays on a regular basis in waterford killarney galway and most dublin clubs can vouch for this.

uk regulations my arse, time charges in the uk RAPED pots in eire (yea) are the norm

RAPED POTS

;););) THE NORM

PS BOPS IS THE MAN

Moro Man · 10-08-2009 4:32pm

SIDESHOW BOBs wrote: »

Don't think so, i have seen owner / dealers play poker in any number of irish casinos , and acceptance of tips is not an issue even though this practice is not allowed in the uk to the best of my knowledge.

anyone who plays on a regular basis in waterford killarney galway and most dublin clubs can vouch for this.

uk regulations my arse, time charges in the uk raked pots in eire (yea) are the norm

Where is the whoosh emoticon:D:D:D

I think you'll find he was using irony

SIDESHOW BOBs · 10-08-2009 4:35pm

corkie123 wrote: »

RAPED POTS ;););) THE NORM

PS BOPS IS THE MAN

Care to expand or even make a valid point SEAN ? I was giving my 2 cents worth from my personal experience not having a cheap shot without any first hand knowledge .

obvoiusly a case of if the hat fits ..............;)

the_pits · 10-08-2009 4:40pm

corkie123 wrote: »

i wonder how many dealers in ireland have licence

I have, had one now for the last 32 years ( Grey Licence) but useless here

SIDESHOW BOBs · 10-08-2009 4:41pm

what are the uk regulations regarding tournament leagues and the money kept back from them , just how much is kept back and how far back is it kept, should make for interesting reading that one lol:D

max_power · 10-08-2009 4:45pm

corkie123 wrote: »

i wonder how many dealers in ireland have licence

There is no Irish Dealer's Licence.

corkie123 · 10-08-2009 5:06pm

SIDESHOW BOBs wrote: »

Care to expand or even make a valid point SEAN ? I was giving my 2 cents worth from my personal experience not having a cheap shot without any first hand knowledge .

obvoiusly a case of if the hat fits ..............;)

well u have played in a lot of poker places in ireland and seen the raping of pots that goes on . time charges are punter better than the raping that goes on here thats my opinion .i was not having a go at u if u think that but if the hat fits wear it i suppose.

D.C.C · 10-08-2009 5:09pm

There are no licences in Ireland and no police checks to gain employment which is a must in the U.K and most European casino's...

Second of all as said before in this thread,the U.K legistlation has changed and casino staff can punt in any other casino except the one they work in and possibly not the same casino group e.g Gala casino's and Grosvenor casino's.........

Ireland has never followed U.K gaming law.The only casino i have visited in Ireland that might come close is the Sporting Emporium in Dublin,but still not in U.K or under U.K legistlation.....

Moro Man · 10-08-2009 6:45pm

SirToYou's head is wrecked from the Macau League Finals and won't be able to post for a few days as he's busy with live poker.:D

I wouldn't hold my breath for an official comment from the Macau as they don't like to entertain grievances of any kind.:rolleyes:

I think we can take it that there is >95% agreement that the reason used for refusal was bogus on a number of fronts. And that even if you used the UK law as a guideline, grounds for refusal would not be there in them

I am disappointed with a few of the responses.

One respondent has privately told a few people it was a disgrace but for some reason will not publicly say so whilst mudding the waters.

Another who was excluded for three years on a even more spurious food related infraction tried to back them up.

I think they both feel it's wiser not to be seen to bite the hand that feeds.

SirToYou knows what side his steak is garlicbuttered on and will no doubt hold his counsel for a few days yet.

Did someone mention tournament leagues?

Once again I'll set my stall out ( not a reg prob barred etc etc )

Any of the Macau heads I've been in contact with since the final date of the Tournament League was announced and the prize fund given have been complaining to anyone who'd listen except of course the people they should complain to:rolleyes::rolleyes:

From What I Gather ( Correct As You See Fit )

League over 16 weeks

Every regular tourney included ( except satellites and start of month )

Say 5 tourneys a week to count

Main tourney Friday generated on avgerage over €3500 - €350 held back/ week

16 times €350 equals €5600

Prize fund for League was €7300

the other 64 tournaments generated €1700

Which is less than €30 / tournament

The players who were keeping track reckon this is light by between 3 to 5k..

Me personally I'd argue its their club, I don't go in there, so it's not my problem mate, but if any of ye are brave enough to give out about it online I applaud you.

SirToYoU wants a concerned players group formed to stop this obvious clerical error from happening again.

