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Eircom eFibre VDSL/FTTC rollout – plans to reach 1.6m premises by mid 2016

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    The problem, as I see it anyway, is that eircom might struggle to get any kind of investors at all.

    #1 : The debt will absolutely have to be written down before anyone would touch it with a barge pole.

    #2 : Their landline, consumer-oriented infrastructure has been allowed to become obsolete and is in need of major redevelopment. They have spent a lot of time talking about fibre-to-the-cabinet or fibre-to-the-home rollouts and achieved very little.

    Even forgetting fibre, their NGN rollout isn't complete nationwide and there are still a significant number of exchanges (particularly outside urban areas) that don't even support ADSL2+ (up to 24 mbit/s) which is amazing in 2012!

    Even on their most bog-standard services i.e. voice, they are probably in need of replacing equipment at this stage. Much like a lot of other telcos, their digital exchanges largely date from the 1980s. To make maters more urgent, Telecom Eireann was one of the first in the world to do a major roll-out of digital exchanges, so eircom's equipment is probably older than most other equivalent operators who largely went digital in the 90s.
    So, I would suspect that even without moving to fibre to home, some of that aging gear is probably going to need to be replaced anyway.

    #3 They are way behind their main compeditor in urban Ireland i.e. UPC which seems to be taking vast numbers of broadband & voice customers in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, etc.

    Also, based on disposable income, Dublin and Cork in particular are the most attractive areas to invest in because of their household spending power.

    Basically, eircom's being left with a monopoly in areas that other companies wouldn't really be bothered with anyway as the costs are high, the lines are long, the population density is low and the spending power is also lower and even in rural areas, they're increasingly being out run by wireless service providers using fixed point microwave networks to an antenna on the roof.

    #4 Ireland's economic situation's going to really play a huge role in getting an investor for eircom. The economy is still a mess and there is no clear path out of our mess at the moment.
    So, if you are going to invest in an infrastructure company, I don't think
    Ireland would be high on many agendas.
    The GNP is contracting, spending is contracting, the Government's perusing slash-and-burn austerity tactics which are resulting in ever-decreasing spending from consumers and also from the public and private sectors.

    The local banks are also basically bust and nationalised and that will hamper any ability to get capital from local investors and may mess up cash-flow due to inability to get flexible financing.

    Also, given the state of eircom's finances and the national finances, you would wonder if they would be in a very strong position to get good deals on financing for new equipment. I would seriously doubt that they are.

    #5 Competition :
    UPC is a powerful player in this market and it is extremely well resourced (technically and financially) and part of a very large multinational. In the mobile sector, eircom's up against Vodafone, Telefonica (O2) and Hutchison (3) all of which are some of the worlds largest telecoms companies.
    In fixed line infrastructure it is up against BT Ireland, again a huge telco.

    I'm not trying to paint an entirely gloomy picture, but I am not seeing very many rainbows shining over eircom right now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭positron


    Quick question to the people in the know.

    Here in Drogheda (Wheaton Hall, in Dublin road), and we have been getting extremely poor speeds (~2 mpbs) with Eircom & Vodafone despite paying for 8 mbps or more. The reasons quoted are that the houses are wired to an exchange 5 kms away etc.

    Recently a UTV internet sales team is going around offering 24 mbps, and according to the sales guy the fibre was laid here some 10 years back when the estate was being built, and it's only going active now. And the fibre runs up to local exchange box in the estate, which according to him is just outside the cul-de-sac (however that looks like a ESB sub/power-station to me based on photos and comments above). From what he said it sounds like he's referring to FTTC, and because the house is so close to the box I should get much faster speed once I switch to UTV Internet.

    Now he also claims UTV Internet has exclusive access to this FTTC/Fiber setup for next 5 years? Is this correct? If that's not the case, I would much rather stay with Vodafone and get better speeds with them, as I've read horror stories about UTV throttling etc.

    Could someone throw some light on this please? There's a good few of us considering switching over at NE/Louth forum, would be great to know if we are being taken for a ride.

    Thanks a million!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Solair wrote: »
    The problem, as I see it anyway, is that eircom might struggle to get any kind of investors at all.

