$9,000 pot - Is there anything I can do different??

Flipper · 11-01-2007 12:42am #1

Churchill Falls 10474803-75191 Omaha Pot Limit $10/$20
[Jan 10 23:24:14] : Hand Start.
[Jan 10 23:24:14] : Seat 1 : nicedave has $860
[Jan 10 23:24:14] : Seat 2 : halibut2 has $4,429.50
[Jan 10 23:24:14] : Seat 3 : exposed has $3,045.42
[Jan 10 23:24:14] : Seat 4 : RU$TY has $4,669.82
[Jan 10 23:24:14] : Seat 5 : PARIS40 has $1,397
[Jan 10 23:24:14] : Seat 6 : PokerTart has $3,462
[Jan 10 23:24:14] : nicedave is the dealer.
[Jan 10 23:24:15] : halibut2 posted small blind.
[Jan 10 23:24:15] : exposed posted big blind.
[Jan 10 23:24:15] : Game [75191] started with 6 players.
[Jan 10 23:24:15] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Jan 10 23:24:15] : Seat 4 : RU$TY has 6d 8d 3h 4h
[Jan 10 23:24:17] : RU$TY called $20
[Jan 10 23:24:20] : PARIS40 folded.
[Jan 10 23:24:22] : PokerTart called $20
[Jan 10 23:24:25] : nicedave called $20
[Jan 10 23:24:26] : halibut2 called $10 and raised $100
[Jan 10 23:24:28] : exposed folded.
[Jan 10 23:24:33] : RU$TY called $100
[Jan 10 23:24:34] : PokerTart called $100
[Jan 10 23:24:40] : nicedave called $100
[Jan 10 23:24:41] : Dealing flop.
[Jan 10 23:24:41] : Board cards [7c 5d Jh]
[Jan 10 23:24:48] : halibut2 bet $500
[Jan 10 23:25:03] : It's your turn.
[Jan 10 23:25:03] : RU$TY has 10 seconds to respond.
[Jan 10 23:25:07] : RU$TY called $500
[Jan 10 23:25:17] : PokerTart folded.
[Jan 10 23:25:21] : nicedave folded.
[Jan 10 23:25:21] : Dealing turn.
[Jan 10 23:25:21] : Board cards [7c 5d Jh 2d]
[Jan 10 23:25:30] : halibut2 checked.
[Jan 10 23:25:35] : RU$TY bet $1,500
[Jan 10 23:25:37] : halibut2 called $1,500 and raised $2,309.50 and is All-in
[Jan 10 23:25:42] : RU$TY called $2,309.50
[Jan 10 23:25:42] : Showdown!
[Jan 10 23:25:42] : Seat 4 : RU$TY has 6d 8d 3h 4h
[Jan 10 23:25:44] : Seat 2 : halibut2 has 5s 9h 7s 7h
[Jan 10 23:25:44] : Seat 4 : RU$TY has 6d 8d 3h 4h
[Jan 10 23:25:49] : Board cards [7c 5d Jh 2d Kc]
[Jan 10 23:25:49] : Seat 2 : halibut2 has 5s 9h 7s 7h
[Jan 10 23:25:49] : halibut2 has 3 of a Kind: 7s
[Jan 10 23:25:49] : Seat 4 : RU$TY has 6d 8d 3h 4h
[Jan 10 23:25:49] : RU$TY has High Card : King
[Jan 10 23:25:49] : halibut2 wins $9,116 with 3 of a Kind: 7s
[Jan 10 23:25:58] : Hand is over.

BIG-SLICK-POKER · 11-01-2007 12:54am

cant even work out ur outs on river ul mate up and down twice with flush draw 15 outs???? :mad: :mad:

u gambled unlucky

Flipper · 11-01-2007 12:59am

every card from the Ace to the 9 (that doesn't pair the board) and the diamonds. I'm 55% fav on the turn

Lazare · 11-01-2007 1:38am

Wow, what a huge draw! Villain only had one blocker too, v unlucky.

A little loose preflop maybe?

bops · 11-01-2007 1:39am

should you call the pf raise with that??

bops · 11-01-2007 1:40am

ps serious question - not a dig!

