Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

windy shepard henderson · 29-08-2016 1:54am

acequion wrote: »

That totally sums up how I feel.An excellent and gracious post as always, let's pay to heed to those who mince words and lack the grace to respect our pain.

bit dramatic yes but...

you are right , not today wait until the dust settles .....however if charles dance's character in game of thrones was still alive i would be highly suspicious (let's pay to heed to those who mince words and lack the grace to respect our pain! )..... and advance to westros at once

The_Honeybadger · 29-08-2016 2:09am

Officer999 wrote: »

How many more chances does Fitzmaurice need to beat Dublin? In this year alone I've seen Dublin beat Kerry 3 times in Croke Park. 3 times.....
We have the players but a new fresh voice is needed to beat this Dublin puzzle

I wouldn't be too hard on the management really. We were looking to pull off a shock and fell just short. Dublin have better players than Kerry. We'd have a handful of players that'd make their team, at best. We put ourselves in a great position but couldn't hold on. It's a pity, but hardly a surprise.

He has also had horrid luck with injuries this season. Maher, Cooper and JOD have been struggling all year, along with a few others.

It's frustrating being beaten by Dublin all the time but the fact of the matter is they're too good for us at the minute.

PaddyWilliams · 29-08-2016 6:48am

Where's this idea coming from that Dublin 'gifted' Kerry 2 goals. I keep seeing people saying it. Kerry pushed up and forced the errors, they were not gifted anything!

Stoner · 29-08-2016 7:04am

PaddyWilliams wrote:

Where's this idea coming from that Dublin 'gifted' Kerry 2 goals. I keep seeing people saying it. Kerry pushed up and forced the errors, they were not gifted anything!

Brolly

DDC1990 · 29-08-2016 7:19am

Stoner wrote:

The only difference between O'Mahonys tackle and McManamons was that Philly McMahon got up straight away, Crowley stayed down tried to get the game stopped because Dublin kicked on, just like kerry kicked on when McMahon was floored by O'Mahony.

Of course things are missed on both sides but of the key decisions Dublin managed to get them at crucial times. Thats not to say that Dublin weren't the better team or that Dublin didn't deserve it, because they did. Whether Gough got caught up in the crowd or just genuinely missed the crucial fouls, I don't know but that's sport.

On the "Crowley tried to get the game stopped" whereas Saint Philly was a man and played on. That is absolute bollox. Crowley was concussed and both of the Kerry doctors tried to drag him off the field, but he pulled away from them to get back and try to cover Connolly who ended up getting the score. Doctors don't try to physically drag a guy off for feigning injury.

You've watched football enough to know the black card rule. Enright didn't pull the man to ground, he pulled the man and left go of the jersey as he was going to ground. It's a stupid loophole but the referee got that one spot on.

If you can't see why Costello jumping on Begley's back and wrestling him to ground to stop him joining the attack and then shoving his face into the ground for 15 or 20 seconds until Kerry were turned over is different, and why it should be highlighted that's grand. Here is my reasoning:

I think that goes against everything I love about this sport. For an exceptionally talented and skillful young man to resort to assaulting a fellow young footballer in the name of a football game is sad. That's not manly or playing the game, thats cowardice, hitting a man from behind.

McManamon's foul was more important, but it was a footballing act. It was an attempt to tackle and a brave one. He didn't think about giving away a free. He went hard with the shoulder and caught Crowley in the chest and got away with it.

As I said referees get things wrong on both sides. I understand that it was a tough physical battle, but when you are beaten it's easier to pick the missed refereeing calls than to call out legends of the game for coming up short on chances they should be taking.

I still think that Gough gave Dublin easier frees. I think he allowed the Dublin backs to be a lot more hands on, whilst blowing up Enright when both himself and Brogan were tustling for position. Little things, that psychologically at 4 points down a referee will give a free here or there to the chasing team that he won't give to the leading team. We probably benifiteed from it when chasing in the first half.

At the end of the day Dublin dominated the first 25 minutes. They dominated from 35 to 45 minutes. They dominated from 60 to 70 minutes. We could have beaten them on the day with a little more luck, and we would have deserved it for going toe to toe with them. They are the best team in the country, and had to work for their win.

PaddyWilliams · 29-08-2016 7:44am

Stoner wrote: »

Brolly

Makes sense. His hatred of Kerry is almost laughable at this stage.

Stoner · 29-08-2016 7:50am

DDC1990 wrote:

On the "Crowley tried to get the game stopped" whereas Saint Philly was a man and played on. That is absolute bollox. Crowley was concussed and both of the Kerry doctors tried to drag him off the field, but he pulled away from them to get back and try to cover Connolly who ended up getting the score. Doctors don't try to physically drag a guy off for feigning injury.

