Can Astronomy Ireland really be considered an 'Astronomy club' anymore?

Thargor · 08-06-2009 12:15pm

There was a big long post from someone in here last night about being hassled on the phone by AI but he must have deleted it.

Linguo · 08-06-2009 12:54pm

Yeah but I gotta be honest, the person he was talking about was me when I worked there!!! I was forced to call other clubs and ask!I didn't hassle the man I had set questions I was made ask! Staff dont have many choices and he never tells you that other clubs dont want to talk to you!Acted like they were friendly with each other!! So for most staff it's very hard work, hence me getting the hell out of there when I figured out the type of place it was!

Slow Motion · 08-06-2009 12:57pm

Can I ask why that post was deleted?

Edit: Don't want to start a thread in feedback, I am just curious as I didn't notice anything wrong with it!

Frank Ryan Jr · 08-06-2009 6:24pm

I wrote the deleted post but let me clear up something.
I never said I was 'hassled'.
I said I was 'cold called'.

The fact is I am the secretary of Shannonside Astronomy Club
and I even though I have my own personal opinions about Mr. Moore
and his businesses, I thought it would be ill conceived of me to voice them here because it would be impossible for readers to make the distinction between my opinions as opposed to the clubs position on the matter.
Maybe sometime in the future if and when I am no longer a committee member in SAC I will but for now it think it's best for me & my club to just make no comment.
As for SAC's position on the matter it is that we have no position on the matter.
What Mr. Moore does does not effect us in the slightest.

As for the girl that called me,
I really felt sorry for her that she had to ring me like that that day.
It was embarrassing. I felt like I was being 'cold called' from an insurance company.

In the end, I actually did inform the club of the phone call and of the courses.
Honestly, the reaction from them was one of amusement.
None of our membership signed up for them.
I'm sure you can understand why.

Calibos · 08-06-2009 8:26pm

Frank Ryan Jr wrote: »

........What Mr. Moore does does not effect us in the slightest.

Surely it affects us in that each club would have a lot more paying members and less people would be scared off astronomy if they didn't think the only option for a decent apeture telescope was a multi thousand pound Celestron SCT or if they didn't think that the only way to find out about ISS passes was a 1 euro per text, text service. I'd say so many people decide to take up astronomy, think AI and the gear they sell and the services they offer are the only ones available and then come to the conclusion that this Astronomy lark is way too expensive a hobby for them. (Obviously it can be expensive but only when you get so far into it that you want uber apeture and AP gear.) Every outreach event I get asked how much my Chinese 12" Dob cost. I tell them the cost includng all my mods and still people are amazed at how cheap my 'Huge' scope is. They are invariably even more flaberghasted when I tell them what the base scope cost without all my add-ons. They are blown away when I tell them they can get my scope without the DSC computer for a few hundred less. No one will tell me this isn't because they got the impression 12" scopes were 4 or 5 grand from the AI shop.

BTW, is that true about charging money to look through the scopes at public events!!! I knew AI did things differently, lets put it that way...but chargeing people to look through a scope at a free outreach event!!! OMG!!

ON a sidenote. AI got my email address when I sent off a Fireball report. Ever since I have been getting promotional emails from them. The unsubscribe links don't work (Suprise, Suprise

). So I set up a mail rule in outlook express to delete these emails straight away when they arrive.....except they were still coming!! I noticed they were sending via a different amil address too, so I set up another mail rule to delete emails coming from this address too.....except they are still coming!! How many email addresses does AI bulk send from!!!

Linguo · 09-06-2009 8:52am

The biggest problem is that the club isn't willing to change at all for the better, myself and other staff when we worked there came up with great ideas but they weren't taken seriously because people in there want their own way or no way!

As for the 'cold call' I simply had no choice at the time and didn't understand why people were odd on the phone to me when I had to call, all of which I understand now. But when staff are standing over you and telling you what to say you don't have much choice. It all contributed to me leaving after a short time there!

