Lack of sympathy over killing of Roma girl.

Dudess · 07-04-2012 12:39pm

Thought the garda was talking about lack of public outrage rather than media coverage. I know the two are intertwined when it comes to comment, analysis etc, but not for the initial story being reported.

Millicent · 07-04-2012 12:41pm

Dudess wrote: »

Thought the garda was talking about lack of public outrage rather than media coverage. I know the two are intertwined when it comes to comment, analysis etc, but not for the initial story being reported.

I find it very strange because the public outrage is unquantifiable. If he is talking about marches or the like, I can think of cases where there have been demonstrations in recent years (the black teenager who was killed for apparently racist motives comes to mind) but those types of demonstrations are usually organised by the family and people close to them. Who would Marioara, as a member of a disenfranchised and often sneered at minority group, have to organise a demonstration?

weldoninhio · 07-04-2012 12:43pm

No sympathy from me.

NinjaNinja · 07-04-2012 12:49pm

That's terrible. I can't understand what is wrong with the Irish at this point.

Millicent · 07-04-2012 12:59pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

No sympathy from me.

For her killer? Me either.

Because if you're not referring to the killer, then you're referring to a young, innocent, vulnerable girl who was brutally raped/assaulted, murdered and tossed in a shallow grave and that would make you a disgusting, depraved pig of a human being without the capability for empathy, right? You wouldn't be that low of a human being just because she was of the Roma community, would you?

Dudess · 07-04-2012 1:04pm

NinjaNinja wrote: »

That's terrible. I can't understand what is wrong with the Irish at this point.

The killing or the allegations by the garda?
Can't see how these would be exclusive to the Irish, but maybe you'll expand...

Millicent · 07-04-2012 1:07pm

I've been thinking about the garda's statement and I wonder is it just someone lashing out through grief? As far as I've read, gardaí who had been dealing with murders for years were greatly shocked and affected deeply by this case. Is it possible the garda in the OP is projecting his own feelings on the Irish public and hitting out in frustration?

Not saying it's definitely that but it's a possibility.

Dudess · 07-04-2012 1:12pm

Millicent wrote: »

I've been thinking about the garda's statement and I wonder is it just someone lashing out through grief? As far as I've read, gardaí who had been dealing with murders for years were greatly shocked and affected deeply by this case. Is it possible the garda in the OP is projecting his own feelings on the Irish public and hitting out in frustration?

Not saying it's definitely that but it's a possibility.

It's absolutely what I suspected when I read it. The man is probably broken from that case. Even reading about the details is almost too much to bear, imagine actually dealing directly with it...

Millicent · 07-04-2012 1:16pm

Dudess wrote: »

It's absolutely what I suspected when I read it. The man is probably broken from that case. Even reading about the details is almost too much to bear, imagine actually dealing directly with it...

And the impression I get is that there are things they're not revealing to the public, given how strong the reaction of the investigating gardaí has been. My heart goes out to those gardaí--it's struck me several times how much they really, really seem to care about the victim and seeing justice done. I can't imagine how hard a burden a case like this is to carry.

Dudess · 07-04-2012 1:28pm

I'm guessing she was subjected to tortures that it probably wouldn't be in the public's interest to know about, and for the sake of her family...

Millicent wrote: »

weldoninhio wrote: »

No sympathy from me.

For her killer? Me either.

Because if you're not referring to the killer, then you're referring to a young, innocent, vulnerable girl who was brutally raped/assaulted, murdered and tossed in a shallow grave and that would make you a disgusting, depraved pig of a human being without the capability for empathy, right? You wouldn't be that low of a human being just because she was of the Roma community, would you?

Interesting to see whether they'll answer.

RGDATA! · 07-04-2012 8:50pm

Kaner2004 wrote: »

Would you be nice enough to invite a family of poor homeless Roma into your home to look after it while you are away on holidays? Just to do someting kind for them.

No?

Then you sir are a racist and please stop being my conscience for me.

Ridiculous analogy. I could count on one hand people outside family I would entrust my house to. If you think your point is relevant to racism, or what is being discussed here I think you are very ignorant.

Ironically, I can imagine a type of die hard racist who would still have some sympathy for how this girl lost her life, yet we've had people who just want to emphasise they have no sympathy for her.

