Christians should not celebrate Halloween.

djpbarry · 25-10-2007 11:40pm

BrianCalgary wrote: »

What PDN is doinghere is showing thepotential danger of allowing your kids out at night unattended.

That's just common sense - it is not directly related to Halloween.

BrianCalgary · 25-10-2007 11:44pm

djpbarry wrote: »

That's just common sense - it is not directly related to Halloween.

Well yeah it is. Hallowe'en is the only night of the year where trick-or-treat takes place and a whole wack of young children are out in the dark.

Rev Hellfire · 25-10-2007 11:52pm

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Well yeah it is. Hallowe'en is the only night of the year where trick-or-treat takes place and a whole wack of young children are out in the dark.

I think you're wrong on that, if a parent is prepared to let a kid go out on Halloween unattended they'll let them out unattended other nights as well.
Added to which the people seem to be living in at perpetual state of fear these days, the number of paedophile's has (I'd assume) increased since you where a kid, we need to be brave enough to allow kids enjoy their childhoods.

Scofflaw · 25-10-2007 11:54pm

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Well yeah it is. Hallowe'en is the only night of the year where trick-or-treat takes place and a whole wack of young children are out in the dark.

Still, nothing about Hallowe'en requires that they be unattended - so the argument is a little like saying you're against Hallowe'en because a kid in a costume might drink bleach - sure, they might, but it has nothing to do with Hallowe'en.

Anyway, trick or treating, bleugh. American thing, and the whole 'dressing up and candy' is too commercially oriented - it's like a Hallmark Holiday for the sweet manufacturers. Where are my bob-apples and apple on a string, and the (un)lucky dip?

cordially,
Scofflaw

djpbarry · 25-10-2007 11:57pm

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

if a parent is prepared to let a kid go out on Halloween unattended they'll let them out unattended other nights as well.

Agreed.

Scofflaw wrote: »

Anyway, trick or treating, bleugh. American thing, and the whole 'dressing up and candy' is too commercially oriented - it's like a Hallmark Holiday for the sweet manufacturers. Where are my bob-apples and apple on a string, and the (un)lucky dip?

Not saying I'm a fan of Halloween myself, but, if it's not doing anyone any harm and it's making some kids happy, then it can't very well be bad, can it?

Fanny Cradock · 26-10-2007 12:01am

Scofflaw wrote: »

Where are my bob-apples and apple on a string, and the (un)lucky dip?

cordially,
Scofflaw

The good old days!

For that you'll need either a time machine or a basin, water, string and apples - whichever is easier.

Scofflaw · 26-10-2007 12:03am

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

The good old days!

For that you'll need either a time machine or a basin, water, string and apples - whichever is easier.

When you've no TV, it's funny how your children don't expect a fancy costume and trick or treating.

cordially,
Scofflaw

PDN · 26-10-2007 12:28am

djpbarry wrote: »

PDN did bring it up:

He also brought up homophobia and wife-beating. I don't know what any of this has to do with Halloween.

Homophobia and wife-beating has nothing to do with Halloween. It is, however, relevant to the issue of censorship (an issue that you raised). I was, as you well know, referring to certain types of rap music that glorifies such things and explaining that it is perfectly reasonable for a church to censor what it exposes children to. Anyone who was interested in having an adult discussion could see that easily enough.

PDN · 26-10-2007 12:31am

Scofflaw wrote: »

Still, nothing about Hallowe'en requires that they be unattended - so the argument is a little like saying you're against Hallowe'en because a kid in a costume might drink bleach - sure, they might, but it has nothing to do with Hallowe'en.

Anyway, trick or treating, bleugh. American thing, and the whole 'dressing up and candy' is too commercially oriented - it's like a Hallmark Holiday for the sweet manufacturers. Where are my bob-apples and apple on a string, and the (un)lucky dip?

Nothing about Halloween requires that kids are unattended when they go trick and treating. However, such unattended visits to the doors of strangers does happen a lot at Halloween, so it is relevant to the discussion.

Scofflaw · 26-10-2007 1:19am

PDN wrote: »

Nothing about Halloween requires that kids are unattended when they go trick and treating. However, such unattended visits to the doors of strangers does happen a lot at Halloween, so it is relevant to the discussion.

