Episode 5x10: 'Mother's Mercy' - READERS thread

Good post spiralism, which if you don't mind I'll use to express some of my own views on the problems with the episode/show.

spiralism wrote: »

I've felt this for a while but it's quite clear that 10 hours a series is not enough for the sheer amount of depth that is in this story, even by editing the plot strongly. Liked the episode and the second half of the season in general but they struggled to keep plotlines moving throughout i felt.

I got that impression this season more than the previous ones. Many of the scenes and the length of them gave me the impression that we were just quickly checking in with a character and getting the bullet points, rather than spending enough time with them to feel properly invested in their story.

spiralism wrote: »

Dorne a whole lot of nothing happened except they killed Myrcella off making the whole quest a shaggy dog story. It was like the TV equivalent of Brienne's storyline in AFFC. Trystane Martell left there on the boat so the Sand Snakes just sent the heir of Dorne off to be murdered immediately after by Jaime and ****ed into the sea.

Dorne is just grating on me the more I think about it. I initially thought that I didn't mind the scenes in the finale, but my judgement was clouded at the time by being caught up in Jamie's happy moment with Mycella, before ya know, she bled to death through her nose. But now, on reflection, it was all terrible.

When Jamie, Bronn, Mycella and Trystane took off in the little boat for Westeros, it didn't look very big or to have many private chambers onboard. It looked to be the kind of vessel where if a crew member came into distress while on board, everyone else would know. Why didn't Bronn and Trystane storm the open cabin when they heard Jaime shouting Mycella's name? They would have literally been sitting/standing the far side of the curtain. The only reason I can think of, is because it suited the scene for Jaime to be alone and have Mycella die in his arms for the dramatic effect. I'm sorry, but it's very obvious things like this which bring the show down for me.

Then, why didn't the boat turn around and go back for the harbour to try and seek help for Mycella or at least say "Ok, which one of you cheeky scallywags poisoned my daug...niece?" (Cause that's the shít that dialogue turns into in Dorne). No, sure we'll just keep heading on this way, sure we might catch a good breeze.

Jaime: Mycella! MYCELLA!!!
Bronn (enters): Ah for fúck sake!
Trystane: Mycella, my princess!...Captain, turn the boat around and sail 500 metres back to the harbour, there might be still hope.
Jaime: Are you out of your mind? Your uncle will have us slaughtered before we make it off the boat.
Trystane: My Uncle? Have you been asleep this entire time? My uncle had no part in this. He is a good man, that has been the one decent part of this whole thing. I am the heir to Dorne and their strongest link to the Iron Throne, well until now, do you think my Uncle is going to risk you slitting my throat and throwing me overboard?
Jaime: That's actually a good idea, Bronn, give me a blade...
Bronn: Wait Jaime, Aladdin's right, the guy in the chair was actually a sound c**t, but those chicks seemed a bit unstable, even surreal. I have been reacting to this all season of our time here.
Trystane: Yes, I have no doubt that this was the work of Ellaria. That parting with Mycella, she didn't even fúcking kiss Oberyn like that!
Bronn: C'mon Jaime, even if Mycella is brown bread, we can get this shíte cleared up in about 5 minutes and not drag it on the next season few months.
Jaime: Ok, back to the Harbour we go, call me when we are there.
Bronn: We are literally 2 minutes from the harbour.

Meanwhile back at shore, Ellaria starts dripping blood from the nose, the poison taking effect, as her and her Sand Snakes smugly watch the boat drift for the horizon. Ellaria takes the antidote and wipes her lips, but then the boat turns 180 degrees and heads back to Sunspear. The mouths of Ellaria and her Sand Snakes drop...