Fair enough.

Stoner · 29-08-2016 7:56am

DDC1990 wrote:

whilst blowing up Enright when both himself and Brogan were tustling for position. Little things, that psychologically at 4 points down a referee will give a free here or there to the chasing team that he won't give to the leading team. We probably benifiteed from it when chasing in the first half.

No way Enright pulled him down there, he was lucky again, but with the amount of black cards not given it would have been harsh.
Brogan was on for goal there , there was no tussling for possession you are clouding the issue, Brogan had the ball he won it, beat his man Enright the defender pulled him down.

Kerry's third point was a gimmy.

Stoner · 29-08-2016 8:29am

DDC1990 wrote:

I think that goes against everything I love about this sport. For an exceptionally talented and skillful young man to resort to assaulting a fellow young footballer in the name of a football game is sad. That's not manly or playing the game, thats cowardice, hitting a man from behind.

Ahh here DCC1990.

Start looking at your own men from that moral high ground.

Your language here needs checking imo, cowardice and assault?

Gooch hits Connelly off the ball and then moans at the ref for protection. Assault? Cowardice?

O'Mahony made no attempt to play the ball and went out of his way to burst McMahon. Was that an assault ? look at the pictures in the other thread he never looked at he ball.

Walsh trying to hit a man off the ball on the shoulder he just received an injury and was recovering from.
Cowardice and assault maybe??

Go on off now with your "cowardice" and "assault" language and going against everything you believe in. Imagine hitting an injured player on his injury. Does that go along with "everything you love about sport' ?

I saw Costello drag his man down alright, he got a black card for it

Take your beating properly look at some of your own players behaviour, the ref let lots go.
That's what the commentators said.

If you are going to dissect everything you think didn't go your way then do of for some of your own guys too.

I'm finished arguing this anyway, I'm tired of pointing out things for the past 5 years to some posters.
How many times do you have to be beaten before you properly acknowledge a loss, constantly leaving little digs in about the ref and other BS. Trying for some moral high ground weak argument, you are just being a bad loser here IMO

Kerry's time will come again. But you lost yesterday. Both teams got away with things yesterday that another ref wouldn't allow.

DDC1990 · 29-08-2016 8:59am

Stoner wrote:

I'm finished arguing this anyway, I'm tired of pointing out things for the past 5 years to some posters. How many times do you have to be beaten before you properly acknowledge a loss, constantly leaving little digs in about the ref and other BS. Trying for some moral high ground weak argument, you are just being a bad loser here IMO

I've said it countless times that Dublin deserved to win. I've also said Costello's one was insignificant to the result.
I'm looking for no moral high ground or anything of the sort. If a Kerry player committed an act like that he'd deserve to be called out as well.

You didn't see the Costello incident if you think he just dragged him to ground. It happened literally right in from of me. He repeatedly shoved his head into the ground to stop him getting up.

I didn't see the Cooper or Walsh incidents but i'll take your word on them. You've told me when they happened in a previous post so i'll look them up later.

In response to the Enright foul. We are talking about 2 different fouls. The one i'm on about is the one Gough gave advantage for and blew up after Killian Young blocked down. They two of them were pulling each other for position and Gough gace advantage. The other one was a definite foul.

Stoner · 29-08-2016 9:04am

DDC1990 wrote:

You didn't see the Costello incident if you think he just dragged him to ground. It happened literally right in from of me. He repeatedly shoved his head into the ground to stop him getting up.

I just saw them rolling around alright. They didn't show Gooch hitting Connelly, commentators picked up on it. Like the Costello incident you'll have to take my word on it,
I was in the Cusack, had a great angle on Walsh aiming for McCarthy, the TV angle is wrong but it's there when I said.

The_Honeybadger · 29-08-2016 11:29am

PaddyWilliams wrote: »

Where's this idea coming from that Dublin 'gifted' Kerry 2 goals. I keep seeing people saying it. Kerry pushed up and forced the errors, they were not gifted anything!

Absolutely agree with this. I've seen it implied a few times now that the position we were in at half time was nothing more than blind luck. Cluxton has been suspect for years but most teams don't have the energy to chase down his kickouts and don't have the tools to take advantage even if they catch him out. It was part of the strategy yesterday to pressurise him and look what happened. I hope Mayo were watching

wonga77 · 29-08-2016 11:42am

Who do ye reckon will retire from the current setup? Marc, AOM and Donaghy anyway, Cooper and Walsh cant have much left in the tank either at this stage

ShamoBuc · 29-08-2016 11:45am

You could very easily do a 2 min YouTube clip of all the kerry fouls, shouldering an injured player on his injured shoulder on purpose, gooch's foul on Connolly, o,'donoghue effort of a tackle, donaghy flying tackle, aom tackle etc. It wouldn't look particularly good

You could do a similar one from a dublin perspective, frontal charge/ shoulder type challenges, black card offences etc that too wouldn't look particularly good.

