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N5 Ballaghaderreen Bypass

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Comments

  • #352
    mackerski
    Registered Users Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭mackerski


    almccabe wrote: »
    on a happier note......I saw a Navteq/HERE Maps car surveying the road last week on Wednesday. Great to see!!

    What took them? It's already on OSM :)


  • #353
    almccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭almccabe


    mackerski wrote: »
    What took them? It's already on OSM :)

    well i guess they collect it to a greater degree ;) no guess work with them, they drove all the side roads and everything!


  • #354
    mackerski
    Registered Users Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭mackerski


    almccabe wrote: »
    well i guess they collect it to a greater degree ;) no guess work with them, they drove all the side roads and everything!

    So did I ;)


  • #355
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Some motorbikers with a (loose) chip on their shoulders. The road was built to international specs and motorbikes are a tiny % of traffic. If those specs aren't good enough for you drive more slowly. The speed limit is presumably only 80-100 anyway, though I rarely see bikers driving under the limit.


  • #356
    same ol sh1te
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭same ol sh1te


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Some motorbikers with a (loose) chip on their shoulders. The road was built to international specs and motorbikes are a tiny % of traffic. If those specs aren't good enough for you drive more slowly. The speed limit is presumably only 80-100 anyway, though I rarely see bikers driving under the limit.

    It's the junctions that become dangerous with chippings, like I already said the Culmore junction at Swinford is treacherous with pebbles all over the junction coming the old road from Charlestown. Slowing a motorcycle coming to a junction is hard enough on 2 wheels without having pebbles everywhere. A heavy motorcycle doesn't balance very well going slow and then you do all your braking with the front wheel which also happens to do the steering. Going over pebbles means you have no breaking power and much less control. Ridiculously short sighted.

    It's not just motorcyclists, cyclists suffer too, but sure who cares about them either.

    The road is not built to international spec, it's unique to Ireland and not good enough, too many corners cut regarding drainage and slip roads. If your going to build a bypass, build it right, make sure the slow moving traffic doesn't hinder the faster traffic, especially when there are long hill climbs. My Dad is a truck driver and says he's dropping 2-3 gears on some if the hills with nowhere for the traffic behind him to safely pass without crossing the white line, he's not allowed drive in the hard shoulder. Also, traffic slowing at any junction to turn left off the road should be slowing in their own filter lane, not braking and slowing the traffic in the main driving lane. It is utter madness what they are passing off as modern safe roads, they are anything but.


  • #357
    godskitchen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭godskitchen


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Some motorbikers with a (loose) chip on their shoulders. The road was built to international specs and motorbikes are a tiny % of traffic. If those specs aren't good enough for you drive more slowly. The speed limit is presumably only 80-100 anyway, though I rarely see bikers driving under the limit.

    Rubbish, I have driven all over Europe and their major trunk roads are not to this international specs. Countries big and small.

    The road is too narrow and the junctions too short.

    By the way, I think we get our motorways pretty spot on and the likes of the Charlestown bypass are fine, apart from short tight angle junctions


  • #358
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,542 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    godskitchen wrote: »
    Rubbish, I have driven all over Europe and their major trunk roads are not to this international specs. Countries big and small.

    The road is too narrow and the junctions too short.

    This is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a "major trunk road"

    It is built to spec for its expected traffic at design year - which will be 30+ years away. You're clearly massively over-estimating the importance and traffic on the road when making comparisons to elsewhere.


  • #359
    Geogregor
    Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Geogregor


    same ol sh1te wrote: »
    The road is not built to international spec, it's unique to Ireland and not good enough, too many corners cut regarding drainage and slip roads. If your going to build a bypass, build it right, make sure the slow moving traffic doesn't hinder the faster traffic, especially when there are long hill climbs. My Dad is a truck driver and says he's dropping 2-3 gears on some if the hills with nowhere for the traffic behind him to safely pass without crossing the white line, he's not allowed drive in the hard shoulder. Also, traffic slowing at any junction to turn left off the road should be slowing in their own filter lane, not braking and slowing the traffic in the main driving lane. It is utter madness what they are passing off as modern safe roads, they are anything but.
    godskitchen wrote: »
    Rubbish, I have driven all over Europe and their major trunk roads are not to this international specs. Countries big and small.

    The road is too narrow and the junctions too short.

    By the way, I think we get our motorways pretty spot on and the likes of the Charlestown bypass are fine, apart from short tight angle junctions

    Now, I have to admit I haven't driven this road yet but watching the two videos posted here a few days ago I can't see anything wrong with this road.

    Remember that this road is not a motorway or even a dual carriageway. It is a standard 2 lane road which you can encounter in most of the countries.