RGDATA! · 07-04-2012 9:11pm

Millicent wrote: »

I've been thinking about the garda's statement and I wonder is it just someone lashing out through grief? As far as I've read, gardaí who had been dealing with murders for years were greatly shocked and affected deeply by this case. Is it possible the garda in the OP is projecting his own feelings on the Irish public and hitting out in frustration?

Not saying it's definitely that but it's a possibility.

I think you probably have something here.

I'm not surprised this case is getting less attention than if it were an Irish girl. I don't think that in itself is damning of our press or society. An Irish tiddlywinks champion gets as much press here as a heavyweight title fight, we're like that.

But to be incapable of sympathy for another human because they are of a particular race seems tragic. I don't think it's stretching it to say people who say this have something in common with the guys who killed this girl.

I think a better comparison for this case is the coverage given to the poor Swiss girl murdered in Galway a few years ago, a terribly sad story that got no more coverage than it deserved, but much broader coverage than this. Then again this story still has a bit to run and who knows...

weldoninhio · 07-04-2012 10:38pm

Dudess wrote: »

I'm guessing she was subjected to tortures that it probably wouldn't be in the public's interest to know about, and for the sake of her family...

Millicent wrote: »

weldoninhio wrote: »

No sympathy from me.

For her killer? Me either.

Because if you're not referring to the killer, then you're referring to a young, innocent, vulnerable girl who was brutally raped/assaulted, murdered and tossed in a shallow grave and that would make you a disgusting, depraved pig of a human being without the capability for empathy, right? You wouldn't be that low of a human being just because she was of the Roma community, would you?

Interesting to see whether they'll answer.

I'd have no sympathy for either of them. Romas don't contribute to society in any way, shape or form so it's no great loss to the world and no sympathy for the killer for obvious reasons.

Millicent · 07-04-2012 10:40pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'd have no sympathy for either of them. Romas don't contribute to society in any way, shape or form so it's no great loss to the world and no sympathy for the killer for obvious reasons.

Ah, so it turns out you are a pig. My mistake.

themandan6611 · 07-04-2012 10:51pm

Millicent wrote: »

Ah, so it turns out you are a pig. My mistake.

how dare you brush pigs with that brush

tayto lover · 07-04-2012 11:06pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'd have no sympathy for either of them. Romas don't contribute to society in any way, shape or form so it's no great loss to the world and no sympathy for the killer for obvious reasons.

You are just as bad as the killer of that helpless young girl.
You should be ashamed to utter a disgusting statement like that.
The pain and suffering that this young girl suffered was horrific and to have no empathy for her says a lot about you.

Millicent · 07-04-2012 11:08pm

tayto lover wrote: »

You are just as bad as the killer of that helpless young girl.
You should be ashamed to utter a disgusting statement like that.
The pain and suffering that this young girl suffered was horrific and to have no empathy for her says a lot about you.

Sociopathy?

Rothko · 07-04-2012 11:09pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

No sympathy from me.

People like you make me sick.

amdublin · 07-04-2012 11:16pm

I don't care where that girl was from....or what she "was" etc etc

What she went through is horrendous.

The poor poor girl. Makes me sick thinking of it. And then her father seen on cctv walking the streets looking for her. And no english to report her missing.

It's a sad sad story and I feel shame it happened to her in Ireland.

Millicent · 07-04-2012 11:18pm

amdublin wrote: »

I don't care where that girl was from....or what she "was" etc etc

What she went through is horrendous.

The poor poor girl. Makes me sick thinking of it. And then her father seen on cctv walking the streets looking for her. And no english to report her missing.

It's a sad sad story and I feel shame it happened to her in Ireland.

I never heard that about the father. Oh God, that's awful. Or about the inability to report her missing.

Can you remember where you heard/read that?

seniorstaff · 07-04-2012 11:28pm

Hi
There is no interest in the death of that misfortunate girl ,May she rest in peace, The lack of sympathy stems from the fact that the romas are gypsies that are despised in romania and every country that has ever had the misfortune to allow them in has found them to be utter thieves and scumbags with no redeeming features.

With the state of our country we are now pre occupied with paying mortgages and keeping our children fed etc and not the brutal murder of a roma gypsy.

amdublin · 07-04-2012 11:29pm

Millicent wrote: »

I never heard that about the father. Oh God, that's awful. Or about the inability to report her missing. Can you remember where you heard/read that?

