450 job losses announced at Iarnród Éireann

markpb · 05-06-2012 12:19pm

kingshankly wrote: »

I find it baffling in these hard times that some people get satisfaction of people loosing their jobs.

Only a bitter few actually want people to be made redundant. Most people would prefer their taxes to be spent efficiently, hiring civil and public servants were it makes sense to and not just to keep people in jobs.

If Irish Rail can provide the same level of service with less staff, it makes sense to do so. Continuing to keep them in employment, running a loss and then asking the government for a very expensive subsidy is not a sane way to run a business or country.

corktina · 05-06-2012 12:44pm

I wouldn't want anyone to lose their job but if they are truely redundant, they should be moved to other areas, revenue protectioon springs to mind or market development. If theres no work for them , they should go.

dowlingm · 05-06-2012 1:37pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

the 002 operates every hour between 7am and 9pm then at 11pm 3am and 5am. Compare that to 4 trains a day and see how vital people think this deadweight service is to the country!

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1300287394-2.pdf

The railway line is slow and just too expensive to keep open and operating when the passenger numbers are not high enough to pay for the staff and stations on the line.

How fortunate Bus Eireann are that they have never been obliged to justify the disruption and expense of shoving the N/M11 through one of the most scenic areas of the country.

end of the road · 05-06-2012 2:38pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Compare that to 4 trains a day and see how vital people think this deadweight service is to the country!

its not our fault the service isn't good enough its IE's fault they want to drive everyone away.

foggy_lad wrote: »

The railway line is slow and just too expensive to keep open and operating when the passenger numbers are not high enough to pay for the staff and stations on the line.

same could have been said for sligo at one stage, look how its fortunes turned around. this line will not be allowed to close, were not that stupid this time. if the fair well special comes round i'l be out with that banner.

elvis jones · 06-06-2012 6:47pm

kingshankly wrote: »

I find it baffling in these hard times that some people get satisfaction of people loosing their jobs.

Do you deal with Irish Rail staff on a daily basis ?? I've honestly left stuff in the toilet thats more useful.

bazza1 · 06-06-2012 7:13pm

elvis jones wrote: »

Do you deal with Irish Rail staff on a daily basis ?? I've honestly left stuff in the toilet thats more useful.

Sounds like you left the best part of yourself in the toilet!

elvis jones · 06-06-2012 7:21pm

bazza1 wrote: »

Sounds like you left the best part of yourself in the toilet!

What a comeback:rolleyes:

Having spent over 15,000 with Irish Rail via my commuting i feel i'm well placed to say at least 85 to 90% of the time the staff are unwilling to help, have any basic knowledge the timetables and the only thing they excel at is shoulder shrugging when asked a question.

end of the road · 06-06-2012 8:32pm

elvis jones wrote: »

What a comeback

Having spent over 15,000 with Irish Rail via my commuting i feel i'm well placed to say at least 85 to 90% of the time the staff are unwilling to help, have any basic knowledge the timetables and the only thing they excel at is shoulder shrugging when asked a question.

maybe the management have a list of things they can and can't reply to, or can and can't say, or can and can't do?

Judgement Day · 06-06-2012 8:40pm

elvis jones wrote: »

What a comeback:rolleyes:

Having spent over 15,000 with Irish Rail via my commuting i feel i'm well placed to say at least 85 to 90% of the time the staff are unwilling to help, have any basic knowledge the timetables and the only thing they excel at is shoulder shrugging when asked a question.

Having spent 40+ years travelling on Irish railways, and with little time for the organisation that is CIE, I find your remarks offensive as well completely over the top. As in all large organisations (public or private) there is a small percentage of wasters but to tar all the staff with the same brush the way you have is plainly nonsense.

elvis jones · 06-06-2012 9:05pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Having spent 40+ years travelling on Irish railways, and with little time for the organisation that is CIE, I find your remarks offensive as well completely over the top. As in all large organisations (public or private) there is a small percentage of wasters but to tar all the staff with the same brush the way you have is plainly nonsense.

I'm offended by the price i pay for the service and the service that i get for that money.

elvis jones · 06-06-2012 9:07pm

end of the road wrote: »

maybe the management have a list of things they can and can't reply to, or can and can't say, or can and can't do?

