FF Voters - Please apologise here.....

Mark200 · 18-10-2008 3:38pm

Denis Irwin wrote: »

This.

I don't know how anbody could think FG would have done any better as we are in a recession which was caused by the global stock markets going into meltdown because of the banking crisis in the US (Although some here would have you believe that the only reason we are in a recession is solely because of FF :rolleyes: )

(albeit it was a truly idiotic decison about the Medical Cards).

I completely agree. It's not Fianna Fail's fault we're in a recession. It's not Labour's fault that the UK is in recession. However I have to say I am extremely disappointed with a few decisions they have made that they know is one of the most important budgets in years. And yet they thought it was acceptable to make them.

I'm more pissed off with the Green Party than anything but Fianna Fail screwed up with the medical cards.

Raiser · 18-10-2008 4:08pm

Denis Irwin wrote: »

This.

I don't know how anbody could think FG would have done any better as we are in a recession which was caused by the global stock markets going into meltdown because of the banking crisis in the US (Although some here would have you believe that the only reason we are in a recession is solely because of FF :rolleyes: )

(albeit it was a truly idiotic decison about the Medical Cards).

Don't oversimplify this to your own short-sighted ends.

This isn't about the Dow, NASDAQ or the price of crude.

This isn't about sub-prime shenanigans in the US or investor confidence in Tokyo.

This is about issues happening outside your front door.

1. Third World Schools + 2. Archaic Transport + 3. Abysmal Healthcare + 4. Rampant Crime

Its also about the fact that after decades of economic prosperity and FF swaggering around congratulating each other we don't seem to have a pot to píss in.

A 6 year old on a school trip would have budgeted better than this, they might have been tempted to spend it all in the first hour or two, but would have stopped themselves, 'cause that would just be stupid. Why in the name of fcuk can we not afford anything in this Country???? [?]

1. 35 kids in a windy prefab, breathing asbestos, dodging the falling ceiling and fending off the rats [if the rats could stick it] - other Countries use prefabs on building sites for a month or two to store tools FFS.

2. No transport infrastructure, roads between major cities that practically have the grass strip in the centre, any decent road was paid for by the tax-payer plus some nouveaux riche yob businessman - so that they can toll us for the next 99 years to the value of 100 times the cost of the road in the first place.

3. Get up every morning. Pay your tax. Do this until your retire. Have your medical card snatched in a cynical, greedy, idiot-style mugging. Get sick. Go to your local Hospital. Discover its been closed in favour of a centre of excellence 90K away. You only make it to the corridor anyhow. Lie on your trolley. Get MRSA. Get sicker. Stay on your trolley. Watch any funds not already paid directly to the HSE idiot club evaporate. Lie or your trolley. Repeat.

4. Shootings in the streets, estates, sitting rooms, break-ins, muggings, an air of the wild-wild west pervades. We have 93 Gardaí and they're all out pointing speed detectors at the people who pay their wages while some cnut is in your house robbing your TV and making himself a sandwich from your fridge.

The only pro Fianna Fail arguments put forward here have been desperate, cringe inducing and sheer bollócks - try this on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

thelordofcheese · 18-10-2008 4:11pm

Raiser wrote: »

Don't oversimplify this to your own short-sighted ends.

This isn't about the Dow, NASDAQ or the price of crude.

This isn't about sub-prime shenanigans in the US or investor confidence in Tokyo.

This is about issues happening outside your front door.

Third World Schools + Archaic Transport + Abysmal Healthcare + Rampant Crime

Its also about the fact that after decades of economic prosperity and FF swaggering around congratulating each other we don't seem to have a pot to píss in.

A 6 year old on a school trip would have budgeted better than this, they might have been tempted to spend it all in the first hour or two, but would have stopped themselves, 'cause that would just be stupid. Why in the name of fcuk can we not afford anything in this Country?

35 kids in a windy prefab, breathing asbestos, dodging the falling ceiling and fending off the rats [if the rats could stick it] - other Countries use prefabs on building sites for a month or two to store tools FFS.

No transport infrastructure, roads between major cities that practically have the grass strip in the centre, any decent road was paid for by the tax-payer plus some nouveaux riche yob businessman - so that they can toll us for the next 99 years to the value of 100 times the cost of the road in the first place.

