Swiss sending home non swiss for certain crimes

Victor wrote: »

Care to rephrase?

why? they are and the UAE has no shame in showing that. you are looked down upon by the locals if you are from anywhere in Asia, its mostly Indian, Filipinos etc doing all the ****ty jobs over there. EU, US & Aussie aren't looked down upon so much as just un-approved. And while Dubai & Abu Dubai are more tolerant because of so much outside business etc the other emirates are a lot less open or tolerant.

Confab wrote: »

It's different in Switzerland. The people voted to expel non-national criminals. As a people, we will never, ever vote for anything like that. Why? because we aren't involved in the decision making process.

Unless you count voting the most popular person into the Dail 'decision making', that is.

True, the main difference is that the Swiss have "direct democracy", meaning that anybody can organise a petition through the proper channels and if enough people sign it, it will go to vote.

This has its positives and negatives. On one hand the people have a direct say in how the country is run. On the other hand parties like the SVP (the one responsible for this initiative) run campaigns based on politics of fear and appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Out of the people I have talked to about this many are proud to be Swiss and agree in principal with these initiatives, but nobody will admit to voting SVP because of the way that they conduct their campaigns. Somebody does though, they are the biggest party here.

Here are a few examples of their political posters so you can see what I mean:

Anti Minaret poster:
http://reason.com/assets/mc/mmoynihan/2009_10/svp_poster.jpg

Kicking out "foreign" criminals 1:
http://www.hurryupharry.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/svp_01a.jpg

Kicking out "foreign" criminals 2:
http://www.cepic.org/sites/cepic/assets/pictures/news/2010/SVP.png

Making it easier to become a Swiss citizen:
http://worldradio.ch/wrs/bm~pix/leadseries_svp_poster2008~s600x600.jpg

Pookah wrote: »

Would it be illegal to deport EU citizens under the Schengen Agreemnet?

Not necessarily, but I feel we've been through this before. I am fairly certain we have.

Pookah wrote: »

Rings a bell, alright. :pac:

What did we conclude?

The usual AH conclusion that everybody is correct, no matter what their opinion, or even whether they're right or not.

How about running a prison in Egypt or somewhere like that and putting ALL (Irish, EU, Foreign - all sorts) repeat offenders there? And run the prisons to local standard - that means no xfactor and football on telly and snooker tables etc. I would say it would be much cheaper than keeping them in prisons here right?

Yes, that's it - outsourcing the prisons. I think it will be great deterrent for criminals, and cheaper on the tax payer over all.

Well there are probably far more Irish in prison abroad than there are foreigners in prison in Ireland.

According to this article there are 666 Irish in gaol in Britain. So in total around the world its not hard to imagine that number could be reaching 1000.

So if all them came here to replace our foreign prisoners, we'd be losing out badly in that deal.

Firstly I was all for this idea to be introduced here - then I thought if the uk did the same we would have a huge influx of criminals - easily dwarfing the 600 non nationals listed here as in our jails



(im going to try and prove that later)

We have nigerian gangsters,albanian gangsters,russian gangsters, polish gangsters, latvian gangsters etc etc, so take your pick........

This country is a fcuking joke,these people are allowed into this country without any checks,and we still have these wolly jumper brigade who say....are sure didn't we go all over the world...yeah spot on, this country is getting the 2 fingers from so many countries.

Cherrycola wrote: »

In Dubai, you commit a crime, you serve your time, and then you're deported, end of. And no one bats an eyelid or questions them about xenophobia!
You abide by their rules or you're out on your ass, and for a lot less than murder in many cases! This has been their stance forever, foreigners are second class citizens. Ive lived there, i know the score.

The Swiss are dead right, i only wish Ireland would follow in their footsteps, and stop pussy-footing around minority groups, afraid of offending people. F**king grow a pair!! :mad:

I agree to a certain extent.
Kiss your husband in public and see what happens.

I do agree with their deportation laws though.

OPENROAD wrote: »

I agree, so maybe a European policy, which would also see Irish been sent back?

Of course, and why not?

stovelid wrote: »

A few dole frauds and non-national criminals wouldn't exactly be in my Deportation Greatest Hits at the moment but do keep on obsessing with the easy targets if you haven't been watching the news recently.

The Icelandic volcano exposed thousands of Polish scammers and saved the Irish tax payer millions. Let us not allow facts to get in the way of left wing hugging though.

Senna wrote: »

*Ideally* we should adopt and widen this proposal, anyone national or non-national should be kicked out of the country if they commit a serious crime. You break the law (murder, rape, armed theft etc), you forfeit your residency.

So you're proposing that people born in Ireland are to be deported?
That's really fúcking retarded.
Where are you going to send them? Alba?

charlemont wrote: »

All ill say about foreigners in jail here is that they dont get bail as often as an Irish person due to address /residency issues.. how many Irish people would be on remand for such offences as cigarette smuggling or been involved in fights.. The rate of coloured people in particular in jail for serious offences like murder or rape is very low..whereas i know there is a few eastern Europeans inside for violent crime ok..But a lot of these prison spaces are just remand prisoners, I agree that anyone here who commits violent crime or serious fraud should be kicked out but i wouldnt be in favour of someone being deported for such offences as possesion of cannabis or drunkiness..

