RTE1: Creedon's Cities - except Waterford!

Dunmoreroader · 05-07-2012 1:14pm #1

Here we go again. RTE 1 have a new series starting next Monday 9th night featuring "Ireland's cities" which is a four-parter; Cork, Limerick, Galway & Dublin, thus ommiting 1 of our 5 cities. And you know which one don't you.....:rolleyes: Yes, we've been here before haven't we?!
Of course it's an RTE Cork production which might explain it;
This link explains it; http://www.corkfilmcentre.com/newsletter/new-john-creedon-show-searching-for-personal-archi/

jimbojazz · 05-07-2012 2:15pm

And Irelands oldest city for that matter

calvin_zola · 05-07-2012 2:18pm

Wouldn't want that insufferable langer around here anyway

comeraghs · 05-07-2012 2:56pm

Does anybody have an e-mail address for rte, This complete disregard for Waterford really pisses me off!

membersonly · 05-07-2012 3:13pm

I couldn't get through to Joe Duffy today, will try again tomorrow.

Jason Todd · 05-07-2012 3:32pm

I've sent Ray D'Arcy an email highlighting it for his Fix-It Friday programme tomorrow morning, he's usually good for stuff like this. Hopefully he'll give it a mention and might even get on to someone from RTE about it. :mad:

tobey · 05-07-2012 3:40pm

why would he come here, waterford crstel is all we ever had and its gone, what would he talk about? recent shootings, robberies and shops closing down, oh and a new bridge no one uses,

fricatus · 05-07-2012 3:49pm

tobey wrote: »

why would he come here, waterford crstel is all we ever had and its gone, what would he talk about? recent shootings, robberies and shops closing down, oh and a new bridge no one uses,

:rolleyes:

That is all...

(I'm not usually given to posting a smiley as my only response to a post, but I think it's time I made an exception)

Jason Todd · 05-07-2012 3:50pm

tobey wrote: »

why would he come here, waterford crstel is all we ever had and its gone, what would he talk about? recent shootings, robberies and shops closing down, oh and a new bridge no one uses,

Im not sure what waterford crstel is :roll eyes: but how about the Granary, Waterford Crystal Visitors Centre, the Viking Triangle, the Blue Plaque Trail, Spraoi, the Harvest Festival, Bishop's Palace, nightlife, the arts (Forum, Theatre Royal) and the many great Restaurants and Pubs we have?

Or maybe he'd like to talk to the likes of you, a proud Waterfordian and get a real insight in to the place :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::p

comeraghs · 05-07-2012 4:00pm

just a little bit of what Waterford has to offer!

http://www.facebook.com/#!/discoverwaterfordcity

http://www.facebook.com/#!/waterforditsafeeling

http://www.facebook.com/#!/SpraoiWaterford

http://www.facebook.com/#!/redkettletheatreco

http://www.facebook.com/#!/garterlaneartscentre

http://www.facebook.com/#!/WaterfordTreasures

comeraghs · 05-07-2012 4:07pm

info@rte.ie for anyone who wants to join me in complaining!

Nypd · 05-07-2012 4:15pm

tobey wrote: »

why would he come here, waterford crstel is all we ever had and its gone, what would he talk about? recent shootings, robberies and shops closing down, oh and a new bridge no one uses,

Have you not visited the Waterford Crystal visitors centre ?

bradknowell · 05-07-2012 4:32pm

We dont need to be on telly for people to know how awesome we are. ......... :cool:

ex_infantry man · 05-07-2012 4:41pm

waterford famous for crystal,the humble blaa and your forgetting the rasher was also invented here by henry denny

merlante · 05-07-2012 5:51pm

tobey wrote: »

why would he come here, waterford crstel is all we ever had and its gone, what would he talk about? recent shootings, robberies and shops closing down, oh and a new bridge no one uses,

The damaged Waterford mentality in all its glory.

Black Suir · 05-07-2012 11:08pm

Might be something to do with the thinking of the most people in and around the city. When you hear many people from what is Waterford City they often talk about down town and the top of the town etc. Maybe those in RTE are listening to such people and are thinking to themselves, if the people in the area dont consider themselves to be living in a city why should we class the place as a city.

Professey Chin · 05-07-2012 11:10pm

Black Suir wrote: »

Might be something to do with the thinking of the most people in and around the city. When you hear many people from what is Waterford City they often talk about down town and the top of the town etc. Maybe those in RTE are listening to such people and are thinking to themselves, if the people in the area dont consider themselves to be living in a city why should we class the place as a city.