Slow Motion · 09-06-2009 9:31am

Jaysus! This thread makes for some quite shocking reading, who knew astronomy was such a hotbed of deciept and intrigue? There is a soap in this!;)

Frank Ryan Jr · 12-06-2009 12:30am

Calibos wrote: »

Surely it affects us in that each club would have a lot more paying members

Hmm....Maybe so in Dublin or in other areas where he has set up other branches of his business with 'volunteers' or whatever, I'm not sure...
SAC covers Clare, Tipperary and Limerick and apart form the odd course he runs down here very few years AI may as well be in New York or on the Moon for that matter for all the effect it has on us as a club.
In fact some new members that joined SAC last month had actually paid for the AI course and when it was over wanted to go further and join a local active club so obviously that is going to be us.
Thats just geography and sense.
I'm sure there are some in our area that pay a subscription to AI and get the monthly mag and are on the email list and that's fine for them,
but if people in our area that want to pay 40 bucks and be part of an actual local club that have meetings / workshops / regular observing sessions /
club equipment to use 12'' dob / 10'' sct , various other scopes / a website / messageboards / free text alert system / starparty / public observing sessions (all free) / the list go's on - then they have that choice too.

TJJP · 12-06-2009 12:38am

dmcdona wrote: »

The whole AI "subject" has been discussed extensively over the years. The sentiments expressed here are held by many people. But its a free country and AI/A&S Ltd are entitled to do whatever they want within the law.

Iridium wrote: »

That is correct. The actual live membership when I used to volunteer was something like 2,500 yet they were claiming over 9,000 members at the time.

Calibos wrote: »

I so regret submitting my fireball report to AI now. Ever since I have been innundated with AI spam

+1

The post fireball report e-mail scam is well dodgy. I didn't sign up for spam but I'm getting plenty of it now. Not convinced that e-mail harvesting is within the law but it sure boosts 'member' numbers.

Linguo · 12-06-2009 9:16am

I got given out to big time by both the 'CEO' and 'Chairman' when I was there for unsubscribing people from the list when they asked. I was meant to tell him first and then he would send a special email trying to get you to re-consider....

Seanie M · 12-06-2009 11:37am

Got that e-mail TWICE when I tried to be unsubscribed. Damn annoying.

Seanie.

Dave Lillis · 12-06-2009 10:06pm

Hi,
I cant believe Moore is still up to his old tricks!!
I was put in his damned email list a few years ago and it took 2 emails (I was well cheesed off writing the second one so it was very blatent) to get off it.

I'm reading this thread and its like 5-6 years ago all over again, its very funny, Moore sucks in people because lets be honest he has a publicity machine thing going with RTE (if you're not in/near Dublin then RTE dont want to know), those members/suckers/victims whatever... then get wise to the guy and then discover the other clubs across the country and then leave Moore and his money making machine behind and join a real club.

Charging people for a look through a scope is terrible!, and this craic with "celestron only" is soo obviously self serving, it just says it all.

Frank Ryan Jr · 13-06-2009 1:59am

Linguo wrote: »

I got given out to big time by both the 'CEO' and 'Chairman' when I was there for unsubscribing people from the list when they asked. I was meant to tell him first and then he would send a special email trying to get you to re-consider....

Oh dear,
That's just business I suppose.
Hmmm,
this gives me an Idea.........

redman · 13-06-2009 8:22am

I just my first email from them in years even though I am not a "member" in about 4 years.

Have to see if my fresh unsubscribes work ...no acknowledgement. This is what I received out of the blue:

Dear Member of Astronomy Ireland,

We are flying in Hanny van Arkel - a world-famous amateur astronomer - from the Netherlands to give a talk for you in Dublin next Monday, 15 June.

You will remember reading about Hanny, a schoolteacher, in your October magazine last year (page 10). She found a new object a million million million miles across. A completely new kind of object about the size of a galaxy. This catapulted her to international fame and she has been the toast of media attention and spoken at astronomy conventions worldwide.

As we expand Astronomy Ireland we want to run more major Public Lectures like this, but is this what you want?

Book tickets HERE.

Will you come to the lecture next Monday?

Ostrom · 15-06-2009 8:00am

dmcdona wrote: »

The whole AI "subject" has been discussed extensively over the years. The sentiments expressed here are held by many people. But its a free country and AI/A&S Ltd are entitled to do whatever they want within the law.

Equally though, the average punter is also equally entitled to do whatever they want - subscribe, buy from the shop etc - or not.

There are alternatives for the average punter - irishastronomy.org hosts all the IFAS affiliated clubs across Ireland (including the North). It also has a very active board area (free subscription) covering all aspects of astronomy, including the purchase of equipment.

Dave

What are the alternatives for buying in Ireland?

Delphi91 · 15-06-2009 11:46am

efla wrote: »

What are the alternatives for buying in Ireland?

Uh, don't buy in Ireland?