Get up every morning. Pay your tax. Do this until your retire. Have your medical card snatched in a cynical, greedy, idiot-style mugging. Get sick. Go to your local Hospital. Discover its been closed in favour of a centre of excellence 90K away. You only make it to the corridor anyhow. Lie on your trolley. Get MRSA. Get sicker. Stay on your trolley. Watch any funds not already paid directly to the HSE idiot club evaporate. Lie or your trolley. Repeat.

Shootings in the streets, estates, sitting rooms, break-ins, muggings, an air of the wild-wild west pervades. We have 93 Gardaí and they're all out pointing speed detectors at the people who pay their wages while some cnut is in your house robbing your TV and making himself a sandwich from your fridge.

The only arguments put forward here have been desperate, cringe inducing and sheer bollócks - try this on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

the irony is lost on you, isn't it.

Jonathan · 18-10-2008 4:11pm

Raiser wrote: »

Third World Schools + Archaic Transport + Abysmal Healthcare + Rampant Crime

lol

SimpleSam06 · 18-10-2008 4:27pm

In addition to the good points Raiser has made, I'll give you a couple more sour lemons to suck on:

The rampant growth of the public sector in both numbers and premiums: After promising to reduce public sector numbers in 2002 by 5000, these idiots went ahead and increased the numbers by 35,000, and gave them pay rises at three times the rate of the private sector.

Where did all the money go from the boom? Straight into the endless, swollen gullets of the public sector unions. Did we see any improvement in services? No? So all that cash was pissed away while these flutes were sucking down the guinness in the tent at the Galway races?

And lest anyone forget, the leader of these clowns tried to hide a thirty grand pay rise by threatening to knock half the drivers off the road, in what he no doubt felt was a cunning bit of politicking. Sure the peasants will never spot it what? No doubt this is the height of machiavellian scheming in whatever hole he crawled out of, but you need to get up a bit earlier in the morning to pull off a stunt like that. I've no doubt this brouhaha over the medical cards is more of the same.

Theres a name for the actions of these men, and that name is treason.

KnifeWRENCH · 18-10-2008 4:29pm

Raiser wrote: »

1. Third World Schools + 2. Archaic Transport + 3. Abysmal Healthcare + 4. Rampant Crime

Its also about the fact that after decades of economic prosperity and FF swaggering around congratulating each other we don't seem to have a pot to píss in.

A 6 year old on a school trip would have budgeted better than this, they might have been tempted to spend it all in the first hour or two, but would have stopped themselves, 'cause that would just be stupid. Why in the name of fcuk can we not afford anything in this Country???? [?]

1. 35 kids in a windy prefab, breathing asbestos, dodging the falling ceiling and fending off the rats [if the rats could stick it] - other Countries use prefabs on building sites for a month or two to store tools FFS.

2. No transport infrastructure, roads between major cities that practically have the grass strip in the centre, any decent road was paid for by the tax-payer plus some nouveaux riche yob businessman - so that they can toll us for the next 99 years to the value of 100 times the cost of the road in the first place.

3. Get up every morning. Pay your tax. Do this until your retire. Have your medical card snatched in a cynical, greedy, idiot-style mugging. Get sick. Go to your local Hospital. Discover its been closed in favour of a centre of excellence 90K away. You only make it to the corridor anyhow. Lie on your trolley. Get MRSA. Get sicker. Stay on your trolley. Watch any funds not already paid directly to the HSE idiot club evaporate. Lie or your trolley. Repeat.

4. Shootings in the streets, estates, sitting rooms, break-ins, muggings, an air of the wild-wild west pervades. We have 93 Gardaí and they're all out pointing speed detectors at the people who pay their wages while some cnut is in your house robbing your TV and making himself a sandwich from your fridge.

The only pro Fianna Fail arguments put forward here have been desperate, cringe inducing and sheer bollócks - try this on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Wow. Just wow.
If that post was a piss take, it wasn't particularly funny.
If you were being serious......all I can say is EPIC FAIL.

SimpleSam06 · 18-10-2008 4:35pm

square_igloo wrote: »

If you were being serious......all I can say is EPIC FAIL.

Well thought out, considered and reasoned comment there, backed up by logical arguments and factual evidence. Its that sort of thinking that put us where we are today, tbh. :rolleyes:

KhanTheMan · 18-10-2008 4:35pm

Voted Green, Sorry. Wont do it again.

