Israeli apartheid

Sykes · 17-02-2010 11:52am

whynotwhycanti wrote: »

Oh and let me just say, thank you so much for controlling my country to benefit the britsih empire for hundreds of years. Don't worry about the famine where you exported away all the food that had been grown on Irish land by Irish people and let us starve to death. Interestingly, alot of historians think that was genocide

Wipe your tears child. You as a 'nation' have done a lot of harm to others. You were the grassroots and the finance that lead to the blowing up of a lot of people.

Empire building back in those days was standard procedure. We don't cry about the Romans anymore or hate the Italians for empire building in our country.

You and the 'palestinians' are the pioneers of modern day terrorism.

Nodin · 17-02-2010 11:57am

Sykes wrote: »

Ireland? neutral?(......) acts in humanity .

You stated

Can I remind you that we the allies (I don't mean Ireland of course, they were on the Nazi side)

That doesn't seem to relate to a few Nazis being here after the war. It states that Ireland was "on the Nazi side", opposite the allies, in WWII.

If having Nazis present after the war constitutes being "on the Nazi side", wouldn't that mean that America and Britain were actually "on the Nazi side" too, using that logic?

Sykes wrote: »

You know who else were allies to the Nazis? the 'Palestinians'. )

'The enemy of my enemy is my friend'. Thus Americans in the war of US independence sought aid from Royalist france. They are not considered supporters of the house of Bourbon, however.

More recently, and perhaps more relevant...the Lehi offered full and active support of Nazi Germany against Britain in return for German recognition of an Israeli state. They are now honoured with a decoration by the Israeli state. They are not considered Nazis.

whynotwhycanti · 17-02-2010 11:59am

Sykes wrote: »

Wipe your tears child. You as a 'nation' have done a lot of harm to others. You were the grassroots and the finance that lead to the blowing up of a lot of people.

Empire building back in those days was standard procedure. We don't cry about the Romans anymore or hate the Italians for empire building in our country.

You and the 'palestinians' are the pioneers of modern day terrorism.

As i already mentioned and you ignored, it has been stated by very well know accredited historians that the famine was a form of genocide. It happened only 70 years before WWII which you have mentioned and seems to be apart of your point. Care to address that.

How am i the pioneer of modern day terrorism? I have a job; have never committed an act of violence. Care to explain what exactly you are saying.

Also, do a bit of research, the first terrorist act occurred in Paris. It was during the 1800s, a lower class citizen set off a bomb in a upper class café in Paris to highlight the class divide

Sykes · 17-02-2010 12:06pm

Let's stop derailing this thread with your potato nonsense and the like.

Cheers.

Scofflaw · 17-02-2010 12:07pm

Right - this has gone the way of all such threads. Closed, infractions on the way.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw · 17-02-2010 1:23pm

Sykes banned, thread reopened.

moderately,
Scofflaw

whynotwhycanti · 17-02-2010 1:38pm

Sykes wrote: »

Let's stop derailing this thread with your potato nonsense and the like.

Cheers.

I think it was you who dragged it off topic. you mentioned the famine first, i prefer that term to 'potato nonsense' as alot of people died and it could have been so easily avoided as there was more than enough food being harvested by Irish poeple at the time. You also mentioned us as being the founders of modern terroism, siding with nazis along with many other racist remarks clearly showing your hate for the Irish poeple and it's history. You could refer to a disaster such as the potato famine, that reduced our population from approx 8million to 4million as 'nonsense'. You're true colours came shining through.

Apologies to other rational posters for responding to the drivel posted in his deluded, radical and racist remarks.

The Saint · 17-02-2010 1:46pm

Well, now that the thread is reopened, thanks Scofflaw, we can get back to the topic at hand.

Here's some very illuminating information on the discrimination between Isrealis in West Jerusalem and Palestinians in Israeli occupied East Jerusalem:

Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem live under different regulations than Palestinian residents of the rest of the West Bank due to GOI annexation of East Jerusalem in 1967 which exists in violation of multiple UN Security Council resolutions. Under the Oslo Accords, the status of East Jerusalem was left to final status negotiations and therefore Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem are currently considered neither citizens of Israel nor residents of WB&G. Instead, they have received Jerusalem identification cards from GOI, but are not necessarily eligible for Israeli passports nor allowed to accept Palestinian passports or travel documents. GOI can revoke Jerusalem IDs if it determines that Jerusalem ceases to be the "center of life" of the ID-holder. As part of this process, checks on official residences are conducted including entering homes to look for signs of residency. Obtaining a foreign passport, or residing in a foreign country for more than three years for purposes other than education, can also result in revocation of Jerusalem IDs. These restrictions and procedures, however, do not apply to Israeli residents of settlements in East Jerusalem. According to statistics of Israel’s Ministry of Interior, between 1967 and 2006 more than 8,200 Palestinians had their Jerusalem ID’s revoked, with the justification for revocation in the vast majority of cases being that the ID-holder had relocated abroad.60 According to statistics gathered by B’Tselem, over 1360 Palestinians from Jerusalem had their ID cards revoked in 2006 – more than in any previous year since 1967 and a 500% increase over the number of revocations in 200561. Palestinians with IDs from other parts of the West Bank need a special permit to access East Jerusalem and then can enter through only four established "crossings". Eight crossings have been provided for Israeli citizens or residents, including settlers, who need no permits.62

.....

There is evidence that the application of zoning and planning provisions and the enforcement of building regulations is discriminatory in the Palestinian areas of East Jerusalem compared with that in Israeli neighborhoods. This has a negative impact not only on housing availability and costs, but has also constrained business activity in what has been an important business center for the Palestinian economy. According to a report released by Bimkom, an Israeli organization with expertise in zoning and planning, "planning in East Jerusalem is based on considerations that do not meet accepted legal, administrative and constitutional norms, such as governmental fairness, reasonability, proportionality and protection of human rights". The result of these policies is that building and expansion in Palestinian areas of East Jerusalem has been severely constrained by the failure of the Israeli authorities to provide permission for expansion or new construction. Moreover, when construction does take place without permission, the authorities are much more likely to take action against Palestinian violators. In the period of 1996-2000, for example, the number of recorded building violations was four and a half times higher in Israeli neighborhoods of Jerusalem (17,382 violations) than in Palestinian neighborhoods of East Jerusalem (3,846 violations). Nevertheless, during this same period, the number of demolition orders issued in West Jerusalem was four time less (86 orders) than the number in East Jerusalem (348 orders). In other words, while over 80 percent of building violations were recorded in West Jerusalem, 80 percent of actual demolition orders were issued for buildings in Palestinian East Jerusalem. Between 1999 and 2003, 157 Palestinian-owned buildings were demolished, while only 30 Israeli-owned buildings met the same fate.

Source

Some more interesting information.

The uneven distribution of services between East and West Jerusalem is well known. The Jerusalem municipality collects around 30 percent of the municipal taxes in East Jerusalem from Palestinian residents. However, less than 10 percent of its budget is returned back to them in the form of municipal services. Accumulated over the years since 1967, it amounts to huge and unjust differences in public service and living standard between East and West Jerusalem.

The Municipality presented the following data on the East-West gap in 1999:

There were 743 inhabitants per kilometre sewage pipe in West compared to 2,809 in East;

There were 690 inhabitants per kilometre of sidewalk in West compared to 2,917 in East;

There were 710 inhabitants per kilometre of road in West compared to 2,448 in East;

There were 1,079 public gardens in West compared to 29 in East;

There were 36 swimming pools in West compared to 0 in East;

There were 531 sport facilities in West compared to 33 in East;

There were 26 libraries in West compared to 2 in East;

There were 1,451 playgrounds in West compared to 2 in East.

The East Jerusalem Palestinians make up 32 percent of the city's population, but received less than ten percent of the municipal budget. In the national budget their share is even smaller. In 1995, they received less than one percent (NIS 1.5 million) of the NIS 175 million allocated by the government to Jerusalem. Most of this money directed to a new highway that ran through a Palestinian neighbourhood, but which would serve large numbers of Jewish settlers.

The total amount of money spent in East Jerusalem was NIS 229,475,277 in the year 2000. This is 8.7 percent of the total municipal budget, which was NIS 2,640,320,000. This means that the Jerusalem Municipality spends about six times more on its Jewish population in comparison to its Palestinian population. Accumulated over the years since 1967, it amounts to huge and unjust differences in public services between East and West Jerusalem.

Source

wes · 17-02-2010 2:19pm

An interesting video on Al Jazeera, that back up the claims made in the OP's video regarding Israel land theft, which is even happening during there so called "freeze":

Israeli settlements still expanding

So again, I think there is a lot of evidence that can easily be found that back ups a lot of the video posted by the OP.

hinault · 17-02-2010 2:21pm

the saint 2 wrote: »

Well, now that the thread is reopened, thanks Scofflaw, we can get back to the topic at hand.