Sorry, why is this train late ?

Why are we stopped for 20 min with no information announced ?

Why is this train so late in boarding ?

loyatemu · 06-06-2012 10:05pm

end of the road wrote: »

thats fine, but if thats the case why keep it open? look i'm not suggesting it should be closed but if the locals are going to graystones then whats the point of it being open at all? how come only some trains stop and others don't? obviously people are using it which is the reason its still open.

Commuter trains stop there, Intercities do not. The distinction between Commuter and InterCity is a bit vague on the Rosslare line though. Kilcoole used to only have one train a day in each direction IIRC.

As you point out there was a station at Newcastle (which actually had a building) which was closed, I don't know how Kilcoole survived.

gsxr1 · 06-06-2012 10:31pm

elvis jones wrote: »

I'm offended by the price i pay for the service and the service that i get for that money.

May I ask how many years commuting you have benefited from, for you 15k?

Losty Dublin · 06-06-2012 10:34pm

loyatemu wrote: »

As you point out there was a station at Newcastle (which actually had a building) which was closed, I don't know how Kilcoole survived.

It didn't; it was closed but it reopened in 1980.

end of the road · 06-06-2012 11:01pm

loyatemu wrote: »

Commuter trains stop there, Intercities do not. The distinction between Commuter and InterCity is a bit vague on the Rosslare line though. Kilcoole used to only have one train a day in each direction IIRC.

As you point out there was a station at Newcastle (which actually had a building) which was closed, I don't know how Kilcoole survived.[/QUOTE]

i didn't mention newcastle per se. i actually meant all the closed stations along the line, so i would have included it (if you get my drift) but thanks for answering.

n97 mini · 06-06-2012 11:21pm

kingshankly wrote: »

I find it baffling in these hard times that some people get satisfaction of people loosing their jobs.

It's not really when those losing their jobs are perceived to be less than hard working, or are perceived to be standing in the way of progress.

Not everyone deserves the job they're in.

Losty Dublin · 06-06-2012 11:37pm

n97 mini wrote: »

It's not really when those losing their jobs are perceived to be less than hard working, or are perceived to be standing in the way of progress.

Not everyone deserves the job they're in.

Ah yeah, the good old perception of state or semi state staff being underworked

foggy_lad · 07-06-2012 7:59am

One thing I read or heard from the reports about these job cuts and cutting back at Irish rail was that staff had an uncertified sick leave entitlement of 7 days per year, that is 7 days they can ring up sick without having to go to the doctor and get a note to prove they are sick. Most other jobs even in the civil service and HSE have at most 5 uncertified days per year.there are possibilities to cut back on certain salaries without the need for as many job losses but the unions of those doing the bulk of the overtime and getting the bulk of the perks would never allow their members to take a hit like that so others must be sacrificed!

Cookie_Monster · 07-06-2012 9:25am

I thought 12 was the standard per legislation but no more than 2 in a row without a doctors cert, no?

Hilly Bill · 07-06-2012 4:28pm

elvis jones wrote: »

What a comeback:rolleyes:

Having spent over 15,000 with Irish Rail via my commuting i feel i'm well placed to say at least 85 to 90% of the time the staff are unwilling to help, have any basic knowledge the timetables and the only thing they excel at is shoulder shrugging when asked a question.

You have spent 15,000 what?

elvis jones · 07-06-2012 4:29pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You have spent 15,000 what?

Euro...........did you think it was magic beans

Hilly Bill · 07-06-2012 4:32pm

n97 mini wrote: »

It's not really when those losing their jobs are perceived to be less than hard working, or are perceived to be standing in the way of progress.

Not everyone deserves the job they're in.

Can you tell me how you came up with that ? or are you just making it up for effect?

Hilly Bill · 07-06-2012 4:34pm

elvis jones wrote: »

Euro...........did you think it was magic beans

15,000 euro? I think i would have believed the magic beans quicker.