Think it was Paul Williams on the Saturday night show. Gards checked CCTV to see if they could see her. No sign, but they saw the father numerous times

He went to a garda station but could not speak English. He showed her ID card but the gards thought he was enquiring had she been arrested for begging.
After a few days someone from his community told him to go to the four courts to find a translator.

She managed to ring her brother at one stage from the house she was being held in. She looked out a window and could see the street name but because she could not read or write she couldn't describe where she was.

amdublin · 07-04-2012 11:30pm

seniorstaff wrote: »

Hi
There is no interest in the death of that misfortunate girl ,May she rest in peace, The lack of sympathy stems from the fact that the romas are gypsies that are despised in romania and every country that has ever had the misfortune to allow them in has found them to be utter thieves and scumbags with no redeeming features.

With the state of our country we are now pre occupied with paying mortgages and keeping our children fed etc and not the brutal murder of a roma gypsy.

Speak for yourself!!!!

You do not speak for me:

amdublin wrote: »

I don't care where that girl was from....or what she "was" etc etc

What she went through is horrendous.

The poor poor girl. Makes me sick thinking of it. And then her father seen on cctv walking the streets looking for her. And no english to report her missing.

It's a sad sad story and I feel shame it happened to her in Ireland.

tayto lover · 07-04-2012 11:33pm

seniorstaff wrote: »

Hi
There is no interest in the death of that misfortunate girl ,May she rest in peace, The lack of sympathy stems from the fact that the romas are gypsies that are despised in romania and every country that has ever had the misfortune to allow them in has found them to be utter thieves and scumbags with no redeeming features.

With the state of our country we are now pre occupied with paying mortgages and keeping our children fed etc and not the brutal murder of a roma gypsy.

So you are not worried that there are evil people walking around who are prepared to torture, rape and murder a young girl in our capital city.
You just mentioned the fact that she was a Roma so therefore a thief and a scumbag BUT not a word about the crazed killer who tortured and killed her.

You should also be ashamed of yourself. Whatever that girl was (and it doesn't matter) she was a human being created and loved by her family. She did not choose the life she was born into.

Ellie2008 · 07-04-2012 11:38pm

seniorstaff wrote: »

Hi
There is no interest in the death of that misfortunate girl ,May she rest in peace, The lack of sympathy stems from the fact that the romas are gypsies that are despised in romania and every country that has ever had the misfortune to allow them in has found them to be utter thieves and scumbags with no redeeming features.

With the state of our country we are now pre occupied with paying mortgages and keeping our children fed etc and not the brutal murder of a roma gypsy.

That poor little girl was someone s child!!! I don't care what the Roma people have done or not done she didn't choose her life, she was begging, trying to survive like the rest of us and easy pickings for the man that killed her. Your attitude would not have been out of place in Nazi Germany.

_dutch_gold · 07-04-2012 11:43pm

Murder is murder, sick fúck should be brought to justice

Ellie2008 · 07-04-2012 11:48pm

_dutch_gold wrote: »

Murder is murder, sick fúck should be brought to justice

It seems he will be. It really is the stuff of nightmares.

Dudess · 08-04-2012 12:55am

tayto lover wrote: »

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'd have no sympathy for either of them. Romas don't contribute to society in any way, shape or form so it's no great loss to the world and no sympathy for the killer for obvious reasons.

You are just as bad as the killer of that helpless young girl.

They're not just as bad, to be fair - they'd have to carry out similar crimes. But no sympathy for a teenage girl who was abducted, trapped, tortured, raped, beaten and murdered - just on the basis of the wider community into which she was born? Surely not. Actually think about that statement ffs...

Jezek · 08-04-2012 2:41am

Don't feed the troll guys. Normal humans feel compassion and empathy. Socio/Psychopaths may not, but they know to fake it. Trolls on the other hand, have no emotions except a need to stir up some sh1t.

Dudess · 08-04-2012 2:56am

seniorstaff wrote: »

Hi
There is no interest in the death of that misfortunate girl ,May she rest in peace, The lack of sympathy stems from the fact that the romas are gypsies that are despised in romania and every country that has ever had the misfortune to allow them in has found them to be utter thieves and scumbags with no redeeming features.