Flipper · 11-01-2007 1:42am

The implied odds of playing this hand in a deep stacked game are huge. Add the factor of me being in position and I think you'd be mad not to play for $100 when you can win $5k+

Shortstack · 11-01-2007 1:46am

Just don't play halibut.....

bops · 11-01-2007 1:49am

ok ty just askin!!

cardshark202 · 11-01-2007 1:50am

Mike's advice is best here. The hand is standard though an argument can be made for checking behind on the turn but I would certainly bet.

loosecannon · 11-01-2007 2:03am

i think that the hand was played poorly but not in the way that anyone has mentioned as of yet

pre-flop is fine and although some would fold here, both are good, the point at which the hand went wrong is on the flop (and this is a prime example of how in poker a mistake at one point in the hand can end up costing you a lot more than the actual initial cost)

this is not a good flop for you, you have an open ended straight draw and a very weak backdoor flush draw (with no pair). now the key (imo) to omaha is to draw to the nuts, after this flop you have just 4 outs for the nuts as the jack on the board would give the player with 10 8 the better straight if the 9 comes

so, the question is there anything you can do different in this hand? yes dump on flop asap (i note u used ur time the whole way down when deciding to call or not)

i actually thought it would be an inst-fold on the flop, if u run into somebody playing 10 9 8 6 (quite possible) you are in a world of pain

ul though the way the hand panned out, the turn giving you every chance and the river blanking to the max! leaving you with no pair!

gl:)

cardshark202 · 11-01-2007 2:06am

loosecannon wrote:

i think that the hand was played poorly but not in the way that anyone has mentioned as of yet

pre-flop is fine and although some would fold here, both are good, the point at which the hand went wrong is on the flop (and this is a prime example of how in poker a mistake at one point in the hand can end up costing you a lot more than the actual initial cost)

this is not a good flop for you, you have an open ended straight draw and a very weak backdoor flush draw (with no pair). now the key (imo) to omaha is to draw to the nuts, after this flop you have just 4 outs for the nuts as the jack on the board would give the player with 10 8 the better straight if the 9 comes

so, the question is there anything you can do different in this hand? yes dump on flop asap (i note u used ur time the whole way down when deciding to call or not)

i actually thought it would be an inst-fold on the flop, if u run into somebody playing 10 9 8 6 (quite possible) you are in a world of pain

ul though the way the hand panned out, the turn giving you every chance and the river blanking to the max! leaving you with no pair!

gl:)

There is still a lot of money behind so I think the call is fine on the flop.

loosecannon · 11-01-2007 2:08am

cardshark202 wrote:

The hand is standard though an argument can be made for checking behind on the turn but I would certainly bet.

i don't agree with the hand being standard at all...how can the hand be standard when there are so many different ways that it could have panned out?;)

ps myself manso etc are heading out to oz in feb, i hear ur doin the same, we shall catch up down there i'm sure....

cardshark202 · 11-01-2007 2:13am

loosecannon wrote:

i don't agree with the hand being standard at all...how can the hand be standard when there are so many different ways that it could have panned out?;)

ps myself manso etc are heading out to oz in feb, i hear ur doin the same, we shall catch up down there i'm sure....

Cool yeah I heard that. We'll be in melbourne somewhere around that time.

MrPillowTalk · 11-01-2007 2:17am

Shortstack wrote:

Just don't play halibut.....

eh game selection? how is playing hali ever +ev

Hectorjelly · 11-01-2007 5:21am

Im no omaha expert, but these are my thoughts

I dont think the fact that there is a lot of money behind is going to turn the flop call profitable if Halibut is anything like as good as people are making out in this thread. Implied odds dont really mean much against a very good player, and its not much of a draw.

Also preflop I think your hand is too weak to play utg. Too many gaps.

lazlo · 11-01-2007 5:50am

You have the idiot end of far too many potential straights to be calling his flop bet. Especially with two player to act behind you. I'm surprished netierh of them had a hand worth continuing with especially after you juiced the odds for them. I reckon you would normally be expecting another call behind you(if not a raise which is something you could not stand to call)....both of those eventualities leave you in a very tough spot. Realistically your draw isnt strong enough to proceed beyond the flop and you probably should have only played that hand from a better position to begin with.
Ultimately you did snag a heck of a lot of outs on the turn and were up against the best hand you could have realistically hoped to be against.

fuzzbox · 11-01-2007 9:41am

you could fold the flop.
Your draw is not good on the flop. You have lots of non-nut straight draws, that your opponent might well be all over.

You could also check the turn. Betting is fine if your opponent often fires full pot into a field on the flop with nothing and check/folds the turn. But if he doesnt (and most dont fire the full pot into the field without something), then he surely is not afraid of the 2.

fuzzbox · 11-01-2007 9:42am

Flipper wrote:

The implied odds of playing this hand in a deep stacked game are huge. Add the factor of me being in position and I think you'd be mad not to play for $100 when you can win $5k+

How much implied odds did you get ???????

fuzzbox · 11-01-2007 9:43am

cardshark202 wrote:

There is still a lot of money behind so I think the call is fine on the flop.

