Bord Gais Heat - Overcharged?!

sandrewge · 04-05-2011 11:09pm #1

I am a customer of BG Heat and this month I received a very high bill for the months of February and March. This is almost double of what we were expecting. They haven't increased the price but it's the heat usage that has increased.

It is very strange because it is even higher than our previous bill, from December to January (900 kWh used), when it was very cold and we would set the boiler for 3-4 hours a day and since February we only set it to 1 hour a day (and occasionally 2) and the bill says we've used 1400kwh which sounds crazy. I was expecting something like the bill before Christmas when we used about a total of 450Kwh (in 2 months).

This is the first bill since a letter we received in March saying they would change the meter and I thought that maybe the new meter was not working well or that it was an estimation. So I called the company, and after a few days trying without nobody answering I got to talk to the woman. She told me that they changed the meter because the old one wasn't working well, it was not capturing all the energy that was really used and that it wasn't efficient (efficient for them!) and that a bit of increase was to be expected.

But this is not just a bit, it's almost double!! Then she said that since it's colder in winter that the boiler needs a lot more energy to heat the water and that's why we used so much energy. I don't remember being it so cold in February... Isn't this a bit strange...? I thought the boiler would always use the same energy and that if it's colder we just would have to leave it longer to heat the water. I'm wondering if they are increasing the power of the boiler so that we spend more...

Basically, I'm not sure what is going on here.

Does anyone have Bord Gais Heat and experienced a similar problem???

Thanks!

jullins · 06-05-2011 12:05am

for every drop in temp the boiler has to work harder to heat the system, i.e. if you have the boiler on for an hour when its 10degrees it will prob take 2hrs if it is zero degrees to heat the system to the same temp. and it was fairly cold up to the first week of march! its not possible for them to increase the boiler to make it use more gas! just be happy your not on oil, gas is the most efficient and cheapest fuel out there at the moment apart from renewables

Catalpa1 · 06-05-2011 12:14am

Can I ask who or what is Bord Gais Heat I cant find anything on them in Google except a few references on Boards etc askng the same question.
I happened to be on to Custmer Service in Bord Gais today and having read the thread asked them, just in case they were able to offer a discount and according to the nice lady Bord Gais have never heard of them????

boozezela · 11-07-2011 11:56am

sandrewge wrote: »

Does anyone have Bord Gais Heat and experienced a similar problem???

I am in the same situation.

These idiots changed the meter, without considering the layout of the pipes of the apartment, where the old meter was installed.

Since the meter estimates the usage outside of the apartment, it was calculating usage based on the amount of water circulating 24/7 from the new meter to the apartment and back, without any heat being actually used.

To check if you have the same problem:

1 switch off hot water and heating
2 access the meter
3 assuming you have a "Multical 401", push the little triangle button 8 times
4 if the amount of water shown is not zero you are being charged for water circulation, not actual usage

For step 3, see page 20, "current flow rate"

http://kamstrup.com/media/922/5512-109-GB.pdf

Clearly they have installed the new meters without ****ing performing any kind of test.

P.S. The claim that they changed the meters because they were not working well is a bull****: over the phone I was told that they installed the new meter because the one in the apartment was more then 10 years old. The building was built in 2006.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 11-07-2011 1:43pm

I'm totally confused by your post. How can the layout of the pipes have anything to do with the measure of gas consumption. Also, what has water circulating got to do with the flow of gas to the premises? Or is this Bord Gais Heat nothing to do with gas at all and we're all barking up the wrong tree?

boozezela · 11-07-2011 2:37pm

Patricia Shapely Marksman wrote: »

I'm totally confused by your post. How can the layout of the pipes have anything to do with the measure of gas consumption. Also, what has water circulating got to do with the flow of gas to the premises? Or is this Bord Gais Heat nothing to do with gas at all and we're all barking up the wrong tree?

There is no flow of Gas. BG Heat resell hot water mixed with mineral oil, heated by gas burners.

Once such water circulates into your radiators you have heating. When it circulates in the copper coils in your water tank , you have hot water by induction. Once the water has circulated, it goes back to the burners thanks to a return pipe.

Unfortunately the layout of the pipes in my apartment is odd: imagine a Y shaped pipe.

Now connect the upper left "piece" with the water going into the apartment, the upper right piece with the return pipe and the lower piece with the motorised valves.