With the state of our country we are now pre occupied with paying mortgages and keeping our children fed etc and not the brutal murder of a roma gypsy.

There is no interest? Well that's bollocks.

themandan6611 · 08-04-2012 3:09am

I have a lot of interest, both in the recent arrest of a Mr W and his relations

Dudess · 08-04-2012 4:49am

amdublin wrote: »

Millicent wrote: »

I never heard that about the father. Oh God, that's awful. Or about the inability to report her missing. Can you remember where you heard/read that?

Think it was Paul Williams on the Saturday night show. Gards checked CCTV to see if they could see her. No sign, but they saw the father numerous times

He went to a garda station but could not speak English. He showed her ID card but the gards thought he was enquiring had she been arrested for begging.
After a few days someone from his community told him to go to the four courts to find a translator.

She managed to ring her brother at one stage from the house she was being held in. She looked out a window and could see the street name but because she could not read or write she couldn't describe where she was.

Fuk... me...

Ellie2008 · 08-04-2012 7:24am

Jezek wrote: »

Don't feed the troll guys. Normal humans feel compassion and empathy. Socio/Psychopaths may not, but they know to fake it. Trolls on the other hand, have no emotions except a need to stir up some sh1t.

Well I know this is After Hours and all that but anyone who would troll on this subject really fecks me off... what if it was their 18 year old sister, not such a source of banter then I dare say.

Grayson · 08-04-2012 11:01am

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah, person goes missing - up to their family to create awareness, particularly if they're a member of an already disenfranchised community.

And in fairness, people look to news outlets to provide information - seems unfair to object to people not discussing something they don't know about because it was not covered by their publication of choice.
Is Katy French still being discussed btw?

Even though it took a few days for the father to report her missing (I don't think either of us knew that when you were responding to me) it'd not the singular responsibly of parents and family.

And my whole point was what you reiterated, if it's not in the news, we won't be discussing it. And you can see that simply by doing a quick search for katy french here. There's thousands of references to her. There's less than a page of results for this girl.

And the biggest thread is this one. The one that appeared after a garda said it was a horrific crime that was not being discussed because of her nationality. If you remove this thread from the search, there's only two or three threads.

So back to my original point, if we take boards as a basic gauge of how much press the killing got, it's showing a very low amount of attention from the press (I'm not saying you could use boards as a 100% indicator, but as a metric it would indicative of the press coverage)

And the only argument we've had to counter this was someone saying "Well, I remember it was in loads" "Well except for the papers I don't read" and "Well, I can't remember exactly what the coverage was"

Well, that a load of people saying it's to be expected since Roma beg.

weldoninhio · 08-04-2012 12:12pm

Jezek wrote: »

Don't feed the troll guys. Normal humans feel compassion and empathy. Socio/Psychopaths may not, but they know to fake it. Trolls on the other hand, have no emotions except a need to stir up some sh1t.

I'm far from a troll, just because my opinion differs from your does not make me one.

MagicSean · 08-04-2012 12:27pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'm far from a troll, just because my opinion differs from your does not make me one.

No, your opinion makes you something much worse than a troll.

paddyandy · 08-04-2012 12:39pm

Bad behaviour effects those around us ; a truism as old as man himself . Reputations good or bad are generated and their results .

darkdubh · 08-04-2012 1:04pm

Is the fella charged related to the guy who was convicted of murder in Spain recently and whose mother clobbered a Sunday World reporter?

tayto lover · 08-04-2012 1:11pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'm far from a troll, just because my opinion differs from your does not make me one.

It's a good job that there are not many with your disgusting and diverse opinions. Take a good look at yourself and examine your opinions.
I have often stopped to help an injured animal on the road. You would probably inflict more injury.

weldoninhio · 08-04-2012 1:22pm

tayto lover wrote: »

It's a good job that there are not many with your disgusting and diverse opinions. Take a good look at yourself and examine your opinions.
I have often stopped to help an injured animal on the road. You would probably inflict more injury.

Infilct more injury?? Hahaha, where did you pull that from??

AudreyHepburn · 08-04-2012 1:30pm

There are some seriously sick and messed up opinions on this thread.

