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Irish language?

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  • 23-03-2010 5:43pm
    #1
    dr gonzo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭


    (mods please move if this shouldnt be here)

    A mate(A boards moderator in fact) and i agree to disagree about the Irish language, he thinks its dead and we should move on which ill admit, irritates me a little because i think its something important to hang on to.

    I fully understand that its not widely spoken and therefore all the irish usage in our society is not for better comprehension but merely cultural. On top of that its rich of me to say its important when I dont even speak it but thats why i want to get the general consensus.

    Is it worth keeping or should we just be rid of it?

    Should the Irish language remain an important part of our society? 417 votes

    Of course, its our heritage and something to be proud of!
    0% 0 votes
    Its useless and nothing more then a vestigial throwback to times we've evolved past
    73% 307 votes
    I like it but its current saturation in our society is too much and should be lessened.
    26% 110 votes


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Comments

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    #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dr gonzo wrote: »
    (
    Is it worth keeping or should we just be rid of it?

    Not worth keeping if we don't use it! As a learner I do try to speak it from time to time a cúpla focal but it's very rare that it gets any further.


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    #3
    fro9etb8j5qsl2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭fro9etb8j5qsl2


    i think it should be kept and the government should fund more programmes that would encourage people to speak it more often. it's part of our national identity and its such a shame that so few people use it on a daily basis. i might be wrong, but i've never heard of any other case where a country was invaded and the national language wiped out of almost the entire population....


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    #4
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    It's fierce handy for talking about foreigners without them knowing what we're saying.


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    #5
    bambera
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭bambera


    séa


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    #6
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Millie Whispering Huntsman wrote: »
    i might be wrong, but i've never heard of any other case where a country was invaded and the national language wiped out of almost the entire population....
    Try any number of countries actually. The first words on the moon spoken by an american werent in Navajo. Even in these islands, how many speak pict or cornish or manx? Languages come and go and evolve. Nature of the beast.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #7
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,425 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    The problem lies with how we are educates with it in schools. By the time you do your leaving, most people think it's pointless and more of a "joke" language.

    There needs to be appreciation of the language first before it's accepted as part of society.

    My daughter goes to an Irish School, and I feel that she is part of a community that is traditional, but also made a mockery of due to it's perception in modern society.


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    #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Millie Whispering Huntsman wrote: »
    i might be wrong, but i've never heard of any other case where a country was invaded and the national language wiped out of almost the entire population....

    Most of the native Americans (north and south) have lost their languages along with Aboriginies, as well as many Afriacan nations.

    The process of "language shift" is still happening in many African states, anothe generation and the first language in many African countries will be english


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    #9
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    It's dead and time we gave it the burial it deserves


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    #10
    Dionysus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    anothe generation and the first language in many African countries will be english

    Or Chinese, probably Chinese the way things are going there now. The pace and depth of Chinese involvement in Africa at the moment is astonishing, and scary.


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    #11
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    These types of polls have been run in many shapes and forms.

    I'm a big fan of the Irish language, and took it upon myself 3 years ago to learn it - and have done so to a decent level at this point. (Although there is always more I can learn).

    I feel the education needs to be revamped with more focus on spoken Irish - with spoken Irish being a unique subject, and grammar being made optional at leaving cert level, with conversational Irish remaining as part of the curriculum. This takes less pressure off students, and helps develop grá don teanga and give students the ability to speak the language. Teach it as a language, not as a subject.


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    #12
    Trashbat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 489 ✭✭Trashbat


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    It's fierce handy for talking about foreigners without them knowing what we're saying.


    so is having a Cork accent, to be fair.


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    #13
    dr gonzo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭dr gonzo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Most of the native Americans (north and south) have lost their languages along with Aboriginies, as well as many Afriacan nations.

    The process of "language shift" is still happening in many African states, anothe generation and the first language in many African countries will be english

    Yeh i dont think theres much doubt that were the Irish government to stop keeping it a cultural imperative to maintain Irish it would die out quick enough.


