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What would you do if you found out God existed?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,524 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    Which of the many hundreds and thousands of gods now and or in our history would this god be, OP?

    If this was the Christian god, there wouldn't be any point in doing anything different because the Christian god apparently doesn't actually do anything. It won't change anything if you pray for something, it won't help you or hinder you or cure someone or make your team score a goal. The Christian god is apparently all powerful, but completely powerless because it can't actually change anything in our lives. So if it was the Christian god that suddenly appeared by way of a shady middle man claiming heaven and earth, I'd be surprised but my life wouldn't change.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭Greenmachine


    How would god prove himself, as the omnipotent creator.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    In my case I might let a priest know or something. I figure they might have a vested interest in this sort of thing.


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gordon wrote: »
    the Christian god apparently doesn't actually do anything
    Ok I'll bite.

    One of the things I've always liked about Christianity is that it doesn't exhort its followers to place blind faith in divine intervention. Growing up, I was always taught that prayer and repentance changes your character, and that is how God intervenes in the world. I think R Catholics believe that God intervenes in mysterious and invisible ways, but I prefer what I was taught.

    Before anyone accuses me of being a God botherer, or replies with that false Bertrand Russell anecdote about turtles, let me say I am an atheist. But I dislike haughty dismissals of Christian belief having witnessed first hand the very positive effects it can have on people. There may be no Christian god, but there is Christian good. Even if he doesn't exist, the Christian god is a good entity who demands good works.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    xLisaBx wrote: »
    Yeah, mutate, damn autocorrect :D

    It has indeed been documented that far back, but it certainly didn't affect one in three like today. He created it knowing cells would mutate, yes, but if he didn't then he would have made us immortal. That wasn't really a goal, either.

    Our world can't really sustain itself without diseases such as cancer and aids. We're overpopulated as it is, and they are an excellent way of culling our population. I know that sounds incredibly heartless, but it's the truth. And if some diseases weren't congenital and contagious, they wouldn't spread as easily and therefore we wouldn't cull the population as efficiently as we do now.

    A God may be doing a great thing for the common good by having a world with disease and decay. Without them, we would run out of resources and all probably die. Some dying is better than all.

    So you don't think god's omnipotent, then? He would not have been able to create a self-sustaining world without inflicting enormous suffering on its inhabitants?

    What's the point of worshipping him, then, if he clearly is unable to help?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    How would god prove himself, as the omnipotent creator.

    By creating a rock so heavy he couldn't even lift it himself. Obviously. :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    A lot of people talking the big talk on this thread.

    If the creator made himself known to you, you'd fall on your f*cking knees let's be honest. And yes, even Mr Fry would lose his eloquence and splutter out his lamentations.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,646 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    A lot of people talking the big talk on this thread.

    If the creator made himself known to you, you'd fall on your f*cking knees let's be honest. And yes, even Mr Fry would lose his eloquence and splutter out his lamentations.

    And yet he chooses not to show himself unless it's on a slice of toast.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    And yet he chooses not to show himself unless it's on a slice of toast.

    Mysterious ways..... ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,524 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    Ok I'll bite.

    One of the things I've always liked about Christianity is that it doesn't exhort its followers to place blind faith in divine intervention. Growing up, I was always taught that prayer and repentance changes your character, and that is how God intervenes in the world. I think R Catholics believe that God intervenes in mysterious and invisible ways, but I prefer what I was taught.

    Before anyone accuses me of being a God botherer, or replies with that false Bertrand Russell anecdote about turtles, let me say I am an atheist. But I dislike haughty dismissals of Christian belief having witnessed first hand the very positive effects it can have on people. There may be no Christian god, but there is Christian good. Even if he doesn't exist, the Christian god is a good entity who demands good works.

    Yoga


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    As Stephen Fry eloquently put it.

    "Bone Cancer in Children? Whats that about? How dare you, how dare you create a world in which there is so much misery that is not our fault, its not right. It is utterly utterly evil, why should I respect a capricious, mean minded, stupid god who creates a world which is so full of injustice and pain"


    Personally if God existed I would instantly find myself warped into a Spiritual North Korea where I have lost all freedom to a god that demands my total obedience. Like many North Koreans I would be looking for the safest way out!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    jaffusmax wrote: »
    As Stephen Fry eloquently put it.