Foreign people are more of a flight risk than Irish people. That's why they do not get bail. Bring in stricter passport controls and that will be changed.
However, if you do bring in stricter controls, then the human rights activists will bitch and moan.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

What if it is illegal where you are from but you committed it somewhere where it is legal?

When in Rome...

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

I think the swiss proposal is a good idea in theory.
as it acts like a great deterent for people from developing countries
The one think a crimnal(developing world) in a developed country fear
is deportation.
for example
Imagine a egyptian living in swizterland if he knows
that if he gets caught commiting massive social welfare fraud he will get deported it will deter him, far more than the threat short spell in a "cushy" swiss jail. I would much rather live in geneva than cario would u??
It will not happen here as there is no debate on immigration in the country.

In some other posts there appears to be a dispute in numbers
There are two ways to measure prison population

Snapshot
IF you take a snapshot of the prison population
you get an Irish % of between 85-90

Commitals
If you measure all prison commitals during year you get
a non-irish national prison commital popualtion of 34%


http://www.politics.ie/justice/135097-irelands-prison-population-non-irish-nationals-analysis.html

not yet wrote: »

We have nigerian gangsters,albanian gangsters,russian gangsters, polish gangsters, latvian gangsters etc etc, so take your pick........

This country is a fcuking joke,these people are allowed into this country without any checks,and we still have these wolly jumper brigade who say....are sure didn't we go all over the world...yeah spot on, this country is getting the 2 fingers from so many countries.

Politics.ie can suck my balls. Bunch of left wing lunatics.
In saying that, I do believe that repeat non-national criminals should be sent back to their country of origin.

@not yet; you're wrong. Really wrong.

not yet wrote: »

And your point being...?

How many people's attitudes, moral compass and motivations are directly tied to their pockets.

There are groups of people that arrive in Ireland with the sole purpose of committing criminal offences, I don't see why we would even entertain the thought of not deporting them for life.
We have enough scumbags here to keep the prisons full anyway.
Minor crimes - immediate deportation.
Major crimes - prison and then deported.
Compulsory DNA collection for any conviction of crime that gives prison time.

Probably a legal minefield but France has deported Eu nationals and Italy wants to.
Difference is that France and Italy target state benefit users/fraudsters.

Sunday August 22 2010
Italy wants to expel citizens of other EU states who live solely off state benefits, an interior minister said yesterday. The move, that would extend a crackdown on Roma people, was criticised by rights groups as discriminatory.
Interior Minister Roberto Maroni said the European Commission had denied Italy permission to pursue such a plan in the past but that he would resume lobbying and push for the change at a September 6 meeting of EU interior ministers.
This week, France sent dozens of Roma on flights home to Romania in a mass repatriation that it says is voluntary, though some said they were coerced to leave.
Applauding France's move, Mr Maroni, from the anti-immigrant Northern League party, said mandatory deportation of Roma, who do not meet basic requirements, should now be allowed.
"Yes, expulsions just like those for illegal immigrants, not assisted or voluntary repatriations," Mr Maroni told the Corriere della Sera daily yesterday.

prinz wrote: »

Yes, there are grounds to deport EU citizens. Just like Irish citizens could be deported from other EU countries. Financial status is a major one, but others could be argued too.

Sorry for my ignorance, but what do you mean - financial status?
Is there a list of grounds for deportation?

biko wrote: »

Deportation of criminal foreigners is cheaper than keeping them locked up here.
It also prevents them from entering/committing crime again.
After a while the foreign crime bosses will stop sending their minions here.
Well worth the expense.

If we deport theirs, then we must expect ours back.
There are more of ours abroad than theirs here thus costing us far more in the long run.

not yet wrote: »

We have nigerian gangsters,albanian gangsters,russian gangsters, polish gangsters, latvian gangsters etc etc, so take your pick........

This country is a fcuking joke,these people are allowed into this country without any checks,and we still have these wolly jumper brigade who say....are sure didn't we go all over the world...yeah spot on, this country is getting the 2 fingers from so many countries.

Must be a crowded space for the Irish gangsters criminal and paramilitary types?

If there are Irish 666 prisoner in UK that leave 100 or so elsewhere.
From your first post to the most recent you've gone from "probably more prisoners" ot "There are more of ours abroad than theirs here thus costing us far more in the long run".

My stats from 2007 says that's not so, do you have other numbers to support your theory?

As to "Why would they prefer to spend the time in Irish prisons???" read this

Hundreds of Irish people end up in jail in faraway countries. Ben Quinn reports on their nightmare come true

The sweat of overcrowded cells, the sparse sanitation, not to mention the quiet terror of looking forward to a double-digit sentence - for anyone who has glimpsed Hollywood's hellish vision of prison life abroad, going to jail in a developing country is the ultimate traveller's nightmare.

It's a thought that may or may not worry some of the thousands of young Irish people who now regard a stint backpacking through Southeast Asia or Latin America as a rite of passage before a lifetime of work in the comfortable west.

But for hundreds of Irish people, that nightmare is a reality.

Officially, a total of 765 Irish people are imprisoned abroad, for crimes ranging from the minor to the very serious. But that number is considered an underestimate of the real figure.

We can only speculate on the real numbers so I'm just going with reported numbers.

Anyway, it's not really the point here whether they want to go home or not - as it's not likely to happen.