I've just bought a telescope (well, ordered in last December, but it's gonna be delivered in the next day or so) and I saved loads by buying in the UK (Nor'n Ireland actually). I was lucky enough to be able to order when the exchange rate was almost 1:1 so that helped enormously. But I have to say that the help, advice and continuous contact that I received over the past 6 months was well worth it and I'd buy from the same supplier again.

I looked at AI as a supplier, but I didn't like the fact that I was restricted to one specific brand only - I looked at a number of places online, all of whom had a number of different brands and was able to compare them very favourably for price, delivery, special offers, etc.

Merch · 15-06-2009 12:57pm

Astronomy Ireland
Hmm been a few years, here was me thinking I was the only person that had come across them in a bad way,
I must look into other clubs, is there a web page that has a list of links for clubs in dublin??

murphyme · 15-06-2009 1:28pm

Merch wrote: »

Astronomy Ireland
Hmm been a few years, here was me thinking I was the only person that had come across them in a bad way,
I must look into other clubs, is there a web page that has a list of links for clubs in dublin??

Try here:

http://www.irishastronomy.org/cms/about/ifas-maps?task=viewmap&mapId=1

Michael.

Merch · 15-06-2009 1:32pm

thanks

dmcdona · 15-06-2009 7:22pm

efla wrote: »

What are the alternatives for buying in Ireland?

You can buy from North Down Telescopes in Northern Ireland. Conns Cameras in Dublin were selling Celestron 'scopes recently (but I'm not sure if they still are).

The UK has a wide variety of distributors as do other European countries (Netherlands, France, Spain, Austria etc)

You can also buy from the USA.

Equally, there are some very good astronomy websites with a second-hand section - Astromart is probably the biggest.

Hope that helps...

Thargor · 18-06-2009 12:34am

I was looking for a Celestron 102 refractor recently and a rake of UK suppliers turned me down when I asked for a quote and pointed me to Astronomy Ireland as the Irish supplier I had to use, then I saw the exact scope I wanted in the window of a camera shop in Galway, turns out they were some kind of AI middlemen and they'd added on their own €100 tax to AI's already ridiculous €500 asking price. €600 for a scope I eventually found for sale on IFAS secondhand for €250 with a load of free accesories like a 12V powerpack and a Celestron Omni 2X barlow and an eyepice case. I think if you see any Celestrons for sale anywhere like that AI will still have a hand in it.

It'll be the secondhand market again for me the next time I upgrade aswell, no point paying full price when nobody looks after their kit better than astronomers and usually the only reason they're selling is because they're upgrading themselves.

100% recycled · 21-06-2009 8:42pm

Thargor wrote: »

I was looking for a Celestron 102 refractor recently and a rake of UK suppliers turned me down when I asked for a quote and pointed me to Astronomy Ireland as the Irish supplier I had to use, then I saw the exact scope I wanted in the window of a camera shop in Galway, turns out they were some kind of AI middlemen and they'd added on their own €100 tax to AI's already ridiculous €500 asking price. €600 for a scope I eventually found for sale on IFAS secondhand for €250 with a load of free accesories like a 12V powerpack and a Celestron Omni 2X barlow and an eyepice case. I think if you see any Celestrons for sale anywhere like that AI will still have a hand in it.

It'll be the secondhand market again for me the next time I upgrade aswell, no point paying full price when nobody looks after their kit better than astronomers and usually the only reason they're selling is because they're upgrading themselves.

I wanted to get the exact same scope for my younger brothers birthday. Difference is, one of the companies in the UK actually agreed to ship over to me (it was a much better price than AI were offering with lots of extras). I was all ready to do the deal but they pulled out at the last minute saying AI had made a complaint against them to the main distributor (apparently they had told quite a few Irish people they could ship here) and if they sent to me they could be shut down!

How can AI have such a strangle hold on the Irish market. There is no fair market, it's a monopoly!! If they were competitive I wouldn't mind but their prices are ridiculously expensive. Ferry to the UK when I plan to buy next I think :pac:

Seanie M · 22-06-2009 4:16pm

100% recycled wrote: »

How can AI have such a strangle hold on the Irish market.

This has always interested me and my astro buddies. I can only think that he plays the "only Irish distributor" card aggressively to make you (and as I have just read here, the other English distributor) believe A&S Ltd is the ONLY Irish source for Celestron. If that's the case, where do chemist shops and Argos get them from, because it certainly is not through A&S Ltd.

Besides, whilst Celestron is a good brand, there are better brands out there too. Shop around is the common message. I got a Skywatcher 80ED refractor for €265 second hand (OTA-only). That's about close to a Celestron priced new of similar spec, but is better quality. Keep an eye out for bargains likes that.

