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The end of Bok rugby as we know it is nigh

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  • 18-10-2007 8:38pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭


    Bhutana Khompela, an ANC politician in South Africa's ruling party, wants Jake White fired and wants the team to be 80% black, with the team being selected according to colour and not merit.

    Here is an article from [url]www.rugby365.co.za:[/url]
    Khompela: 'Why White must go'
    Thursday 18th October 2007

    Bhutana Khompela, the Chairperson of the Parliamentary Committee on Sport, believes that despite all Springbok coach Jake White's achievements in this year's World Cup, the sooner he relinquishes his job the better for South African rugby.

    In an interview with Cape Talk DJ Aden Thomas on Thursday Khompela said that White had "invited trouble" by meddling in politics with his statements about the merits of the current team.

    White, who in recent weeks has used sections of the South African media to gain publicity ahead of the release of his biography, made it clear that he is unlikely to continue as national coach after the World Cup - even if the Boks beat England in the World Cup Final in Paris on Saturday.

    However, he has suggested that it is the underhand tactics of back-stabbing South African Rugby Union (SARU) officials that will force him out.

    Some reports in the White media camp even suggested that Bulls coach Heyneke Meyer was promised the Springbok coaching job before the Boks left for the World Cup - claims denied by Jonathan Stones, managing director of SA Rugby (Pty) Ltd (the commercial arm of SARU).

    Furthermore, Stones said SA Rugby was interested in retaining White within its structures.

    However, the campaigning and publicity for White in the media - not to mention White's own public controversial statements on the coaching saga - have not gone unnoticed.

    Khompela revealed that the ruling party, the African National Congress (ANC), would never support any bid White made for a second term as the coach of the national side.

    "If he goes today, South African rugby will be better off," Khompela told Cape Talk's Aden Thomas.

    Despite earlier this year threatening to withhold the passports of the players if the team's composition did not reflect the demographics of the country - in which 80 per cent of the population is black - Khompela said it is the administration and selectors (including White) that are to blame and not the players.

    "You can't punish the players, you must punish those that are responsible for the composition of the team," he said.

    He warned that if the leadership of rugby - including White - was full of racism and hated black people, they should be punished.

    "I've been saying for a long time that because of the passionate hate that Jake White has; I think [his being removed as coach] is long overdue - and I don't mince my words," he said, without clarifying who and what it is that White actually hates.

    "The ANC will never support Jake White if he bids for the second term - even if they propose that his contract be renewed on the basis of his being liked by the rugby fraternity and the argument that we can't micro manage rugby," he added.

    "We might accept their decision but deep down we will definitely not support Jake White."

    Khompela went on to say that he did not view White as the coach who had put the Springboks in the World Cup Final, but that he saw him as a divisive force in the national side, someone who pushed people "poles apart from each other".

    He went on to accuse White of inviting trouble by making political statements.

    "Look at the statement that he is making around the issue of the merit and all that, statements that a coach should not be making.

    "He rise at the political level and therefore I must engage him at the political level," Khompela said about White political statements.

    "I think if I was him I would have been a humble coach and leave the issues of the race to those that are dealing with it in politics, because it is a political matter.

    "Now if Jake puts it there, he is saying to me as the ANC, 'Here I am challenging you on the question of the mandate of the code and the race'."

    The outburst followed comments from White that he did not racially discriminate in his selections, but found it difficult as a coach to be forced to fill quota requirements.

    "South Africa is the only country where if a winger is injured, you are obliged to change the prop [should the injured player be black or coloured]," White told journalists in France.

    "They [the players] know me and know that I never want to be strong-armed into playing a guy because of the colour of his skin. That is a dreadful thing to do to a player. With me it's a case of if you deserve to be in the starting XV or not and the coloured players are aware of that."

    Khompela said that such comments from the Springbok coach were unwarranted.

    Khompela added that transformation in rugby was a non negotiable and that the administrators and those elected to represent rugby in the country had not tapped into the talent pool, and did not select sides that reflect the potential of South Africa's 80 per cent black population.

    Enjoy seeing a powerful Bok rugby team for the last time. Politicians in SA want change to win political points even though the average black rugby fan wants the SA team to win irrespective of race. As a South African I hope that the boys bring this cup home as they won't be a force for very much longer.

    Jake White has been a great coach, having to deal with this on a daily basis. It breaks my heart to see politicians who know nothing about rugby ripping the team apart.

    A sad Bok fan.


