.22 Pistols

German pointer · 03-10-2015 11:53am #1

After waiting months to see it and
as the new SI has cleared up the issue of the .22 pistols what dealers have .22 pistols in stock at the moment. So as I can go and handle one before I buy.

I feel a road trip coming on â˜º

Witcher · 03-10-2015 12:19pm

Hilltop have four or five in stock at the moment.

German pointer · 03-10-2015 12:41pm

any idea what they are

Witcher · 03-10-2015 12:46pm

They've a revolver, .22 Sig, Ruger MKIII 22/45, may have been a 1911 there too. Pat might have more for sale, that's just what he had in the case.

German pointer · 11-10-2015 12:32am

got sorted with one today

Tackleberry. · 11-10-2015 12:51pm

German pointer wrote: »

got sorted with one today

So what did you go for? Stuck a deposit on a ruger mk111 myself.

German pointer · 11-10-2015 1:53pm

went with the Hammerli Xesse

boc121 · 11-10-2015 7:12pm

Tackleberry. wrote: »

So what did you go for? Stuck a deposit on a ruger mk111 myself.

German pointer wrote: »

went with the Hammerli Xesse

Have been ringing around the last few days not much out there.
Just wondering where ye got sorted?

German pointer · 11-10-2015 7:33pm

I got it from paddy in Habour house

boc121 · 12-10-2015 5:00pm

German pointer wrote: »

I got it from paddy in Habour house

Thanks for that.

hexosan · 12-10-2015 6:02pm

German pointer wrote: »

went with the Hammerli Xesse

What sort of money if you don't mind saying.

German pointer · 13-10-2015 7:50am

hexosan wrote:

What sort of money if you don't mind saying.

sent you a PM

German pointer · 13-10-2015 7:50am

hexosan wrote:

What sort of money if you don't mind saying.

sent you a PM

Tackleberry. · 13-10-2015 9:26pm

boc121 wrote: »

Have been ringing around the last few days not much out there.
Just wondering where ye got sorted?

I got from Paddy in The Alamo in Kerry

boc121 · 16-10-2015 12:10am

Tackleberry. wrote: »

I got from Paddy in The Alamo in Kerry

Cheers.

Norinco · 20-10-2015 8:09pm

Any dealer currently stock Buckmark contour 5.5 urx? cheers

cw67irl · 21-10-2015 9:45am

Tannyoky Guns in NI usually have a full range of buckmarks

German pointer · 21-10-2015 2:18pm

the application went in today so the waiting begins

Norinco · 21-10-2015 3:03pm

cw67irl wrote: »

Tannyoky Guns in NI usually have a full range of buckmarks

thank you,will ring them tomorrow

garrettod · 09-11-2015 2:00am

Norinco wrote: »

Any dealer currently stock Buckmark contour 5.5 urx? cheers

None in Hilltop ?

Norinco · 09-11-2015 11:29am

None in Hilltop,there's 1 in NI but won't deal from south RE: pistol as too much hassle he said:(

Wadi14 · 09-11-2015 2:04pm

Norinco wrote: »

None in Hilltop,there's 1 in NI but won't deal from south RE: pistol as too much hassle he said:(

Why not ring some of the dealers up North who will deal with you, and tell them what you want, and even tell them where there is one , or you buy it through your local dealer and get him to import in down .

Whether you buy it in the North or the South or it comes from Germany it will take the same amount of time to process your licence application, so if that's the pistol you want buy it from where ever, and you'll have it soon after your licence is granted.

Cass · 09-11-2015 2:11pm

Norinco wrote: »

.......... pistol as too much hassle he said:(

I seen this before. In person and from lads on here.

It's laziness really. The dealer just cannot be bothered to do the paperwork. I guarantee if you wave the cash fro the gun under his nose, and have the paperwork (for your end) filled in he'll change his tone).

It's not a big deal at all. You fill in an import form, supplying the dealers details. He applies for an export from the PSNI, and when all paperwork comes through he sends it down. As you may not have the license or to "ease his mind" you can, as said above, do i form the dealer in the North to a dealer in the South.

Wadi14 · 09-11-2015 2:15pm

I have worked through dealers in the North, as I'm only a few miles from the border, but have been told before by a couple dealers that they wouldn't deal, they lost out I went else where and got what I wanted.

clivej · 09-11-2015 3:11pm

Cass wrote: »

I seen this before. In person and from lads on here.

It's laziness really. The dealer just cannot be bothered to do the paperwork. I guarantee if you wave the cash fro the gun under his nose, and have the paperwork (for your end) filled in he'll change his tone).

