Irish Rail strike days

gauchesnell wrote: »

hi ya

just wondering if the irish rail strike days have been confirmed.

Also does anyone know the dates involved.

http://www.irishrail.ie/industrialaction

is there any hope of this being resolved this week? any talks planned ?

You get more info on here and teletext than the Unions .

Infini2 wrote: »

Heard from one of the lads that Franks apparently went off on holidays for 3 weeks. Would laugh if that turns out to be true.
As for the strikes themselves theyre on unless someone steps in which is unlikely since management are the ones trying to railroad this through and the minister is looking too incompetent to intervene. Was predicted that this could get ugly and I wouldnt be suprised if it turns that way considering the way things are going.

It was a PR stunt by SIPTU, we all know they would never of passed the NBRU picket so they waited until the NBRU were out of the news to bring the strike back into the public eye.

As for resolving it, this time next week they will be talking if they are not doing it this week.

charlietheminxx wrote: »

Commuting on Monday will be a disaster if it goes ahead. I reckon it will though, since the refunds for tickets are going through.

From what I've heard from the "rumormill" some of the managers want to talk but Franks has apparently told them to talk to noone. In addition theres been no attempt by management to avoid this unlike DB and BE which went down to the last minute even before their strikes. As for Franks basically being on holiday no matter what you say thats an own goal right there. Doesnt matter if your in communication it would be the same as the minister being off on holidays. He was the one that made the date for the implimentation of the cuts and now hes on holiday the same day the strikes are going ahead. Just reeks of "go feck yerselves" no matter what way you put it and shows they dont seem to be giving a damn about avoiding the strikes.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

"Senior management have taken a salary cut of 6.1%, according to Irish Rail."

That 6.1% is the percentage their grades will be taking in the cuts coming into effect on the 24th so they haven't taken it yet.

Little bit misleading.

They've accepted it, which is the main thing.

Personally I prefer certainty, so I'd be happier in the knowledge they are going ahead so that I can make alternative arrangements, rather than being left in any sort of limbo.

cdebru wrote: »

Different company but same company

All this was said about DB last year cpany is on its knees its very survival depended on these cuts yada yada independently verified books labour court accepted these cuts had to happen to save the company.

Then the accounts come out for 2013
http://m.independent.ie/business/irish/dublin-bus-and-bus-eireann-turn-profits-for-first-time-in-years-30260696.html

A 500,000 surplus when the company the unions and the labor court were telling us the company is ****ed. So when I read these stories I say to myself more bull****.

BTW interesting fact DBs cost saving are for 19 months or until the company returns to profitability which ever comes first so the company is profitable the deal must be over ????? The unions will surely have gone back to the labour court and pointed this out ???

That is why CIE workers don't trust the company its management, the labour court or the trade unions.

That's well and good, but the accumulated losses (at nearly €52m) that have built up are still massive and need to be eaten into.


Perhaps you should analyse the company's balance sheet and you'll realise how bad the accounts are.


You cannot simply make a judgement based on a single year - you need to look at the trend and the context of the company's overall position.


Frankly that balance sheet needs an awful lot of work.


http://dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/2430/2013EnglishAnnualReport.pdf

CatFromHue wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0801/634643-irish-rail-nbru/




http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/irish-rail-workers-to-go-on-strike-30477637.html

For someone who doesn't follow this regularly when I read stuff like the above I have no sympathy for the strikers, none.

Firstly, nobody is looking for sympathy off anyone.
Its a bit more complicated than just the pay cut. In reality they want around €6000 off each person on the lower end of the scale. They say that the pay would be restored to its present rate at the end of 28 months but still havent given a guarantee that the company would be in a position to do so at the end of it.
Why should the staff have to take cut in wages to steady the ship (or train in this matter ) when the part owners want more people to travel for free and not put the money into the company to pay for it?
There are other cuts involved as well apart from the pay.
If the money will be there to restore the rates after 28 months then the Unions didnt bother looking for the 7% pay rise that was due a while ago so they can go and wotsits from now on. Its strange that in the midst of cuts, that one section of the company got their pay rise only a few months ago.
If you were getting abuse off people every day , verbal and threatened physically, wished that you would die of cancer etc, would you be happy to have you wages cut even further on top of it?
Plug the holes and lets have an even playing field here before cutting pay even further.

Slattsy wrote: »

I dont know the ins and outs of this, and i dont want to stir anything, so maybe someone can confirm - have staff taken any form of a paycut over the last number of years?

Not against core pay however they agreed to reduced terms and conditions 2 years ago in return for leaving core pay alone till 2016. Lets also not forget not only all the new taxes introduced by the government as well as the water taxes otw and the fact pay has been frozen since 2007. Now theyre back trying to railroad cuts through again thereby breaking the previous agreement. On top of this the government keeps cutting the subsidy to undermine the company while management keep filling their own jobs. There was even a management job advertised internally the same week they announced the pay cuts not to mention a continuous stream of them being advertised over the last year or so. All the while frontline jobs like booking offices where the customers are are left unfilled. Hell its gotten so bad in some places they have to keep asking people to come in on overtime such is the lack of staff in these grades.

If it were simply just over a few euro it might seem petty but theres more factors in this and its all of these that are coming around to create this not least of all is trust. Without that there can be no agreement because how can you make a deal if the other side keeps breaking their agreements.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

In reality they want around €6000 off each person on the lower end of the scale.