With the valves open the water would enter the upper left piece of the Y, then enter your system from the lower "piece" of the Y and return back through another pipe connected to the return. Some of the water would still go back in the upper right part of the Y.

With the valves closed there is still circulation on the upper parts of the Y. This is not a problem because if the old meter is in the apartment it would measure usage immediately after the valves.

As I have said, with the above layout when you are not using heating/hot water, the water would enter your apartment, find the valves closed and return back to the boilers. Since the new meter measures usage outside of the apartment before your valves, you will be charged for the water circulating from and to the meter but never actually used.

That's why I was suggesting to check if the meter was showing water circulation or not.

A correct layout would be:

flow (the water going in)>valves>return pipe. With this layout if the valves are closed the meter would show a usage of 0.

Hope this clarifies the matter.

DonegalBonz · 25-09-2011 8:50pm

boozezela wrote: »

There is no flow of Gas. BG Heat resell hot water mixed with mineral oil, heated by gas burners.

Once such water circulates into your radiators you have heating. When it circulates in the copper coils in your water tank , you have hot water by induction. Once the water has circulated, it goes back to the burners thanks to a return pipe.

Unfortunately the layout of the pipes in my apartment is odd: imagine a Y shaped pipe.

Now connect the upper left "piece" with the water going into the apartment, the upper right piece with the return pipe and the lower piece with the motorised valves.

With the valves open the water would enter the upper left piece of the Y, then enter your system from the lower "piece" of the Y and return back through another pipe connected to the return. Some of the water would still go back in the upper right part of the Y.

With the valves closed there is still circulation on the upper parts of the Y. This is not a problem because if the old meter is in the apartment it would measure usage immediately after the valves.

As I have said, with the above layout when you are not using heating/hot water, the water would enter your apartment, find the valves closed and return back to the boilers. Since the new meter measures usage outside of the apartment before your valves, you will be charged for the water circulating from and to the meter but never actually used.

That's why I was suggesting to check if the meter was showing water circulation or not.

A correct layout would be:

flow (the water going in)>valves>return pipe. With this layout if the valves are closed the meter would show a usage of 0.

Hope this clarifies the matter.

Hi boozezela, I'm having a problem identical to what you're describing above with BG Heat, it looks like the meter in the hall is measuring a constant supply of hot water despite the plumber confirming everything is turned off and no water is entering the apartment.

Did you ever get a resolution with BG Heat? Its bother enough trying to just get through to them.

boozezela · 26-09-2011 1:44am

DonegalBonz wrote: »

Hi boozezela, I'm having a problem identical to what you're describing above with BG Heat, it looks like the meter in the hall is measuring a constant supply of hot water despite the plumber confirming everything is turned off and no water is entering the apartment.

Did you ever get a resolution with BG Heat? Its bother enough trying to just get through to them.

The first thing I did was to ring them. They tried to bull**** me over the phone, so my next move was to call the bank and stop payments immediately.

Then I had a plumber involved, which identified the fault, fixed it and wrote a report about the fact that with the existing pipe layout I was being overcharged.

I am still waiting for BG Heat to amend the invoices, since even if the plumber had to intervene in a number of other apartments (they all have the same pipe layout here), according their representative BG Heat "are still investigating the matter".

Of course I am also waiting for them to try to forcefully collect the overcharged invoices, then I will gladly sue their arses off.

DonegalBonz · 26-09-2011 10:57am

I dont have a direct debit set-up so thankfully they'll not be getting another cent until this is sorted. The landlord also works in construction so he knows his way around the plumbing layout and he found that the problem was exactly as you described above, thats hardly a coincidence, so this is most likely a problem with all apartments in my block.

I've given up trying to ring BG Heat anymore after about 15 unanswered calls and no replies to my emails, they initially tried to tell me the problem was with the off-valves and needed replacing by a plumber due to general wear 'n' tear, the landlord and management company have taken it up now so I'm sitting tight until they hear back.

