Elite armed squad to tackle gangland crime in Limerick

Fyr.Fytr · 06-09-2008 12:27am

metman wrote: »

You did.

Yes your posts offend me when they are posted on topics where you have zero knowledge but profess to have a friend/cousin/uncle in AGS/ARW/ERU/Whatever.

Ultimately kiddo your posts are becoming the epitomy of wannabe and are boring me on here. Your posts contribute nothing from your own personal experience, which I wouldn't mind, but you profess to be an expert on everything right up to using a g36, when you've never even seen one; so your posts are clearly bogus.

I'd rather you said nothing at all than spoke out of your arsehole.

Ok fair enough, i apologise, we'll leave it at that

Edit: previous post removed

PeelerHurley · 06-09-2008 12:51am

CLADA wrote: »

I'm sure what metman really meant to say was:
, it is preferable to perform a tactical mag change and discard this magazine and replace it with a fully loaded mag.

This is far preferable than to continue firing until empty and then realise you have to perform an emergency mag change when your life may be in immediate danger.

Ah a man who has done the course reading that brings me back to the range where we had instructors shouting tactical, 1 shot, 2 shots, kneeling.

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Ok fair enough, i apologise, we'll leave it at that

Edit: previous post removed

Awh poor fr fytr licking his wounds for the night.

JonAnderton · 06-09-2008 6:29am

I had a very long and detailed reply written out but this interweb is playing silly buggers and I got so wound up typing the last one, I'll try and keep this brief.

Everyones entitled to their opinion, but it is very annoying, and to a certain degree, disrepectful, when people who have no knowledge (working or otherwise) of tactical firearms situations decide to criticse the people who tend to do this day in day out.

One of the major things people who have never done any sort of Tac training don't realise is the effect that the stress of the immediate situation can have on an officer. Perceptual distortion of your hearing... your vision narrowing.. memory blanks.. The public don't get the jist of what goes on to a persons body and mind in these situations. Counting rounds is the last thing on my mind. Thats why we have the tac reloads, the top up reloads and of course, the 'New York Reload'.

I'm sure messrs H&K have a better knowledge of me on the benefits of the delayed blowback principals of their MP5's but I bet they can't have any idea whats going through the mind of the operator of said weapon as he's covering an armed suspect leaving a containment... I'm not saying that just because you're not Job that you mustn't have any clue of whats what, but generally, officers will have a better understanding and appreciation of the roles of AFO's and now, the RSU's. Consider that most peoples knowledge of armed policing comes from what they see on TV or read in The Sun.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but lets make sure they are informed opinions wheather it be that of a MoP with an interest in Law enforcement or a 25 year old sweat who always goes on about the job being f**ked. This is what these forums are for after all, discussion and debate. Most people on this forum are well informed and genuinley intrested in what we talk about, hence why I enjoy participating, but please, before posting things which may criticise other peoples working practises or methods, lets think before we hit that submit button... there's a big difference between debate and discussion, and ill informed criticism and insult.

Now, the best way I know to roll out a hose...:D

ps. This was as brief as I could make it...lol

wicklaman83 · 06-09-2008 9:13am

JonAnderton wrote: »

I had a very long and detailed reply written out but this interweb is playing silly buggers and I got so wound up typing the last one, I'll try and keep this brief.

Everyones entitled to their opinion, but it is very annoying, and to a certain degree, disrepectful, when people who have no knowledge (working or otherwise) of tactical firearms situations decide to criticse the people who tend to do this day in day out.

One of the major things people who have never done any sort of Tac training don't realise is the effect that the stress of the immediate situation can have on an officer. Perceptual distortion of your hearing... your vision narrowing.. memory blanks.. The public don't get the jist of what goes on to a persons body and mind in these situations. Counting rounds is the last thing on my mind. Thats why we have the tac reloads, the top up reloads and of course, the 'New York Reload'.

