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Swiss sending home non swiss for certain crimes

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    #92
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    enda1 wrote: »
    Can we deport EU citizens who have committed no crime in their own/other countries and who are from one of the 25 countries (meaning not Romania or Bulgaria)? I thought they'd the same right to live in Ireland as an Irish citizen.

    Yes, there are grounds to deport EU citizens. Just like Irish citizens could be deported from other EU countries. Financial status is a major one, but others could be argued too.


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    #93
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    prinz wrote: »
    Yes, there are grounds to deport EU citizens. Just like Irish citizens could be deported from other EU countries. Financial status is a major one, but others could be argued too.

    Sorry for my ignorance, but what do you mean - financial status?
    Is there a list of grounds for deportation?


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    #94
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    enda1 wrote: »
    Sorry for my ignorance, but what do you mean - financial status?

    If you haven't got the money to support yourself and you've no intention/hope of gaining employment or history of attempting to secure gainful employment then your host country is under no obligation to support you via their social welfare system. They are entitled to deport you. Basically if you have no cash, and no hope of getting any legally then they can kick your ass out, because your only hope would be getting involved in illegality of some sort.
    enda1 wrote: »
    Is there a list of grounds for deportation?

    They are spread across various pieces of Euro legislation. Plenty of info online, other reasons include being a threat to public order, health and security IIRC, failure to comply with residency laws etc. It is conceivable you could fit the above and not have a criminal record.


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    #95
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Piste wrote: »
    I would like to see something like this here, automatic expulsion. I don't know if I'd like to see them do time here..on one hand it's pretty much a get out of jail free card just sending them home, but on the other hand making them do time here costs us a fortune. I'd like to see them gone in any case, I don't think it's Xenophobic to do so either.

    it has the potential for some eejits to comit crimes so they can be sent home rather than pay.


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    #96
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Deportation of criminal foreigners is cheaper than keeping them locked up here.
    It also prevents them from entering/committing crime again.
    After a while the foreign crime bosses will stop sending their minions here.
    Well worth the expense.


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    #97
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    biko wrote: »
    Deportation of criminal foreigners is cheaper than keeping them locked up here.
    It also prevents them from entering/committing crime again.
    After a while the foreign crime bosses will stop sending their minions here.
    Well worth the expense.

    If we deport theirs, then we must expect ours back.
    There are more of ours abroad than theirs here thus costing us far more in the long run.


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    #98
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Stats for that?
    Anyway that's fine - I'm sure the families of the abroad prisoners, as well as the prisoners themselves, would rather have the Irish spend their time in an Irish prison.


    Edit: 2005 there were less than 800 Irish in foreign prisons.
    That's a quarter of a 2007 census of non-Irish in Irish prisons.
    Yes numbers change over time and all but it gives some info on the relationship.


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    #99
    Sonnenblumen
    Registered Users Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭Sonnenblumen


    not yet wrote: »
    We have nigerian gangsters,albanian gangsters,russian gangsters, polish gangsters, latvian gangsters etc etc, so take your pick........

    This country is a fcuking joke,these people are allowed into this country without any checks,and we still have these wolly jumper brigade who say....are sure didn't we go all over the world...yeah spot on, this country is getting the 2 fingers from so many countries.

    Must be a crowded space for the Irish gangsters criminal and paramilitary types?


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    #100
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    biko wrote: »
    Stats for that?
    Anyway that's fine - I'm sure the families of the abroad prisoners, as well as the prisoners themselves, would rather have the Irish spend their time in an Irish prison.

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69283290&postcount=73

    Somewhere earlier in the thread mentioned there were about 600 foreign nationals in Irish gaols.

    Why would they prefer to spend the time in Irish prisons???
    Sure they live abroad and their families are probably with them in Britain/France/Germany etc.


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    #101
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    If there are Irish 666 prisoner in UK that leave 100 or so elsewhere.
    From your first post to the most recent you've gone from "probably more prisoners" ot "There are more of ours abroad than theirs here thus costing us far more in the long run".

    My stats from 2007 says that's not so, do you have other numbers to support your theory?