    So when you overtake slower vehicle you always have to cross the white line. What's wrong with that? Just make sure you do it where it isn't solid white ;)

    As for sight lines, I can't see any problem either. You can see quite far away and decide if or when to overtake.

    It seems that you simply expected a higher class of road.

    Would it be needed? I have to admit I don't know. What are the traffic figures on this stretch of the N5?


  • #360
    same ol sh1te
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭same ol sh1te


    Maybe you should drive the road before you comment on it, you cannot get the sense for distance or gradient from a video. There very long steep hills that slow moving vehicles will have to reduce speed for. If an articulated lorry pulls out at Ballagh heading for Charlestown it will struggle to climb the long climb up the hill and unless the driver uses the hard shoulder they will cause a huge tailback behind if there is traffic coming the other way. This hill is 7-10km long (I'll measure next time)

    Also, as I already said, the filter lanes are too short, much too short to slow in to enable you to turn left, therefore you are braking and slowing the traffic behind just so you can turn left.


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  • #361
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    Geogregor wrote: »
    Would it be needed? I have to admit I don't know. What are the traffic figures on this stretch of the N5?

    For this year:
    N5 Between Tulsk and Frenchpark: 4708 AADT link
    N5 Between Swinford and Charlestown: 4958 AADT link


  • #362
    Geogregor
    Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Geogregor


    same ol sh1te wrote: »
    Maybe you should drive the road before you comment on it
    Maybe, but then internet forums would be mostly restricted to few locals. I think video gives reasonable good indication of the road design.
    There very long steep hills that slow moving vehicles will have to reduce speed for. If an articulated lorry pulls out at Ballagh heading for Charlestown it will struggle to climb the long climb up the hill and unless the driver uses the hard shoulder they will cause a huge tailback behind if there is traffic coming the other way. This hill is 7-10km long (I'll measure next time)

    Also, as I already said, the filter lanes are too short, much too short to slow in to enable you to turn left, therefore you are braking and slowing the traffic behind just so you can turn left.

    All you write might be perfectly true but then:
    markpb wrote: »
    For this year:
    N5 Between Tulsk and Frenchpark: 4708 AADT link
    N5 Between Swinford and Charlestown: 4958 AADT link

    With such low traffic counts few more conservative design features shouldn't be a problem.
    There is two lane road near my hometown carrying 13670 AADT.
    So, there are plenty of roads like that in Europe.

    There is really no need for overengineered road in location with so low traffic.


  • #363
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,600 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Geogregor wrote: »
    Maybe, but then internet forums would be mostly restricted to few locals. I think video gives reasonable good indication of the road design.



    All you write might be perfectly true but then:


    With such low traffic counts few more conservative design features shouldn't be a problem.
    There is two lane road near my hometown carrying 13670 AADT.
    So, there are plenty of roads like that in Europe.

    There is really no need for overengineered road in location with so low traffic.


    Its not so much the local traffic that would be using the road though. People doing a longer journey (Westport-Dublin etc) have enough woes doing that length of journey without tractors and the likes doing their nut in.

    Your argument would make much of the M6, M8, M3, M9 obselete if followed. Look at the bigger picture.


  • #364
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Its not so much the local traffic that would be using the road though. People doing a longer journey (Westport-Dublin etc) have enough woes doing that length of journey without tractors and the likes doing their nut in.

    I drive Dublin to Belmullet fairly regularly and while tractors are certainly a pain, a high spec 13km stretch isn't going to make much difference on a 315km drive. If the entire route was DC, I'd be much happier but we have to be realistic about the volume of traffic on that road vs the amount of money that would need to be invested.


  • #365
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    veryangryman wrote: »
    without tractors and the likes doing their nut in.
    Surely tractors and their likes will be on the old (now local) road?


  • #366
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,600 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    serfboard wrote: »
    Surely tractors and their likes will be on the old (now local) road?

    Didn't happen in athlone. I imagine they will use the bypass. Farmers are still farmers.


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  • #367
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    serfboard wrote: »
    Surely tractors and their likes will be on the old (now local) road?
    Depends on where their fields are relative to the farm, they'll use the shortest route.


  • #368
    DJP
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭DJP


    Does anyone now if the new road has the new road signage with Irish and English printed in the same size on it?


  • #369
    D Trent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭D Trent


    Darren J. Prior wrote: »
    Does anyone now if the new road has the new road signage with Irish and English printed in the same size on it?

    That idea is for motorways only.
    It's far too expensive to have it done on primary routes all over the country


  • #370
    DJP
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭DJP


    D Trent wrote: »
    That idea is for motorways only.

    How do you know?
    D Trent wrote: »
    It's far too expensive to have it done on primary routes all over the country

    There is little if indeed any cost at all because it only relates to new signs.