Ellaria: You know, I hadn't thought about the likely possibility of them just turning around...
Tyene: We'll be fine, we did what must be done, justice is served for Oberyn.
Ellaria: Wait, what have I done? How did I get here? The last I remember is watching Oberyn perish in King's Landing. I had show viewers crowds of onlookers gutted for me and really empathising with my character loss. Oh Oberyn, my love, you were taken from me but you did volunteer for trial by combat against the Mountain, and only fell because of your own hubris. I am lost, heart-broken, but must go on. So, Sand Snakes, what did I miss during my blackout?
Tyene: Well, you see those drips of blood on the ground at your feet, and that little boat docking at the harbour? Well the drips of blood are the result of you temporarily poisoning yourself in order to contaminate and murder someone on that boat. You were given a severe warning not to murder this person and told to just fúck off. The boat has obviously just turned around to try to save this person.
Ellaria: Well it must have been justified. Who is this man I poisoned? Why have I poisoned him? Who severely warned me not to and why?
Obara: Many moons ago, as the the dawn sky radiated a crimson red, like the blood of...
Ellaria: Quiet you, I'd like to know before Christmas...
Tyene: You didn't poison a man, you poisoned Princess Mycella. You poisoned her to avenge Oberyn. Doran warned you not to do this because, well, it was insane. That docking boat contains no doubt the fresh corpse of Mycella, along with our recently widowed Trystane, Mycella's father - The Kingslayer Jaime Lannister, and his charming but deadly sellsword Bronn; who may or may not be actually just coming back for the bad pussy now that I think about it...
Ellaria: Huh?
Tyene: Never mind. You killed a little girl.
Ellaria: This is a wind-up, yis cheeky brats, we don't murder children in Dorne.

*Boat docks, Ellaria sees a distraught Jaime Lannister carrying the bloodied remains of his only daughter. Ellaria and the Sand Snakes flee, never to be seen or heard from again, or are all taken out in one swing from Areo Hotah and his axe - which as it turns out was only there for decorative purposes.*

So yeah, Dorne was just a big pile of WTF and pointlessness for me, apart from Prince Doran and Bronn's reactions. Only thing is, Bronn's reactions, although priceless, were a little too close to the viewers' reactions, and their ultimate comedic effect on the viewer are in no way complimentary to the show or its intentions. Bronn and his "Ah for fúck sake" at the start of the Water Garden 'fight' earlier this season was priceless, but mostly for the wrong reason. You can hear the actor Jerome Flynn expressing his bemusement with what's happening just as much as you can hear Bronn expressing frustration with having to fight once more.

Likewise in the finale, when Tyene whispered that line in Bronn's ear. There was a look of confusion on Bronn's face rather than sexual curiosity. I can just as easily see the actor having an existential crisis in that moment going by his facial reactions; "Ok, I know we've rehearsed this a few times and everyone else seems happy with it. I know the guys writing this are quite reputable and are getting paid millions to do so. But wtf is wrong with me? I just don't get it! Is there a connection to be made between 'Bad pussy' and a misbehaved cat? I feel like Kanye West in that fishstix episode of South Park. I just don't get it, but everyone else seems happy. Just ask them about it! No, tis better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open my mouth and remove all doubt. Sod it, I'm just getting old I guess. Oh to just flash back in time to the day me and Robson dropped 'What Becomes Of The Broken Hearted?' and live the last 20 years again. Maybe there was something I could have done differently, something that would make me understand what actually is going on here at the moment"

Well no, it isn't one bit your fault Jerome Flynn. "You want a good girl, but you need the bad pussy" is the worst line written in this show in 5 years, and as another poster sorta said either here or elsewhere, it was the shít cherry on top of the shít cake which was Dorne this season.

spiralism wrote: »

Some plots just drifted in and out, you'd see an episode being Kings Landing centric then would hardly see any of the capital for a couple of episodes, then likewise with Winterfell where you'd have an episode or two where it featured briefly, and another couple of episodes where very little of Arya is seen and so on. 5 mins attention to plot here and there made for frustrating plot development, to the point where at the end of the season there's nothing from the Tyrells or Littlefinger since episode 8.