I've nothing really to say in favour of 'trick-or-treating' myself, but it too is not a necessary part of Hallowe'en.

Would you also be against carol-singing, and for the same reasons?

cordially,
Scofflaw

PDN · 26-10-2007 2:22am

Scofflaw wrote: »

Would you also be against carol-singing, and for the same reasons?

Yes, kids going carol singing is nothing more than a form of begging. I would be against it for the same reasons in that;
a) It is dangerous to encourage kids to go to strangers' houses.
b) It encourages anti-social behaviour in later life (begging, not singing).

Besides, most Christmas carols, with one or two honourable exceptions, are absolute crap both lyrically and musically.

For purely personal reasons I inconsistently and hypocritically grant an exemption to the Salvation Army in my otherwise blanket condemnation of carol singers.

Run_to_da_hills · 26-10-2007 6:47am

PDN wrote: »

Yes, kids going carol singing is nothing more than a form of begging. I would be against it for the same reasons in that;
a) It is dangerous to encourage kids to go to strangers' houses.
b) It encourages anti-social behaviour in later life (begging, not singing).

Besides, most Christmas carols, with one or two honourable exceptions, are absolute crap both lyrically and musically.

For purely personal reasons I inconsistently and hypocritically grant an exemption to the Salvation Army in my otherwise blanket condemnation of carol singers.

Carol singing is also a scam with travellers and I would be wary of them.

djpbarry · 26-10-2007 10:15am

PDN wrote: »

Homophobia and wife-beating has nothing to do with Halloween. It is, however, relevant to the issue of censorship (an issue that you raised).

I suggested that you were "censoring" Halloween, and you agreed. You also "censor anything that glorifies gun culture, violence against women, racism etc. " and criticise parents who's kids are "listening to rap with lyrics about killing gays or beating up women".

Based on the manner in which you made these references, it would appear to me that you were implying that Halloween is right up there with all those other "evils". No?

I'd be interested to find out more about this "rap with lyrics about killing gays".

PDN wrote: »

I was, as you well know, referring to certain types of rap music that glorifies such things

I am being totally genuine here. I have never, in my life, heard a rap artist "sing" about "killing gays". It seems to me that you are imposing blanket bans on the kids based on your own misconceptions.

PDN wrote: »

Anyone who was interested in having an adult discussion could see that easily enough.

No need to start throwing insults - let's set a good example for the children.

PDN wrote: »

Nothing about Halloween requires that kids are unattended when they go trick and treating. However, such unattended visits to the doors of strangers does happen a lot at Halloween, so it is relevant to the discussion.

Bad parents will practice bad parenting at any time of the year. So, the issue is bad parents, rather than Halloween.

Scofflaw · 26-10-2007 10:24am

PDN wrote: »

Yes, kids going carol singing is nothing more than a form of begging. I would be against it for the same reasons in that;
a) It is dangerous to encourage kids to go to strangers' houses.
b) It encourages anti-social behaviour in later life (begging, not singing).

I'm amazed, but I don't think I'm going to actually take up the cudgels on this one.

PDN wrote: »

Besides, most Christmas carols, with one or two honourable exceptions, are absolute crap both lyrically and musically.

Admittedly true...

PDN wrote: »

For purely personal reasons I inconsistently and hypocritically grant an exemption to the Salvation Army in my otherwise blanket condemnation of carol singers.

I hope it's not the uniforms, anyway!

cordially,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw · 26-10-2007 10:27am

djpbarry wrote: »

I'd be interested to find out more about this "rap with lyrics about killing gays".
I am being totally genuine here. I have never, in my life, heard a rap artist "sing" about "killing gays". It seems to me that you are imposing blanket bans on the kids based on your own misconceptions.

No misconception about rap music can be as bad as actual rap music.

euphoniously,
Scofflaw

djpbarry · 26-10-2007 11:02am

Scofflaw wrote: »

No misconception about rap music can be as bad as actual rap music.

Not saying I'm a fan, just curious

.

PDN · 26-10-2007 11:11am

djpbarry wrote: »

I'd be interested to find out more about this "rap with lyrics about killing gays". I am being totally genuine here. I have never, in my life, heard a rap artist "sing" about "killing gays". It seems to me that you are imposing blanket bans on the kids based on your own misconceptions.