Seanie.
(NOT attempting to bad-mouth Celestron, merely pointing out the benefits of waiting that little longer for a great bargain to come your way)

Linguo · 22-06-2009 4:34pm

Yeah! He told all the staff that as well, Celestron were aggressively trying to get him to get other dealers secured around the country....he got a few but apart from that he said no one else in republic was allowed deal with Celestron

Slow Motion · 23-06-2009 10:15am

Linguo wrote: »

Yeah! He told all the staff that as well, Celestron were aggressively trying to get him to get other dealers secured around the country....he got a few but apart from that he said no one else in republic was allowed deal with Celestron

Is that not illegal? False advertising at least?

Linguo · 23-06-2009 10:17am

I dont think so I must be saying it wrong, as far as we knew he was the only person allowed sell Celestron in the republic at all but was allowed distribute to other dealers through him! Think thats it

squonk · 23-06-2009 12:12pm

Maybe it's worth a lot of us writing to Celestron to complain that his dealership isn't up to scratch in our eyes? I've never liked A&S's pricing and bought my scope in the UK because A&S simply weren't a viable alternative. Before I go further I don't own a Celestron, I own a Meade instead but the point is that compared to going the A&S route, you can get your hands on Meade's realtively inexpensively. My introduction to the brand was through Aldi's yearly scope offer. A&S's pricing was always a barrier to my entering the market for a scope and I didn't know enough about the subject to shop abroad. Now, because I got a nice Meade scope for €600 one day, I'm a Meade customer. Celestron have lost my custom and, given the lifetime of scopes I won't be in the market again for a long, long time. I only recently upgraded to an LX-90.

Given the previous comments on this form, perhaps it's time we did something instead of keeping this a closed discussion without any action?

I'm not sure if Celestron would be very receptive but perhaps in the long run it might lead to greater competition here in the Irish market?

Seanie M · 23-06-2009 12:38pm

squonk wrote: »

Given the previous comments on this form, perhaps it's time we did something instead of keeping this a closed discussion without any action?

I'm not sure if Celestron would be very receptive but perhaps in the long run it might lead to greater competition here in the Irish market?

Just chucking in my two cents worth here, but this thread is NOT against Celestron. They are just caught up in something that is a side issue to what we were really talking about here. We don't want defamatory lawsuits here...

Seanie.

Slow Motion · 23-06-2009 12:55pm

Maybe someone should email them a link to this thread! Mods if this suggestion is inappropriate please feel free to delete it, and I suggest no one act upon it until a mod comments!

squonk · 23-06-2009 1:29pm

Just to clarify, I have no antipathy towards Celestron. By all accounts I've heard they make fine scopes and equipment. I'd recommend their equipment to anyone. I did do enough independent research when buying my LX-90 to know it was the one I wanted.

The propblem is purely A&S and their dealsership. Many people appear to be quite unhappy and the thrust of my post was actually to act as a benefit to Celestron by getting across to them what was going on on the ground.

I want to see more people out there with scopes and the way to do that is to get people buying scopes at value for money prices, and I'd actually love some hands on experience with a Celestron. Everybody wins by being able to buy a scope at a decent price and I believe companies, such as Celestron would sell more.

Linguo · 23-06-2009 1:52pm

Yeah Celestron have great scopes, we have the 8se and it's the business!

Slow Motion · 23-06-2009 2:00pm

squonk wrote: »

Just to clarify, I have no antipathy towards Celestron. By all accounts I've heard they make fine scopes and equipment. I'd recommend their equipment to anyone. I did do enough independent research when buying my LX-90 to know it was the one I wanted.

The propblem is purely A&S and their dealsership. Many people appear to be quite unhappy and the thrust of my post was actually to act as a benefit to Celestron by getting across to them what was going on on the ground.

I want to see more people out there with scopes and the way to do that is to get people buying scopes at value for money prices, and I'd actually love some hands on experience with a Celestron. Everybody wins by being able to buy a scope at a decent price and I believe companies, such as Celestron would sell more.

I agree, they seem to be getting tarred by association

100% recycled · 24-06-2009 12:41am

squonk wrote: »

Just to clarify, I have no antipathy towards Celestron....
The propblem is purely A&S and their dealsership.

Seanie M wrote: »

Just chucking in my two cents worth here, but this thread is NOT against Celestron. They are just caught up in something that is a side issue to what we were really talking about here. We don't want defamatory lawsuits here...