    ...


    Jesus how many more times with that Stephen fcuking Fry quote?

    Not directed at you personally jaffa but it's about the third or fourth time in just this thread alone that quotes been posted, and it doesn't make the people who quote it sound clever, it makes them sound like mocking birds, and it doesn't make Stephen Fry sound clever, it just makes him sound bitter. So if you want to sound bitter but can't quite articulate your bitterness in a way that makes you sound like a clever and witty intellectual, well, I suppose the Stephen Fry quote is useful, and that's about the extent of it's usefulness. It's a bitter little rant more than it is any sort of intellectual marker on humanity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,450 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Ok I'll bite.

    One of the things I've always liked about Christianity is that it doesn't exhort its followers to place blind faith in divine intervention. Growing up, I was always taught that prayer and repentance changes your character, and that is how God intervenes in the world. I think R Catholics believe that God intervenes in mysterious and invisible ways, but I prefer what I was taught.

    Before anyone accuses me of being a God botherer, or replies with that false Bertrand Russell anecdote about turtles, let me say I am an atheist. But I dislike haughty dismissals of Christian belief having witnessed first hand the very positive effects it can have on people. There may be no Christian god, but there is Christian good. Even if he doesn't exist, the Christian god is a good entity who demands good works.


    Christian good is barely skin deep in my experience.
    They turn very dark if their beliefs are interfered with.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 843 ✭✭✭HandsomeDan


    A lot of people talking the big talk on this thread.

    If the creator made himself known to you, you'd fall on your f*cking knees let's be honest. And yes, even Mr Fry would lose his eloquence and splutter out his lamentations.

    Well it's a good job sky fairy doesn't exist then isn't it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    Jesus how many more times with that Stephen fcuking Fry quote?

    Not directed at you personally jaffa but it's about the third or fourth time in just this thread alone that quotes been posted, and it doesn't make the people who quote it sound clever, it makes them sound like mocking birds, and it doesn't make Stephen Fry sound clever, it just makes him sound bitter. So if you want to sound bitter but can't quite articulate your bitterness in a way that makes you sound like a clever and witty intellectual, well, I suppose the Stephen Fry quote is useful, and that's about the extent of it's usefulness. It's a bitter little rant more than it is any sort of intellectual marker on humanity.

    I do not think anyone is trying to "sound clever" by quoting others. It is a very good quote and sums up what alot of people would feel if confronted with the reality of a god.
    As for it being a bitter rant, how could you not be bitter as through no fault of his own, Mr Fry is homosexual and many religions have decreed he is not fit to a place at gods side.

    Perhaps some Hitchens might be more suiting to your palate :)