Here's some very illuminating information on the discrimination between Isrealis in West Jerusalem and Palestinians in Israeli occupied East Jerusalem:

Source

Some more interesting information.

Source

Damning stuff :

Reminds me of apartheid South Africa.

There really should be sanctions placed upon Israel by the International Community.

joesoap007 · 18-03-2010 3:13am

Sykes wrote: »

With the exception of 1929-1967, Hebron has had a Jewish presence for centuries/millennia. Long before Islam and long before 'Palestinians' were created.

Hebron was the scene of a massacre of Jews by 'palestinians' in 1929, long before the reestablishment of Israel or any 'occupation'.

Here is the most important part for you and propagandists like you - under the 1997 agreement (the Hebron protocol) with the 'palestinians', Israel would keep a Jewish presence in Hebron.

Perhaps you should devote more time to fact-finding.

138 Jews killed and 399 wounded. 110 Arabs were killed and 232 wounded plus a further six who were killed by Jews.

massacre ? or just a roit were both sides killed each other

propagandists lol

old_aussie · 18-03-2010 4:41am

The Saint wrote: »

Not even worthy of a response tbh.

Then why did you respond??:rolleyes:

old_aussie · 18-03-2010 4:47am

comeraghs wrote: »

only one side has threatened to wipe out every single man, woman & child of the other side.

only one side trains it´s children & mentally handicapped to murder innocent civilians.

for every Palestinian refugee in 1948 .. there was a Jewish refugee from the Arabs countries & Iran ... Isreal accepted & integrated these refugees ... why didn´t the Musilm world do the same to the Plaestinian refugees?

if Israel allows 1 million Arabs live inside its borders, why should 100,000 or so Jews not live in the West Bank,

And also, a prominent muslim looney that runs iran says "the WW2 holocaust against the Jews didn't even happen".

muslims write history to suit themselves, muslims cannot accept the truth

Mahatma coat · 18-03-2010 10:48am

What makes you think that he's a 'Loonie'??

where did he say it DIDNT happen, he merely organised a conference to discuss the details and see if some Truth could be established on the matter, many people Question the 6 Million figure, but apparently thats against the law in a few countries.

and anyway doesent everyone write their own history to some extent, or rewrite bits that they dont like about their past to cast themselves in a better light, I'm not a fan of the process but History is oddly enough a rather biased affair for trhe most part.

Augmerson · 18-03-2010 11:04am

The Jews are screwed once the Americans stop supporting them and giving them money. I hope those guys know how to build houses under the sea, because they are going to get some serious comeuppance.

jank · 18-03-2010 11:11am

old_aussie wrote: »

And also, a prominent muslim looney that runs iran says "the WW2 holocaust against the Jews didn't even happen".

muslims write history to suit themselves, muslims cannot accept the truth

WTF is this. One Muslims opinion does not mean that all Muslims are the same.
Oh and if you actually keep up the news the Military is really running Iran now along with a few clerics. Ahmajinedad is merely a puppet.

anymore · 18-03-2010 12:50pm

jank wrote: »

WTF is this. One Muslims opinion does not mean that all Muslims are the same.
Oh and if you actually keep up the news the Military is really running Iran now along with a few clerics. Ahmajinedad is merely a puppet.

The military may have inordinate influence but only under the religous leaders !

anymore · 18-03-2010 12:53pm

Augmerson wrote: »

The Jews are screwed once the Americans stop supporting them and giving them money. I hope those guys know how to build houses under the sea, because they are going to get some serious comeuppance.

I have news for you. Israel is the only country with which the US has a ' special relationship'. Not my words but those of former Uk Minister, Michael Heseltine, speaking on UK TV recently,

joesoap007 · 18-03-2010 2:27pm

old_aussie wrote: »

And also, a prominent muslim looney that runs iran says "the WW2 holocaust against the Jews didn't even happen".

muslims write history to suit themselves, muslims cannot accept the truth

stop watching mainstream media news dude

your from australia?.take a look at the video

not starting a fight but australia lobbyed for a fake war in iraq

can you see your been spoon fed bullsh1t just like the U.S

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykd-syzZ4ZY

have a look at this one as well ples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mScWWtRfGQ