I'm sure messrs H&K have a better knowledge of me on the benefits of the delayed blowback principals of their MP5's but I bet they can't have any idea whats going through the mind of the operator of said weapon as he's covering an armed suspect leaving a containment... I'm not saying that just because you're not Job that you mustn't have any clue of whats what, but generally, officers will have a better understanding and appreciation of the roles of AFO's and now, the RSU's. Consider that most peoples knowledge of armed policing comes from what they see on TV or read in The Sun.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but lets make sure they are informed opinions wheather it be that of a MoP with an interest in Law enforcement or a 25 year old sweat who always goes on about the job being f**ked. This is what these forums are for after all, discussion and debate. Most people on this forum are well informed and genuinley intrested in what we talk about, hence why I enjoy participating, but please, before posting things which may criticise other peoples working practises or methods, lets think before we hit that submit button... there's a big difference between debate and discussion, and ill informed criticism and insult.

Now, the best way I know to roll out a hose...:D

ps. This was as brief as I could make it...lol

i dont think what fyr posted was intended to be ctiticism or an insult to any member or the force

Fyr.Fytr · 06-09-2008 1:25pm

My statement wasnt based on watching the bill or reading the sun, its from former and current members of AGS and the defence forces, just repeating whats been said to me. Also one of my points which was ignored how do AFO's cope when using pistols then??

Anyway It wasnt ment to be an insult, as it was taken that way ive retracted my statement, can we move on?

metman · 06-09-2008 3:09pm

Came across this old school video about the early days of Armed Response Vehicles on SO19 (as it was in 1993). Should be of interest to those keen to find out a bit about the RSUs.

SO19 Video

Love the old Rover ARVs!

JonAnderton · 06-09-2008 3:54pm

My appologies.. I just thought someone saying that any good shooter should be able to count his rounds was a bit insulting and maybe showed a bit of ignorance to what it's like to be an AFO... My post wasn't directed at anyone person (despite the hose comment) but once I got started. Had to let it all out...:)

How do we cope with pistols for what?... knowing how many rounds are left?.. The same way we do with every other weapon, be it MP5 or MP7... with the added bonus that there's a big clue as to when it's empty...

JonAnderton · 06-09-2008 3:56pm

Mike Waldron wrote a book, 'Armed Police'... the history of armed police in the UK from the second world war up to today... very good read...

eroo · 06-09-2008 4:09pm

metman wrote: »

Came across this old school video about the early days of Armed Response Vehicles on SO19 (as it was in 1993). Should be of interest to those keen to find out a bit about the RSUs.

SO19 Video

Love the old Rover ARVs!

Ya those Rovers were a class of their own by the looks of them!I really that picture in Roger Gray's book of the 2 Rovers rolling out on the first day of the ARV's!

yayamark · 06-09-2008 4:44pm

metman wrote: »

Came across this old school video about the early days of Armed Response Vehicles on SO19 (as it was in 1993). Should be of interest to those keen to find out a bit about the RSUs.

SO19 Video

Love the old Rover ARVs!

Loved the ending

Funny but scary at the same time

Eru · 06-09-2008 7:23pm

Let it be forever remembered that two posters got hot and bothered with each other and it didn't involve me!

metman · 07-09-2008 12:10am

An insight into what RSU hand signals really mean....

picture.php?albumid=143&pictureid=720

Fyr.Fytr · 07-09-2008 12:35am

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Let it be forever remembered that two posters got hot and bothered with each other and it didn't involve me!

I know crazy or what??

JonAnderton wrote: »

My appologies.. I just thought someone saying that any good shooter should be able to count his rounds was a bit insulting and maybe showed a bit of ignorance to what it's like to be an AFO... My post wasn't directed at anyone person (despite the hose comment) but once I got started. Had to let it all out...:)

How do we cope with pistols for what?... knowing how many rounds are left?.. The same way we do with every other weapon, be it MP5 or MP7... with the added bonus that there's a big clue as to when it's empty...