Hilly Bill · 07-06-2012 4:38pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

One thing I read or heard from the reports about these job cuts and cutting back at Irish rail was that staff had an uncertified sick leave entitlement of 7 days per year, that is 7 days they can ring up sick without having to go to the doctor and get a note to prove they are sick. Most other jobs even in the civil service and HSE have at most 5 uncertified days per year.there are possibilities to cut back on certain salaries without the need for as many job losses but the unions of those doing the bulk of the overtime and getting the bulk of the perks would never allow their members to take a hit like that so others must be sacrificed!

What are you saying here Foggy? Take what hit?

elvis jones · 07-06-2012 4:40pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

15,000 euro? I think i would have believed the magic beans quicker.

Really look at the price of an annual ticket from Laois to Heuston and then multiply it by 7.

Hilly Bill · 07-06-2012 4:42pm

Tell me how much that is in magic beans.

Victor · 07-06-2012 4:45pm

elvis jones wrote: »

Do you deal with Irish Rail staff on a daily basis ?? I've honestly left stuff in the toilet thats more useful.

No need to be insulting

bazza1 wrote: »

Sounds like you left the best part of yourself in the toilet!

Play nice

hardCopy · 07-06-2012 5:05pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

No Foggy Lad having a mouth on you and asking the person in your pre-booked seat to vacate it is a way to guarantee your seat.

Would that it were so easy. I tried this on a Galway train once. A couple were sitting in our reserved group of four seats. The woman just stared out the window and refused to acknowledge me completely, I eventually got a response from the "gentleman" which was something along the lines of:

Me: "Excuse me I think you're in our seats"
Arsehole: "Who says it's your seat?"
Me: "It's written on my ticket"
Arsehole: "CIE don't give a f*ck"
Me: "Well I do, I've reserved these seats, it's written on my ticket"
Arsehole: "You're wasting your time, they don't give a f*ck"
Me: "Are you going to move?"
Arsehole: "They couldn't give a f*ck, I don't give a f*ck....."

Eventually my girlfriend and her two friends were so mortified they just moved to the next carriage.

bazza1 · 07-06-2012 5:14pm

Victor wrote: »

No need to be insulting

Play nice

Sorry Victor. As I am an IE employee I took grave exception to the remark. I withdraw my remark.

gsxr1 · 07-06-2012 7:46pm

elvis jones wrote: »

Really look at the price of an annual ticket from Laois to Heuston and then multiply it by 7.

So you got 7 full years commuting (in comfort) for your 15k.

You are getting to Laois to Dublin and back each day for well under a tenner at todays annual ticket price, not one bought at 7 years ago prices.

And you think you are being screwed?

kingshankly · 07-06-2012 9:06pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

One thing I read or heard from the reports about these job cuts and cutting back at Irish rail was that staff had an uncertified sick leave entitlement of 7 days per year, that is 7 days they can ring up sick without having to go to the doctor and get a note to prove they are sick. Most other jobs even in the civil service and HSE have at most 5 uncertified days per year.there are possibilities to cut back on certain salaries without the need for as many job losses but the unions of those doing the bulk of the overtime and getting the bulk of the perks would never allow their members to take a hit like that so others must be sacrificed!

But unlike other places these days can't precede a rest day or follow a rest day

kingshankly · 07-06-2012 9:09pm

hardCopy wrote: »

Would that it were so easy. I tried this on a Galway train once. A couple were sitting in our reserved group of four seats. The woman just stared out the window and refused to acknowledge me completely, I eventually got a response from the "gentleman" which was something along the lines of:

Me: "Excuse me I think you're in our seats"
Arsehole: "Who says it's your seat?"
Me: "It's written on my ticket"
Arsehole: "CIE don't give a f*ck"
Me: "Well I do, I've reserved these seats, it's written on my ticket"
Arsehole: "You're wasting your time, they don't give a f*ck"
Me: "Are you going to move?"
Arsehole: "They couldn't give a f*ck, I don't give a f*ck....."

Eventually my girlfriend and her two friends were so mortified they just moved to the next carriage.