Everywhere refers to the city center as "town" when they live there.
Look at any dublin/cork/galway thread. Its usually questions like "anything happening in town?"

mike65 · 05-07-2012 11:25pm

"town" is a colloquialism, you know for a people who are supposed to be brilliant linguists the Irish sure can be a bit thick (or maybe just sensitive) about such terms.

merlante · 06-07-2012 10:40am

The real problem is when the national media refer to "4 of Ireland's largest cities", as if there were 20, 30 or 40 cities in Ireland, depending on your own personal opinion, then picking 4 on a "you have to draw the line somewhere" line of thinking makes sense. If people realised there were only 5 cities in the country, then they would see how unusual it is to pick 4 and not the full 5. But unfortunately, we live in a country where urban geography is obviously not taught in schools -- even though we can all name the GAA counties -- where people in Dublin aren't interested in urban areas outside of Dublin and where people outside of Dublin are eager to exploit the ignorance that is out there by promoting their own ballygobackwards as a major urban centre. Even on this forum, time and time and time again, we have people arguing about what is and is not a city, or what constitutes a city, when the fact is that an Irish city is a city council administration defined in law, which happens to also be the form of council that administers the 5 largest urban areas in the country. Nothing to do with cathedrals, nothing to do with having a go at Kilkenny, or anything else.

Sadly, it seems to suit pretty much every parochial interest in the country to maintain this state of ignorance, except of course for Waterford, and to some extent Limerick. Perception can unfortunately affect reality, as Limerick and Waterford are passed over for FDI:
Irish Times: 80% of jobs in new foreign firms go to just three cities
and a related letter to the Irish Times from a Waterfordian:
Cities without a voice.

calvin_zola · 06-07-2012 12:10pm

I have no doubt that if RTE where to have gone forward and added a 5th city to the agenda of this show they would have had Kilkenny or Sligo ahead of us.

Saying that we do get a bit of exposure on Nationwide still.

comeraghs · 06-07-2012 2:08pm

The Local Govt act 2001 says that there are 5 cities in Ireland.

Kilkenny is not a city but under the 2001 act it is allowed to use the term city to describe itself as a city because of historical reasons.

Waterford people need to FIGHT harder for the city.

abouttobebanned · 06-07-2012 2:15pm

Or maybe they need to fight more for things that actually matter.

mikemac1 · 06-07-2012 2:19pm

Waterford got recognition from the Governer of Montana a few months ago, was over for a visit
Brian Schweitzer who seems to be a rising star, who knows, might be President one day

Something to do with favourite son Thomas Francis Meagher who was the second governer of Montana

Might be offtopic but Montana is doing well, could be some opportunity for Waterford to twin with them somehow?
Or some link for WIT?

I'm talking jobs and investment, a European base for US companies

I'm not talking junkets for councillors to fly there

Baby4 · 06-07-2012 2:27pm

This post has been deleted.

Professey Chin · 06-07-2012 2:39pm

Baby4 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yes

merlante · 06-07-2012 4:53pm

For those who say people shouldn't be getting upset about city status, etc., the response from RTE provides yet another strong counter-argument, in my opinion. If you are under the impression that there are 6 cities, it is more acceptable to pick the largest 4, than if you thought there were 5 cities, when leaving one out would look strange.

The inclusion of Kilkenny for consideration once again muddies the waters in more ways than one, since not only does it add another 'city' into the mix, but it implicitly brings urban centres with populations as low as 24,000 into consideration, leading to arguments for Sligo, Tralee, Carlow, Drogheda, Dundalk, Trim, etc., etc. and again leads to the designation of city looking very arbitrary indeed. This leads very quickly to the "you have to draw the line somewhere" kind of thinking, and, alas, the line is all too often drawn above Waterford. It would therefore be nice if state agencies realised that there is already a legal line that has been drawn for them.

At the end of the day, trifling issues, such as whether Waterford is featured on a programme or not, feed self-fulfilling prophecies regarding future exposure, status and investment, creating or alleviating a range of issues regarding the status of institutions such as the WIT, WRH, the airport and so on. The sad fact is that until such a time as this country is rationally planned according to demographic concerns, we have to be acutely concerned about Waterford's national profile.

7upfree · 06-07-2012 6:34pm

Baby4 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

My Dad got that response too. His reply to it:

Thank you Mary.

For your information Kilkenny is not a City - although it calls itself one. It has a borough council - not a City council.

Waterford is the oldest City in Ireland - predating even Dublin. It is extremely disingenuous to use the lame Kilkenny argument to be honest with you.

This is absolutely typical of the ongoing discriminatory treatment of Waterford City by RTE and sections of the broadcast and print media.

Yours in disgust,

membersonly · 06-07-2012 6:46pm

This thread is absolute gold. The email to RTE gets me every time.

mccarthy37 · 07-07-2012 2:45pm

7upfree wrote: »

My Dad got that response too. His reply to it:

Thank you Mary.

For your information Kilkenny is not a City - although it calls itself one. It has a borough council - not a City council.