    #1 : The debt will absolutely have to be written down before anyone would touch it with a barge pole.

    #2 : Their landline, consumer-oriented infrastructure has been allowed to become obsolete and is in need of major redevelopment. They have spent a lot of time talking about fibre-to-the-cabinet or fibre-to-the-home rollouts and achieved very little.

    Interestingly they were offered somewhere around €1.7bn cash for it ( with all the long term debt written off) but they chose to keep €2.4bn debt written on and rejected that bid. I would have thought they had a future at around €1.5bn of debt myself so €1.7bn was generous in that context.

    They have been starved of investment, Fixed and Mobile and Next Generation for around 12 years now although the Australian bankers/ Pierre Danon spent a bit during a catchup exercise in 2007. That didn't last long and some of that 2007 programme is incomplete 5 years later.
    Even forgetting fibre, their NGN rollout isn't complete nationwide and there are still a significant number of exchanges (particularly outside urban areas) that don't even support ADSL2+ (up to 24 mbit/s) which is amazing in 2012!

    They have 1200 exchanges ( pre cabinetisation an exchange generally covers a much larger geographic area). Of they 1200 they have only NGN enabled 300 and of the 1200 they have only DSL enabled 950 or so.

    250 odd exchanges have nothing faster than dialup.
    650 further exchanges have nothing faster than 7.6mbit c. Year 2001 standard ADSL. 11 Year old technology. Very few of the 650 will be upgraded to ADSL2+ and even fewer to VDSL.

    All the exchanges selected for phase 2 ( and for phases 3 4 5 and 6 over the next few years) will have ADSL2+ already.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    positron wrote: »
    sales team is going around offering 24 mbps
    The salesman LIED, in a nutshell. These people are on commisssion and will say ANYTHING to get a sale. :(

    Stay away from UTV and wait for VDSL to appear either side of the New Year before you lock yourself into any contracts. You may notice a speed bump on basic ADSL for free ( ie to nearer 8mbits) before they offer VDSL>


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The salesman LIED, in a nutshell. These people are on commisssion and will say ANYTHING to get a sale. :(

    Yeah it sounds like complete BS...

    "Now he also claims UTV Internet has exclusive access to this FTTC/Fiber setup for next 5 years? Is this correct?"

    That's just more bs...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    bealtine wrote: »
    Yeah it sounds like complete BS...

    "Now he also claims UTV Internet has exclusive access to this FTTC/Fiber setup for next 5 years? Is this correct?"

    That's just more bs...

    That's absolutely total nonsense. The FTTC products from eircom wholesale will / are (in a very limited way) available to anyone who wants to use them, much like wholesale DSL products are.

    So far, as far as I am aware, only eircom retail & magnet are offering this kind of fibre service.

    UTV offer some kind of wholesale version of BT Infinity in Northern Ireland alright, but again, it's just wholesale stuff on BT's infrastructure. I'd assume whatever they launch in the Republic will be similar.

    UTV do good deals on price for DSL and voice, but that sales pitch is utter nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭mobil 222


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    They are not doing the rural areas at all.

    Mervue in phase 1 and Shantalla in phase 2 have sizeable rural hinterlands that are not being upgraded at all. EG Menlo, Carnmore and Bushypark.

    This is some cod :(

    Dont worry they will be done as well especially carnmore with a sizeable industrial input... Probally what has happened is that there is no duct and service is already provided on poles.

    Back a few years ago when Eircom found it to expensive to install duct they linked exchanges with Fibre hung on poles ...most of these poles were upgraded to take other cables as well so providing a new fibre would be no problem.

    Some cabinets fed out of Mervue are very remote as would be the case with a lot of Western Towns such as Sligo, Donegal and Castlebar.

    Looking at Phase 2 you will see Rathedmond in Sligo is included but the other exchange is not because of a fair precentage of its customers are rural and fed directly by cable


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    mobil 222 wrote: »
    Dont worry they will be done as well especially carnmore with a sizeable industrial input... Probally what has happened is that there is no duct and service is already provided on poles.