    So can anyone who uses the road tell me are they on it??


  • #371
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,542 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    There has been no change to the legislation for road signs as yet so no, it has the current ones.


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  • #372
    DJP
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭DJP


    MYOB wrote: »
    There has been no change to the legislation for road signs as yet so no, it has the current ones.

    Do you know for definite? Because Leo announced last year that the new ones would have the change. This issue is not covered by legislation. Maybe ideally it should be and that could happen with the review of the OLA being announced in the short months ahead of it but I would find it odd that they announced the change and then did not go ahead with it.


  • #373
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,542 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Darren J. Prior wrote: »
    Do you know for definite? Because Leo announced last year that the new ones would have the change. This issue is not covered by legislation. Maybe ideally it should be and that could happen with the review of the OLA being announced in the short months ahead of it but I would find it odd that they announced the change and then did not go ahead with it.


    Yes. Nothing has changed.

    Road signs are covered by the Traffic Signs Manual which has not been changed.


  • #374
    D Trent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭D Trent


    Darren J. Prior wrote: »
    How do you know?



    There is little if indeed any cost at all because it only relates to new signs.

    So can anyone who uses the road tell me are they on it??

    No they are not on the bypass



  • #375
    DJP
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭DJP


    Thank you both for your responses. I have emailed the NRA to see what the story is with them.


  • #376
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    Darren J. Prior wrote: »
    I would find it odd that they announced the change and then did not go ahead with it.

    Politicians announce things all the thing, it doesn't mean that it will happen soon or even happen at all. Every hair-brained political idea needs to be written into an SI or act which takes time to do (properly). Something which affects road signs, road safety and an expenditure of tens of millions over several years won't happen overnight.


  • #377
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Even if Varadkar did say that, it was an idea only and may never happen.
    And it should not as Irish should not be given prominence in an English-speaking country.


  • #378
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    attachment.php?attachmentid=405196&d=1278553173


  • #379
    RED L4 0TH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭RED L4 0TH


    Now on Google Maps. Old route is still labelled the N5 though.


  • #380
    almccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭almccabe


    its updated on HERE.com now also, old N5 re-named as L1244


  • #381
    YouTookMyName
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,361 ✭✭✭YouTookMyName


    This really helps on the road to dublin, good god.

    The only problem is the stretch when it finishes until you leave tarmonbarry.


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  • #382
    joujoujou
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,802 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    And funny thing - once old N5 (L1244 now) was N5 yet, it was perfectly safe to do 100km/h on it, but now it's not safe to do so anymore, so speed limit's been dropped to 80km/h now. :o


  • #383
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    L and R roads by default get an 80 limit.
    The county council can increase the limit, if they wish, like Galway did with the old n6, or Louth did with the r132 and the road to Carlingford from Ballymascanlon.

    But if they don't, then the limit is the default.


  • #384
    yop
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 16,724 Mod ✭✭✭✭yop


    V surprised they didn't put a passing out lane on that road. Was stuck behind 2 40ft lorries on Friday coming down from Dublin, weather was poor and visibility v hard to see, was stuck behind them from Tulsk, then I went to pass them on the new road on a broken line and there was a dip in the road and car heading for me!! Scared the life out of me and the person coming towards me had every right to be really peed off with me.
    Why they have passing out lanes on the Knock/Claremorris road and not this one I can't figure.
    Still takes time off though.


  • #385
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,542 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I'm not 100% sure if you can put 100km/h on an L road. There's a fair few R roads around with it, many of which were never N roads - all over North Cork for instance.


  • #386
    MayoSalmon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    YouTookMyName wrote: »
    This really helps on the road to dublin, good god.

    The only problem is the stretch when it finishes until you leave tarmonbarry.

    You basically mean the county of Roscommon:D


  • #387
    hardCopy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    You basically mean the county of Roscommon:D

    A bypass of Tulsk, Bellanagare and Frenchpark would have had more of an impact, I never found Ballaghadereen itself to cause any real delays. You can easily be stuck doing 70kph for ages through these towns.

    I know there are archaeological reasons why this hasn't been done which have been discussed on this forum before.


  • #388
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Lotusm has a good post with what Roscommon County council preferred route corridor, as can been seen it appears to give Cruachan Aí a wide berth.
    lotusm wrote: »
    Got a brochure from the National roads design office in Roscommon outlining the route from Ballaghaderreen to strokestown . Now this is a few years old and appears to be at stage 3 at the time "Route Corridor Selection"... Not sure how relevant it is but see attached details..

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81560600&postcount=90


  • #389
    paulbok
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,988 ✭✭✭paulbok


    Haven't seen any updated corridor map since this one, but the scheme has been extended from Scramogue to join up with the new Longford bypass. It'll be interesting to see this route considering the problem they had in sections of the bogs between Scramogue and Tarmon, and also where (if there is) a new bridge across the Shannon will be.