    Friel plays a game of “What if?” with Hitchens. Below is my condensed paraphrase:
    Friel: “What if God exists, and what if he has provided everything for you… life, health, food, trees, royalties… would he not have been good to you?”
    Hitchens: “No. If that were true, I would have an eternal supervising parent who would never let me get on with my life, never let me grow up, and constantly be asking me to thank and praise him. It would be like living in North Korea and having to continuously praise the ‘Dear Leader.’ I think it’s servile.”
    Friel: “If God created you and provides everything for you, does he have rights on your life?”
    Hitchens: “No. I don’t accept anyone’s right to own me. I created my children and provide for them, but I don’t own them. Besides, would this mean that the sick and starving for whom God has not provided are not owned by God?”
    Friel: “Um… next question… does religion really poison everything?”
    Hitchens: “Yes. If I am someone’s slave, that ruins everything. The Bible calls for slavery and genocide, too, but that doesn’t make it right.”
    Friel: “What if there’s a judgment day? How would you measure up to the Ten Commandments?”
    Hitchens: “The first commandments are about pandering to God’s jealous and self-esteem. I’ve never obeyed those and don’t think anyone should. Same for the Sabbath. Murder, thefy, and lying… I don’t need a Bible to tell me those are wrong. As for honoring parents, it depends how well they treat me. And unfortunately the Ten Commandments do not prohibit child abuse, slavery, or genocide. Coveting, though, is a good thing because it leads to innovation. It’s good to want things, but of course not good to steal them.”
    Friel: “Have you ever been angry, which is committing murder in your heart?”
    Hitchens: “Yes, many times.”
    Friel: “Have you ever lusted?”
    Hitchens: “All the time.”
    Friel: “Have you ever committed adultery?”
    Hitchens: “None of your ****ing business.”
    Friel: “So if God saw you committing all these sins, would he send you to heaven or hell?”
    Hitchens: “Not heaven, I hope. An eternity of praise and groveling and thanksgiving would be my idea of hell.”
    Friel: “But if you’ve broken the Ten Commands, you’d be going to hell, right?”
    Hitchens: “Not by the God of the Old Testament, no. There is no hell in the Old Testament. The idea of eternal torture of the dead for minor infractions doesn’t arrive until Jesus meek and mild.”
    Friel: “What if it’s true that Jesus died on a cross to save your sins? Isn’t that the ultimate act of kindness?”
    Hitchens: “No. I didn’t ask for a human sacrifice and don’t want it. I would’ve tried to stop it. It’s barbaric. I don’t want anybody to immolate themself for me. And I’m not bound by it. It’s an act of extreme presumption to say that ‘What I’m doing now binds millions of unborn children and takes away their freedom.’ It’s a tyrannical act.”
    Friel: “Is it possible the reason you rage against God is that you want to live your own autonomous life?”
    Hitchens: “That’s highly probable, yes.”
    - See more at: http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=1560#sthash.eANnFOPO.dpuf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 462 ✭✭wylie


    I did, he does. Started going to mass on Sundays. No harm in asking God for a sign to help with your faith.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hyzepher


    I always wondered why God created Earth at all. Why would he create an environment where we were tested and only the good would progress to heaven.

    Why not just let everyone into heaven from the start. Why not create a situation where we all worshiped him, were true to the faith and pandered to his every need?

    Why the need for the test in the first place? A test designed to ensure that at least some failed and an environment where man's own flaws were destined to make the Earth and more and more less appealing.

    2000 years ago he sent a messenger and maybe then the people had the good sense to understand that maybe God wasn't as pure and kind as he makes out. Maybe they saw him for what he really was.

    Never really saw the point to Jesus. He was born but did nothing for the best part of his life. Then eventually roamed around with a bunch a guys preaching God's word = only to die on the cross to save us from our sins.

    But nothing changed after his death. The world just got on with the same old sh*t as before. If anything it was worse. I'd say more people celebrated his crucifixion than denounced it.

    I would say that there is no situation where any type of messenger from God would be taken seriously in the world we live in today. For all we know he has sent messengers already and they've been ignored - there's a guy outside walking the streets now with a banner sound his neck that you could go out and talk with if you want - he knows!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    Hyzepher wrote: »
    I always wondered why God created Earth at all. Why would he create an environment where we were tested and only the good would progress to heaven.

    Why not just let everyone into heaven from the start. Why not create a situation where we all worshiped him, were true to the faith and pandered to his every need?

    Why the need for the test in the first place? A test designed to ensure that at least some failed and an environment where man's own flaws were destined to make the Earth and more and more less appealing.

    2000 years ago he sent a messenger and maybe then the people had the good sense to understand that maybe God wasn't as pure and kind as he makes out. Maybe they saw him for what he really was.

    Never really saw the point to Jesus. He was born but did nothing for the best part of his life. Then eventually roamed around with a bunch a guys preaching God's word = only to die on the cross to save us from our sins.

    But nothing changed after his death. The world just got on with the same old sh*t as before. If anything it was worse. I'd say more people celebrated his crucifixion than denounced it.

    I would say that there is no situation where any type of messenger from God would be taken seriously in the world we live in today. For all we know he has sent messengers already and they've been ignored - there's a guy outside walking the streets now with a banner sound his neck that you could go out and talk with if you want - he knows!