For some examples of homophobic rap lyrics check out http://www.phatfamily.org/dadislist.html

Jamaican dancehall music is another form of rap. Both Beanie Man and Elephant Man, who feature on 2fm playlists, are notorious for lyrics that advocate killing gays.

djpbarry · 26-10-2007 11:30am

PDN wrote: »

Both Beanie Man and Elephant Man, who feature on 2fm playlists, are notorious for lyrics that advocate killing gays.

Ok, fair enough. Like I said, I'm not a fan of rap music, I was genuinely curious.

Run_to_da_hills · 26-10-2007 11:40am

PDN wrote: »

For some examples of homophobic rap lyrics check out http://www.phatfamily.org/dadislist.html

Jamaican dancehall music is another form of rap. Both Beanie Man and Elephant Man, who feature on 2fm playlists, are notorious for lyrics that advocate killing gays.

There is NO argument that Rap originated with the Devil's crowd, in the crime infested ghettos of New York, so what would you expect. Satan works through music lyrics, As a DJ I am well aware of lyrics that premote racism, murder, hatred, suicide, rebellion, drugs etc etc. Speaking of Rap there is actually such thing as "Christian Rap",

djpbarry · 26-10-2007 11:47am

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There is NO argument that Rap originated with the Devil's crowd, in the crime infested ghettos of New York, so what would you expect. Satan works through music lyrics

Bit of an unfair generalisation there.

Run_to_da_hills · 26-10-2007 12:02pm

djpbarry wrote: »

Bit of an unfair generalisation there.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck,then it is a duck

Owen · 26-10-2007 12:05pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Satan works through music lyrics

How ironic that one of the CC's most poignant works of Music has the line "Suffer little children". Satan really worked his magic on that one!

Obviously the above post is meant to jest, but it makes you think eh RTDH? When you have a mind as closed and as passionate about a cause as yours is, it is truly possible to see the bad in anything, and jump to conclusions quite easily.

Zombrex · 26-10-2007 12:13pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There is NO argument that Rap originated with the Devil's crowd

What, black people?

Yeah its about now I start tuning out and thanking Jesus I'm an atheist ... :rolleyes:

LouOB · 26-10-2007 12:28pm

Apologies to all but i have not come across any nake fun loving pagans parading around a bonfire on 'all hallows eve' ever though it would much delight some neighbourhoods and local teens.
The plain fact here is that Halloween has come WAY too commercialised. Gone are the days when your mother poped a black bag on your head. It is just a money racket - thats where the evil lies. Why bend to your child/children/commericialism to spend $$$ on unless items. Come on.

Id rather dance around naked at bonfire - ehehehehehehe (wicked witch laugh -why not)

djpbarry · 26-10-2007 12:31pm

LouOB wrote: »

Id rather dance around naked at bonfire - ehehehehehehe (wicked witch laugh -why not)

Second that.

mossieh · 26-10-2007 12:31pm

Some christian rap...oh dear:

Meet the God who died for me enduring all the verbal mockery - Got to be cause He loves me like women love a shoppin’ spree - His agape be the love that got to me, He adopted me - Now I’m in the family and I’m God’s property - And periodically some youth will want to copy me - As I copy the Savior so no more living sloppily - And as I start to get wobbly, God’ll be - Mercy and Grace the ultimate team like cheese and broccoli - They make up for what we lack ‘cause of our poverty - Fills in the gaps and the cracks up in our pottery - I believe I’mma die for sure not probably - "Or you can get raptured" --- you’re right, possibly - But I’mma share my philosophy, logically - I know I don’t want hell Galapagos are too hot for me - If it’s not for free and salvation’s got a fee - I can’t stand it I’m like Titanic out to sea - Sure to be abandoned like bad stocks will be - But no need cause Christ hit the jackpot for me á That’s why I love Him.

Run_to_da_hills · 26-10-2007 12:34pm

Wicknight wrote: »

What, black people?

Yeah its about now I start tuning out and thanking Jesus I'm an atheist ... :rolleyes:

Just as Rap origionally incorporated hatred and rebellion into much of their music the same goes for much of metal and rock which has also originated from the Devils crowd, such as Led Zeppline, the Stones, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath (Ozzy Ozbourne) ETC. All of the above were greatly influenced by Aleister Cowley a well known Satanist .