The ref left a lot go on both sides. Kerry fans feel agrieved because they lost, Dublin fans feel far less agrieved because they won.

In the grand scheme of things I think the ref did on ok job, no more. There should have been another couple of black cards, he issued yellow instead. Was he the reason kerry lost? Of course not. Was there a couple of 'easy ' frees near the end? Yes, but one was definitely correct, touching the ball on the ground though. But he also gave kerry a few handy ones in front of goal in the first half just before the goals.
Generally you would like to think over the course of nearly 80 mins, these decisions would even out, and I think they did.

His performance certainly did not deserve the attention he got from kerry fans at the end, they let themselves down badly in my opinion. But that was probably down to losing to Dublin again, that's obviously very hard for Kerry fans to take, but such is life.

A lot of that team will considered retirement and rightly so. They have given up their best years and should be proud of their achievements. That Kerry team need a lot of new blood and there is enough to choose from. Their work at underage is paying dividends with some fine talent coming through. Going for 3 minor all Ireland's in a row is testament to that.

danganabu · 29-08-2016 12:36pm

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

surly kerry would be foolish to change manager in the middle of a transition period

I would imagine if there is to be a change it would be more of a case of Eamon Fitzmaurice deciding that he has had enough, not the other way around?

DDC1990 wrote: »

Black card not even mentioned.

The over the top praise for Gough for 'letting the game flow' took up too much time.

A referee's job is to apply the rules of the game, not to make it entertaining.

Gough completely ignored the rules, probably made for a better spectacle but it is not for him to decide what rules should and should not be applied, there was at least 5 black card incidents before he finally gave one.

homerjay2005 · 29-08-2016 3:37pm

i think our performance is being completely over stated yesterday, take out the brief spell before half time where we scored 2-4, of which we got two soft goals and you are talking a different game.

in the remaining 65 odd mins, we were outscored 22 points to 10. we were poor and much of that is down to a very poor set up from Fitzmaurice and his back room team, the set up in the first 20 mins was bizzare and we got our subs/changes wrong, as we got our tactics.

losing by 2 points flattered us to be honest.

quad_red · 29-08-2016 3:50pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i think our performance is being completely over stated yesterday, take out the brief spell before half time where we scored 2-4, of which we got two soft goals and you are talking a different game.

in the remaining 65 odd mins, we were outscored 22 points to 10. we were poor and much of that is down to a very poor set up from Fitzmaurice and his back room team, the set up in the first 20 mins was bizzare and we got our subs/changes wrong, as we got our tactics.

losing by 2 points flattered us to be honest.

Absolutely. As soon as the pattern of the second half emerged you just knew they were going to remorselessly whittle down that lead.

Every Kerry player died on his feet but the losing and eventual winning of that game was with Dublin.

Conor52 · 29-08-2016 3:58pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i think our performance is being completely over stated yesterday, take out the brief spell before half time where we scored 2-4, of which we got two soft goals and you are talking a different game.

in the remaining 65 odd mins, we were outscored 22 points to 10. we were poor and much of that is down to a very poor set up from Fitzmaurice and his back room team, the set up in the first 20 mins was bizzare and we got our subs/changes wrong, as we got our tactics.

losing by 2 points flattered us to be honest.

I think our main problem at the moment is converting possession into scoring chances. I'd love to see some stats to see what percentage of our possessions actually resulted in a scoring opportunity. Dublin are miles ahead of us in this area.

danganabu · 29-08-2016 4:11pm

Not disagreeing with you homerjay, but this notion that they were 'soft' goals really gets on my goat! I don't get the meaning of it, a goal is a goal??

One came from a mistake from Cluxton, a mistake that he was forced into by Kerry closing down the space and options in front of him, and was very well finished.

The second goal came directly from a tactic that Kerry had employed the entire first half of high ball into the FF line where Dublin were perceived to be weak, it had already yielded 2 points and a free that was converted.

It's ok to say that if you took out that 10 minute spell it would be a different game etc. but what about the fact that Dublin didn't score for 14 mins of the first half and again for 12 mins in the middle of the second half, surely Kerry deserve credit for that.

danganabu · 29-08-2016 4:12pm

Conor52 wrote: »

I think our main problem at the moment is converting possession into scoring chances. I'd love to see some stats to see what percentage of our possessions actually resulted in a scoring opportunity. Dublin are miles ahead of us in this area.