    Nope it is ducted from the existing exchange to Carnmore Cross.
    Back a few years ago when Eircom found it to expensive to install duct they linked exchanges with Fibre hung on poles ...most of these poles were upgraded to take other cables as well so providing a new fibre would be no problem Some cabinets fed out of Mervue are very remote as would be the case with a lot of Western Towns such as Sligo, Donegal and Castlebar.

    My understanding is that no new cabs will be provided out there and they will serve the lot from inside the City.....which is impossible to do properly..... eg the Curragh Line and Menlo could be launched from cabs in Ballindooley but only at ADSL2 speeds...not Next Generation. eircom already has ducting all the way out the Curragh Line.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Didn't want to start a new thread but speaking of fibre,it looks like the folks up North are going to be spoiled.
    Belfast Gets Ready For Ultrafast 1Gbps Broadband Network

    Belfast is reportedly using its broadband cash from George Osborne to build a broadband network apparently capable of speeds of 1Gbps
    http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/belfast-gets-ready-for-superfast-broadband-71644


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  • Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭skyflyer


    zerks wrote: »
    Didn't want to start a new thread but speaking of fibre,it looks like the folks up North are going to be spoiled.


    http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/belfast-gets-ready-for-superfast-broadband-71644
    Stuff like this makes living here incredibly irritating...:mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭KIERAN1


    zerks wrote: »
    Didn't want to start a new thread but speaking of fibre,it looks like the folks up North are going to be spoiled.


    http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/belfast-gets-ready-for-superfast-broadband-71644

    95% of the North can now receive 5 Meg its a disgrace are broadband is so behind Europe and our Government is doing little or nothing about it. Eircom have been overcharging on their broadband for years.

    I pay 32 euro a month plus tax probably another 12 added on for a five year installed DSL service that only provides speeds of 6meg and 312up in this day and age come on. Sick of hearing is commercially not viable to bring fibre to rural areas, but still doesn't stop Eircom charging for its overpriced products does it. Eastern Europe has better internet than us really i am just sick of the politicians and the people who run things in this country.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭Kaner2004


    KIERAN1 wrote: »
    95% of the North can now receive 5 Meg its a disgrace are broadband is so behind Europe and our Government is doing little or nothing about it. Eircom have been overcharging on their broadband for years.

    I pay 32 euro a month plus tax probably another 12 added on for a five year installed DSL service that only provides speeds of 6meg and 312up in this day and age come on. Sick of hearing is commercially not viable to bring fibre to rural areas, but still doesn't stop Eircom charging for its overpriced products does it. Eastern Europe has better internet than us really i am just sick of the politicians and the people who run things in this country.


    I pay about the same for 1Mb in Dublin. 6Km from the nearest exchange. cant even stream youtube. Thats as fast as it will go over the phone line.
    Im going to change to mobile to get higher speed. How pathetic is that.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Eircom need to get this technology into all dsl exchanges but unfortunately are mainly focusing on areas where there is already very fast broadband available from upc etc, seems bit of a waste. This technology sounds like it would benefit many countryside dsl exchanges where most properties are over 1km from exchange with line speeds of between 512k and 7meg.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭PseudoFamous


    Cut dole, improve infrastructure. Companies would set up shop here, unemployment would drop. No brainer, really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭kaahooters


    Cut dole, improve infrastructure. Companies would set up shop here, unemployment would drop. No brainer, really.

    how would cutting the dole improve a private companies infrastructure?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭PseudoFamous


    kaahooters wrote: »
    how would cutting the dole improve a private companies infrastructure?

    I meant it as a plan for the Irish (Republic) government, in relation to government investment in Belfast in infrastructure.

    That said, cutting the dole gives more incentive to innovate and encourages entrepreneurship and competition (as people would have a greater urgency to get a job, set up a company), potentially forcing private companies to up their service to keep customers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    cut dole
    set up a company

    And with what money will these people set their shiny new company up with?

    You claim cutting dole will create more urgency in jobseeking. The unemployment figures speak for themselves. There aren't enough jobs. Cutting the dole won't stop career spungers. It only hurts genuine people who have only been jobless for the last year or two.

    Social Welfare and Eircom pissing away money are two seperate issues. Don't connect them. We have a shambolic Internet infrastrucure because of poor planning. We had the money in the 90's and 00's and did sod all with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭PseudoFamous


    I'm going to try this one last time, as its 1:35am, and the nearest thing I have to a keyboard is my phone.

