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M7 - Nenagh to Limerick

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Comments

  • #502
    Tragedy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    When is the Nenagh to Limerick section actually opening? Preparing to open isn't much use as dates go :p


  • #503
    knipex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    Tragedy wrote: »
    When is the Nenagh to Limerick section actually opening? Preparing to open isn't much use as dates go :p
    clon wrote: »
    for the whole scheme to open Limerick to nenagh by mid dec. 2009


    :D


  • #504
    Tragedy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    Oops, meant the dual carriageway bit that's quoted in the papers as opening momentarily.


  • #505
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Drove to Ennis via Limerick last weekend. My first time down that way. Some notes.

    - 1 hour from Red Cow to west of Portlaoise. Fantastic.
    - Rest of mway badly needed. Hit a traffic jam at Mountrath and sat in traffic for ~10 mins.
    - Rest of route freeflowing but not too fast. Didn't get stuck behind trucks.
    - Current N7 varies from WS with some perfectly straight sections to quite narrow.
    - Nenagh Bypass looking good. Nearly finished. Even signage was getting ready with gantries installed.
    - Section from Nenagh-Limerick badly needed. I thought I'd never arrive. Total journey time west Portlaoise-Limerick SRR : 1h 30.
    - Second phase of Limerick ring road badly needed. Diversions sent me down the M20, and when you come back, you have to go right into the city centre to get across the bridge. I'd estimate the completion of the ring will knock around 15 mins off a trans-Limerick journey. Much of this is due to temporary diversions.
    - First time I'd ever seen Limerick. It was night and the view from the Shannon bridge of the Clarion was awesome. Well done.
    - Tie-in of Ring proceeding slow enough on the N18.

    In total I'd say when the roads are all complete, you're looking at around a 45 min saving on a Dublin-Shannon trip. Spectacular. I can't wait to drive it again this time next year.


  • #506
    zilog_jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,638 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    Until the Shannon tunnel is finished, if you're trying to get to the northside of Limerick (or Clare, etc.) you're probably better off following the old N7 by taking the R445 on the new roundabout towards Annacotty and Castletroy. The current ring road is too much of a diversion IMO.


  • #507
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Drove to Ennis via Limerick last weekend. My first time down that way. Some notes.

    - 1 hour from Red Cow to west of Portlaoise. Fantastic.
    - Rest of mway badly needed. Hit a traffic jam at Mountrath and sat in traffic for ~10 mins.
    - Rest of route freeflowing but not too fast. Didn't get stuck behind trucks.
    - Current N7 varies from WS with some perfectly straight sections to quite narrow.
    - Nenagh Bypass looking good. Nearly finished. Even signage was getting ready with gantries installed.
    - Section from Nenagh-Limerick badly needed. I thought I'd never arrive. Total journey time west Portlaoise-Limerick SRR : 1h 30.
    - Second phase of Limerick ring road badly needed. Diversions sent me down the M20, and when you come back, you have to go right into the city centre to get across the bridge. I'd estimate the completion of the ring will knock around 15 mins off a trans-Limerick journey. Much of this is due to temporary diversions.
    - First time I'd ever seen Limerick. It was night and the view from the Shannon bridge of the Clarion was awesome. Well done.
    - Tie-in of Ring proceeding slow enough on the N18.

    In total I'd say when the roads are all complete, you're looking at around a 45 min saving on a Dublin-Shannon trip. Spectacular. I can't wait to drive it again this time next year.


    When I get a car I will be driving the Dublin Ennis road. This road is will be a mixture of old and new motorways with bits of dual carriegway. The scenery will be breathtaking on both the Castletown and L-N schemes. I am looking forward to drive the road from Moneygall to Borris in Ossary it does divert a fair bit away from the old road. The Old N7 is pretty scenic anyway as it is.


    Your first time in Limerick?:eek: Limerick city is absaloutley buzzing especially along the riverside now. I haven't seen it since they did up the riverside walks along the quays. It should be all lit up if your going over the Shannon bridge. It's meant to be pretty stunning. The city council are on Phase 3 of the works. So it's pretty exstensive. I don't live in Limerick but one should be very proud to be one living there. The river is it's best assets. Considering the Shannon is Ireland's wideest and longest river. It seems to be well noted as it passes through Limerick. I would love to see a few more interesting high rises along the Dock area.:D It's looking well as you come in from the N69 I have to admit.