LouOB · 26-10-2007 12:39pm

so'run to da hills' you are condoning fear tactics to be used in christianity but their kids cannot dress up for halloween or play bob the apple?

but hippocritical then huh

Scofflaw · 26-10-2007 12:39pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

Carol singing is also a scam with travellers and I would be wary of them.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There is NO argument that Rap originated with the Devil's crowd, in the crime infested ghettos of New York, so what would you expect.

Do you do 'tolerance' at all?

curious,
Scofflaw

djpbarry · 26-10-2007 12:44pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Just as Rap origionally incorporated hatred and rebellion into much of their music the same goes for much of metal and rock which has also originated from the Devils crowd, such as Led Zeppline, the Stones, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath (Ozzy Ozbourne) ETC. All of the above were greatly influenced by Aleister Cowley a well known Satanist .

Led Zeppelin rock(ed).
The Stones rock(ed).
Iron Maiden ROCK!

Guess that makes me a Satanist

.

Zombrex · 26-10-2007 12:44pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Just as Rap origionally incorporated hatred and rebellion into much of their music

Which artists are you referring to specifically?

toiletduck · 26-10-2007 12:46pm

LouOB wrote: »

Gone are the days when your mother poped a black bag on your head.

Ah the good ol' pre-Celtic Tiger days. A bin bag with head and arm holes coupled with a mask bought in Dunnes the previous year.

I don't see why Chrsitians shouldn't 'celebrate' Halloween, I mean as has been pointed out it did not originate as worshipping of Satan or whatever.

Run_to_da_hills · 26-10-2007 12:47pm

Scofflaw wrote: »

Do you do 'tolerance' at all?
curious,
Scofflaw

I worked with travellers in the past, they are perhaps the most craftiest people in the country. Who else could plonk a caravan on the side of the road in Dunsink lane and end up with the cash price of a large detached house in Dublin a few years later while the rest of us are struggling.

LouOB · 26-10-2007 12:49pm

ahh but have you witnessed any pagan/satan activities other than their tv being larger than the caravan?

PDN · 26-10-2007 1:01pm

LouOB wrote: »

but hippocritical then huh

Prejudice against hippopotami? Such intolerance!

LouOB · 26-10-2007 1:06pm

how can you be tolerant of hippocritcs?
Its like a pun

Zombrex · 26-10-2007 1:12pm

the word is "hypocrite"

LouOB · 26-10-2007 1:14pm

ah well

PDN · 26-10-2007 1:15pm

LouOB wrote: »

how can you be tolerant of hippocritcs?
Its like a pun

It's a wonderful pun. Very Gary Larson-esque.

Nevyn · 26-10-2007 1:16pm

Trick or treating or sharing the harvest never struck me as being particular pagan.
Yes my children will be out in costume on the 31st but I find the 'stranger danger' accusations to be daft. They will be going to nieghbours houses accompanied by one of thier parents and the children of those neighbours will be calling here.

It is a good way to connect with your niehgbours and those in your community ahead of the long winter to come.

Run_to_da_hills · 26-10-2007 1:27pm

djpbarry wrote: »

Led Zeppelin rock(ed).
The Stones rock(ed).
Iron Maiden ROCK!

Guess that makes me a Satanist .

Been to the Stones, Maiden and Manson live myself in the past and still have probably nearly every album they had ever produced, however they are not my sceen anymore. I mentioned before that Nicko McBrain is supposingly a born again Christian, I cannot understand why he is still in the band. http://www.godscare.net/witness/Iron%20Maiden.htm

Owen · 26-10-2007 1:33pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I mentioned before that Nicko McBrain is supposingly a born again Christian, I cannot understand why he is still in the band.

Maybe he feels that making people happy by playing the music they love is a Christian act indeed.

Zombrex · 26-10-2007 1:34pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I mentioned before that Nicko McBrain is supposingly a born again Christian, I cannot understand why he is still in the band.

Probably because they aren't actually Satan worshipers ...

26-10-2007 1:45pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Just as Rap origionally incorporated hatred and rebellion into much of their music the same goes for much of metal and rock which has also originated from the Devils crowd, such as Led Zeppline, the Stones, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath (Ozzy Ozbourne) ETC. All of the above were greatly influenced by Aleister Cowley a well known Satanist .