Waterford is the oldest City in Ireland - predating even Dublin. It is extremely disingenuous to use the lame Kilkenny argument to be honest with you.

This is absolutely typical of the ongoing discriminatory treatment of Waterford City by RTE and sections of the broadcast and print media.

Yours in disgust,

Kilkenny is a city it was granted a city charter by the British. You should write to the BBC at least they would give you an intelligent reply.

Trick of the Tail · 07-07-2012 2:48pm

It was alright, but the charter expired and was not renewed.

So technically Kilkenny is not a city, but under the aforementioned Irish act, it is allowed to call itself 'Kilkenny City' for historic reasons.

A.

7upfree · 07-07-2012 5:02pm

alinton wrote: »

It was alright, but the charter expired and was not renewed.

So technically Kilkenny is not a city, but under the aforementioned Irish act, it is allowed to call itself 'Kilkenny City' for historic reasons.

A.

Well said.

It has a borough Council not a City Council. Nuff said.

Surely by that logic Clonmel, Dungarvan, Youghal, Ennis etc could also call themselves Cities?

Junior · 08-07-2012 9:46am

I've decided from hence forth I now live in Bally City, Co. Waterford, declare your city today and soon you can be like kilkenny !

comeraghs · 09-07-2012 3:45pm

Lismore, Ferns & Tuam are also cities! Well they are allowed call themselves cities, so isn't that the same!

membersonly · 09-07-2012 4:16pm

comeraghs wrote: »

Lismore, Ferns & Tuam are also cities! Well they are allowed call themselves cities, so isn't that the same!

Who gives a flying f*ck like, seriously?

merlante · 09-07-2012 4:27pm

comeraghs wrote: »

Lismore, Ferns & Tuam are also cities! Well they are allowed call themselves cities, so isn't that the same!

Local Government Act, 2001.

Cities:
Local Government Areas (Counties and Cities): Part 2.

Kilkenny clause:
Local government areas.

(7) This section is without prejudice to the continued use of the description city in relation to Kilkenny, to the extent that that description was used before the establishment day and is not otherwise inconsistent with this Act.

Feel free to wear out your keyboard by repeatedly searching for Ferns, Lismore, etc. in that document until reality sinks in.

If only there was a button that would insert this response automatically on all city/Kilkenny/Ferns/Tir na NOg/myFavouriteTownCity threads.

Green Hornet · 09-07-2012 7:29pm

Jeepers folks, what the heck is it with Waterford and Kilkenny on this forum? The fact of the matter is that outside of either 'place', nobody seriously considers either one to be a city!

S28382 · 09-07-2012 7:34pm

Waterford is just a large town, Kilkenny is just a town. Now New York is a city, Barcelona is a city, Rome is a city etc...... the only cities in ireland are Dublin and........em Dublin.

Green Hornet · 09-07-2012 7:44pm

Yep. It comes into many threads on here that KK is not really a city and shouldn't be classed as one but in reality Waterford isn't really one either and I don't care about charters and rubbish like that. For me, a city comes down to size - pure and simple.

Gets on my goat that so many threads descend into this Waterford vs Kilkenny rubbish.

Firegaurd · 09-07-2012 7:54pm

7upfree wrote: »

Well said.

It has a borough Council not a City Council. Nuff said.

Surely by that logic Clonmel, Dungarvan, Youghal, Ennis etc could also call themselves Cities?

Fingal and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown have County Councils but that doesn't make them Counties.

Jason Todd · 09-07-2012 7:58pm

Green Hornet wrote: »

Yep. It comes into many threads on here that KK is not really a city and shouldn't be classed as one but in reality Waterford isn't really one either and I don't care about charters and rubbish like that. For me, a city comes down to size - pure and simple.

Gets on my goat that so many threads descend into this Waterford vs Kilkenny rubbish.

Have you been reading the thread? It's not a Waterford v Kilkenny thing. It was a Waterford City v RTE thing until people were unsure whether KK was classes as a city or not as RTE believed it was, but it isn't. Really Waterford only a city in name, but if RTE are going to do a show on 4 out of the 5 national cities, the question of why we were excluded had to be asked.

Green Hornet · 09-07-2012 8:04pm

Yes, I did read the thread and it started off well enough but then descended into whether or not KK was a city.......what had that got to do with the OP?

I suppose I'm just venting because I wish that this whole thing didn't come into so many threads. So many seem to veer off into that type of discussion....

Jason Todd · 09-07-2012 8:14pm

Baby4 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Kilkenny is a city it was granted a city charter by the British. You should write to the BBC at least they would give you an intelligent reply.

Green Hornet wrote: »

Yes, I did read the thread and it started off well enough but then descended into whether or not KK was a city.......what had that got to do with the OP?

I suppose I'm just venting because I wish that this whole thing didn't come into so many threads. So many seem to veer off into that type of discussion....