Anyone else have any ideas or info that would clear this obvious misunderstanding up

Samba · 10-08-2009 7:18pm

Jayminator wrote: »

Something in the water in Cork I reckon. Why every time I read a Macau related thread is there some sort of entangled bitterness or gripe going on. Makes me want to never visit the place tbh.........

However if this guy is an employee of another casino then they are just enforcing the law but I am not sure if this law relates to ''catering'' employees.

All a bit of the gheyness if ya ask me.

My thoughts exact, I've never visited the Macau and I never will, not so long as I keep reading these threads.

Granted I can't truly know what's occurred in each incident but each time I read one, the general theme appears to be to downright pettiness of some form that only lends to illustrate a clear lack of common sense among management and the owner/s.

Every time I read one of these threads, I can't help but think that maybe current management needs an overhaul and the current owner/s could benefit from removing a physical presence from the day to day operations, put a representative in place (Luke Ivory would be a fine example of the type of level headed person you need to bring in).

aidankk · 10-08-2009 7:30pm

Jayminator wrote: »

Something in the water in Cork I reckon. Why every time I read a Macau related thread is there some sort of entangled bitterness or gripe going on. Makes me want to never visit the place tbh.........

However if this guy is an employee of another casino then they are just enforcing the law but I am not sure if this law relates to ''catering'' employees.

All a bit of the gheyness if ya ask me.

Ask the hurlers:rolleyes: definatly something going on in heads of the PRoC..

Come to think of it Waterford entangled bitterness or gripe in poker (in the past) and Gaa as well, call it a south munster problem..

latenia · 10-08-2009 7:46pm

I don't see how this can even turn into a quality popcorn thread because the Macau are so ridiculously in the wrong. The guy makes the sambos in a casino down the road so they quote him legislation designed to counteract fraud and collusion from a different country. Why would they be using casino law anyway? I thought they're a private sporting members club.

Are people really still surprised when casinos pull sh1t like this? At the end of the day they're just a bunch of carnies in bowties.

Lurker1977 · 10-08-2009 7:48pm

percy007 · 10-08-2009 7:50pm

If there are so many players complaining about how things are done, ie league monies etc........... why are they still playing there???

mdiver · 10-08-2009 7:55pm

There are many reasons why the Macau is failing and all of them are down to poor management and lack of understanding in the industry in which they operate and i really hope Sideshow and Gavin make a real success of their club. They have been on the wrong side of several barrings from the Macau and that is probably one of they key reasons they have for their venture, in fact the number of customers that have been barred by the Macau which any other casino would value as a good customer due to the amount of business they are good for makes no sense at all. When working within the gaming industry their are going to many people you dislike on a personal basis but you can't go barring your best customers for this reason when you should be doing all you can to retain them.
I believe that Cork is one of the only good spots in Ireland left to open a club as the Macua has made such a big mess of it. They have been running pretty much a monopoly in Cork but are in great danger if a half decent rival turns up and i hope that the new club is this rival. I also hope that they realise for a succesful club to work the table games have to be doing well. The guys running the new club know the size of the punters that are in Cork, epsecially the Chinese and if you know how to deal with the Chinese you will make a killiing. They will also know that the Macua didn't deal very well with the Chinese and struggled to keep them under control which puts off other customers from approaching the table games and there are a few good Irish punters knocking about in Cork too. At it's peak on the table game side about 4 years ago the Macau had more cash action than any other club in Ireland, this is the potential market for a new club in Cork and it is there to be exploited.

kebabfest · 10-08-2009 8:18pm

Delighted that McCarthy finally left. Was chatting to the Rock last week in Croker and he was looking to take a hurl to all youse whinging feckers now he has retired.

OilBeefHooked2 · 10-08-2009 8:44pm

Lurker1977 wrote: »

Rebels washing their dirty laundry in public again? and they wonder why Cork's not the "real" capital.

Goodluck2me · 10-08-2009 10:16pm

latenia wrote: »

Are people really still surprised when casinos pull sh1t like this? At the end of the day they're just a bunch of carnies in bowties.

The more I read about the Macau the less I am to visit it too. I assume this guy will get back his share of Tournament entries that were taken out for the league, at the end of the day you can't sell a man a raffle ticket and then not put it into the box. you can't have your cake and eat it.

this and the craic about a pot having to be paid back the next day are two of the worst incidents ive ever heard about re: casino management.

The SirToYou "dignified discussion" with anything to do with Macau

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