It's not a big deal at all. You fill in an import form, supplying the dealers details. He applies for an export from the PSNI, and when all paperwork comes through he sends it down. As you may not have the license or to "ease his mind" you can, as said above, do i form the dealer in the North to a dealer in the South.

The biggest problem with what you are saying Cass is that to get the import license the dealer mush be able to show that a valid firearms license has been issued for the said handgun. A dealer may import a rifle or shotgun as usual.

Cass · 09-11-2015 6:12pm

clivej wrote: »

The biggest problem with what you are saying Cass is that to get the import license the dealer mush be able to show that a valid firearms license has been issued for the said handgun.

No they don't.

A dealer from the South can import a pistol (or any firearm) from a dealer in the North (or anywhere) with no need to show any license. If that was the case then all dealers would have to license all guns before they sell them. They would do this under their RFD license.

The only "issue" would be payment. The person importing, say the OP, would have to pay the dealer in the North and as such the pistol would be his property. The dealer here then holds it until a license is applied for and gotten. If the person was refused then the pistol is still their property, just they cannot license it and so cannot use it.

BattleCorp · 10-11-2015 9:29am

Cass wrote: »

A dealer from the South can import a pistol (or any firearm) from a dealer in the North (or anywhere) with no need to show any license. If that was the case then all dealers would have to license all guns before they sell them. They would do this under their RFD license.

.

Are you sure about this Cass?

I was told by a dealer that they can bring in rifles and shotguns without a licence but a licence has to be issued before they can bring in pistols.

Cass · 10-11-2015 1:13pm

There is no distinction when it comes to importing any unrestricted rifle/shotgun to a pistol. The dealers are covering their arses.

Dealers know that pistols are harder to license than a rifle or shotgun. It's the reason why most keep serial numbers on record rather than the actual firearm. I guarantee if you walked into a dealer, handed him the full price of the pistol, told him to import it and you'd deal with the license later then he'd do it. Without you having a license.

There may be a case where dealers have a harder time importing pistols, but it's not a legal issue, rather a DoJ one. IOW if the dealer wanted to import 10 pistols to have in stock and the DoJ refused him well then he just doesn't get them. However if he goes to import 10 pistols and each pistol has already been granted a license to a person then the DoJ cannot really go against the decision of the Super.

Look at the pistols some dealers have in stock. Where did they come from? They did not take all of them in as trade ins. I know two dealers that have told me that once it's paid for in full, upfront, they'll being in anything i want. It's up to me to get the license after that.

I rarely say i cannot be wrong but in this case i don't think i am. I'll put it this way or ask this. Can anyone show me any legislation that supports the dealers stance? If you can please do, because as far as i'm concerned they are simply covering their asses for the reasons above.

Cass · 10-11-2015 1:55pm

By the by.

If a person already has a license for the gun then the dealer is redundant as you can do a personal import, bypassing the dealer, and if you wanted could get a visitors pass from the PSNI and go up and collect it.

clivej · 11-11-2015 12:54pm

Cass wrote: »

No they don't.

A dealer from the South can import a pistol (or any firearm) from a dealer in the North (or anywhere) with no need to show any license. If that was the case then all dealers would have to license all guns before they sell them. They would do this under their RFD license.

The only "issue" would be payment. The person importing, say the OP, would have to pay the dealer in the North and as such the pistol would be his property. The dealer here then holds it until a license is applied for and gotten. If the person was refused then the pistol is still their property, just they cannot license it and so cannot use it.

Cass wrote: »

There is no distinction when it comes to importing any unrestricted rifle/shotgun to a pistol. The dealers are covering their arses.

Dealers know that pistols are harder to license than a rifle or shotgun. It's the reason why most keep serial numbers on record rather than the actual firearm. I guarantee if you walked into a dealer, handed him the full price of the pistol, told him to import it and you'd deal with the license later then he'd do it. Without you having a license.

There may be a case where dealers have a harder time importing pistols, but it's not a legal issue, rather a DoJ one. IOW if the dealer wanted to import 10 pistols to have in stock and the DoJ refused him well then he just doesn't get them. However if he goes to import 10 pistols and each pistol has already been granted a license to a person then the DoJ cannot really go against the decision of the Super.

Look at the pistols some dealers have in stock. Where did they come from? They did not take all of them in as trade ins. I know two dealers that have told me that once it's paid for in full, upfront, they'll being in anything i want. It's up to me to get the license after that.

I rarely say i cannot be wrong but in this case i don't think i am. I'll put it this way or ask this. Can anyone show me any legislation that supports the dealers stance? If you can please do, because as far as i'm concerned they are simply covering their asses for the reasons above.