    The Nenagh bypass with the once forgotten "Thurles interchange" will help the town greatly with removing at least a 1000 vehicles from the centre of the town.

    There is plans to build a northern ring road of Limerick. Phase 1 is meant to be starting soon. Which will link up Coonagh to Corbally. If this goes ahead, this will surely ease traffic on the old R445 through the northside. It will be a tough bet to see if existing commuters will opt for the M7 or take the old road through the city.

    A toll more than 2.00 euro is pushing it. If it goes over the toll won't work. I can't see people using it especially if your doing the Ennis to Dublin journey.


  • #508
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Drove to Ennis via Limerick last weekend. My first time down that way. Some notes.

    - 1 hour from Red Cow to west of Portlaoise. Fantastic.

    Great piece of motorway my favorite in the country. Landscape is top notch.
    - Rest of mway badly needed. Hit a traffic jam at Mountrath and sat in traffic for ~10 mins.
    - Rest of route freeflowing but not too fast. Didn't get stuck behind trucks.
    - Current N7 varies from WS with some perfectly straight sections to quite narrow.

    I agree Mountrath can be a very bad bottleneck but the rest of the N7 is generally good flowing for traffic probably the best of the inter urbans before the motorway construction. Roscrea to Nenagh is a little bad surface wise though.
    - Nenagh Bypass looking good. Nearly finished. Even signage was getting ready with gantries installed.
    - Section from Nenagh-Limerick badly needed. I thought I'd never arrive. Total journey time west Portlaoise-Limerick SRR : 1h 30.

    Yeah it's great to see the Nenagh bypass nearly open and ready for business, about time too! IMO I would have preferred the N-C scheme to be completed before N-L. I think current N-L is generally good some sections of slow lanes and the surface is good. Although N-C has better overtaking opportunities but the surface lets it down.
    - Second phase of Limerick ring road badly needed. Diversions sent me down the M20, and when you come back, you have to go right into the city centre to get across the bridge. I'd estimate the completion of the ring will knock around 15 mins off a trans-Limerick journey. Much of this is due to temporary diversions.

    Yeah the rossbrien interchange is being upgraded so you would have had to take either J2 or J3 on the M20. Taking J2 is okay for people that know the city but it can be a bit confusing for people that are not familiar with the route. 15 mins is about right even more at peak times maybe 20 to 30 mins.
    - First time I'd ever seen Limerick. It was night and the view from the Shannon bridge of the Clarion was awesome. Well done.
    - Tie-in of Ring proceeding slow enough on the N18.

    A lot of development has been put into the city over the last 10 years. The N18 bridge that takes you over the shannon is all lit up and some nice landmarks near the docks. The city centre itself has major parts of it redeveloped and there is plans for more to be done along O' Connell street.
    In total I'd say when the roads are all complete, you're looking at around a 45 min saving on a Dublin-Shannon trip. Spectacular. I can't wait to drive it again this time next year.

    I'd say every scheme on the route will be done except Nenagh to Castletown, that might slip into 2011 but the official date is now Dec 2010.


  • #509
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    Latest updates on M7 Nenagh - Limerick

    These two at Dromin north of the crossover of the current N7

    Looking East
    DSC02620.jpg

    Looking west
    DSC02618.jpg

    Overbridge south of the Nenagh bypass
    DSC02621.jpg

    Still central white line only below the R504 overbridge. The wearing course looks to be stretching on the eastbound carriageway from daly's cross to the south of the Nenagh bypass.

    I didn't get to look at the boggy section.


  • #510
    clon
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭clon


    Article in the Nenagh Guardian today about the problems with constructing the neneagh to Limerick M7 over the bog section on the Tipp/Limerick border.Talks of opening from Nenagh to Birdhill only first if they cannot solve bog section in time for December 09

    http://www.nenaghguardian.ie/news-detail.php?article=HPYY3L


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  • #511
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Wow, thanks Clon, great article.