    99.9% of all animals that have ever lived are now extinct. That is alot of waste to reach a point where only one species (Homo Sapiens) are judged, for example on their sexual orientation, whether or not they are fit for eternal supervision in Heaven!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭The_Captain


    His message is basically telling you to be a good Catholic(not perfect) in order to get into heaven.


    Never accept the first offer, God is probably just low-balling you to see how much he can get away with.

    I'd hold out until he started offering the heaven package with flatscreens and tennis courts and whatever.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Far be it from me who was no religion to talk about God. But I do remember learning about the free will part in my childhood and thus learning that this life was not influenced by a God. So if one is stricken with Leukaemia or wins the lotto, it has absolutely nothing to do with a God, or ones beliefs in him or her. If a supreme intelligence creates life, life which is independent and free, life which is open to an infinite number of possible outcomes based on parentage, genetics, environment, location, ect. Then it is pretty pointless to wave one's fist in the air and shout at a cloud blaming him or her for the World's woes. Free will means it's up to us, free from interference, free from meddling and I find it even more ironic, when such shouting comes from non-believers like myself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭When the Sun Hits


    I'm not sure what I'd do if I met her.

    Boom.

    God's a woman.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqyixwqiCag


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭xLisaBx


    Shenshen wrote: »
    So you don't think god's omnipotent, then? He would not have been able to create a self-sustaining world without inflicting enormous suffering on its inhabitants?

    What's the point of worshipping him, then, if he clearly is unable to help?

    Without this enormous suffering, we would all die due to overpopulation. The weakest die off in natural selection.
    I don't worship, I'm atheist, I'm just showing how the other viewpoint works and how those of religious belief should be respected. The logic behind it is pretty sound.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    xLisaBx wrote: »
    Without this enormous suffering, we would all die due to overpopulation. The weakest die off in natural selection.
    I don't worship, I'm atheist, I'm just showing how the other viewpoint works and how those of religious belief should be respected. The logic behind it is pretty sound.

    It's only sound if you either assume that god couldn't create a world that wouldn't induce suffering, in which case he's not omnipotent.

    Or else he could have but didn't, in which case he's a bit of a prick and certainly not what I would call benevolent.

    I reserve judgement until god sees fit to explain his actions. ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,190 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    wylie wrote: »
    I did, he does. Started going to mass on Sundays. No harm in asking God for a sign to help with your faith.

    Catholic mass? If so, why catholic mass? Why not your nearest synagogue or mosque?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 462 ✭✭wylie


    I put out a fleece. He answered. So that church it is.....


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Far be it from me who was no religion to talk about God. But I do remember learning about the free will part in my childhood and thus learning that this life was not influenced by a God. So if one is stricken with Leukaemia or wins the lotto, it has absolutely nothing to do with a God, or ones beliefs in him or her. If a supreme intelligence creates life, life which is independent and free, life which is open to an infinite number of possible outcomes based on parentage, genetics, environment, location, ect. Then it is pretty pointless to wave one's fist in the air and shout at a cloud blaming him or her for the World's woes. Free will means it's up to us, free from interference, free from meddling and I find it even more ironic, when such shouting comes from non-believers like myself.
    While that is a fair point, shouldn't that also make 'thanking God' completely pointless, since one's own good fortune comes from their own free will, and not God doing well and looking after them?

    Yep Corvus, YOU know who I am talking about. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 28 Wexicanfan


    Beg for mercy!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    ... Your proof that this person is telling you the truth is they can tell you exactly what your loved ones who are in heaven are like and he can preform miracles. ...

    Proof that they have googled me or been through my dry recyclables wheelie bin maybe. Paul Daniels and David Blaine did miracles in front of peoples' faces but nobody wants to listen to them.
    OneArt wrote: »
    I'd contact Lord Asriel and join the rebellion against the Authority.

    The Quare Fella Himself? The Bearer of Light?

    I suppose if I was granted such an audience, I would ask to hear a few jokes.

    I mean this Creator is an entity who created the universe, a universe where some matter and energy composed self-aware entities with individual consciousness. Some of these then claim to speak on the Creator's behalf and some deny the existence of the Creator. There are no funnier jokes.


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