BlaasForRafa · 18-03-2010 3:31pm

Some nice pictures of the Israeli riot police in action in East Jerusalem on UPI, I particularly liked this one http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/24/

joesoap007 · 18-03-2010 4:29pm

wonder did they wear their tshirts with Dead babies, mothers weeping on their childrens graves,guns aimed at a children and bombed mosques

nicer pictures
http://photos.upi.com/News/1393dbedf4723dda8551c4fd5be51feb/Palestinians-Protest-Reopening-of-Synagogue-in-Jerusalem_5.jpg

http://photos.upi.com/sbs/3094/51aed5116f406141cd64a6812b6c8b65/An-Israeli-undercover-police-arrests-a-Palestinian_2.jpg
undercover police or settler scum

BlaasForRafa · 18-03-2010 5:35pm

joesoap007 wrote: »

wonder did they wear their tshirts with Dead babies, mothers weeping on their childrens graves,guns aimed at a children and bombed mosques

Well what do you say about a society that forces one gender to look like mindless drones http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/28

The palestinian version of Wheres Waldo http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/11

wes · 18-03-2010 5:40pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Well what do you say about a society that forces one gender to look like mindless drones http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/28

The palestinian version of Wheres Waldo http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/11

Same would apply to Ultra Orthodox Jewish community, but is really neither here nor there. I am sure Ultra Orthodox Women would dress in a there own modest manner.

Palestinians deserve equal rights regardless of there Religous beliefs, and in the case of Israel, there Ultra Orthodox communities Religous beliefs are catered for. So I see no reason why Orthodox Palestinian Muslims or Christians should not be similary accomodated.

Also, Women will wear different colour head scarves and dress differently in plenty of other circumstance, in the pictures you present they could easily be students wearing uniforms, and I feel you mis-representing things.

The Saint · 18-03-2010 5:41pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Well what do you say about a society that forces one gender to look like mindless drones http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/28

The palestinian version of Wheres Waldo http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/11

What society would that be and who's forcing them?

anymore · 18-03-2010 5:58pm

wes wrote: »

Same would apply to Ultra Orthodox Jewish community, but is really neither here nor there. I am sure Ultra Orthodox Women would dress in a there own modest manner.

Palestinians deserve equal rights regardless of there Religous beliefs, and in the case of Israel, there Ultra Orthodox communities Religous beliefs are catered for. So I see no reason why Orthodox Palestinian Muslims or Christians should not be similary accomodated.

Also, Women will wear different colour head scarves and dress differently in plenty of other circumstance, in the pictures you present they could easily be students wearing uniforms, and I feel you mis-representing things.

And what of the rights of the Palestinian male hairdressers who have been forced to stop cutting the hair of Plaestinian women ? Any rights for them ?

wes · 18-03-2010 6:10pm

anymore wrote: »

And what of the rights of the Palestinian male hairdressers who have been forced to stop cutting the hair of Plaestinian women ? Any rights for them ?

Nice non-sequitor btw.

Of course they should have the right to cut Womens hair. Fail to see the relevance to what I was talking about, as I was talking about Israel and not Hamas.

So, how do you feel about Israel giving Palestinians lesser rights than Israeli's then? Good thing, or bad thing? Neccessary for the Zionist dream of a Greater Israel? Can Apartheid ever be justifiable any grounds? Is it ok for Israel to engage in Apartheid to further there goal of a Jewish state?!?

joesoap007 · 19-03-2010 12:31am

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Well what do you say about a society that forces one gender to look like mindless drones http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/28

The palestinian version of Wheres Waldo http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/11

are you joking.its their way of life..these women are making them selfs heard ..and you say mindless drones

tshirts
http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Mar/Week3/15245789

BlaasForRafa · 19-03-2010 2:43am

joesoap007 wrote: »

are you joking.its their way of life..these women are making them selfs heard ..and you say mindless drones

Its slightly tongue in cheek but in another sense its deadly serious. You can't seriously say that women in middle east countries have the same freedoms as those in western countries or indeed women in Israel. By "their way of life" you mean their being forced to live in certain ways, dress in certain ways?, yeah I guess it is their way of life...mores the pity for them.

JustinDee · 19-03-2010 12:42pm

This forum has gotten like Press TV.
Shame really . . .

paulaa · 19-03-2010 1:29pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its slightly tongue in cheek but in another sense its deadly serious. You can't seriously say that women in middle east countries have the same freedoms as those in western countries or indeed women in Israel. By "their way of life" you mean their being forced to live in certain ways, dress in certain ways?, yeah I guess it is their way of life...mores the pity for them.