I have been told directly by the importer of a high number of handguns into Ireland that He "must have a valid license issued on the handgun" before they will get an import license to import the said handgun.
Must talk to you about this next time we meet up.

Cass · 11-11-2015 1:06pm

If that is the case then it's "illegal". By that i mean it's a policy the DoJ (as the ones that issue import licenses) have invoked rather than a legal position which has it's basis in the firearms act.

Sparks · 11-11-2015 3:02pm

I've heard that story too Clive, and Cass is not only right about it being illegal, there's a supreme court case from a while back on exactly this point of law (McVeigh) and it came down heavily on the side of the dealer to the point of stating that "the Minister had made an unlawful decision".

Wadi14 · 11-11-2015 10:33pm

Its still the case in many parts of the country, dealers will not bring in a pistol until after the licence has been granted then they will look to import it. I have been told they cant bring in a pistol until the licence is granted.

Cass · 12-11-2015 1:04am

Wadi14 wrote: »

Its still the case in many parts of the country, dealers will not bring in a pistol until after the licence has been granted then they will look to import it.

The it's one of two instances:

Dealer covering himself from any costs should a person not get a license and they import the gun (which can be avoided by making a person pay upfront before importing)
DoJ not issuing imports until a license has been granted which, as shown above, is illegal.

In either case it's wrong. If a license was granted then there is no need for a dealer, and if using a dealer they can, legally, import the gun without a license being granted first.

I have been told they cant bring in a pistol until the licence is granted.

As above. Yes they can, legally. If the DoJ are stopping this then they are breaking not only the law, but as Sparks pointed out the ruling of a supreme case on the exact same matter.

Wadi14 · 12-11-2015 1:35am

I wont see my local RFD soon but I will ask him to clarify.

Cass · 12-11-2015 1:47am

Do.

I'd be interested to know if it's a policy dealers are implementing (and if so why) or if it's problems they are facing from DoJ.

I remember some time back i was looking at getting another pistol. I rang around and all dealers told me two things:

I'd only have to pay a deposit, enough to cover shipping costs should i get refused the license.
I could apply for the license as they were importing the gun to cut down waiting time between the gun arriving and me being licensed on it.

If it's the DoJ refusing to issue import licenses/permits then they are going against the firearms act, law and the ruling in the case Sparks linked to.

cw67irl · 12-11-2015 10:04pm

I have never heard of a pistol import permit being granted until it had been licenced to someone. As far as i knew and had been told they would only be granted once the pistol is licenced to someone. The apparent reason being to prevent dealers having stocks of pistols. One of the main hurdles for a new shooter being the lack of dealers with any stock you struggled to pick a suitable pistol without the ability to handle/shoot them.

Be interested to hear if its a genuine restriction by DOJ or just someones policy

Cass · 12-11-2015 10:26pm

cw67irl wrote: »

I have never heard of a pistol import permit being granted until it had been licenced to someone.

I have never heard of someone having to have a license BEFORE they can import a gun. NEVER. This thread was the first mention of it.

Can i once again draw people's attention to the link above about the McVeigh -v- Minister for Justice (there were two other cases, but his is important). Justice Fennelly (among the three) said:

Section 17(4) of the Act of 1925 provides that the Minister may grant an occasional import licence either to any person who holds or could be granted a firearm certificate for the firearm or to a registered firearms dealer.

This means if you hold a license or could hold one you can import a gun. Justice Fennelly went on to say that the refusal to issue an import license on the basis that a firearms license may not be granted is beyond the scope of his discretionary powers.

Justice Fennelly also said that as an RFD he (the RFD) could in the course of his business import firearms that are legal to license without the need for a person to be granted a license for the firearm.:

Firstly, the Minister made the exercise of his discretion contingent on grant by a Garda Superintendent of a firearms certificate in respect of particular types of firearms: there is no legal basis by which the Minister could determine a priori that Garda Superintendents should not grant firearms certificates in respect of certain types of firearm.

Now i'm not legal expert, but the judgement of the cases were for the plantiffs and the Justices basically said the minister was wrong, and refusing to grant import licenses was beyond his discretionary powers (in short, illegal).

Wadi14 · 12-11-2015 10:33pm

I'd say no one told the RFD's and the powers at be are quite happy that they don't know, their not going to tell them, I even heard it from my local Sgt saying that every thing else can be brought in except a pistol.
Looks like a policy thing, the mushroom syndrome keep them in the dark and feed them full of ..............