    Sounds like the mother of all bogs, eh?
    Difficulties being experienced on the construction of a section of the M7 between Birdhill and Limerick are now being described as "serious".
    Entries in the files at the headquarters of the National Roads Authority (NRA), on the progress of the Limerick-Nenagh M7, which have been compiled by senior engineering staff are describing the problem which has been encountered at Drominboy (Lisnagry) as "serious" raising concerns within the authority on the completion date of the road and its future stability.
    Consideration is now being given by the NRA to a contingency plan to divert traffic between Nenagh and Limerick on to section of the old N7 between Birdhill and Annacotty, if a resolution to the difficulties cannot be completed in time for the planned opening of the remainder of the new M7 within the next two months.
    Presently most of the remainder of the road - except for this section of bog - has reached the final stages of completion with road lining now in progress as final preparations are made for the opening of the road, ten years after it was first proposed.
    While most of the road construction programmes in recent years have been completed several months ahead of schedule, the Limerick-Nenagh road is already running several months behind schedule. The original opening schedule had been set for the final week in May 2009.
    Originally it had been anticipated that in common with the general pattern, the road would have been completed and opened ahead of schedule. While there appeared to have been delays at various points and stages in the process, the biggest challenge has been constructing the road through some miles of bogland through three bogs between Birdhill and Lisnagry.
    With considerable difficulty the road has now been constructed through most of this terrain after tens of thousands of heavily steel reinforced concrete piles were driven to depths of more than 100 feet in an effort to establish a stable foundation for the road.
    The section remaining to be completed is about 1,000 metres in length through a very wet section of bog always known to be "bottomless" and where the warnings were handed down through the generations that it was a "no go area" for man or machinery.     Labelled by local residents recalling the familiar song "The Old Bog Road" as "the making of the new bog road" the section in question is through one of the most feared bog terrains in the county close to the Limerick-Tipperary border.
    Many stories are told of machinery which ventured on to the bog in the past and were sunk forever.
    One story is related of a man who was operating a heavy earth mover close to the bog and when he was finished in the evening a local man advised him not to leave the machine there overnight warning him "it won't be there in the morning".
    Ignoring the advice the operator left for home convinced it was nothing more than a tall story, but could not believe his eyes when he returned in the morning to find that the machine had disappeared without trace.     The locals maintained that it was not a case of the machine being stolen, but it had been sucked into the wet bog overnight, and was only one of a number of such incidences over the years.
    Engineering experts planning and working on the construction of the new road were the latest to ignore the advice of the local farmers and residents in the vicinity of the bog when they warned them about taking the route of the road through the bog which they regarded as very high risk, because of the information which had been handed down through the generations on the lethal nature of the section of bogland believed locally to be "bottomless" and highly dangerous.
    It was with a sense of disbelief that they heard the engineers claiming that the challenge ahead for the construction of the "bog road" would present no difficulty after the preferred route for the new M7 between Annacotty and Nenagh through a long stretch of bog was announced. At a cost estimated at several million euro beyond budget, the decision to run the road through the bog, is now being regarded as a major mistake, which has added huge additional cost to the construction.
    However, according to the NRA the contract awarded to the construction company, Bothar Hibernian was for "the design and build" of the road, and the NRA will not accept responsibility for the additional costs involved.
    A spokesperson for the NRA said "the bog was there when the contractor tendered for the work and nothing has changed to justify additional payments" because it was an already known aspect of the work and it was up to the contractor to take into account when submitting a tender.
    The heavy concrete piles support the road through long sections of the bog. However trying to stabilise the piles became a challenge in the worst area because of the wet nature of the terrain and the engineers are insisting on a stable foundation before signing off on the work.
    Several thousand cubic metres of maximum strength concrete has now been used to secure the foundation.
    A steel reinforced mass concrete 'cap" about 20 sq feet in area and nearly two feet high have been placed on each of the piles. Reinforced concrete has also been used to "tie” the “caps" together establishing a floor or concrete, more than two feet thick over some sections of the bog as the work now continues to resolved the difficulty and complete the road.
    With sections of the road ready for opening, and the remainder, with the exception of the stretch of bog, at the final stages of completion, there is a lot of concentration being focused now on the bog, which has become a hive of activity in recent weeks in a final attempt to make the new completion target date of this December.
    The NRA is increasingly concerned for the stability of the foundation for this section of the road, to sustain the traffic load over the coming years, and are therefore paying special attention to the progress of the work.     They are now putting in place a contingency plan in the event of the work not being completed for the December target date. This will feature the opening of the road between Nenagh and Birdhill, diverting the traffic at the Birdhill intersection back on to the old N7 at the Killaloe roundabout, before rejoining the M7 at Annacotty.
    The making of the "new bog road" has all of the ingredients for another version of the popular old song.