Seanie.

Slow Motion wrote: »

I agree, they seem to be getting tarred by association

Agree with the above. I actually really rate Celestron as a brand. I have quite a bit of Celestron kit mixed into my own set up. My major problem is the fact that Astronomy Ireland and A&S seem to have no division.

From my understanding;

Astronomy Ireland is an astronomy club.

Astronomy & Space is Mr Moores private business.

Now I have absolutely no problem with the man having a shop and earning a living, fair play to him. But what does that have to do with the Astronomy Ireland club... supposedly nothing, except that Moore is also AI's "Chairman".

Here's where things get messy.

A&S LTD sell their telescopes on the Astronomy Ireland CLUB webpage but rather worryingly they are calling themselves "Astronomy Ireland Telescopes". Here is a quote from the site;

Quality Telescopes - Great Value

If you want to buy a telescope in Ireland there's only one place to go, Astronomy Ireland.

See there are two problems with that statement,

1 - They are FAR from great value!!!
2 - They are A&S Scopes not AI Scopes.

So Astronomy Ireland are a CLUB, yet they;

-Allow a private business to advertise on their site using their branding.
-Only allow Celestron scopes at their events.
-Lie about membership numbers.
-Do not have an elected committee.
-Charge a fee to look through scopes at events.

Reality of the situation in my opinion is the Mr Moore uses the Astronomy Ireland "Club" to advertise his telescopes and make himself a profit. I have yet to see an AI Club event that has not been riddled with sales pitches and hype for his shop and products, it's actually quite embarrassing!

Apparently if your scope was not purchased from AI/A&S it is not worth pointing at the sky.

Please just be honest with the public. It will do your public image / sales the world of good.

I also despise the way Moore brands himself as "Irelands Best Known Astronomer" :mad:

Just because you whore yourself around the Irish media, it does not make you an astronomer. You sir, are a businessman. Leave the best known Astronomer tag to people like Dave McDonald and Dave Grennan, you know, two guys who discovered asteroids and are actually going a long way to encourage more people to get involved in the hobby, not just make a few quick bucks from it.

/drunken rant at AI/A&S/Moore Ltd.

Drunken Tuesday night posting ftw :cool:

Seanie M · 24-06-2009 4:57pm

Well said 100% recycled.

Seanie.

mukki · 24-06-2009 10:09pm

well done 100% recycled
very clear and informative, everyone interested in astronomy should read your post

Dave Lillis · 26-06-2009 3:56pm

What a post!, I couldnt have said it better, people have nothing against Celestron. I own several scopes, one of them is a nice 4" celestron refractor.

He actually used to sell other brands in the past. Back in the late 1990s, I got a quote of £10500 for a 12" LX200 :eek:, I almost dropped the phone in shock, I gave him a chance to explain the price and then he went off trying to sell me some Dob. I knew the price in London/Europe and the US for the scope, I did my research before I rang him. I ended up getting the same scope a few weeks later in telescope house for less then half the price. So you see the price issue isnt just with celestron equipment.
I have no problem with someone making a profit, but been ripped off?.
Shop around, dont jump on the first scope you find, consider getting it secondhand on astromart, cloudynights, you'll save a fortune.

I've heard so many disaster stories over the years, I wouldnt buy a lens cap off this guy.

Ostrom · 26-06-2009 6:19pm

As an outsider I'm finding this very confusing...

I'm in the market for a scope at the moment, and I cant seem to see an alternative to buy in Ireland other than sourcing online.

I'm quite into photography, and I assume like yourselves (as with us) you guys build up online contacts - you know who the good suppliers are online, where to get parts etc... I'm finding it tough to get my head around as I'm completely new to astronomy.

As a contribution to the thread - It appears to me as if AI are the only option for buying, and to me, they presented more as a private enterprise than a typical enthusiast network (club, association, society...). I was under the impression (until I read this thread) that they were only in retail.

Linguo · 29-06-2009 9:07am

North Down Telescopes are meant to be good, it'll mean a bit of a trip up North but it could be well worth it! Other people buy from abroad and pay to have it shipped over, shipping costs a lot but it can actually work out cheaper!

Dr Pepper · 29-06-2009 12:00pm

AndyMcCrea - North Down Telescopes
http://www.northdowntelescopes.co.uk/

He's a very decent chap and I think he delivers around Ireland (although he may have been threatened/chased out of the Irish market by now). I got a quote from him a few years ago for a Celestron C11 which was several hundred less than the A&S price. A&S said they'd match his price so I bought from them because I was impatient and naive - One of my biggest regrets!! A&S were initially trying to rip me off and NDT just gave me a fair and reasonable price straight off - Still kicking myself that I didn't give Andy the business.