I think its the opposite.

Hectorjelly · 11-01-2007 9:57am

fuzzbox wrote:

You could also check the turn. Betting is fine if your opponent often fires full pot into a field on the flop with nothing and check/folds the turn. But if he doesnt (and most dont fire the full pot into the field without something), then he surely is not afraid of the 2.

I was going to post this, but I thought about if for a while. As it turned out their hands were exactly 50 50 on the turn, so checking would be a huge mistake as he only needs to fold a very small amount of the time to make it profitable. The downside to betting is that you are opening yourself up for playing a $10k pot with no pair on the turn, but if you are scared of varience you should probably play lower.

Betting the turn gives you a freeroll in a sense, either you flip for any money that goes in with no positive or negative equity gain, or you take the whole pot which you are certainly going to lose around half the time if theres a showdown.

Flipper · 11-01-2007 10:32am

HJ, I'm 55/45 favourite on the turn (check it if you don't believe me). By betting the turn, I give myself 2 chances to win the pot - I can take it down right there or put it all in against a set and outdraw if the villian wishes.

This is the turning point in the hand - and where an argument can be made for me making a mistake.

kebabfest · 11-01-2007 10:44am

ouch typical Omaha hand. I thought Halibut played it v well. You had a great drawing hand and as you said figured a bet on the turn may have won it then and there and even it didnt you where fav.
From Halibuts perpsepctive it was obviously you had a drawing hand as otherwise you would have raised the flop, so he knew he was ahead.

Ste05 · 11-01-2007 10:51am

Flipper wrote:

HJ, I'm 55/45 favourite on the turn (check it if you don't believe me). By betting the turn, I give myself 2 chances to win the pot - I can take it down right there or put it all in against a set and outdraw if the villian wishes.

This is the turning point in the hand - and where an argument can be made for me making a mistake.

This is basically exactly what HJ just said?

Also, it's hard to make a mistake as a 55% favourite. Maybe you should be looking at the other streets.

5starpool · 11-01-2007 11:40am

I still think folding that flop is the best option though as you don't have a great hand on the flop. The 2d is pretty much the best card in the deck for you though (apart from a 4). Most of your outs though on the tun are to non nuts, and even though they all turned out to be live it is hard to be confident of them surely, especially 8 high diamonds?

Phil-Dublin · 11-01-2007 12:03pm

I really cant believe that you guys are falling for this

Flipper asking for advice is like the spider asking the fly how he could improve the quality of his webs
or expecting turkeys to vote for christmas

Flipper knows only too well what he should be doing in this hand

he was in a coin flip situation and took a punt at the pot, as he says himself he hoped to take it down with a bet, which would have been his best out

how many times do you see that a favorite preflop or even on the flop lose the hand

if you really want advice Flipper, stop playing with rags against that man

i think you were trying it on and it didnt work, you were playing the player instead of the cards and the reads from the betting

ps, why do you think i am an awsome player? or do you just say that to me as a con? like are you bluffing me with that sort of remark? to make me feel good and let me think i am a better player than i actually am? man you are tricky.

anon e mouse

LuckyLloyd · 11-01-2007 12:10pm

This post has been deleted.

Lafortezza · 11-01-2007 12:15pm

I check behind on the turn I think. halibut is not going to check/raise without a hand that has you 50/50 or dominated (a better wrap+flushdraw or something).
If you bet the turn and halibuts has a big pair hand that has missed the board so far like AAxx or KQQJds he'll fold.

I'm all for playing big pots in position with big draws, but against a good player I don't see much wrong with sometimes keeping the pot small until you actually hit your hand.

If you check behind on the turn then you can check fold on a missed river having lost very little. After you checked behind on the turn halibut might bet the river and if you've hit then raise for teh value.

Probably far too passive a line but I don't like playing big pots against good players.

ianmc38 · 11-01-2007 12:16pm

I dont think you have any implied odds on the flop. If the straightening card comes on the turn, hali will not pay you off. Therefore the flop is always a fold. I also think the limp call preflop is bad.

Flipper · 11-01-2007 12:56pm

ummm.... Phil-Dublin (which I'm sure is not even close to your name) - is that a dig at me or something?? Maybe I'm stupid, but I'm not able to work out what you're getting at...

Rb · 11-01-2007 1:00pm

LuckyLloyd wrote:

.

$9,000 pot - Is there anything I can do different??

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