  • #512
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    That makes sense, I reckon that section buckled ( only from looking at Tech2s photos and rumours I heard ) and that they will have to dig the lot out ( certainly the concrete raft on top ) and redo it with new piles.

    They will possibly also have to dig out either side of it to prevent lateral bog heaves from pushing the piles across and buckling . They may as well design two separate carriageways with a wide median so that they could contraflow along one were there a future issue as they fix the other.

    Floating the road on piles across the bog is now a non runner but opening as much as possible for the winter is a good idea IMO.


  • #513
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    If they open it partially between Birdhill and Nenagh then that could be open in weeks.

    Still a pain driving from Birdhill to Annacotty on the old N7 though if the worst case scenario comes along.

    Could you imagine if it became so bad that they had to reroute that bit of M7 to avoid the bog.


  • #514
    AlanD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭AlanD


    tech2 wrote: »
    If they open it partially between Birdhill and Nenagh then that could be open in weeks.

    Still a pain driving from Birdhill to Annacotty on the old N7 though if the worst case scenario comes along.

    Could you imagine if it became so bad that they had to reroute that bit of M7 to avoid the bog.

    Oh I would love if they opened it to Birdhill. The spin from Limerick to there is not the worst I think.

    Would a bridge over the bog do the job but would be costly?


  • #515
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    AlanD wrote: »
    Would a bridge over the bog do the job but would be costly?

    A nice cable stayed bridge would be lovely , after all Waterford and Drogheda have one and Galway is getting one so why should Limerick miss out :p


  • #516
    Enbee
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭Enbee


    I wonder if they could learn anything from this project:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_10_in_Louisiana

    The section through the Atchafalaya Swamp (complete with bridge over one of the deepest rivers in the world) is quite amazing and was a hell of an engineering challenge. I've no idea what the terrain was like though but the freeway is just one long bridge and doesn't rest on a layer of piles.


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  • #517
    Aidan1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Aidan1


    bogland believed locally to be "bottomless" and highly dangerous.

    I'd love to see the geophysics the locals were working from. If it was "believed locally" to be haunted by fairies, would the Nenagh Guardian be be blaming them for damage to equipment?

    Seriously, local newspaper articles like this only serve to reinforce the 'local triumph over know it all outsiders' sterotype that so many in rural Ireland cling to as evidence of their ongoing relevance.

    Clearly there were issues with the initial survey work, and perhaps the route selection. But there is clearly no such thing as a 'bottomless' bog - if they were piling that deep, then they were piling into something. The approach the contracters and NRA are taking seems to be of the 'more gun' school - generally correct in the first instance. Here's hoping it works. The alternative is expensive ...


  • #518
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Totally agree. The article contains a good deal of folklore rather than fact; still, it is interesting. And of course there's no such thing as a bottomless bog. A large team of high-capacity excavators would soon demonstrate that.


  • #519
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    I found some photos of the M7/N7 from Kildare to Limerick on the polish forum of skyscrapercity. Hard to make out what their saying but I see Mountrath being quoted as a bad bottleneck! There is also parts of Ireland thrown in for good measure.

    http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=42852616&postcount=308


  • #520
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Furet wrote: »
    And of course there's no such thing as a bottomless bog.

    If there is it would have to be in Limerick where they would not think of looking for it :D

    Tech2 Took this picture below of the bog section recently which explains everything; the concrete 'deck' laid across the piles appears to have buckled and heaved ...probably because someone from Moyross stashed a load of cocaine in the bog and the fairies got their hands on it !

    DSC02580.jpg


  • #521
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    A nice cable stayed bridge would be lovely , after all Waterford and Drogheda have one and Galway is getting one so why should Limerick miss out :p

    :confused:


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  • #522
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,539 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    :confused:

    GCOB Corrib bridge might be cable stayed?