I ment that the argument was raised re the clear mags of the g36 that you know when your running low on rounds, i asked if this is the case how do you cope with pistols or mp7's for that matter where the clear mag isnt visable?

TheNog · 07-09-2008 1:18am

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Let it be forever remembered that two posters got hot and bothered with each other and it didn't involve me!

wonders will never cease :pac::pac:

TheNog · 07-09-2008 1:19am

metman wrote: »

An insight into what RSU hand signals really mean....

{/QUOTE]

LOL class

JonAnderton · 07-09-2008 6:25am

You forgot this one Metman

The signal for "I've worked with this guv'nor before"

metman · 07-09-2008 12:22pm

Spot on

TheNog · 07-09-2008 11:46pm

More tripe from the Evening Herald describing the RSU as Robocops. Terry Prone really shows how out of touch he or she (hell I don;t know) with what's going on in Ireland and the potential for serious violence. In all the pure and utter crap he or she wrote there is only one small piece of opinion that does raise a question and that is whether the RSU will have constant training.

http://www.herald.ie/opinion/comment/do-we-really-need-robocops-1470127.html

Fyr.Fytr · 08-09-2008 12:38am

Its the hearld, in the same vein as joe duffy and adrian kennedy

eroo · 08-09-2008 12:48am

TheNog wrote: »

More tripe from the Evening Herald describing the RSU as Robocops. Terry Prone really shows how out of touch he or she (hell I don;t know) with what's going on in Ireland and the potential for serious violence. In all the pure and utter crap he or she wrote there is only one small piece of opinion that does raise a question and that is whether the RSU will have constant training.

http://www.herald.ie/opinion/comment/do-we-really-need-robocops-1470127.html

Here is what is wrong that article(besides being in The Herald);

''The Army Ranger Wing itself was created by Dermot Earley''

FALSE.He was one of the selected Officers who went on the US Ranger course,he didn't do it all by himself.

The Army Rangers are now regarded as among the best ranger wings in the world. They have competed against the US Navy SEALs in elite forces tests and beaten them.

There are plenty of units throughout the world with the word 'Ranger' in their unit designation.However,most of these are nothing like ARW or US RANGERS,they have either different roles or are just conventional units.So one cannot say there are 'ranger wings' throughout the world.As for SEALs,that is pure speculation on the journalists part.

Although we have armed violence in this country, it has tended to take the form of one armed gang member picking off another

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Without a critical mass of this kind of explosive violence, you have to wonder if the lads are not going to spend their days hanging around Mrs Beggan's post office hoping for action.

They are regular uniform Gardai,they won't be sitting around waiting for something to happen.Has he even heard about the roles of these 'armed support units'!?Every other journalist seems to,why not him too?

The RSU's skills have to be kept sharp enough that they don't shoot Mrs Beggan and her cat. It's going to cost a small fortune to train the RSU and keep them trained to a high level of combat-readiness.

Well,I honestly can't imagine they won't follow along the lines of best international practice.
Combat-readiness?Why would they need to be combat ready?They are law enforcement.

The other important question is: How much protection do we need from what? Unless Mrs Beggans and her cat are armed, the Robo Cops are going to face long stretches of boredom.

Oh sweet Lord above!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

djtechnics1210 · 08-09-2008 1:14am

it says in papers and on telly that rsu does 13 weeks training and that they are as highly trained as ERU, on a brake down
1) standard gun course
2) MP7
3) method of entry
4) standard driving course
5) over 2.5l
6) advanced driving course
7) Tactical training level 1
8) Tactical training level 2
9) Emergency first responder
10) Negotiator
11) Tactical car stops

These on their own take 20 weeks and thats not including shotgun, gas mask, cs gas, bean bag, tazer, rappeling etc etc,how are they as well trained as ERU when it takes ERU 6 months to be fully qualified but it only took the RSU 13 weeks to do all of this training.