ratlinhouse · 26-09-2011 2:32pm

I am a landlord in Ratlin house My tenant complained that the heting bill was very large.He said a plumber advised him that the central control valve was faulty.
He was correct it was faulty.It was corroded and stuck in the off position.Therefore my client was correct he was not using central heating as it was impossible to do so.
The same plumber then said the Domestic hot water was on continuously .I removed the valve (new and fitted a few days before)and confirmed it was closed .
After investigating the plumbing I discovered there was a bypass(AVDO) fitted.This is connected between the hot water pipe and the cold water pipe and will open automatically allowing water to pass through it.The water passing through it is metered and this is why you have large bills even though you are not using any heat.
The old meter was fitted fitted forward of the bypass valve and did not register the flow through it.
in the old system the overall system meter(back at the boiler)was measuring the actual heating used by tenants plus the water going through the bypass system this probably led them to believe the old apartment meters were faulty.
I have made several checks and can confirm that the meter is clocking up heat even though the apartment is switched off
I had a very good tenant due to high heating bills.
If anyone in Ratlin house would like me to check their system I will oblige

orlaanne · 05-01-2012 8:15pm

Just wondering if anyone got a resolution to this problem? I have nearly the exact problem ratlinhouse describes and I'm being messed about with bills.

ratlinhouse · 05-01-2012 10:34pm

no there is still no resolution to problem
They know they are overcharging but still trying to get paid for heat thay do not supply.
i think this is called extortion

Catalpa1 · 06-01-2012 12:44am

Completely unconnected but are BGE now driven entirely by sales figures no matter how "ficticious"

Bord Gais suspends manager after audit

By Anne-Marie Walsh Industry Correspondent

Thursday January 05 2012

A SENIOR manager at Bord Gais Energy has been suspended after an internal audit found sales figures had been "inflated", the Irish Independent has learned.
It is understood that the employee was suspended just before Christmas after the investigation at the commercial semi-state company uncovered irregularities.
Highly placed sources said that a further investigation into retail sales figures for the past four years at the company has been ordered following the internal audit.
The decision to suspend the senior manager was made after an internal audit revealed serious irregularities in relation to data and information that had been presented to the board.
Bord Gais Energy has blocked the worker from accessing company data and has recovered company property including a laptop and phone.
A number of other staff at the semi-state company have also been interviewed.
The data examined in the audit included Home Team boiler servicing figures, electricity and gas customer losses and 'Big Switch' sales figures and targets.

Lots more on the link

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bord-gais-suspends-manager-after-audit-2980332.html

ratlinhouse · 06-01-2012 1:51am

maybe this issue wont be sorted unless it is brought to the attention to the fraud sqad
or the issue is brought to the attention of the papers im sure an investigative journalist would love to get his teeth into it
Or Joe Duffy ?

boozezela · 06-01-2012 2:43pm

The whole matter is still ****ed up. Also, surprise, removing the bypass will not solve overcharging completely.

When you switch CH on, you will flush all the cold water from the radiator's circuit out of your apartment through the "return" pipe.

The return pipe will cool down sensibly (from 35-40C to 20-25C) and the new meter will pick up the change.
The meter will then calculate the delta (the difference) between the flow and the return temperatures and estimate usage.

What happens is that with the flow temperature being around 70C and the return pipe cooled down to 20C, the delta will be 50C. Now depending on the amount of water the meter is sensing, the estimated usage in KW/h can be anything between 6 and 20.

Usage will gradually drop to more reasonable figures as soon as the return pipe will warm up (it can take up to 15 minutes to happen).
In the meantime the meter will estimate a consumption which is 3 to 20 fold what it should be.

Something similar will happen when you switch CH or HW off, since the meter will not react immediately to the fact that there is no more water going through, but it will keep piling up KW for 10-15 minutes before stopping.

Of course if you also use HW the estimates will be higher, but at least the return pipe should warm up faster though.

An easy solution would be to bill customers by the hour, since according to the manufacturer it is possible to setup the meter to do so, deciding beforehand how much an hour of hot water is worth in KW.

Of course I do not expect such a simple solution to be even considered by BGH.

BTW I have been told off the records that 75% of the old meters was not working properly, so question is: on what basis they were invoicing people all these years? Where they just making figures up?

orlaanne · 06-01-2012 3:35pm

ratlinhouse wrote: »

maybe this issue wont be sorted unless it is brought to the attention to the fraud sqad
or the issue is brought to the attention of the papers im sure an investigative journalist would love to get his teeth into it
Or Joe Duffy ?

I've been keeping all my communication to email since it started to go sour so I have records of it all. But who do we take a complaint to? I don't think the Ombudsman cover them but would the National Consumer Agency.

Btw Ratlin I live in CHS as well and I got BGH to call out to me and see that my meter was recording hot water when nothing was turned on. I think it's a development wide problem. I'm apparently on some sort of a list for when a solution comes available... They discounted my bill from August to October but told me they can't for October to December because "usage and temperatures will cause a fluctuation in kWh’s being generated". I told them I'm not paying for what I don't use, if I didn't dispute them on the bill they would have tried to charge me for the lot!