Was the place card with your name above the seat if it was its the arseholes fault if not its Irish rails

foggy_lad · 07-06-2012 9:14pm

kingshankly wrote: »

But unlike other places these days can't precede a rest day or follow a rest day

Afaik there is no job in the civil service or semi-state where you can take an uncertified day be on a monday or friday (or directly before or after rest days if these are not Saturday and Sunday).

Most civil service jobs have a rolling system/limit, afaik it is 15 uncertified days over any 3 year period. You can also take two days if required but after that you need a sick-note from a doctor certifying you unfit for work due to illness or infection etc

Hilly Bill · 07-06-2012 9:48pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Afaik there is no job in the civil service or semi-state where you can take an uncertified day be on a monday or friday (or directly before or after rest days if these are not Saturday and Sunday).

Most civil service jobs have a rolling system/limit, afaik it is 15 uncertified days over any 3 year period. You can also take two days if required but after that you need a sick-note from a doctor certifying you unfit for work due to illness or infection etc

and whats your point?

Judgement Day · 07-06-2012 9:51pm

kingshankly wrote: »

Was the place card with your name above the seat if it was its the arseholes fault if not its Irish rails

Surely it's up to Irish Rail to make sure that passengers are able to sit at their reserved seats without an unpleasant situation developing?

07-06-2012 9:54pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Surely it's up to Irish Rail to make sure that passengers are able to sit at their reserved seats without an unpleasant situation developing?

How could Irish Rail make sure that some numpty won't decide to ignore a seat reservation? I can only guess that they would have someone on board to enforce seat reservation.

kingshankly · 07-06-2012 9:59pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Surely it's up to Irish Rail to make sure that passengers are able to sit at their reserved seats without an unpleasant situation developing?

It is off course but unless their alerted to the problem the are unaware. Passengers can make mistakes and not realise their in a reserved seat.
Passengers who have reserved seats also need to complain but most of the time they just take the next available seat

Cookie_Monster · 07-06-2012 10:05pm

kingshankly wrote: »

It is off course but unless their alerted to the problem the are unaware. Passengers can make mistakes and not realise their in a reserved seat.
Passengers who have reserved seats also need to complain but most of the time they just take the next available seat

but who can you make aware on most trains?

n97 mini · 07-06-2012 10:07pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Ah yeah, the good old perception of state or semi state staff being underworked

No need to turn this into another public sector bashing exercise

kingshankly · 07-06-2012 10:10pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but who can you make aware on most trains?

Well as far as im aware there is no driver only trains that you can book seats(I may be wrong) so there will bea guard/host/ticket checker on board

Cookie_Monster · 07-06-2012 10:15pm

kingshankly wrote: »

Well as far as im aware there is no driver only trains that you can book seats(I may be wrong) so there will bea guard/host/ticket checker on board

I'm not sure but I thought it was mentioned earlier in thread that only Mk4s have a train attendant and the 22ks didn't, maybe I'm wrong though

kingshankly · 07-06-2012 10:39pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'm not sure but I thought it was mentioned earlier in thread that only Mk4s have a train attendant and the 22ks didn't, maybe I'm wrong though

It depends on the service not the train a 22 going to Sligo will have a guard yet a 22 going to Drogheda will not

flyingsnail · 07-06-2012 10:46pm

kingshankly wrote: »

It depends on the service not the train a 22 going to Sligo will have a guard yet a 22 going to Drogheda will not

I am sorry but you are wrong, it is entirely dependant on the stock. The only stock left with actual guards is the De dietrich on the enterprise. The host on a mk 4 is not a guard.

foggy_lad · 07-06-2012 10:53pm

kingshankly wrote: »

Well as far as im aware there is no driver only trains that you can book seats(I may be wrong) so there will bea guard/host/ticket checker on board

They may be on board but that does not mean they are available to passengers with complaints or other issues, and expecting passengers to use an emergency intercom to contact the driver (as was suggested in another thread) over issues like no power in the sockets or someone in your reserved seat seems a bit strange even for Irish Rail. Passengers need to be looked after on board trains or they will move in large numbers onto buses where there is at least one member of staff to every 53 passengers!

studiorat · 08-06-2012 12:29am

Karsini wrote: »

How could Irish Rail make sure that some numpty won't decide to ignore a seat reservation? I can only guess that they would have someone on board to enforce seat reservation.

