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Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread
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Ok I am in too!
Been running just over two years average around 20+ miles aweek training when not racing more if I am. I havent raced in a good while due to work commitments but I am back on track now. Not 100% sure on times as it been ages since raced but last 10k was 58:xx about 8 months ago (endurance not speed is my game
). I am able to train 5-6 days a week and do not need to walk during training.
Hoping to do marathon sub 4.30 but not pushing for anytime, just to get through and I am raising money for Alzheimers research as well as saying YAY I did a marathon
Also doing Dub Half in Sept so will incorporate that into my training and doing the series races too.
Should be fun :eek:0 -
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BetterThanHoyte wrote: »Are you going to tell us to do them fast?
Just figured out my 14 mile lsr on sunday was at 7:30 per mile pace. It felt pretty slow though. Certainly the HR was pretty low (forgot the HRM but know myself that I wasnt pushing it, wasnt breathless at any point)
Long Slow Run
This should be run at between 45 seconds and 90 secs slower that your planned marathon pace. If you found 7:30 easy for 14 that's great but try doing 20 miles at that pace after doing 20 - 30 during the week (every week during training) with speed sessions etc, you'll end up burnt out, if not injured.
You'll be faster than most attempting their first marathon but there were a few people last year who didn't make it to the start line (never mind the finish) because they didn't train in a smart way.:)0 -
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Long Slow Run
This should be run at between 45 seconds and 90 secs slower that your planned marathon pace. If you found 7:30 easy for 14 that's great but try doing 20 miles at that pace after doing 20 - 30 during the week (every week during training) with speed sessions etc, you'll end up burnt out, if not injured.
You'll be faster than most attempting their first marathon but there were a few people last year who didn't make it to the start line (never mind the finish) because they didn't train in a smart way.:)
Just looking at McMillan (which seems to be the most trusted source round here) again and my marathon pace should be 6:52, although i don't expect to break 3 hours which is the suggested finish time on the website. That would be 38secs faster than my LSR this weekend, which is close to the 45 secs you mention. McMillan only adds 30sec, not 45. In any case, I run mostly off how I'm feeling, around a rough target pace. I'll most likely slow as i get close to 20 miles, but last Sundays 14 was my longest run ever, and it was very comfortable, and never breathless. In the 7 days before that I trained almost 10 hours, which included 20 miles running. I am very wary of injury and overtraining but I really don't think I'm over doing it right now. According to McMillan I'm at the faster end of my LSR pace, but still within their guidelines.0 -
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The most important workout in your marathon training programme is the long run. This is the run you can't skimp on, the one you really can't do without. When things start getting tough on race day - and they will get tough - the long runs are the training sessions you'll draw strength from. The memory of those miles, in your head and in your legs, could be the thing that pulls you through.
In the first week of the training plan, the 'long' run is 6 miles. 6 miles is not long at all - most of you will have raced that distance already, let alone run it in training. But that distance will build up over the weeks, to 10, 14, 18, 20 miles, distances that are probably worrying you even now
. It is important to approach these long runs correctly, right from the beginning, so that as the distances increase you can still handle them.
That means running them slowly.
Your Long Slow Run pace should be 30-90 seconds slower* than your planned marathon pace (PMP). If you don't know what your PMP is, that's okay - run at a pace that you can hold a comfortable conversation at. You're still not sure? Slow down some more. In the early weeks of the programme, and early in your runs, you are going to feel like you're barely crawling along. That's just right.
Lot's of people have trouble understanding this, and it's one of the most common marathon questions people have - "If I plan to run the marathon at 9 minute miles, and I feel I can go out and do my long run at 9 minute miles, why do you want me to slow down?"
The problem is, you might be able to run your long run at PMP, but it will exhaust you. Improving your running fitness is an incremental process. It's not about doing one great training session, it's about getting out for your 4/5 runs this week and doing them all well, and doing the same next week, and the week after. Consistency of training is the key to improvement, so you need to be recovered from your long runs in a couple of days - and you won't be if you've run at PMP.