Wertz · 18-10-2008 4:44pm

jmccrohan wrote: »

lol

I'm glad someone sees the funny side of it :rolleyes:

No-one has said that FF are to blame for the worldwide financial catastrophe ...what they are to blame for is not having some foresight in realising that our particularly unique global position was NOT safe and insulated from any possible downturn...these pricks thought the gravy train was going to keep on rolling so they spent incoming revenue at the time imprudently.
They were quick enough to take credit for the upturn in our economy, which was equally as much to do with global economic forces beyond their control, as much as it is in the current downturn, and quick enough to start wasting the extra inflow of money from all the new houses and new cars, but try and blame them for mismanagement of funds and you get this bullsh*t response of "Oh well world economic crises are beyond our control", the crises being the thing that just happened to underline and make apparent the huge money pit our politicians flushed the cash down.
What are we left with for ~2 decades of boom?
Hospitals that don't function as they should, top heavy with management and admin and lacking in frontline staff, resources and facilities (The Lourdes in Drogheda the other morning is a prime example...HSE wanting to make it a "centre of excellence" and severely curtailing services in other surrounding regional hospitals, preferring to have patients travel from a wide hinterland to an overcrowded, outdated building...which then has to close it's doors because it can't cope either staff wise or infrastructurally leaving patients out on a limb and endangering lives...this is just the pinnacle of 10 years of mismanagement in the NE region WRT to healthcare.
What else are we left with?
Tens of thousands of people facing another 25+ years of paying off high mortgages repayments for not very special houses and appartments, who have huge commutes, sometimes on roads that aren't fit for tractors...the stamp duty from same, having been long spent. A select few got very rich off the backs of those people.
The above has left some of our banks in a precarious situation and has thus left the taxpayer in that same situation. The same taxpayer that has those big debts of their own to clear and is facing higher taxation to make upo the shortfall that a blind man could have seen coming.
So great, the public and civil service got some nice new state of the art buildings, the country got some swanky new hotels and some roads (a lot of which was either funded by the EU or by private companies that now get to reap the rewartd of high tolls for the foreseeable future)...but at the bottom of all that, nothing has reallly changed in the country. We have lots of nice shiny things, but the basics are in some cases worse than they were 20 years back.

Hilarious.

thelordofcheese · 18-10-2008 4:44pm

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Well thought out, considered and reasoned comment there, backed up by logical arguments and factual evidence. Its that sort of thinking that put us where we are today, tbh.

Agreed, it really lacked an accusation of treason. Ohh and some poor attempts at protraying eveyone involved in the public sector as corpulant parasites. Really needed some of that. And righteous indignation! That'd have really helped his cause.

Y'know, all the average prattle that makes all these AH posts special

KnifeWRENCH · 18-10-2008 4:45pm

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Well thought out, considered and reasoned comment there, backed up by logical arguments and factual evidence. Its that sort of thinking that put us where we are today, tbh. :rolleyes:

"1. Third World Schools + 2. Archaic Transport + 3. Abysmal Healthcare + 4. Rampant Crime"

If I responded to that pile of over-exaggerated bull**** with a serious, well considered comment with factual evidence, it would imply that I actually considered Raiser's post to be somewhat relevant or that he actually had a point other than "rabble, rabble, rabble...."

No, I think EPIC FAIL will suffice.

SimpleSam06 · 18-10-2008 4:53pm

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Agreed, it really lacked an accusation of treason. Ohh and some poor attempts at protraying eveyone involved in the public sector as corpulant parasites. Really needed some of that. And righteous indignation! That'd have really helped his cause.

Y'know, all the average prattle that makes all these AH posts special

Yawn. All I'm doing is recounting the facts, and in my opinion the actions taken by those in power over the last decade or so warrant a row of gibbets. Your opinion as to what should be done with them might be different, but there can be no doubt that punitive action is required.

Maybe you enjoy paying ever increasing taxes to support these buffoons, but those of us who aren't masochists have a thing or two to say about it.

Still good job with the sarcasm there. Yes indeed.

square_igloo wrote: »

No, I think EPIC FAIL will suffice.

You wouldn't be far wrong. Not in the way you might think, though.

Wertz · 18-10-2008 5:22pm

I find it pretty funny that those who are saying there's nothing wrong are for the most part the young and students....whilst older people and those who work and pay taxes and were around before the boom times to see what it was like then, decry the wastage and mismanagement over those times.
For all the people who grew up in the tiger era, I've some news for you...nothing really changed, we just all got ourselves in more debt for nice things and clapped ourselves on the back...we papered over the cracks and then built a nice extension with our re-mortgage...but it's still the same sh*tty house it was 20 years back packed with lots of lovely furniture and plush carpets...the foundations were never shored up as they should have been...now that subsidence and collapse is seen as a possibility, there's no more money in the re-mortgage and the house has to stand on the back of it's tiring occupants.
These politicians were paid to look after our interests as a nation, they saw no problem with paying people lots of money to tell them how best to do this...paying consultants to tell you how to do your job is one thing, but when not one of them can turn around and envisage a what-if/worst case scenario along the lines of what has happened, you can only see that advice as having been an extreme waste of money.
Epic fail indeed...