I live on the 3rd floor, it's very well insulated so I use max 14 hours hot water a week and maybe 3 hours heat if it's cold and yet I'm being charged for usage similar to my last place when we had the heat on 5/6 hours a day.

orlaanne · 06-01-2012 3:40pm

boozezela wrote: »

BTW I have been told off the records that 75% of the old meters was not working properly, so question is: on what basis they were invoicing people all these years? Where they just making figures up?

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. I lived in another BG heat supplied apt before I moved to this one, with ESB at least I could almost guess what I would be billed each month but with this lot it's like they pluck the figures out of thin air.

boozezela · 09-01-2012 8:56am

Just wondering: how many people had their bills discontinued?
I am asking because BGH never stopped invoicing me, even if I am "on the list".

orlaanne · 09-01-2012 1:11pm

I haven't had mine discontinued as such. They sent me the bill last week and said it would come out on Jan 13th. When I emailed to dispute it they said they could put a hold on the bill until a solution presented itself but they wanted 50% of it now.

We still haven't reached an agreement and I haven't had a response to my last email. I'm considering canceling the direct debit before the bill is due to come out if I don't hear back.

boozezela · 09-01-2012 1:20pm

orlaanne wrote: »

I'm considering canceling the direct debit before the bill is due to come out if I don't hear back.

If you don't cancel the DD and end up paying extra, it will probably take months to get your money back.
Chances are that BGH will want to carry what you paid extra as a credit in the invoices to come, so I would cancel it ASAP if I were you.

Also I do not see them trying to enforce the payment, since the way they estimate usage is flawed in the first place.

orlaanne · 16-01-2012 1:43pm

More from them today. They've put a hold on my bill and they said they'll have the results of the investigation "soon".

Lots of avoiding my yes or no questions, some real politicians in the making over there!

DonegalBonz · 16-01-2012 6:07pm

orlaanne, I would definitly cancel your direct debit asap, I expect it would be a nightmare to try and get any money owed to you back due to overcharging. How can they expect to receive 50% of a bill that is in dispute??

I havnt paid them a cent since a good few months before christmas and will not be payiong anything until BG Heat can provide an accurate reading. I'm still receiving bi-monthly bills with the balance carried forward and another 1200+ kWh tagged on each time.

boozezela · 24-01-2012 9:30pm

I was thinking to sue them for good.
Anyone has a solicitor already familiar with the matter here?

dub45 · 25-01-2012 1:06am

DonegalBonz wrote: »

orlaanne, I would definitly cancel your direct debit asap, I expect it would be a nightmare to try and get any money owed to you back due to overcharging. How can they expect to receive 50% of a bill that is in dispute??

I havnt paid them a cent since a good few months before christmas and will not be payiong anything until BG Heat can provide an accurate reading. I'm still receiving bi-monthly bills with the balance carried forward and another 1200+ kWh tagged on each time.

The existence of a dd on an account is not a carte blanche for a company to debit you as they may wish.

The basic rights of a dd payer are here with plenty of other information to be found no the site.

http://www.ipso.ie/section/section/YourRightsasaPayer

DonegalBonz · 25-01-2012 4:29pm

dub45 wrote: »

The existence of a dd on an account is not a carte blanche for a company to debit you as they may wish.

The basic rights of a dd payer are here with plenty of other information to be found no the site.

http://www.ipso.ie/section/section/YourRightsasaPayer

I didnt know about bullet point 3, I had a run in with a mobile broadband provider a year back who debited a huge bill due to roaming charges despite me never leaving Donegal, admittedly I was on the border but still in the South, the company in question claimed they could only refund half which still came nowhere near the expected bill.

DonegalBonz · 01-02-2012 4:23pm

Just a quick check to see if anybody on here has had any success in getting a resolutionn of any sort from BG Heat yet?

Legislator · 02-02-2012 12:38pm

If you are paying your bills by direct debit you must be advised in advance of the date and the amount that is due. If you are unhappy with the amount you can instruct your bank to 'refuse' the direct debit. Your bank will return the DD to BG. This does not cancel the DD mandate but allows you time to negotiate with BG.