Cass · 12-11-2015 10:44pm

The thing is the law never changed. The case was brought after some dealers were refused import licenses on guns that are perfectly legal to license here. The court case only served to highlight the illegality of refusing import licenses (not just to RFDs, but in this case to an RFD) based on the type or caliber of gun.

I'll put it this way. If someone were so inclined they could seek the import permit (to an RFD or by an RFD) and if refused they could cite the case above, the law as it stands and "force" the issuing of an import license. Whether that "forcing" is by the "threat" of the above case or having to go to court and use the above case as reason it would be won.

As i said above, and as per the case, an RFD must be able to import guns to sell. It's their business. Having an RFD license does away with the need for a person to individually license each gun before selling them. If the DoJ were right then an RFD would have to license each gun himself, which is a monumental waste of time and moots the need for an RFD license.

As i also said, there is no distinction in the law (none that i have found) that says an unrestricted pistol is in any way different to an unrestricted rifle, unrestricted shotgun, restricted rifle, etc. IOW any other gun that can be legally licensed here.

turismo2142 · 28-12-2015 10:57pm

My two cents. I've a model 41 smith and Wesson on the way and my dealer (Munster) told me the same thing. Licence first, then import. I wondered about this myself at the time but wasn't in much of a rush so I made nothing if it.

It looks like an ultra vires policy of the doj rather than anything the dealers are up to. I can tell you this because the shortage of model 41s and the premium prices they're now commanding plus the fact that dealers have to pay €200 per carriage of firearms coming from us whether it's one or ten guns suggests that it's squarely in a dealers interests to bring in batches. The licence first and then import scenario is contrary to dealers interests because it makes the whole process more expensive.

Cass · 28-12-2015 11:30pm

I have shown above that this practice by the DoJ is illegal. If the dealers are sitting back and allowing this to happen then they are either ignorant (a dangerous thing to be as an RFD) or happy enough to be made to things illegally rather than rock the boat.

The laughable part is the law is on their side. It's also part of the principle act and not an SI so it would take a change of the firearms act to amend it. Meaning the RFDs can be as pushy as they like and the DoJ have no legal footing from which to fight it.

Lastly, are not ALL RFDs part of either the "sports coalition" or the Firearms Dealers Association? Why the feck are they not onto their representative and having them bring this issue up, especially now with the renewal of the FCP?

German pointer · 09-02-2016 7:55pm

A quick update

Grant letter arrived today

German pointer · 20-05-2016 10:12am

The eagle has landed she finally arrived today

Cass · 20-05-2016 3:30pm

No stopping you now.

Congrats and well wear.

Ziggieire · 21-05-2016 10:38am

German pointer wrote: »

The eagle has landed she finally arrived today

Looking forward to seeing it.
Ill be in the market for one myself in the future. you can walk me trough it when i see you

German pointer · 21-05-2016 6:38pm

Ziggieire wrote:

Looking forward to seeing it. Ill be in the market for one myself in the future. you can walk me trough it when i see you

I was just thinking maybe you should get it soonest and before they cap numbers because of the rush.

garrettod · 22-05-2016 2:14am

German pointer wrote: »

I was just thinking maybe you should get it soonest and before they cap numbers because of the rush.

A shame to have to think like that, but you are probably right given it's quite possible they will cap the .22s next.

German pointer · 22-05-2016 8:45am

garrettod wrote: »

A shame to have to think like that, but you are probably right given it's quite possible they will cap the .22s next.

Its a catch 22 buy them before the rush and create the rush or wait till your ready and the cap is imposed and you lose out.

Sparks · 22-05-2016 11:29am

Lads, if everyone in the country currently shooting pistol went out and bought another one today, the numbers involved are so small that a very good argument could be made at the FCP that it wasn't a huge surge; and in the more likely event that it grows at the normal rate over time it won't be an issue unless someone plays silly buggers for an election stunt (and that wouldn't be linked to actual facts at all so it's not worth keeping the sport static to avoid).

In other words, if you want to take up the sport, do so, and stop worrying about a cap that has no plan in place other than a throwaway comment by the last Minister (who right now has a lot more on her plate than us).

garrettod · 26-05-2016 4:55pm

German pointer wrote: »

Its a catch 22 buy them before the rush and create the rush or wait till your ready and the cap is imposed and you lose out.

Love your pun on the old 22

Sparks

The one problem with what you've posted is your trying to apply logic here

... also, lets not forget who our new "super junior minister" is for a moment and what happens if he gets another notion to try and help save society (in between bringing smoking back inside the hospitals, doing 180s on his water charges policy etc :rolleyes:).

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.22 Pistols

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