  • #523
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    MYOB wrote: »
    GCOB Corrib bridge might be cable stayed?

    It will be but it will be a low profile cable stayed bridge ....called an EXTRADOSED bridge design , not the funky Suir and Boyne varieties .

    From the EIS

    http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/RoadsandTraffic/Publications/FileEnglish,3244,en.pdf page 34 .
    A bridge with a main span of 150m is the option chosen to cross the River Corrib.

    The total length spanned is 465m with two spans either side of the main span. The bridge superstructure will be a single continuous cellular box girder with extradosed post tensioning to the main and side spans with pylons on the bridge centreline. The substructure comprises of abutments and piers. The foundations will be piled with the exception of the pier on the east river bank where a ground bearing foundation on bedrock is proposed.

    I was told by an engineer that it may look awfully like this as the structure has very thin piers and a continously curving deck ...not a straight one , piccie from wiki :cool:

    Sunnibergbruecke_nordwest.jpg


  • #524
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Aha ok.

    New Ross will be 3 tower Extrados, I was always under the impression (and had read somewhere) that Galway would be a 'pure' box girder.


  • #525
    nordydan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭nordydan


    tech2 wrote: »
    I found some photos of the M7/N7 from Kildare to Limerick on the polish forum of skyscrapercity. Hard to make out what their saying but I see Mountrath being quoted as a bad bottleneck! There is also parts of Ireland thrown in for good measure.

    http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=42852616&postcount=308

    Try google translate, he did a trip from dublin to cliffs of moher and another to the giants causeway. Some of the stuff is very funny (may need to browse a bit - i think single quote is translated)!


  • #526
    Roryhy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 368 ✭✭Roryhy


    nordydan wrote: »
    Try google translate, he did a trip from dublin to cliffs of moher and another to the giants causeway. Some of the stuff is very funny (may need to browse a bit - i think single quote is translated)!

    HAHA- Borris-in-Ossory, probably named after a Russian! Classic!


  • #527
    Geogregor
    Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Geogregor


    nordydan wrote: »
    Try google translate, he did a trip from dublin to cliffs of moher and another to the giants causeway. Some of the stuff is very funny (may need to browse a bit - i think single quote is translated)!

    He is writing all the basic stuff for those few Poles who are not in Ireland..... Just kidding ;)

    Most of the Polish forumers on the Skyscraper city are more familiar with continental roads (especially "legendary" German roads) so he wrote about different standards of your national roads system, how old N roads are declassified to local roads after opening of the motorways, a bit of history of different stretches of M7, few words about bottlenecks, narrow roads, hedges, horse racing, concrete central barier (that it is now standard on all new Irish motorways), he also writes about buiildig of the M7

    I've seen his few more posts about Irish roads.


  • #528
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    Great trip-journal, excellent photos.


  • #529
    nordydan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭nordydan


    Geogregor wrote: »
    He is writing all the basic stuff for those few Poles who are not in Ireland..... Just kidding ;)

    Most of the Polish forumers on the Skyscraper city are more familiar with continental roads (especially "legendary" German roads) so he wrote about different standards of your national roads system, how old N roads are declassified to local roads after opening of the motorways, a bit of history of different stretches of M7, few words about bottlenecks, narrow roads, hedges, horse racing, concrete central barier (that it is now standard on all new Irish motorways), he also writes about buiildig of the M7

    I've seen his few more posts about Irish roads.

    The comments about binge drinking and building Terminal 2 so that the Irish could all emigrate more quickly are very good!


  • #530
    Tragedy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    Did Dublin > Kerry, Kerry > Dublin in the last 24 hours.

    All I can say is: I hate Mountrath.


  • #531
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    nordydan wrote: »
    The comments about binge drinking and building Terminal 2 so that the Irish could all emigrate more quickly are very good!

    From Poland? I guess he was being ironic :cool:


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  • #532
    Geogregor
    Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Geogregor


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    From Poland? I guess he was being ironic :cool:

    Yes he is joking that while Irish are emigrating, Poles, Brazilians, Nigerians or Somalians are coming.
    Says something like: "Ireland was always known from quick turnover of the population"
    I don't know if you use Google translation guys but his comments are rather funny and not offensive. He is joking about Poles as well.