I think you're forgetting a few things but I do agree with you about the lack of freedom for women in the ME, including Israel. What about synagogues where there is segregation of man and women. ? What about the buses used by the extremist ultra Orthodox. Yep, Israel fits right in there with the other ME countries !!!

Miriam Shear says she was traveling to pray at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City early on November 24 when a group of ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) men attacked her for refusing to move to the back of the Egged No. 2 bus.

In her first interview since the incident, Shear says that on the bus three weeks ago, she was slapped, kicked, punched and pushed by a group of men who demanded that she sit in the back of the bus with the other women

http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=801449&contrassID=19

BlaasForRafa · 19-03-2010 2:14pm

paulaa wrote: »

I think you're forgetting a few things but I do agree with you about the lack of freedom for women in the ME, including Israel. What about synagogues where there is segregation of man and women. ? What about the buses used by the extremist ultra Orthodox. Yep, Israel fits right in there with the other ME countries !!!

http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=801449&contrassID=19

The ultra-orthodox are a complete pain in the hole and so are their beliefs and practices. As I said before they also have low rates of participation in the IDF so they do little to justify the inordinate burden they put on the rest of Israeli society.

paulaa · 19-03-2010 4:44pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

The ultra-orthodox are a complete pain in the hole and so are their beliefs and practices. As I said before they also have low rates of participation in the IDF so they do little to justify the inordinate burden they put on the rest of Israeli society.

I have to agree with you again here. They are just the same as the religious extremists in any religion.

Saying that, isn't the Greater Israel enterprise based on the oft repeated phrase " God gave us this country". To me that is as crazy as anything the zealots come out with.

There should be a separation of church and state in Israel and fast.

anymore · 19-03-2010 5:34pm

paulaa wrote: »

I have to agree with you again here. They are just the same as the religious extremists in any religion.

Saying that, isn't the Greater Israel enterprise based on the oft repeated phrase " God gave us this country". To me that is as crazy as anything the zealots come out with.

There should be a separation of church and state in Israel and fast.

Lets not jsut call for an end to discrimination by Israel bur by Hanas, Iran, Afghainaisran, Pakistan etc, etc.

wes · 19-03-2010 5:44pm

anymore wrote: »

Lets not jsut call for an end to discrimination by Israel bur by Hanas, Iran, Afghainaisran, Pakistan etc, etc.

The thread is about Israel and specifically Apartheid, and not those other countries. So in the context of the thread, it would be irrelevant to bring up other countries. Now if you want to discuss those countries, you can start a thread, no need to derail things here.

anymore · 19-03-2010 5:49pm

wes wrote: »

The thread is about Israel and specifically Apartheid, and not those other countries. So in the context of the thread, it would be irrelevant to bring up other countries. Now if you want to discuss those countries, you can start a thread, no need to derail things here.

If you want to discuss Israeli apartheid. then explain that palestinian terrorism was the specific and only cause of the enermous security walls Israel has had to build - thats real apartheid.

I appreciate that a there is a continous effort on this site to demonise Israel. and protect Israels's enemies ( whio are the cause of the unrest in the middle east) from criticial comment, but this country is a democracy !

wes · 19-03-2010 6:02pm

anymore wrote: »

If you want to discuss Israeli apartheid. then explain that palestinian terrorism was the specific and only cause of the enermous security walls Israel has had to build - thats real apartheid.

I have asked the following question several times before, so heres hoping for an answer this time:

Why doesn't Israel build its so called security wall on there own land?

How exactly does a security wall that isn't complete, prevent suicide bombing? Surely, they could just go through the gaps. Perhaps there is another reason for them stopping, what with PA security forces stepping things up, and a realisation that suicide bombings don't help there cause.

So, you say Israel had to build the wall, well I would disagree, but at the very least they didn't have to build it on someone else land, which clearly shows the whole wall to be another Israeli land grab.

**EDIT**
Palestinian terrorism incidently didn't happen in a vacuum. Israel was stealing there land, and treating them like crap decades before the Palestinians resorted to suicide bombing and the like.
**END EDIT**

anymore wrote: »

I appreciate that a there is a continous effort on this site to demonise Israel. and protect Israels's enemies ( whio are the cause of the unrest in the middle east) from criticial comment, but this country is a democracy !