Finally, I'd just like to add my voice to the many here complaining about the corrupt dictatorship that is AI!

Edit/ Fixed NDT URL!

100% recycled · 03-07-2009 6:55pm

I see the Dublin Lyric Players are putting on a play soon as part of IYA 2009, "The Life of Galileo".

I was really interested at first but then I spotted something in the bottom left of the webpage...

It will be "Presented in Association with Astronomy Ireland"

I wonder will AI insist they use a Celestron scope lol

"Mr Moore are you sure Galileo used a Celestron CPC 1100??" :P

mrmurroe · 03-07-2009 10:40pm

Some thoughts from a recent astronomy convert.

Was going to to buy a scope earlier this year, but instead spent the money on AIs course being run in UL. Saw the advert in the local paper and took the plunge. I think it was €180 for 8 lectures and a subscription to the magazine. The course material isn't bad, as good a 'catchall' as you'll get in the time allowed.

Was the course good value - for me yes as it converted a casual interest to the early stages of a lifelong astronomy hobby. A good bit of this was down to the UL lecturer who delivered the course material.
However, the A&S magazine subscription could be a lot better. I like the idea of having an Irish magazine but TBH I won't be renewing as the mag is alsmost the same price as much better UK/US alternatives.

Have subsequently gone along to the local astronomy club which was a very positive and worthwhile experience (would highly recommend this to any potential astronomers).

Subsequently bought a pair of binoculars from Lidl (Bresser 10x50 - €20) and have put them to good use at night, although would really like a mount or tripod for them (suggestions welcome).

Personaly I've no axe to grind but it appears that AI/A&S are doing/have done a good job at promoting astronomy in Ireland to a certain level, even if there are commercial interests involved. But they won't be getting any more of my Euros unless their telescope prices become much more competitive. From a lot of reading online I'd have to agree with the concerns expressed here and elsewhere WRT the 'overlap' between the AI (club) and A&S (commercial).

However I do think that IFAS and local Astronomy clubs could do a better job at promoting themselves both locally and nationally. Seems to be a lot of people moaning about a certain individual using his unique position to exploit Joe Public but nobody is offering an alternative.

Biff-co · 07-07-2009 10:30am

mrmurroe wrote: »

Some thoughts from a recent astronomy convert.

Was going to to buy a scope earlier this year, but instead spent the money on AIs course being run in UL. Saw the advert in the local paper and took the plunge. I think it was €180 for 8 lectures and a subscription to the magazine. The course material isn't bad, as good a 'catchall' as you'll get in the time allowed.

Was the course good value - for me yes as it converted a casual interest to the early stages of a lifelong astronomy hobby. A good bit of this was down to the UL lecturer who delivered the course material.
However, the A&S magazine subscription could be a lot better. I like the idea of having an Irish magazine but TBH I won't be renewing as the mag is alsmost the same price as much better UK/US alternatives.

Have subsequently gone along to the local astronomy club which was a very positive and worthwhile experience (would highly recommend this to any potential astronomers).

Subsequently bought a pair of binoculars from Lidl (Bresser 10x50 - €20) and have put them to good use at night, although would really like a mount or tripod for them (suggestions welcome).

Personaly I've no axe to grind but it appears that AI/A&S are doing/have done a good job at promoting astronomy in Ireland to a certain level, even if there are commercial interests involved. But they won't be getting any more of my Euros unless their telescope prices become much more competitive. From a lot of reading online I'd have to agree with the concerns expressed here and elsewhere WRT the 'overlap' between the AI (club) and A&S (commercial).

However I do think that IFAS and local Astronomy clubs could do a better job at promoting themselves both locally and nationally. Seems to be a lot of people moaning about a certain individual using his unique position to exploit Joe Public but nobody is offering an alternative.

And do you ever go to Dublin for events or are you happy enough with what goes on in Limerick? Have you visited the A&s store? Just wondering what people around the country feel about this. I have an interest in astronomy and would consider getting my scope from a&s for ease, not sure how to approach it though

Slow Motion · 07-07-2009 10:37am

Biff-co wrote: »

And do you ever go to Dublin for events or are you happy enough with what goes on in Limerick? Have you visited the A&s store? Just wondering what people around the country feel about this. I have an interest in astronomy and would consider getting my scope from a&s for ease, not sure how to approach it though

I suggest you take the time and read this whole thread before doing that. There seems to be a huge difference between the prices they charge and what you can get with a little research, there are a few links and a lot of information in this thread also if you decide on something I am sure there are those more knowledgable than me who could advise you. There are also some very informative stickys in this forum they are well worth a look.