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    #14
    DazMarz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭DazMarz


    I think it's something that is never going to be used much in the mainstream again. I'm a fluent Irish speaker, but have to admit I'm a bit embarrassed by the extent that it is pushed in our society... For example:

    -In Madrid, on the underground and everywhere, all public service notices are in Spanish, French, German, Italian and English. That is brilliant, IMO, for everyone who would visit Spain, as the chances of people not speaking even the most limited form of one of those languages is slim. What do we have on our signs here? English and Irish. Fúck sake...


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    #15
    Dionysus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    DazMarz wrote: »
    In Madrid, on the underground and everywhere, all public service notices are in Spanish, French, German, Italian and English. That is brilliant, IMO, for everyone who would visit Spain, as the chances of people not speaking even the most limited form of one of those languages is slim. What do we have on our signs here? English and Irish. Fúck sake...

    Having Irish on all the signs is one of the most refreshing and nicest things about living in modern Ireland.


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    #16
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The people that voted in favour of the language, if I may ask a question? How many can speak it? If not why not, if you support it? The language is more likely to die from an excess of lip service, than it will thrive by moving lips as Gaelige.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #17
    neil_hosey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭neil_hosey


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Most of the native Americans (north and south) have lost their languages along with Aboriginies, as well as many Afriacan nations.

    The process of "language shift" is still happening in many African states, anothe generation and the first language in many African countries will be english

    and do you think this is a good thing?

    In my opinion its devastating to a culture and a country. If you look around the world, you can identify many countries from the language they speak, its part of their culture, europe being a prime example. Even if you look around europe look at the number of countries who dont speak their native language as their first language. Is there even 3 or 4? with ireland being the biggest?

    Either way, the only way irish will be saved is by people using it on a daily basis. There are so many ways to improve the usage of irish but theres 2 many idiots in charge who clearly for past 80 odd years never bothered gettin their fingers out of their árses

    Is beatha teanga í a labhairt.


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    #18
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Wibbs wrote: »
    The people that voted in favour of the language, if I may ask a question? How many can speak it? If not why not, if you support it? The language is more likely to die from an excess of lip service, than it will thrive by moving lips as Gaelige.

    I can only speak on my own behalf.

    I can speak Irish, and started learning it off my own back 3 years ago. I created the only conversational group in my city, and have run it it for 3 years. I've promoted the language at every cost here, writing articles in the newspaper - and marketing our irish nights. I've attended marches and protests for the language - driving often as far as 6 hours to Belfast for the Acht na Gaeilge march.

    I always wish I could do more - but there's only so much I can do with college and a part time job. Everyone else who's involved in the language that I know puts in alot of effort into promoting it, and really loves the language - wishing that they could do more.


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    #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    neil_hosey wrote: »
    and do you think this is a good thing?

    No, I was just stating a fact! It is sad fact that in the past couple of centuries the number of spoken languages in the world has probably fallen by about 70% (wild guess, it could be more), along with the unique culture of those peoples as well.


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    #20
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    orourkeda wrote: »
    It's dead and time we gave it the burial it deserves

    Why does it deserve it? Just becasue some languages come and go why should some be allowed to?
    I think it has a very bad image problem (and the muppets behind the education didn't help) and is not an attractive language to listen too, like French or Italian.
    But it's part of the culture and I find it hilarious that people have this attitude. I think it comes down to what Irish culture is also?


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    #21
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No, I was just stating a fact! It is sad fact that in the past couple of centuries the number of spoken languages in the world has probably fallen by about 70% (wild guess, it could be more), along with the unique culture of those peoples as well.

    But the empires that destroyed those languages are gone, I really don't get the disdain for the language.


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    #22
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    fontanalis wrote: »
    But the empires that destroyed those languages are gone, I really don't get the disdain for the language.

    I understand why some people aren't warm to the language.

    13 years of studying it and not being able to speak it is going to really irk people, and rightfully so. Because of this, less people have an ability to speak it - and it's less visible in society - so many feel that the language has lost it's purpose.

    So you can either take the route of forgetting about it, and burying the language - or you can push for educational reform, and making it more visible in society again.