DonegalBonz · 08-02-2012 6:01pm

Another week of no response from BG Heat. Has anybody been in contact with them and can provide an update on this proposed "solution" they've been working on?

orlaanne · 21-02-2012 1:54pm

DonegalBonz wrote: »

orlaanne, I would definitly cancel your direct debit asap, I expect it would be a nightmare to try and get any money owed to you back due to overcharging. How can they expect to receive 50% of a bill that is in dispute??

I havnt paid them a cent since a good few months before christmas and will not be payiong anything until BG Heat can provide an accurate reading. I'm still receiving bi-monthly bills with the balance carried forward and another 1200+ kWh tagged on each time.

So as it turns out, after assuring me they wouldn't take anything from my account, they took the direct debit! After a very angry phone call the bill was refunded to my account and I had a very apologetic Bord Gais rep on the phone assuring me it wouldn't happen until "a resolution" was met.

It's a month later and no contact from them, next bill should be in the post soon so when I get that I'll chase them again.

jontenoy · 23-02-2012 7:59pm

I am having a problem in Spencer House, IFSC with the district heating from BG Heat
Any idea who is a good plumber for this ?

boozezela · 08-03-2012 1:42pm

boozezela wrote: »

I was thinking to sue them for good.
Anyone has a solicitor already familiar with the matter here?

The new meter got damaged and stopped metering a couple of weeks ago, the bill which came today in the mail shows a different (higher) usage count, which could mean either that 1) BG Heat are estimating usage or that that 2) BG Heat are pulling usage estimates out of thin air.

So I will ask again: anyone can suggest a solicitor in D1/D2 that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? Because I am tired of waiting for a "solution" while the arrears pile up.

jontenoy · 08-03-2012 6:33pm

I changed the motorised valve on the hot water circuit.... €65 / 30 minutes and the problem solved.
The old one was not closing properly

KingKenny77 · 14-03-2012 5:34pm

might be unrelated to the current discussion but I'm thinking of getting a Hometeam boiler service. the trouble is i know of several people unhappy with the 60 day labour guarantee, i.e if you get the work done in good weather and don't use it until it gets cold, but it doesn't work correctly, the customer gets caught to pay up a second time for the visit and repairs. hardly seems fair.
Is this legal / good practice? (If so i'll wait until October!)

Whyner · 14-03-2012 9:59pm

Just got a whopper bill so time to investigate

First off - why do I have 2 Meter numbers?

First row is XXXXXX
Second row is E6SXXXXXXXXXXXX

The second is on my meter but don't know what the first one is?

Sorry, didn't want to start new thread

Dietsquirt · 27-03-2012 2:16am

fair point

DonegalBonz · 22-05-2012 3:23pm

Its been all quiet on here for the last couple of months so i'm wondering did anybody get a solution? More likely the silence is due to a complete lack of communication and solution from BG Heat.

After being told weeks and weeks ago, over the phone and by email, that BG Heat would be issuing a letter, the very next day, detailing the problem and solution, I still havnt received a thing, well we have received another bill, the outstanding amount now stands at almost €1000 :eek:

The comsumption for this period was a fantastical 1700 kwh.

I'm going to contact the National Consumer Agency to make sure that I have taken every step to ensure that I have everything in order on my side, i've contacted BG Heat on numerous occassions to discuss, kept all correspondence including the mails where the admit that they are looking into a solution (admitting the problem) and also sent a registered letter detailing how I am willing to pay any bills that are calcultaed using "accurate actual reads".

After that I'm not sure how far this has to go to reach a resolution. Are BG Heat governed by the Commission for Energy Regulation? Has anybody taken any other action against BG Heat?

barradepaor · 20-06-2012 4:45pm

Hi,

I'm living in the same apartment complex and have the same issue now for the past year and a half, we stopped paying our bill over a year ago now, turned off the heat at the valve etc etc.

We get a bill every 2-3 months, usually nearly exactly the same as the previous time despite never using the heat in the apartment.

To make matters worse I've also contacted BG Heat on numerous occasions looking for them to send out an engineer, they've said they would a couple of times...it has never happened. They did howver send out an instruction manual for the heating in the apartment, which clearly shows that my heating is infact off.

The outstanding bill is approx 500 euro at this stage.

On a stranger note, I also happen to know a couple of people in BG Networks & BG Energy, neither of them have ever heard of BG Heat and there def is not a BG Heat department in either company.

Has anyone ever manage to get this resolved in any way?