Saruman · 07-07-2009 10:55am

I used to be a member, I even went to one of their training sessions. The teacher was a teenager, or possibly a young looking 20 something but most of the people he was teaching were younger than he was.
Now he knew his stuff, I just get the feeling that he could have been a teen and paid feck all for his time or even volunteered while Moore took the money.

I got my first scope a Celestron EQ 80 from them.
I no longer have a scope and while I have a interest, these days I do not go star gazing. I have binoculars which do.

My problem was its just so hard to get a clear night that having a scope did not seem worth it to me.
A friend of mine has a nice big scope and he came down to my house and set up in the garden as it was clear. By the time we had our dinner it had started to rain....

On Mr Moore, I always found being in the shop that things were a little odd. I could never put my finger on it.

Hadouken!! · 07-07-2009 11:33am

Some very interesting posts in here

I have to say, I agree with most of the things being said.

AI need to do themselves a favour and distance themselves from A&S as far as possible.

I'd even go so far as to suggest to that the powers that be that they sever ties completely!! (and I hope they get to read this!!)

If people viewed AI as a club instead of a marketing machine for a shop, membership numbers would soar and astronomy as a hobby in Ireland would reap the rewards. AI do far more advertising than all the other astronomy clubs put together, but it's basically useless if you push new members away. At the end of the day, it's a hobby. And a cool one at that. But if peoples only exposure to it is "Hey you want to see some great planets, then you have to buy telescopes from one place and one place only... and give me all your money, ra ra ra!" they will run a mile.

Every other club is a part of IFAS, so why the hell can't AI be? It boils down to one persons stubbornness and lack of ability to see the bigger picture. One giant Astronomy Club... jeez, it would do wonders for the hobby. Imagine the public events, the resource of scopes you could entice the public with, the skies really would be the limit!!

But I just can't see it happening. Certain people need to take their heads out of their black holes and join the real world!!

As for the shop end of things, A&S should disappear from the Astronomy Ireland umbrella. The link between the two is basically sucking the business dry. There is no point in selling people their first telescope and then alienating them. People get wise, get pi$$ed off at the political BS and when they want to upgrade to some serious gear, they source it elsewhere. So from a business stand point, A&S are not on the ball at all.

Most people who are very serious about astronomy do not deal with A&S, fact!

And unless things change in a big way, I'd have to agree with most of the people above, everyone interested in astronomy should go and find a real club. Visit the IFAS website and support your local club, support the hobby.

Linguo · 07-07-2009 12:31pm

Hadouken!! wrote: »

Some very interesting posts in here

I have to say, I agree with most of the things being said.

AI need to do themselves a favour and distance themselves from A&S as far as possible.

I'd even go so far as to suggest to that the powers that be that they sever ties completely!! (and I hope they get to read this!!)

If people viewed AI as a club instead of a marketing machine for a shop, membership numbers would soar and astronomy as a hobby in Ireland would reap the rewards. AI do far more advertising than all the other astronomy clubs put together, but it's basically useless if you push new members away. At the end of the day, it's a hobby. And a cool one at that. But if peoples only exposure to it is "Hey you want to see some great planets, then you have to buy telescopes from one place and one place only... and give me all your money, ra ra ra!" they will run a mile.

Every other club is a part of IFAS, so why the hell can't AI be? It boils down to one persons stubbornness and lack of ability to see the bigger picture. One giant Astronomy Club... jeez, it would do wonders for the hobby. Imagine the public events, the resource of scopes you could entice the public with, the skies really would be the limit!!

But I just can't see it happening. Certain people need to take their heads out of their black holes and join the real world!!

As for the shop end of things, A&S should disappear from the Astronomy Ireland umbrella. The link between the two is basically sucking the business dry. There is no point in selling people their first telescope and then alienating them. People get wise, get pi$$ed off at the political BS and when they want to upgrade to some serious gear, they source it elsewhere. So from a business stand point, A&S are not on the ball at all.

Most people who are very serious about astronomy do not deal with A&S, fact!

And unless things change in a big way, I'd have to agree with most of the people above, everyone interested in astronomy should go and find a real club. Visit the IFAS website and support your local club, support the hobby.