    As to "Why would they prefer to spend the time in Irish prisons???" read this
    Hundreds of Irish people end up in jail in faraway countries. Ben Quinn reports on their nightmare come true

    The sweat of overcrowded cells, the sparse sanitation, not to mention the quiet terror of looking forward to a double-digit sentence - for anyone who has glimpsed Hollywood's hellish vision of prison life abroad, going to jail in a developing country is the ultimate traveller's nightmare.

    It's a thought that may or may not worry some of the thousands of young Irish people who now regard a stint backpacking through Southeast Asia or Latin America as a rite of passage before a lifetime of work in the comfortable west.

    But for hundreds of Irish people, that nightmare is a reality.

    Officially, a total of 765 Irish people are imprisoned abroad, for crimes ranging from the minor to the very serious. But that number is considered an underestimate of the real figure.
    We can only speculate on the real numbers so I'm just going with reported numbers.

    Anyway, it's not really the point here whether they want to go home or not - as it's not likely to happen.


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    #102
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    biko wrote: »
    If there are Irish 666 prisoner in UK that leave 100 or so elsewhere.
    From your first post to the most recent you've gone from "probably more prisoners" ot "There are more of ours abroad than theirs here thus costing us far more in the long run".

    My stats from 2007 says that's not so, do you have other numbers to support your theory?

    As to "Why would they prefer to spend the time in Irish prisons???" read this

    We can only speculate on the real numbers so I'm just going with reported numbers.

    Anyway, it's not really the point here whether they want to go home or not - as it's not likely to happen.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1130/1224284431332.html

    A nice quote from which is:
    Conditions in many prisons were “an insult to the dignity of any human being and an affront to the basic tenets of decency”. Prisoners were subject to overcrowding, drugs and violence.

    Your quote is relating to developing countries. I'm talking about EU member states, not Western Africa!

    The word probably need no longer be used when faced with the facts.
    There are around 3500 prisoners currently in Irish prisons, of which 10% are non national.

    So yeah, there are more Irish prisoners abroad than non-nationals in Irish prisons.


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    #103
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    There was in 2005 765 Irish prisoners abroad, this page shows it's EU and elsewhere. Just over 700 in UK.

    The same year 2005 non-Irish were 2185 out of 8686 - about 25%
    Page 10 http://www.irishprisons.ie/documents/Prisons_Report_2005.pdf

    As that was 5 years ago number will have changed but it show the relationship at one point in time.
    There are around 3500 prisoners currently in Irish prisons, of which 10% are non national.
    Can you link to these stats? I haven't seen them.

    Edit, a bit further digging I find this
    http://www.irishprisons.ie/documents/AnnualReport2009PDF.pdf
    Table 2.5: Nationality of persons in custody under sentence on 4 December 2009
    Show a single day, 3418. Out of those 89.2% were Irish.

    Table 2.10: Nationality as given by persons committed in 2009 & 2008
    Irish in 2008 was 70.3% and in 2009 75.6%

    So in 2005 we had 25% non-Irish in prison, in 2008 almost 30% and again in 2009 25%.
    The last census shows the number of non-Irish living in Ireland as a total of 420,000 living in Ireland in April 2006, representing 188 different countries.
    That's 10% of the 2006 population.


    This is getting off topic btw, this thread is about the Swiss vote.


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    #104
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    We have enough problems with our own criminals, why should we be looking after other peoples as well!?!?! I am terrified enough having to think of the Larry Murphy, I don't want to have to worry about any other nationality one as well! Also because of the EU rules regarding the free movement of people, Garda checks are seldom done and we have no idea of who we are allowing in! Get rid of the murderers, rapists, and other major criminals. I do believe we should take responsibility for our people who have committed crimes in other countries too! It is not Englands job to deal with our killers either!

    It is not xenophobic to say send criminals home. I am more than happy to leave law abiding foreigners here. If they are not contributing to the crime rates here, then they are welcome IMO:)


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    #105
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    So it seems some of you think that its ok to allow foreign criminals into Ireland because... we've plenty of Irish criminals!


    Great logic there :rolleyes:


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