Fyr.Fytr · 08-09-2008 1:18am

EFR course alone is 1 whole week, plus exams

eroo · 08-09-2008 1:41am

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

it says in papers and on telly that rsu does 13 weeks training and that they are as highly trained as ERU, on a brake down
1) standard gun course
2) MP7
3) method of entry
4) standard driving course
5) over 2.5l
6) advanced driving course
7) Tactical training level 1
8) Tactical training level 2
9) Emergency first responder
10) Negotiator
11) Tactical car stops

These on their own take 20 weeks and thats not including shotgun, gas mask, cs gas, bean bag, tazer, rappeling etc etc,how are they as well trained as ERU when it takes ERU 6 months to be fully qualified but it only took the RSU 13 weeks to do all of this training.

Well if they are anything like ARV's in UK,they won't need as much extensive tactical entry training for siege's.I'm open to correction on this by metman or JonAnderton or anyone else who knows,but afaik ARV's act in a containment capacity mainly(with the ability to carry out entries if needed),and leave the tactical entry side of things to specialist teams?If the RSU's are anything like ARV's in that case,their main task would be to contain a suspect,and allow for negotiations to take place and wait for ERU??

yayamark · 08-09-2008 4:18pm

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

it says in papers and on telly that rsu does 13 weeks training and that they are as highly trained as ERU, on a brake down
1) standard gun course
2) MP7
3) method of entry
4) standard driving course
5) over 2.5l
6) advanced driving course
7) Tactical training level 1
8) Tactical training level 2
9) Emergency first responder
10) Negotiator
11) Tactical car stops

These on their own take 20 weeks and thats not including shotgun, gas mask, cs gas, bean bag, tazer, rappeling etc etc,how are they as well trained as ERU when it takes ERU 6 months to be fully qualified but it only took the RSU 13 weeks to do all of this training.

Standard car course is a prerequisite to starting the RSU course.
Members do not do an Advanced Car course, to drive the Volvo they do a tactical course

JonAnderton · 08-09-2008 10:52pm

With regards to entries, there's differing definitions depending on what you're actually doing. I'm not going to go into the specifics, but there's different ways and means for entries and containments

Obviously SFO's and TST's are entry trained. ARV officers can do an 'extra' search to contact course with means they can enter to search for a suspect. Not usually explosive entires, but basic door bashing or dig outs.

Not all ARV officers can do this, but many can and it's only down to cost and training time. Because ACPO has stated search officers must do very regular training, it would be a logistical nightmare to have every AFO search trained...

Sooooo, instead.. Most AFO's are 'search to contain' and 'enhanced cover and movement' trained. which is basically the theory and tactics of 'searching' through buildings but officially only so you can safely move to a closer position or to 'locate to contain' the suspect.

metman · 09-09-2008 10:27pm

Similar setup in the county forces. ARV crews are predominantly used to stabilise and control armed incidents pending deployment of TFG/SFO, but also undergo further training to enable them to react to spontaneous events.

In a business like policing, operational detail often varies in fast-time critical incidents thus requiring a flexible approach, especially where specialist backup is some way off.

deadwood · 09-09-2008 10:49pm

metman wrote: »

Robocops?
They look like LEGO Stormtroopers!

(I hope the RSU understand that, (as far as I can see) on boards, a smiley face means you can't shoot a poster)

metman · 09-09-2008 10:52pm

Looking at that pic again am in agreement with Jon, they seriously need to lose half the pointless public order pads.....but bearing in mind it was a PR shoot to impress Joe Public.

Random · 13-09-2008 7:30pm

metman wrote: »

Looking at that pic again am in agreement with Jon, they seriously need to lose half the pointless public order pads.....but bearing in mind it was a PR shoot to impress Joe Public.

Love to see them change into all that in less than a minute !

metman · 13-09-2008 9:46pm

A pic I hadn't seen before of an ERU entry team.

picture.php?albumid=143&pictureid=759

Elite armed squad to tackle gangland crime in Limerick

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