1.7% of €56,000 is €952.

Can you explain how you arrived at €6000 for those paid at the low end?

In fairness the unions knew what they were doing when they picked those days.

Infini2 wrote: »

Not against core pay however they agreed to reduced terms and conditions 2 years ago in return for leaving core pay alone till 2016. Lets also not forget not only all the new taxes introduced by the government as well as the water taxes otw and the fact pay has been frozen since 2007. Now theyre back trying to railroad cuts through again thereby breaking the previous agreement. On top of this the government keeps cutting the subsidy to undermine the company while management keep filling their own jobs. There was even a management job advertised internally the same week they announced the pay cuts not to mention a continuous stream of them being advertised over the last year or so. All the while frontline jobs like booking offices where the customers are are left unfilled. Hell its gotten so bad in some places they have to keep asking people to come in on overtime such is the lack of staff in these grades.

If it were simply just over a few euro it might seem petty but theres more factors in this and its all of these that are coming around to create this not least of all is trust. Without that there can be no agreement because how can you make a deal if the other side keeps breaking their agreements.

While I understand people's frustrations, bringing external elements such as water charges and other taxes etc. into this dispute is a false argument - everyone has to pay those, and most people in the private sector have long ago had their core pay cut - in most companies this happened over three, four or five years ago.


As I understand it, some of the new management roles have been forced on the company because the railways have to had to come into compliance with EU law (separating infrastructure management from operations) after an extended derogation - whether people like it or not that has had to happen.


The subsidy has reduced for two reasons, firstly a substantial drop in passenger numbers, and secondly reflects the financial realities of the State that we live in - the country is still in a precarious financial position, having avoided bankruptcy by the skin of its teeth. Every sector of public expenditure has been hit, and unfortunately public transport is no different. The PSO subsidy is, as I understand it, now frozen for at least the next two years at current levels.


Within every company the same reality hits in tough times. You can cut overheads so much, but ultimately the single biggest cost in any company is unfortunately usually payroll, and that is ultimately where the savings will have to come from.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Yes 7%.

Most other public and private company's have taken 10-20% cuts easily.

If Income tax is cut in the budget it may very well cancel out any basic cut to wages.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Most other public and private company's have taken 10-20% cuts easily.

If Income tax is cut in the budget it may very well cancel out any basic cut to wages.

So? Just because workers in other companies have been screwed with their cuts, IR employees must do the same is that it?

Just because someone else is on a low wage doesnt mean everyone else should be as well.
Its a race to the bottom and FG wont be happy until everyone is on minimum wage apart from themselves.

cdebru wrote: »

Frankly a deal is a deal 19 months or when the company is profitable was the labour court recommendation accepted by the employees and the employers, the company is now profitable and clearly was at the time it was pleading poverty in the labour court.

It was all lies and spin, they started off looking for nearly 12 million accepted nearly half that in the end but were already profitable.

The deal clearly can not be over multiple years profitability because it is only a 19 month deal, the deal will only have a few weeks to run when the next accounts are released, it is a prime example of why you can't trust the company the labour court or the unions who haven't bothered to even raise the issue on behalf of their members.

The company are skint and have been for the last few years. They are living week to week. They are up on the first quarter this year but still in the danger zone so to speak. The Government know this and refuse to input more money in an effort to drive down the wages.
I dont agree with the strike as a work to rule would have messed them up without the staff loosing pay. No extra trains for the All Irelands etc, Possessions being handed back late etc. massive disruptions due to delays, walk off site at your allocated time and not hang back to sort it out.
The next person that looks down their nose at you just because you are in uniform and gives you abuse for nothing, tell them where to go as you dont get paid to be treated like dirt from them.

lxflyer wrote: »

While I understand people's frustrations, bringing external elements such as water charges and other taxes etc. into this dispute is a false argument - everyone has to pay those, and most people in the private sector have long ago had their core pay cut - in most companies this happened over three, four or five years ago.


As I understand it, some of the new management roles have been forced on the company because the railways have to had to come into compliance with EU law (separating infrastructure management from operations) after an extended derogation - whether people like it or not that has had to happen.


The subsidy has reduced for two reasons, firstly a substantial drop in passenger numbers, and secondly reflects the financial realities of the State that we live in - the country is still in a precarious financial position, having avoided bankruptcy by the skin of its teeth. Every sector of public expenditure has been hit, and unfortunately public transport is no different. The PSO subsidy is, as I understand it, now frozen for at least the next two years at current levels.


Within every company the same reality hits in tough times. You can cut overheads so much, but ultimately the single biggest cost in any company is unfortunately usually payroll, and that is ultimately where the savings will have to come from.

The passenger numbers are up.
Its ok for us to pay twice then is it? If Irish Rail got the exact fare from the government for those that travel free then they would be in profit every year.
I'd say 60 - 70 % of those that travel outside of the peak hours are on free travel , its getting silly.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Your right it doesn't but if its a case of solvency for companies then workers would make a compromise. IE employees problem is you expect the taxpayer will bail you out. This deal is better than what was proposed and even if you were given clarity about subsidy etc I don't think it would make a single difference at the ballot boxes.

Note that those employees pay up to 46% in tax every week so they would be bailing themselves out.