You just contradicted yourself, so are you annoyed its a Waterford v Kilkenny thing or annoyed that the thread has become whether or not KK is a city?

The posts I've Quoted above show where the confusion about Kilkennys city status arised. I'd be annoyed if the thread did become a Waterford v Kilkenny thing, but I see no sign of that here.

S28382 · 09-07-2012 8:39pm

Mr Todd it seems like your looking for a debate thats not really there, i think the Green Hornet was wondering why the KK/Waterford debate sometimes comes up on the forum, i dont think he/she was trying to start the debate about KK/Waterford, the simple fact of the matter is that Waterford is not a city,Kilkenny is not a city nor is Cork/Galway/Limerick so its RTE that have got it wrong, the name of the show should be Creedons towns, and jesus Waterford will still be excluded cause no one loves us.

Green Hornet · 09-07-2012 8:59pm

Couldn't have said it any better myself!

abouttobebanned · 09-07-2012 9:01pm

No one loves us but we shouldn't give a ****. I really wish we'd stop being so obsessed with this city thing, it's embarrassing. I've always said it, I'd rather leave in a great town than a crap city.

Trick of the Tail · 09-07-2012 9:05pm

It doesn't matter one jot whether you THINK someplace should be a 'City'.

Its the law. Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford are cities, whether you like it or not. Kilkenny is no longer a city, but it allowed under the law to continue using the term for historical reasons.

This is not opinion, it is fact.

Merlente quoted the relevant legislation above.

Full stop.

A.

road_high · 09-07-2012 9:31pm

Green Hornet wrote: »

Yes, I did read the thread and it started off well enough but then descended into whether or not KK was a city.......what had that got to do with the OP?

I suppose I'm just venting because I wish that this whole thing didn't come into so many threads. So many seem to veer off into that type of discussion....

Seriously, you're dead right. Just had a flick through this thread I'm actually shocked that people in Waterford city believe that to bang on about Kilkenny not being a city that somehow it makes Waterford more of a city. It's actually bordering on obsession. Is this going to get RTE to notice Waterford or put it on an equal footing with Galway et al? Not a hope.
Pretty much every second post here mentions how Kilkenny is not a city.If that makes ya's feel better then fair enough, but is it going to gain recognition of Waterford outside? As somewhere people would visit for the weekend?
You would all be better served put forward real arguments as to why Waterford should be included in the show. Rather than repeatedly mention Kilkenny not being a city. And Kilkenny was not even included in the RTE Show; I'd hate to see the vitriol had we been

P.S. the RTE guy that emailed threw Kilkenny in as a red herring; I'd say the truth was they had never considered Waterford as part of their show and the "two smallest cities" was a way of softening the blow

. But that as I was saying has zilch to do with Kilkenny.

wiggwamm · 09-07-2012 10:15pm

am,excuse me what about belfast,derry and armagh.none of ye mentioned them,
have ye forgotten about us up north or are ye being partitionist as usual,half of us up here are as irish as the rest of ye.theres 8 cities in ireland in my book,5 in the republic and
3 in the north.

S28382 · 09-07-2012 10:27pm

wiggwamm wrote: »

am,excuse me what about belfast,derry and armagh.none of ye mentioned them,
have ye forgotten about us up north or are ye being partitionist as usual,half of us up here are as irish as the rest of ye.theres 8 cities in ireland in my book,5 in the republic and
3 in the north.

RTE forgot about ye too:D ah we didnt forget ye up there we were just comparing the whole crap of who is a city between Waterford/Galway/Kilkenny/Limerick/Cork/Dublin. I spent a week on Falls rd in Belfast and that was nearly as big as Kilkenny:p, its a nice place but yeah if we included the north in our city/town discussion then Belfast is a city.

wiggwamm · 09-07-2012 10:36pm

good man,at least someones thinkin about us.just watched the show,enjoyed it
and found it interesting.

merlante · 09-07-2012 11:22pm

alinton wrote: »

It doesn't matter one jot whether you THINK someplace should be a 'City'.

Its the law. Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford are cities, whether you like it or not. Kilkenny is no longer a city, but it allowed under the law to continue using the term for historical reasons.

This is not opinion, it is fact.

Merlente quoted the relevant legislation above.

Full stop.

A.

Indeed, despite the fact that the law has been quoted -- which should put an end to the matter -- we still have every man and his dog giving his "opinion" on what is or is not a city. It's like groundhog day on here.

What cracks me up then are the people getting worked up about other people getting worked up about whether X or Y is a city. Just point to the law. It's a matter of dusty, boring legislation. Let it go. Can't we just have a definitive post/thread at the top of the board which people are required to read before posting? Because this is getting really old.

RTE1: Creedon's Cities - except Waterford!

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