  • #533
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    :cool: Population turnover isn't far from the truth I recall a few years ago heading across to Holyhead just before Christmas and I was one of a handful of Irish in a sea of Poles and other Europeans; while we were waiting the ship disgorged an entire army of returning Irish home for the holidays.

    Did you say this chap did journals of other Irish road trips? Any links? :)


  • #534
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Ahem - back on topic please folks! :)


  • #535
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    The vast majority of this thread (formerly the M7 general thread) is about Nenagh to Limerick, so I've changed the thread title to reflect that. I'm going through the whole thing now and moving posts about the SRR Phase II to this thread and general M7 posts to here . I will also move C-N and M7/M8 posts to the proper threads in due course.

    In the meantime, Nenagh to Limerick only is to be discussed here, please. :)


  • #536
    MYSTICA1
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭MYSTICA1


    Hi, I asked someone who drove Limerick - Dublin over the weekend if the Nenagh bypass was fully open yet .. He said it was but I'm not convinced he had a clue what I was asking !! :rolleyes: Can anyone verify either way ? I was down that way recently & it didn't look like it was about to be opened that quickly!


  • #537
    roosterman71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,711 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    MYSTICA1 wrote: »
    Hi, I asked someone who drove Limerick - Dublin over the weekend if the Nenagh bypass was fully open yet .. He said it was but I'm not convinced he had a clue what I was asking !! :rolleyes: Can anyone verify either way ? I was down that way recently & it didn't look like it was about to be opened that quickly!

    No its not open. I drove to Limerick Saturday and its still under construction. Seems to be a decent bit of work to do on either end to tie in with the new Limerick motorway, and the current N7 at the Moneygall end.


  • #538
    blackwarrior
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭blackwarrior


    After that article in the Nenagh Guardian, I'd be very pessimistic on the Nenagh-Limerick motorway opening anytime in the next 6 months! Which is bad for me because I use it every day for work.

    Regarding the Nenagh bypass section, it looks almost ready after the railway underbridge west of Nenagh to the end of the project length, i.e. where it ties in with Nenagh-Castletown.

    Frankly I am sick of looking at this road every day. It teases me by crossing the old N7 three times between Finnegans' pub at Limerick and the Nenagh bypass!


  • #539
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Apparently construction in one tiny part of this road near the Gooig bog is going a bit slow, with difficulties with the construction of foundations at one bog area.


  • #540
    blackwarrior
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭blackwarrior


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Apparently construction in one tiny part of this road near the Gooig bog is going a bit slow, with difficulties with the construction of foundations at one bog area.

    One tiny part is enough to mess it up. Dublin-Galway motorway is going to be open in the spring; Dublin-Cork probably in the atumn.

    The last new piece of the Dublin-Limerick to open was back in 2004 (Monasterevin bypass!).

    This sinking road is going to become a national story soon enough I think. :(


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  • #541
    The Word Is Bor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 254 ✭✭The Word Is Bor


    blackwarrior wrote: »
    One tiny part is enough to mess it up. Dublin-Galway motorway is going to be open in the spring; Dublin-Cork probably in the atumn.

    The last new piece of the Dublin-Limerick to open was back in 2004 (Monasterevin bypass!).

    This sinking road is going to become a national story soon enough I think. :(

    It will be a while yet before Dublin-Limerick is completed.

    The N7 Nenagh-Limerick has already made national headlines. Expect a lot more in the next few years or so with arbitration/court cases.


  • #542
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Why didn't they just dig out the bog instead of trying to lend it solidity with the piles? Considering the amount of bulk earthworks and rock excavation done on the scheme, seriously, why didn't they just scoop the peat out of it?


  • #543
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,539 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Furet wrote: »
    Why didn't they just dig out the bog instead of trying to lend it solidity with the piles? Considering the amount of bulk earthworks and rock excavation done on the scheme, seriously, why didn't they just scoop the peat out of it?

    Because they'd need to fill it with something?

    Also I guess if they didn't remove *all* the bog water would just seep in to whatever fill they put it, or we'd get a nice underwater road if it was in a cutting...