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    #23
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    neil_hosey wrote: »
    Either way, the only way irish will be saved is by people using it on a daily basis. There are so many ways to improve the usage of irish but theres 2 many idiots in charge who clearly for past 80 odd years never bothered gettin their fingers out of their árses

    Is beatha teanga í a labhairt.

    Language needs to be treated as a means of communication rather than a heratage/cultural thing, I think that is one of the main reasons it's dying on it's feet.


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    #24
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    dlofnep wrote: »
    I understand why some people aren't warm to the language.

    13 years of studying it and not being able to speak it is going to really irk people, and rightfully so. Because of this, less people have an ability to speak it - and it's less visible in society - so many feel that the language has lost it's purpose.

    So you can either take the route of forgetting about it, and burying the language - or you can push for educational reform, and making it more visible in society again.

    I think this is where it lies and the over the top jingoistic attitude to it held by some must go. But I think the disdain comes at an earlier stage than getting the 13 years. I remember the peolpe who were boasting about dropping it would be the same coming out with anti english shyte.


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    #25
    dr gonzo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭dr gonzo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Language needs to be treated as a means of communication rather than a heratage/cultural thing, I think that is one of the main reasons it's dying on it's feet.

    Well thats not necessarily true. With English, for example, already the language of business, entertainment and really just one of the worlds default languages it wouldnt be inconceivable for a country to change, which would be logical IF communication was all a country saw in their language but of course they dont and wont because its culturally very important to them.


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    #26
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    fontanalis wrote: »
    I think this is where it lies and the over the top jingoistic attitude to it held by some must go. But I think the disdain comes at an earlier stage than getting the 13 years.

    Well, it's obviously not a sudden thing that happens over night. It's something that gradually builds up. And let's be clear about it - not everybody hates the language. Most people I speak to are positive towards it. I especially notice this when randomers come over to express how it's nice to hear the language when we're on our nights out.

    There's not one single reason for the fall, or disdain as you put it for the language. But I think that the current education has alot to do with it. I think reform can really change the attitude towards the Irish language.


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    #27
    neil_hosey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭neil_hosey


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Language needs to be treated as a means of communication rather than a heratage/cultural thing, I think that is one of the main reasons it's dying on it's feet.

    Does it though? The one and only reason i think the language isnt spoken more is because of the way it is taught. Students unable to grasp any subject automatically hate it, and trying to understand the complicated imagery of something like Treall by Caitlin Maude! its completely feckin pointless!!

    The main focus should all be on speaking and the enjoyment of speaking one of the oldest languages in europe.


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    #28
    Krusader
    Registered Users Posts: 4,057 ✭✭✭Krusader


    As a young lad I failed my LC in Irish, had no use for it and never heard it been used. But as an adult learner I love it and always felt I had unfinished business with it and it is actually a really beautiful language when you begin to listen and learn it. And it ain't that hard really

    Go and join a class and have the craic and widen your circle of friends
    Labhair í agus mairfidh sí


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    #29
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Well, it's obviously not a sudden thing that happens over night. It's something that gradually builds up. And let's be clear about it - not everybody hates the language. Most people I speak to are positive towards it. I especially notice this when randomers come over to express how it's nice to hear the language when we're on our nights out.

    There's not one single reason for the fall, or disdain as you put it for the language. But I think that the current education has alot to do with it. I think reform can really change the attitude towards the Irish language.

    I remember in one of my history books reasons given for the decline were that people were expected to emigrate and so english was picked up early and the language was associated with poverty. Do you think these things might have rolled over into the 20th century?
    I also don't think for a minute Ireland will ever be a bi-lingual society but I just hope it might get to a stage where people don't call for it to be buried.


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    #30
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,329 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Wibbs wrote: »
    The people that voted in favour of the language, if I may ask a question? How many can speak it? If not why not, if you support it? The language is more likely to die from an excess of lip service, than it will thrive by moving lips as Gaelige.

    I send my kids to a Gaelscoil and with the growth of these schools I reckon in years to come the language will revive. Without it there's very little to define us as being Irish.


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    #31
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    I send my kids to a Gaelscoil and with the growth of these schools I reckon in years to come the language will revive. Without it there's very little to define us as being Irish.

    There's drink and . . . . NAMA


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