They are miles ahead of everyone in that area to be honest, they just have so many options and so many technically brilliant footballers that it doesnt matter if one of them has an off day ( Paul Flynn yesterday) someone else just takes up the baton.

Conor52 · 29-08-2016 4:21pm

danganabu wrote: »

They are miles ahead of everyone in that area to be honest, they just have so many options and so many technically brilliant footballers that it doesnt matter if one of them has an off day ( Paul Flynn yesterday) someone else just takes up the baton.

That's fair enough to be fair. Sometimes, though, i think we are too quick to try to play the hollywood pass and the vast majority of the the time these are at best 50/50 balls. A bit more patience to work a better scoring opportunity. I understand its risk/reward but against a team like Dublin, turnovers are punished more often than not.

DDC1990 · 29-08-2016 5:03pm

Just saw the phantom replay of the 45 for the first time. Thought it was strange at the time but being so far away it was hard to tell if it was the correct call or not.

Going to throw my programme at David Gough's facebook page in rage.

BonnieSituation · 29-08-2016 5:04pm

DDC1990 wrote: »

Just saw the phantom replay of the 45 for the first time. Thought it was strange at the time but being so far away it was hard to tell if it was the correct call or not.

Going to throw my programme at David Gough's facebook page in rage.

But not directly at it. You have to miss, you know, to show your rage but not thuggery. :P

Stoner · 29-08-2016 5:06pm

homerjay2005 wrote:

losing by 2 points flattered us to be honest.

It really didn't. It was fair. As discussed last night of all the 6 commentators only brolly didn't recognise the press by Kerry. He's the source of the handy goal comments, he's belittled Kerry's win over Donegal with the same excuse. If kerry keep getting handy goals then it's not luck

The only thing was that Kerry didn't do it for a spell in the second half.

It was a close game, Dublin kept throwing on attacking players too. Tactically it was very interesting.
One thing I thought Aidan O'Mahony had a good game. Didn't look finished to me. Gooch continues to look like a player that flourished when his team were dominant but struggles with parts of the game that more modern players have developed, yet yesterday had he been more economical with the chances he had the would have had a good game.
Geaney was technically the best forward on the pitch. Connelly had as many wayward shots as Gooch.
Lads like Kilkenny, Flynn, O'Sullivan, McCarthy and Fenton make difference for me, the kerry halfback line does not have players like that. Gooch no longer needs two men watching him as to a degree there are a few Dublin defenders that have him curtailed.
JOD, Geaney are a different story. Darren O'Sullivan can't last a game but would be a brilliant impact sub imo and is still hard to handle, as he was in the final last year.
BJK cane on for Walsh and kicked a fantastic point . Moran played two wonderful passes in the game too.
Two points is nothing , the that was a close game. It's possible that the line lost it though, or Dublins line won it. Kerry were expecting Bastic, Daly, Lowndes but got Mannion , Andrews and O'Gara instead.
Dublin have never lined out or finished up with the team that finished yesterday.
Kerry did either like for like or possibly the opposite with MOS coming on.

DDC1990 · 29-08-2016 5:52pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But not directly at it. You have to miss, you know, to show your rage but not thuggery. :P

Actually for some reason I can't find my programme?

Must have lobbed left it in Croker.

BonnieSituation · 29-08-2016 6:01pm

DDC1990 wrote: »

Actually for some reason I can't find my programme?

Must have lobbed left it in Croker.

I never got one yesterday. Raging.

quad_red · 29-08-2016 7:06pm

Mike Quirke on second captains podcast had a stat there: Before yesterday, in the last 10 mins of every Kerry v Dublin match since 2013, Dublin have outscored Kerry 4-10 to 4 points.

That's shattering stuff.

BonnieSituation · 29-08-2016 7:59pm

quad_red wrote: »

Mike Quirke on second captains podcast had a stat there: Before yesterday, in the last 10 mins of every Kerry v Dublin match since 2013, Dublin have outscored Kerry 4-10 to 4 points.

That's shattering stuff.

That's a mental stat when written down. We could all have anecdotally suggested it might be that.

The 7 points in 2013 as I've said before were as a result of ye going 10min without a score in the last 10 min of the game.

29-08-2016 8:29pm

Kerry V Dublin throws up another classic. Both sides deserve huge credit for exhibiting all the skills in the game. This is a Kerry team where our star players have been past our best for some years. They battled manfully against a great Dublin team. Unfortunately in a game where the margins were so small I felt a number of decisions went against Kerry. Such is life. It happened to Mayo in the replay in 2014. The future is bright. There have been some terrific minor teams in recent years and I expect the next decade to be a fruitful one. Until then the famine will continue.

TITANIUM. · 29-08-2016 10:04pm

Whats the story with this phantom 45 lad's?

Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

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