    What I originally meant was for the government to decrease expenditure on unemployment benefit, and redirect money saved into infrastructure. Infrastructure being ports, motorways, a cheap, stable power supply, and nets and comms.
    This would firstly create employment in construction and provision, and provide framework for foreign footloose industries, such as pharma, tech and internet technologies to set up, and begin employing people. If anything I said isn't clear, I'll try to clarify in the morning


  • Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭lockup35


    The government have met with the EC about receiving funds in a €9bn broadband rollout scheme for Europe so its about time they pulled the finger out and get a proper rollout plan in place. Eircom have been a cancer on Irish telecoms for years with their lack of vision and slow adoption of new technologies compared to other countries.
    The UK have already laid out plans to provide 90% of rural locations with fast broadband so there's no reason Ireland can't do it if we get access to EU funds...


    [HTML]http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/24190-ireland-to-tap-eu-9bn-tele[/HTML]

    [HTML]http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/aug/16/rural-broadband-boost[/HTML]


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    lockup35 wrote: »
    The UK have already laid out plans to provide 90% of rural locations with fast broadband so there's no reason Ireland can't do it if we get access to EU funds...
    That requires that we have a compentent government and minister for communication who has at least read the Dummys guide to internet, too much of a longshot.

    Ignoring idiots who comment "far right" because they don't even know what it means



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  • Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭lockup35




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    There's absolutely no way that state money should be directly invested into eircom. It wouldn't make any sense as it would probably end up being wasted on some drawn-out project or sucked up into debt pay downs.

    The faster eircom emerges from examinership, or goes bankrupt the better! We need a properly financed, stable major telco, not some financial disaster zone sitting on the network and sweating assets!

    I dread the idea that yet another "investment bank" or bunch of speculators will get their hands on the telecoms infrastructure yet again. It's been a disaster everytime this has happened.

    We really need to get a large multinational telco to buy eircom and run it as a telco not a speculative plaything.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    lockup35 wrote: »

    Seems unlikely to me as Rabbitte just comes out with the same crap as Ryan came out with, in other words he's gone native and been "captured" by officials in the DECNR.

    So (no) business as usual, making excuses and talking about satellite and mobile as the answer to questions nobody asked.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,712 ✭✭✭Praetorian


    Would someone be willing to post speed tests and ping tests on their newly installed FTTC & FTTH products?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭iMuse


    Praetorian wrote: »
    Would someone be willing to post speed tests and ping tests on their newly installed FTTC & FTTH products?

    From the Speedtest thread, theres a few more if you look through it. I know its magnet FTTH but im sure you can expect the same on eircom.

    200712.jpg

    Does anyone know how much lower pings with FTTC should be in comparison to traditional DSL at 3+ KM from the exchange.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,712 ✭✭✭Praetorian


    iMuse wrote: »
    From the Speedtest thread, theres a few more if you look through it. I know its magnet FTTH but im sure you can expect the same on eircom.

    200712.jpg

    Does anyone know how much lower pings with FTTC should be in comparison to traditional DSL at 3+ KM from the exchange.

    Thanks iMuse for that. So that is a FTTH product. Could someone post FTTC figures as well?


  • Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭mickyoc85


    I wonder what areas will be inclusive in Phase 3????????


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭Kaner2004


    Is there anywhere that you can get a map of where Eircoms cabinets are located?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    Kaner2004 wrote: »
    Is there anywhere that you can get a map of where Eircoms cabinets are located?

    haha that's a state secret, technically we don't even know where the exchanges are


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,712 ✭✭✭Praetorian


    http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/Reference-Offers/

    click on coverage maps, then click the broadband tick box, and you can then zoom in and see where most of the exchanges are. Map seems to be accurate.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭Hogzy


    Praetorian wrote: »
    http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/Reference-Offers/

    click on coverage maps, then click the broadband tick box, and you can then zoom in and see where most of the exchanges are. Map seems to be accurate.