Singing a song about LOTR makes them devils crowd?
lmao.

djpbarry · 26-10-2007 1:49pm

Wicknight wrote: »

Probably because they aren't actually Satan worshipers ...

:eek:

Say it isn't so!

Nevyn · 26-10-2007 3:10pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

All of the above were greatly influenced by Aleister Cowley a well known Satanist

Okay then, please cite your scources that Aleister Crowley was a satanist.

BrianCalgary · 26-10-2007 3:19pm

ned78 wrote: »

How ironic that one of the CC's most poignant works of Music has the line "Suffer little children". Satan really worked his magic on that one!

Obviously the above post is meant to jest, but it makes you think eh RTDH? When you have a mind as closed and as passionate about a cause as yours is, it is truly possible to see the bad in anything, and jump to conclusions quite easily.

In this context the word 'suffer' means 'allow' or 'let'. The KJV uses suffer.

In our modern day language the correct translation is 'let the children come to me'. The disciples were at the time preventing the children from what they thought was bothering Jesus. And Jesus response was 'let them come to me'.

Run_to_da_hills · 26-10-2007 3:21pm

Wicknight wrote: »

Probably because they aren't actually Satan worshipers ...

Why would one name a rock group after a spiked body case used to torture people to death?.

Iron Maiden's favorite subjects to sing about are sorcery and savagery. Their fascination with the occult is evident on albums like "POWER SLAVE", which delves in Egyptian mysticism and magic. On their Album, "SEVENTH SON OF THE SEVENTH SON", lead singer and lyricist Bruce Dickinson belts out songs about demons and creatures of insanity. The album cover depicts Eddie, the Iron Maiden mascot symbolizing death, hovering above a gloomy civilization. In his hand he holds a ripped-out heart, which is also chained to his rib cage. http://images.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://991.com/newGallery/Iron-Maiden-Seventh-Son-Of-A-338763.jpg&imgrefurl=http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp%3Fcatalogid%3D338763&h=350&w=342&sz=32&hl=en&start=7&um=1&tbnid=87SaZCKftQT9SM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=117&prev=/images%3Fq%3DIron%2BMaiden:%2B7Th%2BSon%2Bof%2Ba%2B7Th%2Bson%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN On the other side of the LP, Eddie writes in a journal by the light of monstrous candles with a crystal ball before him.

Iron Maiden celebrates the number seven which astrologists credit as the number of the moon, in the SEVENTH SON OF A SEVENTH SON". In a song called, "THE CLAIRVOYANT", Dickinson relates the struggle between God and the devil for a telepathic child's soul.The boy falls in love with the devil's daughter and eventually kills himself in the song, "ONLY THE GOOD DIE YOUNG". Their first claim to fame was the album, "NUMBER OF THE BEAST", which featured a song dedicated tot he Antichrist.

They burnt the Irish tri colour at a concert in the north back in the 80ies, they apologised for this, I accept their apologies and never had a problem playing their music however I almost ended up in a fight while playing them at a rock night over this. You can check for yourselves any of their the Lyrics. http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Iron-Maiden-lyrics/66D2A1130B64E80D4825699D0029BD7D

Son Goku · 27-10-2007 6:05pm

PDN wrote: »

The entire concept of trick or treating is that of the protection racket - give us what we want or we'll make you suffer in some way.

Can I ask did any of you take part in Halloween as children? Even though you can abstract trick and treating and distill the concepts above, real trick or treating is only a mess/joke. I remember I used to go to my neighbours with my brother and sister and fool them with a puzzle.

I understand Jimitime's point of being wary of it as a Christian. I just remember it being a day when my Dad used to try and scare us, then he'd take us around my hometown to get sweets. Usually dressed as Batman or some such. Afterwards we'd sit around the bonfire (which is lovely on a cold night). I always remember it as the most "innocent" childish fun I used to have. Which is why I find the way it's being discussed here as kind of odd.

Again I understand Jimitime's point, that he is simply wary of it, due to God's instructions. However I think most of the other points being raised against Halloween are a bit over dramatic.

Asiaprod · 27-10-2007 6:16pm

Son Goku wrote: »

Again I understand Jimitime's point, that he is simply wary of it, due to God's instructions. However I think most of the other points being raised against Halloween are a bit over dramatic.

+1

Christians should not celebrate Halloween.

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