Dirk Gently · 18-10-2008 5:35pm

I've never voted for either FF or FG, not even a last preference token gesture. I did give a green a 3rd or 4th preference vote though so for that I apologise. Wont ever happen again.

ninty9er · 18-10-2008 6:48pm

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Well thought out, considered and reasoned comment there, backed up by logical arguments and factual evidence. Its that sort of thinking that put us where we are today, tbh. :rolleyes:

What was logical in that post?

How many children are thought in rat infested pre-fabs?? There are pre-fabs used on a temporary basis, There is a school near me that has 2 well maintained, permanent pre-fabs, that weren't neglected in some effort to show an attitude of entitlement to bricks and morter, that does the same job at no discernable advantage.

I don't know where Raiser lives, but I've done a fair bit of travelling this year and the only places I found with grass growing in the middle were fields, gardens and narrow roads that aren't even on a map, mainly around Cork. I drove the M7/N7 yesterday and today, it's far from a third world standard.

How many people lie on trolleys in hospitals?? 1 is too many but it's not pervasive....and I know it's not pervasive in MWRH, I did have to lie on a trolley there, but had a bed within 5 hours once all the day's discharges were processed.

How many people have been shot at recently? I know I haven't!

Irish people need to start paying proper taxes if they want to earn their self-righteous sense of automatic entitlement.

The automatic over 70s medical card, as well as automatic exchequer funded third level fees are just 2 of many PRIVELAGES that Irish people have enjoyed that always were and continue to be UNSUSTAINABLE. These are long held views of mine and nothing to do with current developments. Anyone who knows me will back that up, including my grandparents and college friends.

Biggins · 18-10-2008 7:09pm

ninty9er wrote: »

What was logical in that post?

How many children are thought in rat infested pre-fabs?? There are pre-fabs used on a temporary basis, There is a school near me that has 2 well maintained, permanent pre-fabs, that weren't neglected in some effort to show an attitude of entitlement to bricks and morter, that does the same job at no discernable advantage.

I don't know where Raiser lives, but I've done a fair bit of travelling this year and the only places I found with grass growing in the middle were fields, gardens and narrow roads that aren't even on a map, mainly around Cork. I drove the M7/N7 yesterday and today, it's far from a third world standard.

How many people lie on trolleys in hospitals?? 1 is too many but it's not pervasive....and I know it's not pervasive in MWRH, I did have to lie on a trolley there, but had a bed within 5 hours once all the day's discharges were processed.

How many people have been shot at recently? I know I haven't!

Irish people need to start paying proper taxes if they want to earn their self-righteous sense of automatic entitlement.

The automatic over 70s medical card, as well as automatic exchequer funded third level fees are just 2 of many PRIVELAGES that Irish people have enjoyed that always were and continue to be UNSUSTAINABLE. These are long held views of mine and nothing to do with current developments. Anyone who knows me will back that up, including my grandparents and college friends.

I LIVE in Drogheda (home of the hospital mentioned) and the hospital HAD to refuse to take any more casualties because of 18 people on stretchers, lying about in cold corridors. This has become the norm' now at our hospital DAILY - which by the way is supposed to be a training hospital too (what are we training them for - war conditions?).

There are many prefabs here in my town that were supposed to be "temps" - that was 15+ years ago ...they are still still being used, cold, damp and falling to pieces. The students have to wear their coats all the time in the winter to keep warm!

Lucky for you that you have it handy wherever you live - but just because you do so, that don't mean the same conditions applies broadly elsewhere.
There are more and more daily horror stories of run down conditions filling our papers across our nation, every day.
Did our government do anything about the situations when the times were good? NO!
..and now they come to us all to pay up again to correct their yet again mistakes!

Its disgusting, we are sheep to be herded like cattle in ever moving circles and lied to.
Well some of us have had enough!