«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,240 ✭✭✭Endurance Man


    :( This is not going to do the nation of SA one bit of good.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    Reverse apartheid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,579 ✭✭✭uberwolf


    smashey wrote: »
    Reverse apartheid.

    it's simply apartheid.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 231 ✭✭ThomasH


    "If he goes today, South African rugby will be better off," Khompela told Cape Talk's Aden Thomas.
    Be better off or just that you idiots in the government get your way. Just like the soccer and look how great they are doing...could not even make the previous WC and only making the next one because SA is hosting it.
    He warned that if the leadership of rugby - including White - was full of racism and hated black people, they should be punished.
    So are you and all of your idiotic administration in the government.
    Khompela went on to say that he did not view White as the coach who had put the Springboks in the World Cup Final, but that he saw him as a divisive force in the national side, someone who pushed people "poles apart from each other".
    LOL, oh my goodness what a muppet statement. :rolleyes:
    "I think if I was him I would have been a humble coach and leave the issues of the race to those that are dealing with it in politics, because it is a political matter.
    You and your monkey administration pushed the political issues not Jake, all he wanted to do was to coach the national rugby team and select the best players.
    "They [the players] know me and know that I never want to be strong-armed into playing a guy because of the colour of his skin. That is a dreadful thing to do to a player. With me it's a case of if you deserve to be in the starting XV or not and the coloured players are aware of that."
    Very true and it is usually the coloured guys that suffer which is not fair.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22 HaroldGodwinson


    It's ridiculous, South Africa is run by idiots. Can anyone tell me any other country in the world which would go for such bull**** as this?
    I'm English, our football team on wednesday had 50% of the outfield players who were black. Nobody over here of sane mind would dream of saying we've got to have a team which is 90% white to reflect the demographic. From what I can see South Africa is in **** state, it's not surprising when you've got Mbeki who is best mates with Mugabe.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    uberwolf wrote: »
    it's simply apartheid.
    Agreed. I was just pointing out it was like the opposite way of working from what they had for years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Marshy


    Inevitable but tragic nonetheless.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22 HaroldGodwinson


    If some black people in South Africa want to be so blatantly racist, why don't the whites tell them to **** off and play a black mans sport. The only reason rugby is played in South Africa is because it was taken over their by whites.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭cavedave


    OK devils advocate

    Are picks for the irish teams based on province and not soley merit? Particularly at under adult age levels?

    Are picks for Irish teams based on where you play and not merit?

    Do we accept that a coach has the right to drop a player who has merit but is divisive? Say one who played in France for years but was not liked by the Irish setup.

    How much right does a coach have to pick a team that will eventually result in a better team rather then the best players currently playing? As in can a coach pick a worse 20 year old then a 34 year old for future reasons ok? If so is picking a team now because it will help south africa in 15 years that odd?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭cavedave


    if some black people in South Africa want to be so blatantly racist, why don't the whites tell them to **** off and play a black
    *Comment deleted as a personal insult is inappropriate


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    cavedave wrote: »
    personal insults on this forum result in a ban. You barely qualify for personhood so...

    Personal?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,772 ✭✭✭toomevara


    More light, less heat might be in order here fellas...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭cavedave


    Personal?
    From the rules
    Personal abuse, racism etc. will lead to bannings, there is no need for it, so don’t do it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,987 ✭✭✭✭zAbbo


    Getting a bit excited aren't you cavedave ?

    Are you hankering for the SARU to be banned from boards ? ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,728 ✭✭✭Naos


    cavedave wrote: »
    personal insults on this forum result in a ban. You barely qualify for personhood so i feel this rule should be revoked for responses for this comment.

    Cavedave, what you said about Harold not qualifying for personhood, whatever that is, is personal.
    If some black people in South Africa want to be so blatantly racist, why don't the whites tell them to **** off and play a black mans sport. The only reason rugby is played in South Africa is because it was taken over their by whites.

    This is not personal.

    OT: This is going to be awful for SA and is blatent racisim. Defeats the point of equality, that all men should be viewed as equal thus removing any the "colour factor".


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭cavedave


    Getting a bit excited aren't you cavedave ?

    Are you hankering for the SARU to be banned from boards ?
    Yes I am getting excited about the phrase "**** off and play a black mans sport."

    I am not attempting to get anyone banned.
    This is not personal.
    Is "**** off and play a black mans sport." racist?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,987 ✭✭✭✭zAbbo


    Yes, if you take it out of context but thats being pedantic...

    The report post is there for a reason, use it.

    There was an element of truth in what yer man said, ultimately it's a sorry state for the saffies, shame really, I love watching their Currie Cup & S14 teams.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    If some black people in South Africa want to be so blatantly racist, why don't the whites tell them to **** off and play a black mans sport. The only reason rugby is played in South Africa is because it was taken over their by whites.

    What a pathetic thing to say. :rolleyes:

    The black man has been crapped on for years by white supremacists in SA. Now they're getting their revenge. It's a pity rugby may suffer, but what goes around comes around!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,987 ✭✭✭✭zAbbo


    two wrongs don't make a right....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭Oilrig


    EGB, how many African countries have you lived & worked in? ie how well do you know the reality of that continent?

    Your statement reminds me of the attitude I had, as a student during the Dunnes strike... "Armoured cars and tanks and Dunnes" I still have the poster of a Saffer guarding a fence with an R4.