Running faster, and spending less time on your runs, would compromise some of the benefits of your long runs. The longer runs are training your body for endurance running. Your body needs to get better at burning fat, as well as carbohydrates for energy (because you can't store enough carbs for a marathon and when they run out, you hit the wall). Your legs need to get better at using different muscle groups in running. Your feet need to get used to the pounding. You need practice at maintaining good running form when tired. All of these things are easier when you are running slowly.
There is also a mental benefit to the long runs. The marathon is going to take you 4 to 5 hours to run. That can be emotionally exhausting. But the experience of spending hours on your LSRs will make you better prepared for marathon day.
So, three things to remember about your LSRs- They are the most important sessions every week
- Make sure you get your longest LSRs in (18/20 miles)
- Run them slowly
* there's some variation from plan to plan. Some say a minute slower, others say 10%, others says 30-90 seconds. Some say start slowly and get faster towards the end. Some plans will include faster miles in the LSR. But, as far as I can see, they all agree that most of your long miles should be done at a slow pace.0 -
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this is a very "newbie" question, but then again this is the novice thread so here it is
Im doing 30-35 miles a week atm. The training plan Im going to follow does not hit that level until week 6 or so. [eg: I did 7 last night, plan never hits that level on a Thursday, and only hits that on week 8 for a Wednesday]
So I totally know the training plans are just rough guides and not gospel, but do I "ignore" training plan for the first few weeks, or should I scale back on miles and stick closer to it?0 -
tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »this is a very "newbie" question, but then again this is the novice thread so here it is
Im doing 30-35 miles a week atm. The training plan Im going to follow does not hit that level until week 6 or so. [eg: I did 7 last night, plan never hits that level on a Thursday, and only hits that on week 8 for a Wednesday]
So I totally know the training plans are just rough guides and not gospel, but do I "ignore" training plan for the first few weeks, or should I scale back on miles and stick closer to it?
I'd look at something with more mileage that you can adapt to suit you, the Higdon plans are great if you haven't got a great base but you do.0 -
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If Novice1 really is too easy for you, you can follow a more challenging plan while still following this thread. (Or tinker with the plan - I followed Novice2 last year, but I increased the distance of all the LSRs by one or two miles, up to a maximum of 20)I'd look at something with more mileage that you can adapt to suit you, the Higdon plans are great if you haven't got a great base but you do.
Thanks, oh wise ones...
I was looking at HH Intermediate 1 actually - but what you say makes sense, I will have a look around this evening.
I was taking Runners Worlds definition of intermediateIntermediate You regularly run 20 to 30 miles a week, and have done so for a year or more. You do a weekly long run of eight to 10 miles and have some experience with tempo runs or intervals....
But as you say, it may just be a case of slightly adapting one of them. More research needed, something to do in work to pass time, happy days 0 -
tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »Thanks, oh wise ones...
I was looking at HH Intermediate 1 actually - but what you say makes sense, I will have a look around this evening.
I was taking Runners Worlds definition of intermediate
But as you say, it may just be a case of slightly adapting one of them. More research needed, something to do in work to pass time, happy days
I'm following P&D, might be worth a look. As said before you don't have to run every mile in the plan but take what you need from it.0 -
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tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »this is a very "newbie" question, but then again this is the novice thread so here it is
Im doing 30-35 miles a week atm. The training plan Im going to follow does not hit that level until week 6 or so. [eg: I did 7 last night, plan never hits that level on a Thursday, and only hits that on week 8 for a Wednesday]
So I totally know the training plans are just rough guides and not gospel, but do I "ignore" training plan for the first few weeks, or should I scale back on miles and stick closer to it?
How long have you been hitting the 30-35? If it is not that long what you can do is remain at this mileage for a bit allowing your time to get used to it before building again. This can be a safe way off allowing your body to assimilate to the extra mileage
The other option would ben if you have been doing this mileage for some time and you start a training plan increase your mileage proportionally to the increases in a plan. If the plan starts at 15 miles and builds by 2-3 miles in one week perhaps you can build by same % just make sure not to ramp it up too much.
I would say no point in taking a step back on the mileage as the extra mileage will stand to you come race day0 -
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