DonegalBonz · 24-06-2012 3:02pm

barradepaor wrote: »

Hi,

I'm living in the same apartment complex and have the same issue now for the past year and a half, we stopped paying our bill over a year ago now, turned off the heat at the valve etc etc.

We get a bill every 2-3 months, usually nearly exactly the same as the previous time despite never using the heat in the apartment.

To make matters worse I've also contacted BG Heat on numerous occasions looking for them to send out an engineer, they've said they would a couple of times...it has never happened. They did howver send out an instruction manual for the heating in the apartment, which clearly shows that my heating is infact off.

The outstanding bill is approx 500 euro at this stage.

On a stranger note, I also happen to know a couple of people in BG Networks & BG Energy, neither of them have ever heard of BG Heat and there def is not a BG Heat department in either company.

Has anyone ever manage to get this resolved in any way?

I've exhausted all avenues of resolution with BG Heat, I've had countless calls, numerous emails and registered letters unanswered. They've repeatedly said they'll advise of a resolution but nothing ever came of it.

The fact they are using a Bord Gais email address at least indicates they have some relationship with BG, this would mean they are hopefully in some way governed by the Commission for Energy Regulator. I'll have to take this complaint up with them now as BG Heat have done nothing with this.

Hopefully the more people that complain to the regulator might get this addressed because its been going on for over a year with us now too.

orlaanne · 05-07-2012 2:28pm

Hi everyone

So my lease is up next month and we haven't made any agreement to continue on with the landlord, if they want more money and won't budge we'll have to move.

Anyway I relayed this info to BG Heat and I was told that there is still no resolution to this investigation and that at some point there will be more works required but no idea when etc.

I was asked to pay up half my bill and the standing charges for the year to settle up but I'm not sure if I should do this.

Has anyone contacted the national consumer agency over this? I just want to pay what I owe and I have no idea if half is too much!

orlaanne · 06-07-2012 10:27am

So I apparently I got this wrong because I couldn't understand what they actually wanted in the email, they want 50% of what I owe because they are calling this the "undisputed" part and then eventually, some time in the next thousand or so years I will be told what I owe for the disputed part.

I've told them I wanted to contact the CER and the NCA to get advice first, surely there must be a time limit on how long this is allowed to continue, it's been nearly a year!

Balinov · 11-07-2012 9:11pm

Hi, has anyone came to a resolution - or at least close to it? I live in IFSC to, Customs House Sq bldg, suffering with high bills for a year now. Plumber came to us 3 times last fall, air bleeding valve check, etc, but said nothing looks wrong inside the apt. BG Heat was first contacted in FEb as their bill said we've been using 2900kWh for Dec-Jan period, which is ffs an unbeliavable amount. Previous winter, with minuses and ****load of snow the heat usage for the same apt (25+ set on the thermostat when we're at home) was less than 1/3 of this...First used the [email]info@...email[/email] to make a dispute, then someone replied they gonna send an engineer to check ( <SNIP>>>> BGE Heat Coordinator>>> BGE Heat>>> Bord Gáis Energy>>> Foley Street,Dublin) we made ourself available couple of times, but all their promises failed. Then I cancelled the DD + notified the same lady by email (landlord was cc'd as well) Next bill came in April, 260 something overdue + another 250 something new heat usage. For f**k sake, we switched off the heating in the main digital controller then set the termostat to the lowest. Besides since we started to have the heating issue only the living room radiator was working, then we simply switched it off, suspecting we're going to get skyhigh bill some day.

Landlord only said to contact housekeeper, our bad luck, the nice guy on site is on long term sick leave, his replacement drinker didn't know a thing about the utility systems in the apartment block...Then we contacted the Landlord again (who's a nice and helpful guy at the end, we live here for almost 4 yrs0),he sent an email to the management company's director, not a single **** was given to that email, not suprised. Neighbours had the same previous winter, that time the houskeeper fixed smthg, but that's not an option now, since the useless backup of him.

Have a colleague living in the same building, they're having the same sort of issue, no resolution there either afaik.

One day guys from Airtricity showed up, trying to switch us to their service. Told them we're no with you, buying the 230V since Oct/Nov. Then they've tried to made us switch for heating. Told them your colleague said it's technically not possible, because the way the heating system was designed in the block. Then they said they know about heating issues in the same house (it's a big block, probably close to 100 apt's) and actually they're waiting for some1 from the management company to have the meters checked. Long story short, they've promised they'll show up laters the same day as they're expecting to figure out what's wrong here....They never showed up.

