Is the dole too generous?

SAVE_ME.222 wrote: »

PRSI - if you are gonna cut the dole, you have to reduce PRSI also. I've paid over €4000, not to mention what my employers have contibuted, since beginning work. I could claim the full dole for 20 weeks and not have taken a cent from the state.

No, it's Pay Related Social Insurance and if you pay 6%, includes a 2% Health and Employment levy. It pays for SW and Health so cutting it actually reduces the money available!

Its an interesting topic and I can see both sides. I have to wonder why it's £60 under a Labour Govt. in the UK though.

Our minimum wage here is €340 odd, dole and rent allowance adds to not far off that.

One of those isn't right and considering our minimum wage is high, that tends to suggest the wage is not the problem.

I'm afraid that the "anomaly" is the situation in which we currently find ourselves, in which our dole has inflated to three times what it is across the border.

I still maintain that the difference in living costs and the devaluing of sterling have in part led to this anomaly which is no reason to lower dole payments to NI levels.

What would you personally lower welfare payments to DF and would you similarly lower the state pension ?

But we need to be rational and understand that slashing the compensation packages of 35 lavishly paid ministers is more an issue of leading by example—it will not have a significant macroeconomic impact. If 400,000 people were unemployed, a mere €1 reduction in the dole would save the state €20 million a year.

And €10 would save €200m but their would still be a huge hole in the public finances. Like I say introduce other measures first. I mentioned more than ministerial salaries as I'm sure you're aware.

Savings can be made elsewhere for the time being, freeze welfare now and revisit it in a years time but don't cut it now and don't do it to the levels being bandied around here.

The reality is if you halve welfare now people will default on their mortgages, they'll lose their homes, their cars, their dignity even. What would the cost of this be to the state ?

People on here can say sure let them rent like the rest of us but the reality is these people have homes that could only be sold for a fraction of what they were worth only a couple of years ago. If they default now they're evicted, in negative equity and claiming rent allowance. They're now in a hole they're not getting out of for years. Poverty trap I believe is the proper term.

We as a state can bail out the banks to the tune of 5.5b - 7.5b and counting, quite possibly we should, we will all pay the price for this over the next few years but like I've said let's start paying at the top end of society and work our way down.

Honestly, our monolingualism is a stunning indictment of a school system that expends most of its effort on teaching Irish, a language that is utterly useless when it comes to European integration

I`m not so sure it`s ONLY the system.

I have for quite some time now been of the opinion that a substantial number of the "Tiger era" wonderkinder have simply been raised in a form of aspirational vacuum by parents who fell hook,line and sinker into the Anglo-Irish ethos.

Threads elsewhere mention the presence of "Educational Inflation",a process which began when society felt emboldened to delete the notion of failing at any given task.

Thuis we arrived at the point where a student found it IMPOSSIBLE to fail in their State Examinations.
Instead we devised a tortuous system to allocate some form of grade to even the most abject educational failures.
(Note I do not aspire to investigate the causes of these failures,merely their existance)

This has quite rapidly percolated through to the higher educational sectors with some of the Universities apparently becoming worried at how the World (ie: Employers) view those Irish sourced Degrees.

In a great deal of cases our educational system has made available a wide range of courses to allow for diversification and intellectual expansion but these have been somewhat lacking in achieving stirring results.

What appears lacking is any form of motivation of the soul.
It manifests itself in the "here comes the weekend" syndrome which appears to now extend to the entire week.

This lack of motivation,or laziness to put it another way,also exists within the greater body as portrayed in the Dole issue.

As far as I can make out,it`s not the extent of the actual payment that`s at issue but the notion that once in this system you`re safe.

Admission to the Welfare System for many is akin to getting past the Bouncer at the niteclub door....if you can conceal your white socks you`re away in a hack.

The real continuing and expanding drain on our reducing little pot is the manner in which our SW system openself wide for the most basic of fraudulent claims.

The combining of two seperate allowances and associated knock-on entitlements by a like-minded couple can be a very fruitful indeed and is IMO a rapidly growing problem (For EVERYBODY else)

A young unmarried couple with a small child can with a wee bit of application, or guidance from a sibling who has gone before,learn to combine their resources and strike for gold.

1 Lone Parent Allowance.
1 Jobseekers Allowance.
1 Private Rented Accomodation Allowance.
1 Medical Card
Misc Child Related allowances x by number of children if applicable.

In many cases these allowances are being used to fund a practically "normal" cohabitational family with the male partner usually doing a "wee bit" to make ends meet......

The natural progression then is to "Go On the list" for a Local Authority house which of course will be under a far more socially lenient arrangement re Rent and associated responsibilities of home ownership.

In short once the system can be tuned by the savvy applicant there is little or no incentive to bother gettin out of the (King Size) bed any morning,unless it`s to collect a few bob that a lad owes one........

Somebody should write a book on it

I know a few lads who love being on the dole and will probably never work a day in their lives.
Yes there are people on the dole that badly need the money but i would like to see it reduced in increments.

Sign on: Full Dole
after 3 months 90%
after 6 months 75%
after 12 months 50%
after 18 months 25%
after 24 months 0%

This would put an end to those who are un-willing to work or screwing the system.

RedPlanet wrote: »

Unfortunately you are presuming there are jobs out there for everybody. Which is clearly not the case anymore.

Of course there are jobs for everyone. There is always shops, bars, petrol stations looking for workers but a lot of Irish people think they are above this kind of work now. I have now doubts that if i lost my job today i'd have another job in less than a week if i wanted it. It might not be a job i'd like or be well paid but there are plenty of jobs out there.