  • #390
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,542 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Surprised they aren't doing everything they can to try "preserve" the investment in the new bit between Longford and Strokestown - which would probably have been needed anyway even if all that was was a more direct L road between the towns...

    It may explain why they haven't done the obvious, tiny, bypass of Stokestown too.


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  • #391
    paulbok
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,988 ✭✭✭paulbok


    L1011 wrote: »
    Surprised they aren't doing everything they can to try "preserve" the investment in the new bit between Longford and Strokestown - which would probably have been needed anyway even if all that was was a more direct L road between the towns...

    It may explain why they haven't done the obvious, tiny, bypass of Stokestown too.

    The obvious bypass, going straight on at the bad bend at the old football field as you come into the town (Dublin side) would have to navigate around several small lakes to get back out onto the Tulsk road, map, then there is the issue of the Rathcroghan complex. This is why the preferred route completely bypasses both towns to the north.


  • #392
    RED L4 0TH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭RED L4 0TH


    paulbok wrote: »
    Haven't seen any updated corridor map since this one, but the scheme has been extended from Scramogue to join up with the new Longford bypass. It'll be interesting to see this route considering the problem they had in sections of the bogs between Scramogue and Tarmon, and also where (if there is) a new bridge across the Shannon will be.

    Would this not raise the cost considerably, especially if a bridge is needed? Scramoge to Tarmon is still relatively new (2004), and is a decent section of road. Seems an awful waste to bypass this section of N5.


  • #393
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,542 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    paulbok wrote: »
    The obvious bypass, going straight on at the bad bend at the old football field as you come into the town (Dublin side) would have to navigate around several small lakes to get back out onto the Tulsk road, map, then there is the issue of the Rathcroghan complex. This is why the preferred route completely bypasses both towns to the north.

    Doesn't even have to go out that far - you could get rid of the bends and the trip down main street by cutting across (not directly over the football pitch!) and heading for the gap in the houses on the N5 not hugely far outside the town. Does nothing more than bypass the town, but that itself would be an advantage.


  • #394
    paulbok
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,988 ✭✭✭paulbok


    The ground conditions are poor along that route, there is a huge spring between the pitch and those houses that used be the water supply for the town, and around that lake the other side of the houses is boggy as well. It would be a easy route alright to bypass the town (it's only a training pitch nowadays, so no major issue with that) but the ground conditions for that stretch would be a nightmare.
    even if that was acomplished, you are then back on the Tulsk road which would need upgrading. straighforward enough to perhaps widen that until you get to Tulsk but after you are faced with the Rathcroghan problem. no obvious route without impacting the historic sites.
    Those 2 issues are why the preferred route now heads north of Strokestown and goes closer to Elphin and on to Bellanagare/Frenchpark.

    This shows the current planning proposal on the NRA website regarding the extension of the scheme to Longford, don't know any more than that, but if it happens, it would have to involve a new bridge at Tarmon and may well be an upgrade to the 'new' stretch from there to Strokestown.


    There was a alternative route proposed elsewhere that instead of upgrading through Strokestown, the sligo road from Longford to Sligo (past Carrick on Shannon anyways) gets upgraded and then spurs south west to Frechpark (map). It wouldn't add a considerable length to the journey from Longford to Ballhadereen maybe 10-15% longer and theres a double benifit of upgrading two routes at once, well half the Sligo route anyway.
    That proposal from what I remember didn't get much consideration for some reason.


  • #395
    paulbok
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,988 ✭✭✭paulbok


    I was speaking with someone who's land is affected by the new route and they had a consultant out a week ago from the NRA. Looks like the scheme is to start early in 2016 with CPO's completed by the end of this year.


  • #396
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    paulbok wrote: »
    I was speaking with someone who's land is affected by the new route and they had a consultant out a week ago from the NRA. Looks like the scheme is to start early in 2016 with CPO's completed by the end of this year.

    Which part of what scheme ?


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  • #397
    paulbok
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,988 ✭✭✭paulbok


    Ballaghdereen to Longford.


    Perhaps it should get it's own thread from here?


  • #398
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    paulbok wrote: »
    Ballaghdereen to Longford.


    Perhaps it should get it's own thread from here?
    Thanks, Didn't even think it was on the radar yet.


  • #399
    joujoujou
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,802 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    paulbok wrote: »
    [...] it should get it's own thread from here?

    Good idea! :)


  • #400
    lotusm
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭lotusm


    joujoujou wrote: »
    Good idea! :)

    What is the new link to the thread


  • #401
    joujoujou
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,802 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    No thread, no link.


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