Regulator79 · 18-10-2008 7:19pm

Fact: Ireland's recession is a direct result of the collapse of an asset bubble in the property market that was created and maintained by the ruling party FF. The global credit crunch adds salt to the wounds but is not the root cause. Shocking mismanagement of the economy by successive FF govts have led us to where we are now.

Now carry on. And if anyone disagrees with this blatantly obvious fact then you are an idiot and will probably continue voting for the corrupt gombeen men FF.

ninty9er · 18-10-2008 7:19pm

Biggins wrote: »

I LIVE in Drogheda (home of the hospital mentioned) and the hospital HAD to refuse to take any more casualties because of 18 people on stretchers, lying about in cold corridors. This has become the norm' now at our hospital DAILY - which by the way is supposed to be a training hospital too (what are we training them for - war conditions?).

There are many prefabs here in my town that were supposed to be "temps" - that was 15+ years ago ...they are still still being used, cold, damp and falling to pieces. The students have to wear their coats all the time in the winter to keep warm!

Lucky for you that you have it handy wherever you live - but just because you do so, that don't mean the same conditions applies broadly elsewhere.
There are more and more daily horror stories of run down conditions filling our papers across our nation, every day.
Did our government do anything about the situations when the times were good? NO!
..and now they come to us all to pay up again to correct their yet again mistakes!

Its disgusting, we are sheep to be herded like cattle in ever moving circles and lied to.
Well some of us have had enough!

I can appreciate that logic, but because that applies where YOU live, doesn't mean it's the norm. There is no doubt more schools are needed, but for the population explosion resulting from immigration, it was impossible to predict the pressure that would be put on our infrastructure.

It's not like the government sits back and does nothing. It is building schools and working to improve conditions in hospitals. But having said that, many of our hospitals are inefficiently located and a figure of 20-25 hospitals would be more realistic than stretching the resources we have over the 43 we do have.

I can honesltly say that it would be a disgrace IMO if the prefabs in your town were the SAME ones put there in 1985, but a lot of the pre-fabs out there these days are probably a better use of resources than building new schools, especially specific purpose calssrooms that can be pre-wired adn put up in a matter of days.

ninty9er · 18-10-2008 7:22pm

Regulator79 wrote: »

Now carry on. And if anyone disagrees with this blatantly obvious fact then you are an idiot and will probably continue voting for the corrupt gombeen men FF.

Honestly there is no incentive for Fianna Fáilers like me to maintain an integrity in what we do with attitudes like that. If we're going to be accused regardless, why not do what we're being accused of.

People are idiots:rolleyes:

Biggins · 18-10-2008 7:26pm

ninty9er: We could dispute who's more is the norn' but that argument could go on for ever.
Its is a fact however that conditions are worsening moreso then they are getting better at present. This growing widening deficit has being going on for some time now and only recently our over paid TD's trying to stem and hold back the oncoming tidal flood of growing bad conditions - election time must be nearing!

Biggins · 18-10-2008 7:29pm

ninty9er wrote: »

Honestly there is no incentive for Fianna Fáilers like me to maintain an integrity in what we do with attitudes like that. If we're going to be accused regardless, why not do what we're being accused of.

People are idiots:rolleyes:

According now to Fianna Fáilers, they also dumb sheep and treated as such too!
Thanks but NO THANKS!
See you at the next election.

Dyr · 18-10-2008 7:57pm

Ya gotta laugh at people who are just now giving out about fianna failure, Like its somehow news that they're dodgy chancers. Charlie Haughey, Albert Reynolds, Bertie Ahern..all had to booted out by their own when they clung onto to the reins after they were shown to be bent even by their own parties standards.

And Yee thought these chancers were acting in your best interests? More fool you.

thelordofcheese · 18-10-2008 8:07pm

Biggins wrote: »

Its disgusting, we are sheep to be herded like cattle in ever moving circles and lied to.
Well some of us have had enough!

I'm confused, if i vote for FF again should i bleat or moo? Or both?

earlyevening · 18-10-2008 8:19pm

Regulator79 wrote: »

Fact: Ireland's recession is a direct result of the collapse of an asset bubble in the property market that was created and maintained by the ruling party FF. The global credit crunch adds salt to the wounds but is not the root cause. Shocking mismanagement of the economy by successive FF govts have led us to where we are now.

Now carry on. And if anyone disagrees with this blatantly obvious fact then you are an idiot and will probably continue voting for the corrupt gombeen men FF.