  • #544
    Geogregor
    Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Geogregor


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    Did you say this chap did journals of other Irish road trips? Any links? :)

    http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=42852640&postcount=309

    http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=43468548&postcount=312

    Sorry for OT,
    It is the last one ;)
    Furet can move these links to relevant threads.


  • #545
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Furet wrote: »
    Why didn't they just dig out the bog instead of trying to lend it solidity with the piles? Considering the amount of bulk earthworks and rock excavation done on the scheme, seriously, why didn't they just scoop the peat out of it?

    I think that is what they have been trying to do up until now, but they are really having difficulty reaching the bottom of it . . .


  • #546
    cjpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cjpm


    Furet wrote: »
    Why didn't they just dig out the bog instead of trying to lend it solidity with the piles? Considering the amount of bulk earthworks and rock excavation done on the scheme, seriously, why didn't they just scoop the peat out of it?


    Bog is about 90% water.
    Imagine digging a trench in a lake, more than 30m deep in places and 1km long... You would need to be Moses to keep that volume of water out!

    Seriously the NRA screwed up with that part of the route selection. They might claim now that they are not going to pay for it since the contractor is doing the job for a fixed price, however, you can be sure that everyone that tendered had to bring up their prices substantially due to the route running through approx 4km of terrain that was classified as bog.


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  • #547
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    It is not a big disaster, in extremis they could open all the rest of the M7 leaving a five mile 'missing link' between Birdhill and the Limerick Ring Road while they drag each other through the courts.

    I would even pay the contractors 75% of the money due once they open the rest of it which appears to be imminent.


  • #548
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    cjpm wrote: »
    Bog is about 90% water.
    Imagine digging a trench in a lake, more than 30m deep in places and 1km long... You would need to be Moses to keep that volume of water out!

    I wasn't aware that bogs were composed of such a high percentage of water. That being the case, fair enough. But surely it was not beyond our ken to drain the bog, or to channel the water away. Either way, it does seem like a costly problem, but surely not an insurmountable one. We on this forum noticed the piles a year ago, but nothing was done with them until, it seems, a few months ago. The contractors must have thought it would be a simple matter to lay the road on top of the piles. If they had paid more attention to that section a year ago (instead of basically ignoring it for so long as appears to have been the case), then they would have found a way to fix the problem sooner, rather than leaving the problem to the last minute to solve in the winter. This scheme seems to have been cursed from the get go.


  • #549
    cjpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cjpm


    Furet wrote: »
    I wasn't aware that bogs were composed of such a high percentage of water. That being the case, fair enough. But surely it was not beyond our ken to drain the bog, or to channel the water away.

    Afraid that's a bit of a no go,
    1) Bogs help attenuate high rainfalls, if one was to drain the area of the bog, any rivers that the water is piped to would have worse flooding problems.
    2) The bog is a huge area to even be attempting to drain.
    3) Habitat distruction.

    It was a bit of a mistake run the route through the bogs, although the NRA will never admit that. If it was known that the bog was over 30m deep in places there was no way in hell that the route would have been chosen. However it was not possible to tell how deep it was at Prelim design as no machine could get in there to drill cores etc.

    I think the article in the local paper was just a dig at the original designers at it is obviously the case that they ignored the local folklore that the bog was bottomless (or at least very deep)

    In my humble opinion, any bog deeper than 5m is a no go area for a road. Piles are the biz for a building or bridge as it's a case of a few high point loads. Piles for a road foundation are crazy as the costs go through the roof. A 0m to 5m deep bog could be sheet piled, excavated and filled with suitable fill.


  • #550
    The Word Is Bor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 254 ✭✭The Word Is Bor


    Dynamic Probing was carried out in the bogs at Drominboy and Annaholty at the prelim design stage. The probe actually sank straight into the ground with it having to be driven by the hammer. Probing was carried out using the lightweight Competitor Dart.


  • #551
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    The Word Is Bor wrote: »
    Dynamic Probing was carried out in the bogs at Drominboy and Annaholty at the prelim design stage. The probe actually sank straight into the ground with it having to be driven by the hammer. Probing was carried out using the lightweight Competitor Dart.

    Ah Drominboy, that is where the problem is according to local newspapers.


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