    That just shows the exchanges though. The poster above you is looking for the location of cabinets


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,712 ✭✭✭Praetorian


    Hogzy wrote: »
    That just shows the exchanges though. The poster above you is looking for the location of cabinets

    I was just replying to "technically we don't even know where the exchanges are "

    Regarding the cabinets, sure they are everywhere :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    They are painted dark green, the fibred cabs are going beside them....and elsewhere too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭jimmad


    KN networks been doing the ground work for the cabinets in Letterkenny all week.

    heres the magherenan one.


    IMAG0179.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭jimmad


    Boxes have sprung up all over letterkenny last few days, smaller than I was expecting, so end of may mightnt of been too far off for it going live?

    box1.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,487 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Does anybody have any reliable info on what equipment (make, model) is provided in both cases, i.e. FTTH and FTTC, and how is the phone connection realized i.e. for FTTC is it a normal connection like with ADSL, or is it via some kind of VOIP setup?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,720 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    On their map it says Fibre powered is available 'to the box' at the dundrum exchange, yet when I ring them its not? :S


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭iMuse


    AdamD wrote: »
    On their map it says Fibre powered is available 'to the box' at the dundrum exchange, yet when I ring them its not? :S

    How far are you from your nearest cabinet (green box in the pic above)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,720 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    iMuse wrote: »
    How far are you from your nearest cabinet (green box in the pic above)

    No idea, how would I find this out?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭iMuse


    AdamD wrote: »
    No idea, how would I find this out?

    Google street view? There is no map of cabinets


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭Kaner2004


    A friend told me he got a call from Eircom asking him if he wanted to sign up to Fibre. He is in Swords - Could they be finished upgrading Swords exchange already?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    AdamD wrote: »
    On their map it says Fibre powered is available 'to the box' at the dundrum exchange, yet when I ring them its not? :S

    The two nearby exchanges ( Priory and Dundrum) were largely but not completely cabinetised.....which is what will happen the two new tranches announced in the last year.

    So that seems perfectly plausible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,945 ✭✭✭long_b


    Praetorian wrote: »
    http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/Reference-Offers/

    click on coverage maps, then click the broadband tick box, and you can then zoom in and see where most of the exchanges are. Map seems to be accurate.

    That's a class link - finally got to measure the distance to my exchanged. 4.5KM as Google flies.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Go for a walk, you'll usually find them on corners of streets or, at green spaces.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,720 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The two nearby exchanges ( Priory and Dundrum) were largely but not completely cabinetised.....which is what will happen the two new tranches announced in the last year.

    So that seems perfectly plausible.

    Ah ok, has a date been set on this yet?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 271 ✭✭stevenf17


    Can't wait until the day FTTC/FTTH is available in my area... only about 100 metres from my cabinet :D
    Hopefully I'll be included in phase 3 but still prob be waiting a year+ :rolleyes:
    (greystones btw)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭SickBoy


    stevenf17 wrote: »
    Can't wait until the day FTTC/FTTH is available in my area... only about 100 metres from my cabinet :D
    Hopefully I'll be included in phase 3 but still prob be waiting a year+ :rolleyes:
    (greystones btw)

    So phase 1 and 2 are completed now is that right?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 271 ✭✭stevenf17


    SickBoy wrote: »
    So phase 1 and 2 are completed now is that right?

    No not nearly!
    Phase 1 is getting there... phase 2 was only announced few weeks ago, but there expecting to finish that by the end of the year!
    And Phase 3, that's anyone's guess. That's why I said I hope to be included!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    I'm impressed at the speed at which the installation of fibre in Douglas in Cork is going.

    Eircom have absolutely blitzed the area in the last few days and they have made huge progress. The street cabinets, mostly at housing estate entrances, have all had fibre pulled to them and new cabinets were being delivered and installed this morning.

    Based on what I am seeing, it looks to me like this kind of rollout could be done very quickly in most Irish urban / suburban areas. Douglas would compare to any suburb of Dublin or elsewhere really.

    They already have the duct infrastructure in place and it seems just a matter of pulling / pushing the fibres through.

    Hopefully, this rollout continues!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭SickBoy


    Where do you go then to find out if this product is or will be available? I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere in this thread but there's 250+ posts to trawl through :(


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