I'd say the INTERNATIONAL property bubble was created by historically low interest rates and now the property bubbles in USA, UK, ROI etc are bursting because of rising rates, spillover from the sub prime crisis and a general realisation that the emperor has no clothes. Regular Irish people "invested" in this bubble. They have to take some responsibility too and stop claiming they were in someway coerced by the state.

Personally I would have supported the introduction of a property tax years ago, rather than high stamp duty but this would have created an even greater excitement on the Joe Duffy Show.

Sometimes I think it would be more socially acceptable to say I was a paedophile than a potential FF voter. (I am not a paedophile)

taidghbaby · 18-10-2008 8:22pm

thelordofcheese wrote: »

I'm confused, if i vote for FF again should i bleat or moo? Or both?

you should oink

thelordofcheese · 18-10-2008 8:25pm

taidghbaby wrote: »

you should oink

I was leaning towards clucking myself...

Biggins · 18-10-2008 8:33pm

I think with Finna Fail still in charge ye should all just say your prayers!
(that they don't continue to make things worse!)
Now thats a sound the rest of us are making!

rebeve · 18-10-2008 9:29pm

I voted for them in 1977 and I still have n`t forgiven myself . They stand for nothing and everything at the same time . Charlies big poster for 82 election .
Health cuts hurt the old the sick and the handicapped .He wins the election and closes 3,000 hospital beds , and the health service has never recovered .
What a shower

KnifeWRENCH · 18-10-2008 9:47pm

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

You wouldn't be far wrong. Not in the way you might think, though.

Very funny.

Look, I'm not saying Fianna Fail are perfect. It just bugs me when people churn out rabble like "education system is a disgrace, health system is a disgrace, our transport system's a disgrace, omg there's crime like EVERYWHERE" when we have such a high quality of life, a very high ranking education system and a relatively low crime rate. Health service - yes, it could be better. But I would not go as far as to call it "abysmal" and it is certainly not "3rd World".

Oh and just for the record I'm not a die-hard FF'er or anything, they did make some big mistakes but I just don't think they deserve all of the flak that's being thrown at them.

JimmyCrackCorn! · 18-10-2008 11:10pm

square_igloo wrote: »

I just don't think they deserve all of the flak that's being thrown at them.

Your either delusional or you find gross incompetence and machiavellian behaviour an important traits for politics.

At least in england when you cock up your expected to do the decent thing and resign.

Run_to_da_hills · 18-10-2008 11:14pm

JimmyCrackCorn! wrote: »

At least in england when you cock up your expected to do the decent thing and resign.

Not in Ireland, if you cock up here you get premoted

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-10-2008 11:19pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Not in Ireland, if you cock up here you get premoted

Then, presuambly, you get moted...?

*runs*

Jonathan · 19-10-2008 1:34am

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Then, presuambly, you get moted...?

Heh heh

SimpleSam06 · 19-10-2008 8:09am

ninty9er wrote: »

in some effort to show an attitude of entitlement to bricks and morter

Entitlement to bricks and mortar. Lets just savour that comment for a moment.

ninty9er wrote: »

How many people have been shot at recently? I know I haven't!

Congratulations. I'll be sure to put a gold star on your report.

ninty9er wrote: »

Irish people need to start paying proper taxes if they want to earn their self-righteous sense of automatic entitlement.

We'll start paying proper taxes when the fuckwits in charge show they know how to spend them properly.

ninty9er wrote: »

automatic exchequer funded third level fees are just 2 of many PRIVELAGES

I find the ironing in your sig delicious:
"Bringing a political voice to Ireland's youth since 1975"
Tighten your belt elsewhere, I have no forelock to tug.

square_igloo wrote: »

Oh and just for the record I'm not a die-hard FF'er or anything, they did make some big mistakes but I just don't think they deserve all of the flak that's being thrown at them.

Did you just fail to read what I wrote earlier about the public sector? You do realise thats runined us, all by itself, for decades to come? A strong message needs to be sent to these idiots, and if that means stretching a few necks, then so be it.

Regulator79 · 19-10-2008 8:52pm

earlyevening wrote: »

I'd say the INTERNATIONAL property bubble was created by historically low interest rates and now the property bubbles in USA, UK, ROI etc are bursting because of rising rates, spillover from the sub prime crisis and a general realisation that the emperor has no clothes. Regular Irish people "invested" in this bubble. They have to take some responsibility too and stop claiming they were in someway coerced by the state.

Personally I would have supported the introduction of a property tax years ago, rather than high stamp duty but this would have created an even greater excitement on the Joe Duffy Show.