Just sent a reminder to both BG/Landlord, but if nothing happens we have to move out asap. Does anyone have an another contact, supervisor, manager as I want to escalate this whole story at BGH? OR any recommendation where the hell to go? We should have the next bi-monthly bill received already, but nothing in the box.Sure I'll have double outstanding, which I'm going to dispute.

Thanks
Balionv

worried man · 24-07-2012 2:24pm

Hi

I justmoved into Custom Hse Squareover a month ago and was issued my first bill from this crowd, a whopping€664.60 for just over a 3 week period. And that was an estimated bill!!!!!...

I originallythought it was a simple mistake and it will get sorted asap but as I rang andemailed and no answer, I did a quick search for them on web and suddenly I startedto become worried and when I found this tread I am now vey very worried.

What goingon here, is the whole development in a mess from this crowd, there just seemsto be one woman who looks after this. No customer service just her

Arelandlords made aware of this crowd as far as I know we can not change, it’sthem or nothing. Also when I was setting up I paid €150 refundable depositwhich I thought was fine as I thought BG Heat was associated to Bord Gais butfrom reading below I'm no so sure but the girl I was dealing with has an@bordgais email address.

What arepeople doing , I’m thinking I’m just going to calculate my own bills from nowon and cancel my DD ( have to wait for first DD to go through and then get Bankto Unpaid it – before I cancel as I was told by bank I can not cancel untilfirst one goes through, as at present there is nothing to cancel…….which istotally inconvenient as I do not trust this crowd from what I’m reading.) andjust do a credit transfer for x amount every two months,

DonegalBonz · 24-07-2012 2:49pm

Hi Worried Man, its looking very much like this is effecting alot of people in CHS, I had my landlord report this to the management company who informed him that this was between the tenant and BG Heat, the landlord tried to get some info from BG Heat himself but was told they couldnt speak to him, despite me sending on a letter of authorisation for him to discuss our account.

Perhaps now that this effects numerous apartments the property management company may need to reconsider this a complex-wide problem and seek some dialogue with BG Heat.

In the meantime I've continued to take this up with the BG Heat Rep who informs me that "work is ongoing". I will be taking my complaint to the Commision for Energy Regulator now as my emails and calls are getting nowhere.

dub45 · 24-07-2012 9:35pm

worried man wrote: »

Hi

I justmoved into Custom Hse Squareover a month ago and was issued my first bill from this crowd, a whopping€664.60 for just over a 3 week period. And that was an estimated bill!!!!!...

I originallythought it was a simple mistake and it will get sorted asap but as I rang andemailed and no answer, I did a quick search for them on web and suddenly I startedto become worried and when I found this tread I am now vey very worried.

What goingon here, is the whole development in a mess from this crowd, there just seemsto be one woman who looks after this. No customer service just her

Arelandlords made aware of this crowd as far as I know we can not change, it’sthem or nothing. Also when I was setting up I paid €150 refundable depositwhich I thought was fine as I thought BG Heat was associated to Bord Gais butfrom reading below I'm no so sure but the girl I was dealing with has an@bordgais email address.

What arepeople doing , I’m thinking I’m just going to calculate my own bills from nowon and cancel my DD ( have to wait for first DD to go through and then get Bankto Unpaid it – before I cancel as I was told by bank I can not cancel untilfirst one goes through, as at present there is nothing to cancel…….which istotally inconvenient as I do not trust this crowd from what I’m reading.) andjust do a credit transfer for x amount every two months,

What you have been told by your bank is utter nonsense and demonstrates once again the abject lack of training in the dd system for most bank employees.

While the dd system is a lousy system the bill payer still has rights under it and signing a dd mandate or instruction does not give over control of your account to a company.

Under the so called "dd guarantee" you can cancel a dd at anytime by notifying your bank - there is nothing anywhere in the dd scheme rules that says a first dd has to "hit" your account.

Check http://www.ipso.ie/section/section/YourRightsasaPayer and you will see two points relevant to your particular situation:

You can cancel the Direct Debit Instruction by writing in good time to your bank

You can request your bank to refuse a direct debit payment on your account up to close of business the day before the direct debit is due to be paid from your account

So even if you dont want to cancel the dd instruction you can request the bank to refuse a specific dd.

Also there is a provision in the dd scheme rules that a disputed amount should not be debited but like most of the safeguards in the dd scheme this is largely ignored by Companies who basically can do what they like under the dd scheme without any fear of sanction.