+1

Well said!

lithiumoxide · 07-07-2009 9:47pm

Hadouken!! wrote: »

It boils down to one persons stubbornness and lack of ability to see the bigger picture... But I just can't see it happening. Certain people need to take their heads out of their black holes and join the real world!!

Dead right! It's unfortunate that this and old issues are still sticking. This is too bad considering AI is MUCH more than just one person. Consider the staff and the hundreds of volunteers. They're not in it to get slated and get caught in crossfire; they're in it to get some proper amateur astronomy going, regardless of other issues!

On the A&S note, I can def see much more of a separation, and that gap is growing. It's a good thing to see that people who just wanna get into astronomy aren't continuously hassled about scopes, and people who just want scopes aren't hassled about a club.

There is still work to be done, but it's getting there!

Oh and about the Life of Galileo, AI are simply processing bookings (on request of Dublin Lyric), so don't worry about getting the spiel about telescopes!

Hadouken!! · 08-07-2009 9:32am

lithiumoxide wrote: »

Dead right! It's unfortunate that this and old issues are still sticking. This is too bad considering AI is MUCH more than just one person. Consider the staff and the hundreds of volunteers. They're not in it to get slated and get caught in crossfire; they're in it to get some proper amateur astronomy going, regardless of other issues!

Very well said Lithium! I have spoken to loads of AI volunteers/members in the past and not 1 has ever said he/she is totally happy with the "club" status. Why the hell should people pay good money for a membership and then have to go find another real club to feel fulfilled!? Madness!! The staff, members and volunteers have to have more say in the way the club is run. One person making 100% of discisions is not a club... it's a dictatorship. I would LOVE to see AI start up a proper committee where the chairman and sub-committee are voted in by members. I'd personally be happy to part with a membership fee then and so would a lot of others!!

Seanie M · 09-07-2009 4:59pm

mrmurroe wrote: »

I do think that IFAS and local Astronomy clubs could do a better job at promoting themselves both locally and nationally. Seems to be a lot of people moaning about a certain individual using his unique position to exploit Joe Public but nobody is offering an alternative.

The other clubs rely on freetime of its members with NO commercial gain to be had to promote and expand. A sad fact of life when the 'real' day jobs get in the way to be able to do what Moore does as his 'real' job.

Hadouken!! wrote: »

AI need to do themselves a favour and distance themselves from A&S as far as possible.

Neither can, they are one and the same.

Hadouken!! wrote: »

If people viewed AI as a club instead of a marketing machine for a shop, membership numbers would soar and astronomy as a hobby in Ireland would reap the rewards.

AI CAN'T be viewed as a club, it is a money-making enterprise - enterprise being the key word.

Hadouken!! wrote: »

Every other club is a part of IFAS, so why the hell can't AI be? It boils down to one persons stubbornness and lack of ability to see the bigger picture.

As far as is known, every other astronomy club that exists is a part of IFAS, but there is no obligation of any astronomy club or society to be a part of IFAS, so there could be more than those who are IFAS members. It is a democratic choice to take part, and it does have its benefits for all clubs and societies concerned. The reason why A&S is not a member club is due to the fact that it is not a club, nor a democratically elected entity i.e. it has one person, a DIRECTOR, who governs all its issues.

Hadouken!! wrote: »

And unless things change in a big way, I'd have to agree with most of the people above, everyone interested in astronomy should go and find a real club. Visit the IFAS website and support your local club, support the hobby.

Unbiased, no vested interests, and the best advice so far.

Seanie.

Wella · 11-07-2009 1:11pm

I just stumbled across this thread today, and I've read it with great interest.
I had absolutely no idea, just how many alternative clubs there are in astronomy.
I stopped paying subscription fees in 2004. It was about that time that I realised ALL of the info in the mag was available online, constantly updated for free.
It really annoyed me, especially when this was an organization that was supposedly devoted to furthering knowledge and interest in Astronomy, but were holding back an anything that didn't make money.:rolleyes:
I also bought a 8.75" Dobsonian at a huge cost.
Anyway, I've just visited irishastronomy.org for the first time today thanks to the link earlier in this forum. I'm blown away by the many clubs countrywide that I've never heard of before, and that's because AI never ever mentioned them.
I'm annoyed by all of this.
Honesty and integrity have been sacrificed by AI on an alter of money and ego.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll finish off exploring irishastronomy.org.....

Can Astronomy Ireland really be considered an 'Astronomy club' anymore?

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