Sometimes I think it would be more socially acceptable to say I was a paedophile than a potential FF voter. (I am not a paedophile)

The Irish economies exposure to the property bubble is exceptional by any standard. Govt was warned about this but did nothing. In fact, they built an entire taxation system conditional on stamp duty receipts. They made a major mistake and FF close relationship with builders etc makes one very suspicious.

BTW, I am not an FF or a FG voter. I vote Labour. I think more people in this country should too. Too often here people automatically think that FG are the only option.

jaffa20 · 19-10-2008 9:05pm

Hellrazer wrote: »

I dont fancy a 30km cycle from Maynooth to Dublin either.Fupping hippies ruining everything!!!!!!

Ever heard of the bus or the train

It might save you some money with the price increases for motorists. I'm glad ff hit down on motorists who couldn't be arsed taking the bus, but i feel sorry for those who have no public transport available.

Run_to_da_hills · 19-10-2008 9:11pm

Regulator79 wrote: »

The Irish economies exposure to the property bubble is exceptional by any standard. Govt was warned about this but did nothing. In fact, they built an entire taxation system conditional on stamp duty receipts. They made a major mistake and FF close relationship with builders etc makes one very suspicious.

BTW, I am not an FF or a FG voter. I vote Labour. I think more people in this country should too. Too often here people automatically think that FG are the only option.

I have a lot of respect for Eamonn Gilmore and voted for him in at the last election, he stood firm on this whole issue since day one. I enjoyed seing him go for Lenahin juggler on the day after the budget.

PrivateEye · 19-10-2008 9:19pm

Sure, didn't Brian Lenihan Sr. have to avail of Public healthcare when he needed to see the doc?

:rolleyes:

I'll say this much in favour of the Fianna Failure machine....
...at least its not Fine Gael.

TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber no doubt,students and the O.A.Ps out protesting on Wednesday and I can see chaos ahead with regards the deal between employers and employees.

portomar · 19-10-2008 9:33pm

Originally Posted by Hellrazer
I dont fancy a 30km cycle from Maynooth to Dublin either.Fupping hippies ruining everything!!!!!!

try living in the same county as you work in. wrecks my head, people buying gaphs and just expecting good public transport to arrive at their door, or being horrifieed that the greens want to encourage cycling. if the greens were in power, for the last 15 years we might have avoided the god awful sprawl you and others call home.

i have always disliked and mistrusted FF, but it hit home to me when i read an article in i think the IBEC trade mag bout 3 years ago, it pointed out that FF was using ALL the money from stamp duty receipts to hire more public servants, thereby when the housing boom stopped, theyd have all these public servants who needed to be paid by other taxes. 3 years later, look whats happened. idiots.

OPENROAD · 19-10-2008 9:34pm

jaffa20 wrote: »

I'm glad ff hit down on motorists

You don't mind paying extra for your pint of milk etc....?

ChewChew · 19-10-2008 9:57pm

I'm not sorry. I have nothing to lose. . only to gain. . . come on the sale rails!

coco85 · 19-10-2008 10:49pm

For anyone who is interested on the impact of the new income levy take a look at the following;

http://www.rte.ie/money/budget2009/accountants/profiles.html

This makes it clear that it is the people with higher incomes who will be impacted by this levy..

It is not just Ireland that is in financial crisis it is the world and i don't think the current government can be blamed. Regardless of who we voted for in the last election whatever government is in power now would be blamed.

Of course the majority of our population were happy with FF before the downturn (otherwise we would not have voted them in the last election) but now that the going has gotten tough.... we turn on the government....

portomar · 19-10-2008 10:56pm

coco85 wrote: »

For anyone who is interested on the impact of the new income levy take a look at the following;

http://www.rte.ie/money/budget2009/accountants/profiles.html

This makes it clear that it is the people with higher incomes who will be impacted by this levy..

It is not just Ireland that is in financial crisis it is the world and i don't think the current government can be blamed. Regardless of who we voted for in the last election whatever government is in power now would be blamed.

Of course the majority of our population were happy with FF before the downturn (otherwise we would not have voted them in the last election) but now that the going has gotten tough.... we turn on the government....

did you even read my post?? yes the world is in financial crisis, most dont have anywhere near the level of hole in revenue we do. they have made tough going nigh impossible to weather thanks to their actions of past 10-15 years

Marcus.Aurelius · 19-10-2008 11:52pm

coco85 wrote: »

Of course the majority of our population were happy with FF before the downturn (otherwise we would not have voted them in the last election) but now that the going has gotten tough.... we turn on the government....