Being a democracy (and in Israel case its a democracy for one ethnic group) doesn't give you a get out of jail free card.

Secondly, it Israel is being made to look bad, its due to there own actions, and no one elses.

Also, accusing people of "protecting" Israel's enemies is laughable. Sure, I could accuse people of "protecting" Palestines enemies, and it would make about as much sense. Rethoric that targets other a ill defined group of other posters, isn't helpful to the discussion. We should talk about the topic, and not ill defined groups of poster we disagree with.

paulaa · 19-03-2010 6:51pm

anymore wrote: »

Lets not jsut call for an end to discrimination by Israel bur by Hanas, Iran, Afghainaisran, Pakistan etc, etc.

Ah But Israel claims to be a true western democracy, not a theocracy, the other countries don't.

BlaasForRafa · 19-03-2010 8:08pm

wes wrote: »

The thread is about Israel and specifically Apartheid, and not those other countries. So in the context of the thread, it would be irrelevant to bring up other countries. Now if you want to discuss those countries, you can start a thread, no need to derail things here.

Hang on a sec, threads are often derailed by anti-israeli posters who don't keep to the subject of the thread. I specifically remember the thread regarding an upcoming Gaza invasion by Israel which was disproved as an Iranian propoganda piece to detract from the internal Iranian problems yet the thread was continued and used for any old slur to be thrown at Israel.

joesoap007 · 19-03-2010 8:49pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its slightly tongue in cheek but in another sense its deadly serious. You can't seriously say that women in middle east countries have the same freedoms as those in western countries or indeed women in Israel. By "their way of life" you mean their being forced to live in certain ways, dress in certain ways?, yeah I guess it is their way of life...mores the pity for them.

i understand that 100%, god love them to.but its like that from day 1.maybe some day it will be better life for women living there.
pitty they all have deal with apartheid nazi 4th reich israel aswell:rolleyes:

BlaasForRafa · 19-03-2010 8:51pm

wes wrote: »

I have asked the following question several times before, so heres hoping for an answer this time:

Why doesn't Israel build its so called security wall on there own land?

How exactly does a security wall that isn't complete, prevent suicide bombing? Surely, they could just go through the gaps. Perhaps there is another reason for them stopping, what with PA security forces stepping things up, and a realisation that suicide bombings don't help there cause.

So, you say Israel had to build the wall, well I would disagree, but at the very least they didn't have to build it on someone else land, which clearly shows the whole wall to be another Israeli land grab.

**EDIT**
Palestinian terrorism incidently didn't happen in a vacuum. Israel was stealing there land, and treating them like crap decades before the Palestinians resorted to suicide bombing and the like.
**END EDIT**

Being a democracy (and in Israel case its a democracy for one ethnic group) doesn't give you a get out of jail free card.

Israel is a democracy, non-jews have the vote just the same as jews.

Regarding the wall, it should keep to the border except where geographical features make this impractical. As always the settlements complicate the issue, in my opinion they should have been left fend for themselves but in some cases the wall has included them.

I don't think theres any doubt that the wall has made it less easy for terrorists to get into Israel. Even though its not yet complete, it is complete enough in urban areas to be a deterrent to suicide bombers. If a bomber has to go off into the desert to cross the border and then journey for miles inside israel then its much more likely they will be stopped.

Pete M. · 19-03-2010 9:06pm

If only the Wall kept the Israeli Terrorists aka IDF out of Palentinan areas, then it may be a good idea. But the tanks and bulldozers just keep coming.

What's the body count ratio over the last couple of years? Easily 10:1.

And a immigrant worker gets killed by a rocket fired by Palestinan militants, front page news, while Palestinian kids get killed every week, don't hear nought about it unless you go look for the info.

I bet the Palestinians would love to keep the Israelis away from their houses too, but they can't even bring in cement to build a home for themselves.

Apartheid for sure. And those who apologise for it aren't even worth entering into a debate with.

FlutterinBantam · 19-03-2010 9:09pm

Where is your info about 'Palestinian kids getting killed every week'?

Can you back up that observation sir?

BlaasForRafa · 19-03-2010 9:25pm

Pete M. wrote: »

If only the Wall kept the Israeli Terrorists aka IDF out of Palentinan areas, then it may be a good idea. But the tanks and bulldozers just keep coming.

What's the body count ratio over the last couple of years? Easily 10:1.

And a immigrant worker gets killed by a rocket fired by Palestinan militants, front page news, while Palestinian kids get killed every week, don't hear nought about it unless you go look for the info.