    Since then I've had the good fortune to see a lot of Africa, on the ground, as an insider for over a decade.

    Its not as simple as Black and White...

    Show me a non corrupt, competent African government and I'll show you a set of teeth for a hen :D

    and don't get me going on Zim...:mad:

    The OP is correct in predicting the end of Bok rugby as we know it, Jake White has endured an horrific time over the past few months due to political pressures. Madiba (Mandela) and all he stood for would not have allowed this to happen, it is the power and money hungry minions within the ANC that are destroying South Africa's future. If you want an idea of what's ahead Google Jacob Zuma... widely tipped as the next president. Read his history... I rest my case.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    I saw SA play Fiji last week, a great team but even my 13 year old son remarked at the number of white folk on the team. The innocence of youth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,728 ✭✭✭Naos


    Clearly you are all missing Harold Godwins point, "Blatantly racist" being the main words in the sentence.

    And Cavedave, look up the meaning of "Personal Abuse".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    Oilrig wrote: »
    EGB, how many African countries have you lived & worked in? ie how well do you know the reality of that continent?
    Does Blanchardstown count as an African country these days? :D

    I'm not saying I'm in favour of this reverse apartheid thing. I'm against it. What I am saying is that it is understandable that after years of oppression, the black man will harbour serious grudges against the people who enforced it.

    It's unfortunate that this grudge manifests itself in the shape of bringing a quota of blacks on the rugby team. As I say though, what goes around comes around!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭Oilrig


    EGB, you're right. You've identified revenge as the motivation for the imposed quota as opposed to any rational criteria.

    As for Blanch... no comment :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    My understanding is that not many of the "80%" actually play rugby and would be more inclined to play soccer as the main sport. IMO this whole thing has tinges of Mugabe about it. Sure you want your team to be representative of the country but you also want to be proud of its achievements. I don't believe the principle is necessarily bad i.e. field a team that represents demographics but I would have thought a plan like this would be something that might make sense over 20 years. Get structures in place, find that talent, nurse and coach it.
    Quotas in anything rarely do anything IMO, except pretend that something is being done. I think it's a pity for rugby , SA and the poor unfortunates who end getting picked on the "new" team.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,153 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    Jesus, it would be like we if had to play a certain percentage of Catholics/Protestants or Nordies/Republicans i.e. retarded.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Don't we have to have a Nordie on the Team?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 231 ✭✭ThomasH


    What a pathetic thing to say.
    The black man has been crapped on for years by white supremacists in SA. Now they're getting their revenge. It's a pity rugby may suffer, but what goes around comes around!
    TBH, most white folks these days would agree that "apartheid" was wrong. It was a culture where people were brought up to believe white is white and black is black but that has all changed now and people will think twice before saying they don't like blacks. Of course you still do get people who believe in this but that is a very small percentage. Still, two wrongs don't make a right. If they want more black players in the boks team start on the school level and put proper structures in place to develop these players.
    I saw SA play Fiji last week, a great team but even my 13 year old son remarked at the number of white folk on the team. The innocence of youth.
    That has nothing to do with racism tbh, it's purely as one poster said the main sport for white people and they have all been chosen on merits.
    My understanding is that not many of the "80%" actually play rugby and would be more inclined to play soccer as the main sport. IMO this whole thing has tinges of Mugabe about it. Sure you want your team to be representative of the country but you also want to be proud of its achievements. I don't believe the principle is necessarily bad i.e. field a team that represents demographics but I would have thought a plan like this would be something that might make sense over 20 years. Get structures in place, find that talent, nurse and coach it.
    Quotas in anything rarely do anything IMO, except pretend that something is being done. I think it's a pity for rugby , SA and the poor unfortunates who end getting picked on the "new" team.
    Spot on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 231 ✭✭ThomasH


    15 Years ago our school rugby team u/16 played against a local black neighbourhood school. We hammered them (96-0) as most of the guys in our team started playing rugby since they were 6. Our coach spoke to their coach after the game and he said most of his players (15 and 16 years old) only started playing 1-2 years ago. They played like 6 years old, which proves that they still had a lot of catch up to do.

    Fast forward to today and take a look at the SA Cravenweek (Doctor Danie Craven tournament for SA provinces) and you will see that a lot of good and quality coloured players play for their respective provinces. There is a lot of skill, pace and brains amongst these players. But to start throwing these youngsters in the national team could end their careers at an early stage. Introduce them slowly to club, currie cup and S14 rugby and from there take it to the national side. These developments and experience takes time and I reckon within 10 years time SA will have a huge pool of coloured players ready for national selection and no one will have an issue if there is 8-10 Bryan Habana's in the team :D


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hagar wrote: »
    I saw SA play Fiji last week, a great team but even my 13 year old son remarked at the number of white folk on the team. The innocence of youth.

    To be fair...how many black players can u think of who are glaring omissions from that team?


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