Yup! Hit the emergency button! That way you won't have to squeeze the length of the train in the wrong direction looking for the steward. Then you say, "Excuse me can you please remove this wrinkly coffin dodger from my seat".

If Irish Rail cannot regulate the seating reservation why do they have it at all? It's a little thing but it's adds up, if I reserve a seat I don't expect to have to make sure the seat is free myself. Like a said a small thing, but it's another small thing.

The suggestion by some that the customer should have to do this themselves it is indicative of the mutton dressed as lamb situation that is Irish Rail. The inter city services seem to think they are running Concord or something.

The current system for the customer is inflexible and obstructive. Since there are so many alternatives which are as quick or quicker and more convient and pleasant to use it's surprising that the system isn't in a worse state.

I was dropping over €100 a week on trains, eventually I gave up and began using private bus services about 1/10th of the cost. The IE managent could certainly learn a thing or two from them.

I can identify with the people who have the railway in their blood, my grandfather was a railway man, neighbors, relations, in-laws; I've always loved the romance of train travel. I hate to see it going the way it is, but using the train is becoming a completely impractical form of transport compared to others.

The kicker is that Irelands heyday of rail transport seems to have been when there was independent railway companies, nearly 30 of them, operating with a handful of traffic. The new use of the Dublin South and Eastern by the Luas obviously been a success. Perhaps a National operator like Irish Rail has had it's day and it is down to the RPA to hire in the private guns to run more stream-lined systems regionally, Cork Suburban, Galway Suburban etc.

It's all well and good having "our own" network. But not at the cost of it being unusable as a service.

08-06-2012 12:32am

I'd be afraid of using the emergency buttons due to the very large "Penalty for improper use" warning stamped underneath them.

I really can't understand why it's Irish Rail's fault that somebody ignores the reserved seating notices. I don't know what more they can do, short of asking for ID when doing ticket checks.

studiorat · 08-06-2012 1:12am

Karsini wrote: »

I really can't understand why it's Irish Rail's fault that somebody ignores the reserved seating notices. I don't know what more they can do, short of asking for ID when doing ticket checks.

It's an emergency I want to sit down!!!

They don't need to ask for ID, the seat numbers are on the tickets as is the passengers name. They simply need to bring this to the passengers attention when checking the ticket.

The problem seems to be that the reserved notices are well, quite un-noticeable. Yet IR insist in offering the reservation regardless.

Why do they have it at all? It seems quite useless. So I can only assume it's an attempt to make a quick buck.
Why don't the ticket checkers ever mention it when checking the tickets?
I've never seen an ticket inspector remark on it either for that matter.

It's just another thing that illustrates the inefficiency of the operation.

end of the road · 08-06-2012 4:00am

their needs to be another member of staff on board intercity/regional services other than the driver. this idea of the driver being able to turn on the CCTV to view whats going on down the end of the train or will deal with your complaint if you push the emergency button is just not good enough. the drivers job is to drive the train, if he's viewing the CCTV or trying to deal with passengers he is not fully concentrating on driving the train. he may be able to do both but he shouldn't have to. some people say they can drive while talking on a mobile and maybe they can, but its illegal and rightly so. yet a train driver is not only incharge of driving 3/4/6/8 carriges of train, but has to deal with passengers complaints or view CCTV if theirs a problem when some uncivilised person or people decide to cause trouble. i'm aware commuter and dart have the same problems but i'm not sure would they require another member of staff on board.

kingshankly · 08-06-2012 7:17am

flyingsnail wrote: »

I am sorry but you are wrong, it is entirely dependant on the stock. The only stock left with actual guards is the De dietrich on the enterprise. The host on a mk 4 is not a guard.

I'm sorry my friend I'm not wrong if a 2900 railcar is used for the Belfast ( which is quite often I have drove 29s to Belfast on 3 occasions recently to Belfast and I am just 1 of maybe 20 drivers who drive to Belfast ) it needs a guard

corktina · 08-06-2012 7:30am

the only way is all reservation or no reservation...ie aer lingus or ryanair....

450 job losses announced at Iarnród Éireann

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