I bet the Palestinians would love to keep the Israelis away from their houses too, but they can't even bring in cement to build a home for themselves.

Apartheid for sure. And those who apologise for it aren't even worth entering into a debate with.

Stupid comments like calling the Idf terrorists or references to apartheid do nothing to forward this debate. If you want to debate then do so sensibly, if you don't then get lost.

and like Flutterinbantam said, have you actual evidence for kids being killed "every week" or is that just hyperbole?

joesoap007 · 19-03-2010 9:25pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Israel is a democracy, non-jews have the vote just the same as jews.

Regarding the wall, it should keep to the border except where geographical features make this impractical. As always the settlements complicate the issue, in my opinion they should have been left fend for themselves but in some cases the wall has included them.

I don't think theres any doubt that the wall has made it less easy for terrorists to get into Israel. Even though its not yet complete, it is complete enough in urban areas to be a deterrent to suicide bombers. If a bomber has to go off into the desert to cross the border and then journey for miles inside israel then its much more likely they will be stopped.

what about all the roads it blocks what about all the people who cant go to work bank hospital what about scum bag idf not turning up to open gates checkpionts.what about pregnant women been turned away and them in labour,,

this wall should be knocked down.

BlaasForRafa · 19-03-2010 9:31pm

joesoap007 wrote: »

what about all the roads it blocks what about all the people who cant go to work bank hospital what about scum bag idf not turning up to open gates checkpionts.what about pregnant women been turned away and them in labour,,

this wall should be knocked down.

make sure you remember to breathe there lad.

joesoap007 · 19-03-2010 9:32pm

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Where is your info about 'Palestinian kids getting killed every week'?

Can you back up that observation sir?

http://cheztwosret.blogspot.com/2007/01/819-palestinian-children-shot-in-their.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/4279102/Bullets-in-the-brain-shrapnel-in-the-spine-the-terrible-injuries-suffered-by-children-of-Gaza.html

http://www.pcrf.net/

were have you been living? the moon

Nodin · 19-03-2010 9:39pm

anymore wrote: »

I appreciate that a there is a continous effort on this site to demonise Israel. and protect Israels's enemies ( whio are the cause of the unrest in the middle east) from criticial comment, but this country is a democracy !

....but what has that to do with anything? They're still outside their own borders building colonies. It doesn't really matter who leads them or how, or who and what leads the rest of the countries in the region. It's wrong. The fact that the others aren't without sin doesn't let Israel off the hook.

joesoap007 · 19-03-2010 9:50pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

make sure you remember to breathe there lad.

cheers

FlutterinBantam · 19-03-2010 9:55pm

joesoap007 wrote: »

http://cheztwosret.blogspot.com/2007/01/819-palestinian-children-shot-in-their.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/4279102/Bullets-in-the-brain-shrapnel-in-the-spine-the-terrible-injuries-suffered-by-children-of-Gaza.html

http://www.pcrf.net/

were have you been living? the moon

While those accounts are harrowing, they in no way back up your assertion of 'palestinian kids getting killed every week'

If unfortunately palestinian children get killed it's usually because the terrorists use hospitals and schools as bases to launch rockets.

http://cgi.stanford.edu/group/wais/cgi-bin/?p=26083

Gardalover · 19-03-2010 10:33pm

Sykes wrote: »

Ireland? neutral? I don't think it's particularly neutral to welcome in Nazis after the war with open arms, giving them homes and finding them new jobs to make the rest of their lives all nice and rosy after having just committed one of the most heinous acts in humanity

You know who else were allies to the Nazis? the 'Palestinians'. Although that's not mentioned in the media, conveniently forgotten about. There was a time during the 90's that it was fashionable amongst 'Palestinians' to change their names to 'Hitler'. A 'palestinian' government minister changed his name to Hitler.

No wonder you lot are so up their arse. You share a lot in common. Terrorism, Nazism and anti-semitism. It wasn't surprising therefore to find warm relations between the IRA and Hezbollah as well as Libya.

I've tried to tell Israelis that their biggest enemy in Europe is Ireland and the Irish people. They don't 'get it' yet because they're still caught up in the global P.R. campaign the Americans ran for you which turned you from a violent, sectarian society that welcomed the Nazis, to 'loveable, drunken rogues always up for a laugh and a party'.

Maby Sykes is right ....

Israeli apartheid

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