That is usually what happens when a country which has experienced unprecedented levels of income is left with no reserves or decent infrastructure because their government wasted all the money on developer dig-outs and helping hands.

I suppose we must really be that stupid.

Considering the average IQ displayed by the pro-FFers here, I'm surprised they made it to the polls at all. :mad:

ninty9er · 20-10-2008 12:07am

Joker wrote: »

Considering the average IQ displayed by the pro-FFers here, I'm surprised they made it to the polls at all. :mad:

Is there an IQ test required to post here?? That was really uncalled for. Considering the drivel being propagated by the anti-FF element here, it would make you wonder if they are out for themselves or the nation as a whole. The former seems a lot more likely than the latter.

earlyevening · 20-10-2008 12:11am

Joker wrote: »

because their government wasted all the money on developer dig-outs and helping hands.

:

What are you raving about? Who should we be voting for, genius?

SimpleSam06 · 20-10-2008 12:28am

ninty9er wrote: »

Is there an IQ test required to post here?? That was really uncalled for. Considering the drivel being propagated by the anti-FF element here, it would make you wonder if they are out for themselves or the nation as a whole. The former seems a lot more likely than the latter.

earlyevening wrote: »

What are you raving about? Who should we be voting for, genius?

Lads, if I wanted vapid and contentless comments I'd be reading the letters section of womans way. So far I haven't seen one single reasonable defence of the objectionable actions taken by FF in power, in fact some of the posts made were barely legible (ironic given that they were in favour of reintroducing third level education fees), just a load of talking heads with nothing to say.

So try harder.

Try again.

Rossibaby · 20-10-2008 5:46am

I find it to be a bad state of affairs when supporters of FF,our government, when defending them and this budget,the best they can come up with is "well who else is there instead".This is no excuse for having a talentless government in place, one which continually make poor decision after poor decision.

This budget is a disgrace in my view.Certain points in particular annoy me:

The medical card fasco is well-documented so i don't need to go into detail but I think this was a shocking initiative to include!Im glad alot of FF supporters had the integrity to come out and say that this aspect of the budget is just out of order.

The other thing that annoys me is the 1% levy.This levy effects everyone even those who earn minimum wage.I have been on minimum wage myself and im sure alot on ehre have been at some stage or another.It is hard enough to survive on that amount of money already without further costs such as this levy.I think there should have been a minimum line before this levy effected families and the levy came into play.And why not an increased levy for the big boys as their salaries go up say 3% for over 130k 4% for 200k etc its not like this is even a major dent to these people compared to the dent it puts in someone barely making ends meet

It's true IMO that when times get tough it is the lower classes and middle classes that are targetted to clean up the mess of the oily suit wearers.

FF supporters, one should not base their support for a party with the rationale that "sure there is no-one else".What a pitiful argument.It just shows that the nature of a neo-classical economy is totally unsustainable, and that these gangster politicians exploit us and urge us to be 'patriotic' when they take pathetic paycuts that still leave them on salaries vastly greater than what most of their voters are on.most people get paid less a week than mary coughlan is shedding in her wee cut and the cut is not big by any means.How about the cabinet took a 60% paycut including this effect on their pensions and we will see how patriotic they are.

I will be voting independent as usual

Mark200 · 20-10-2008 11:20am

So who will everyone else be voting for?

I'm disappointed in the Budget....but I don't know who I'd want in Government. Enda Kenny is a boring idiot. The Greens should be embarrassed with what they did in this Budget. PDs are gone.

So that leaves....Labour, Sinn Fein and Independants? Anyone else?

LFCFan · 20-10-2008 11:29am

I don't think people get it when it comes to voting. Ok, so the alternative 'might' not be any better, but if we keep voting in the same party again and again, they will think they can do anything and get away with it. They get complacent. If they thought that what they did might actually affect how people vote, they might actually get up off their fat arses and actually do some work for a change. There are too many people in this country who vote for a party just because their family always have.

We need a government who won't bow down to corporate pressure. A government who cares more about the people who put them there, rather than what Johnny Big bucks think of him. This banking crisis may actually turn out to be a good thing in the long run. Banks and big business have had way too much pull, not only in Ireland but all over the world. All we need now is for the oil companies to get a kick up the ass. Of course that won't happen until there is a viable, cheap and unending alternative supply of energy.

FF Voters - Please apologise here.....

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