We are talking here about a young girl viciously murdered after being subjected to days ( or was it weeks?) of horrific tortured for no apparent reason. Racism and bigotry have no place here.

Now I have complained and badmouthed Roma, I admit it, but I would never generalise about them nor would I ever suggest that poor Marioara is not deserving of sympathy because of her culture and backround.

Certain posters here need to take a long hard look at themselves and their ideals.

RIP Marioara.

Dudess · 08-04-2012 1:49pm

Grayson wrote: »

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah, person goes missing - up to their family to create awareness, particularly if they're a member of an already disenfranchised community.

And in fairness, people look to news outlets to provide information - seems unfair to object to people not discussing something they don't know about because it was not covered by their publication of choice.
Is Katy French still being discussed btw?

Even though it took a few days for the father to report her missing (I don't think either of us knew that when you were responding to me) it'd not the singular responsibly of parents and family.

And my whole point was what you reiterated, if it's not in the news, we won't be discussing it. And you can see that simply by doing a quick search for katy french here. There's thousands of references to her. There's less than a page of results for this girl.

And the biggest thread is this one. The one that appeared after a garda said it was a horrific crime that was not being discussed because of her nationality. If you remove this thread from the search, there's only two or three threads.

So back to my original point, if we take boards as a basic gauge of how much press the killing got, it's showing a very low amount of attention from the press (I'm not saying you could use boards as a 100% indicator, but as a metric it would indicative of the press coverage)

And the only argument we've had to counter this was someone saying "Well, I remember it was in loads" "Well except for the papers I don't read" and "Well, I can't remember exactly what the coverage was"

Well, that a load of people saying it's to be expected since Roma beg.

Well the garda said it was lack of public outcry, not lack of initial reportage - two different things.
I understand the man is distraught but I don't think he's being fair. To say there's a significant proportion of people not bothered about what that girl went through because she was Roma is quite the allegation. Most people are compassionate. Only speculating but I'm confident the majority of the worst comments would simply be "I don't like Roma but she didn't deserve that".
As Millicent said too, numerous missing persons, of settled Irish background, aren't highlighted by the media.

The_Thing · 08-04-2012 1:58pm

One of the girl's abductors handed her brother a €10 note from the car before they drove off with her and in the overall context of Mariora Rostas murder I find this in itself to be a very dark act indeed.

I have no experience of them - apart from some Roma women selling flowers outside nightclubs, but I doubt very much that this young woman's hopes and dreams amounted to nothing more than begging on the streets of a foreign city.

May she rest in peace.

Dudess · 08-04-2012 2:08pm

That thing about the tenner - wtf?!

Sunnyisland · 08-04-2012 2:20pm

themandan6611 wrote: »

I have a lot of interest, both in the recent arrest of a Mr W and his relations

Why, just curious, The mother lives not far from me .

JohnMarston · 08-04-2012 2:25pm

The_Thing wrote: »

One of the girl's abductors handed her brother a €10 note from the car before they drove off with her and in the overall context of Mariora Rostas murder I find this in itself to be a very dark act indeed.

I have no experience of them - apart from some Roma women selling flowers outside nightclubs, but I doubt very much that this young woman's hopes and dreams amounted to nothing more than begging on the streets of a foreign city.

May she rest in peace.

Agreed.
Irredeemably evil b*stards to have done a thing like that.

RIP Mariora

Solair · 08-04-2012 2:32pm

I think there's a worrying acceptance of violent crime in Ireland as if it were just something we should put up with.

There's too much being turned a blind eye to in Ireland.

RiseToTheTop · 08-04-2012 2:34pm

I feel that when people heard about the killing the thought that she was a girl who would watch her pockets, etc. That went into theire heads.

Sunnyisland · 08-04-2012 2:35pm

darkdubh wrote: »

Is the fella charged related to the guy who was convicted of murder in Spain recently and whose mother clobbered a Sunday World reporter?

Yes thats his step brother, same mother different fathers.

Dudess · 08-04-2012 3:25pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I have often stopped to help an injured animal on the road. You would probably inflict more injury.

In fairness I don't think he would - I don't think he's sociopathic or anything like that... just a person who doesn't put thought into things, and kneejerk reaction makes up his mind for him rather than actual critical thinking.

Lack of sympathy over killing of Roma girl.

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