The structure of the episodes and the season overall was noticeably off. No denying that the producers have a tough job in adapting a massive story with numerous characters spread through-out a fictional world into 10 hours of television, but the structuring requires some refinement going forward. You offered the perfect example of interesting, main(ish) characters like Littlefinger and the Tyrells getting no screen-time in the climatic episodes of the season. Like what even happened to Maergery? Where is Lady Olenna while Maergery is wherever she is? Where is L.F. playing his waiting game and what is he doing while Stannis Baratheon fails at weakening the Boltons? Like L.F. had been banking on him doing.

If they're going to close some stories and characters off by episode 8, and of course they have to considering the limited screen-time available, I'd agrue that Dorne should have been wrapped up by episode 8 in place of another story-line, or even expanding on some of the other scenes and make them not feel like a brief check-in with the characters.

spiralism wrote: »

Even 13 episodes a season would have given them a lot more breathing room in all honesty. It's an extremely complex story to say the very least and taking a massive edit hatchet to it has led to some stupid errors. They've stupidly scrimped on some small things that explain a lot, for example explaining that Cersei also armed the Faith to pay off a debt to the crown...

13 episodes would be so much better, but is apparently a non-runner budget-wise. I feel they could have used the 10 hours available more wisely this season. Like you said, there were a few small details which would have easily explained and/or added more gravity to events that unfolded.

There are so many "Why doesn't the Kingsguard just storm the Sept, save Cersei and slaughter these religious dudes?" type of comments floating around and they are justified. The Lannisters and their soldiers have been built-up as murderous, non shít-taking bastards for 4 seasons. I know they lost Tywin and a lot of their power with him, but still the Faith Militant didn't seem powerful enough to honestly make it believable. Also, things like an actor appearing for more or less every episode early in the season, and then just disappearing "because distraught", as was the case with Tommen, is another negative against the structuring of the season. A late season glimpse of characters like he, Maergery and Loras (even in montage) would have maybe served to bring it all back around, but once again it's a case of the show just forgetting about characters it previously used to get viewers intrigued. Extreme cases of this are Thoros of Myr, Beric Dundarrion, Balon and Yara Greyjoy, the Direwolves.

spiralism wrote: »

...Jon Snow also allowed the wildlings through so able bodied fighters could man the seriously undermanned nights watch and re-open the closed forts. Literally explaining those would have taken two minutes each time. The latter especially is really important as book Jon retained the support of many, he has the wildling recruits on side as well as those who had always backed him. The show essentially cast it as the entire watch mutinying, were Melisandre to bring him back as speculated, it gives the distinct impression that he'd be just murdered again and they'd kill her along with him to make sure of it.

Although I was moved by the 'For The Watch' scene while watching, when you think about it further it's a bit "Huh? Apart from Olly scowling, that sorta came out of nowhere, bit harsh lads, no?" Earlier in the episode when Jon and Sam were bro-ing, Jon conveniently reminded us Sam that he was "the most hated man in the Night's Watch", and that was it in terms of build-up for the episode. We went from over half of the N.W. voting for Jon as L.C. earlier in the season, to them outright gang-murdering him by the end. I don't think that as viewers we were given enough to feel the actions of the mutineers were understandable, and in reflection it takes away from the gravity of the event. With all of the time that was spent at Castle Black this season, they could have built that up more I feel. A bit of 'Show, don't tell' rather than just give us lines like "You're running out of friends Snow" and Olly alone getting the rest of the lines which solely contribute to the build-up. Olly, who has only been there a wet week and primarily wants to avenge his parents. What about the rest of the N.W. and those who actually saw 10,000 of the dead rise a few days prior? It was all just a bit "For The Watch...because the book says so" rather than a thought-out decision by some pissed off Brothers because they genuinely felt their Order was being dragged into the ground.

Anyway, once again I write way too many words. Looking forward to all of this dying down soon and being able to make more productive use of my free-time