What has probably happened in your case is that you have signed up for the ironically named dd plus system - this system had no pluses whatsoever for the bill payer. Under this you are only entitled to 7 days notice and the companies hold the documentation. This causes confusion for bank branches and thats probably why they are claiming that there has to be a payment before they can do anything/

However the inadequacies of the dd + system should not affect the customer and if the banks cannot operate it then they should not have agreed to it.

Unfortunately due to the lack of training of bank staff in the dd system you usually have to equip yourself with the scheme details available on the ipso website, before visiting your branch.

There was a thread a while ago where a poster was trying to stop a dd coming through and it took the involvement of the dd scheme manager to get it sorted out - IPSO ( 01 6636740) If your branch continue to refuse to accept your instructions contact the dd manager at IPSO.

DonegalBonz · 01-08-2012 4:44pm

I see Bord Gais Energy Heat have put up a notice in the lobby of my block saying that maintenance and repair work will be commencing soon. This, they comically say, comes after "ongoing monitoring" highlighted the need for some repairs.

Of course it was the "ongoing monitoring" that highlighted this :rolleyes: , not the 15+ months of customers repeatedly calling their customer service line with the exact same problem.

At least at last its some movement on their part to address this.

orlaanne · 26-09-2012 2:23pm

For all the CHS people waiting for a solution I got an email from them today saying that the AGM in November is their deadline for resolution. I'll commence holding my breath...

I'm still going ahead with complaining to the CER, they've had over a year, it's crazy how long we've had to wait.

Balinov · 08-01-2013 11:31am

Hi, does anyone know what's the latest status of the BGH vs. Customs House Square dispute? I'm bombarding one of their contact with emails, had few luck to be honest..Just the BS, they're in negotiation with CHS's Management company, but I had no luck in getting any further details....was talking to the new building manager, he doesn't know that much further, just the discussion between this two beloved company includes topics, related to overcharging...

I've involved my landlord, but he doesn't seem to have any further luck with this stuff either...I've cancelled my DD since February, 2012 and now my BG Heat bill is close to a grand, incl. overdue payments...

Does anyone know whom to contact at BG Heat for a resolution? I'm in contact with a women called Serena, i'm copying info@boardgais.ie with my emails,hoping someone at higher lvl will accidentally pick up the matter.

I've offered them to pay 50% of the outstandings, but didn't even got a reply to that ...

thanks & cheres

boozezela · 08-01-2013 8:21pm

Balinov wrote: »

Does anyone know whom to contact at BG Heat for a resolution? I'm in contact with a women called Serena, i'm copying info@boardgais.ie with my emails,hoping someone at higher lvl will accidentally pick up the matter.

Oh yeah Serena. The one that stated that the old digital meters in the apartments were 10 year old (the building is 6 years old) and that they were slowed down by rust.

No comment...

Balinov · 08-01-2013 9:22pm

boozezela wrote: »

Oh yeah Serena. The one that stated that the old digital meters in the apartments were 10 year old (the building is 6 years old) and that they were slowed down by rust.

No comment...

rusty digital meters? OMFG:pac:

btw, she answered to my email today stating the following, guess that's partially BS...
"
As soon as I have a resolution to the problem in hand I will communicate it to you, one of the managers called me earlier to tell me there is a follow up meeting to the AGM called this month to go over the last proposal, I don’t know anymore than that at present. Any deadlines or dates advised to me which in turn I tell you are never met due to the complexity of the issue, this is why I am reluctant to give you any deadlines.
As I advised works will be starting but dates and schedules etc are not confirmed yet,"

trying to get our landlord involved in deeper details..hope that's going to have some kind of resulition

anyone paid a partial bill yet?

orlaanne · 17-01-2013 6:45pm

Not paid a penny until they can show me how much I used, I don't even live there anymore now, this is going on since Autumn 2011! I emailed the building manager and he didn't even respond to me so lucky you. Tried to call Joe Walsh who is head of sales and no response.

gawker · 17-01-2013 9:49pm

Wow - I just moved into Custom House Square and this thread has scared the crap out of me. They do seem impossible to get in touch with, but finally got through to them and they want me to set up a direct debit

I'm not sure if that's a good idea going by what people say here.

Is there still an issue? Are there no alternatives for us when it comes to heat?

Bord Gais Heat - Overcharged?!

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