Pacquiao v Mayweather

cowzerp · 19-12-2012 10:14am

otto_26 wrote: »

Not at all i'm simply suggesting:

Hatton's 2009 performance was hampered by having to make 145 lbs against Mayweather very unfair of Mayweather to make Hatton the smaller man fight at 145 Ibs.

So what do you explain about de la Hoya been huge against Floyd and withered and barely able to move v Manny?! That was ridiculous draining of Oscar, cutting to most fighters is normal but not when it's cutting like Oscar had too, that extra weight cut was for a reason, not to make him lighter but to make him drained in both strength and speed and punch resistance.

walshb · 19-12-2012 10:55am

otto_26 wrote: »

Not at all i'm simply suggesting:

Hatton's 2009 performance was hampered by having to make 145 lbs against Mayweather very unfair of Mayweather to make Hatton the smaller man fight at 145 Ibs.

How can we take you serious when you insist that Hatton had to make 145 lbs? I already explained that this was not the case. He was allowed make weight up to 147 lbs.

TheNap · 19-12-2012 11:11am

walshb wrote: »

How can we take you serious when you insist that Hatton had to make 145 lbs? I already explained that this was not the case. He was allowed make weight up to 147 lbs.

I wonder what he thought of Floyd coming in a 148lbs for the fight with Cotto at 154lbs ?

walshb · 19-12-2012 1:18pm

"HOUSTON -- The fourth fight between Juan Manuel Marquez and Manny Pacquiao generated about 1.15 million buys on HBO PPV, Top Rank promoter Bob Arum told ESPN.com on Saturday.

Throughout the promotion for the fight, which took place last Saturday night at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, apparent fan fatigue resulting from their three previous bouts was evident, and after a bit of an admittedly slow promotion, Arum said that the pay-per-view projections were sluggish -- until the buys picked up significantly on the final day with a rush that he said helped push the fight into seven figures.

The final numbers were not in yet, but HBO did not dispute Arum's figure, which means the fight will generate in the neighborhood of $70 million in domestic television revenue.

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"We are happy. It's a very big success," Arum said Saturday morning, hours before his Nonito Donaire-Jorge Arce junior featherweight title fight was to air on HBO (9:30 p.m. ET/PT), along with a replay of Marquez-Pacquiao IV. "The number of buys on the last day was disproportionately large. We were tracking a lot less until the last day and then we did a land rush of business. It built and built."

Marquez knocked Pacquiao out in stunning fashion, landing a flush right hand with one second left in the sixth round of their welterweight fight. Marquez trails the all-time series 2-1-1, meaning a fifth fight in 2013 is likely.

The pay-per-view figure was an improvement over Pacquiao's fight with Timothy Bradley Jr. in June, in which Pacquiao lost his welterweight title on a tremendously controversial split decision. That fight did about 900,000 buys.

Marquez-Pacquiao IV did just a shade less than the third fight between them in November 2011. That fight did 1.25 million buys. Their second fight in 2008 did 407,000 buys and their first fight in 2004 was live on HBO, not on pay-per-view.

Marquez-Pacquiao IV likely will wind up doing equal or more in overall TV revenue than the third fight, however, because the fourth fight cost $59.95 and the third fight was $54.95, not to mention a higher cost to buy it in high definition.

Pacquiao's biggest pay-per-views are his third fight with Marquez and a bout with Oscar De La Hoya at about 1.25 million each; fights with Miguel Cotto and Shane Mosley at about 1.2 million each; and his Antonio Margarito bout and Marquez IV at about 1.15 million each.

Six of Pacquiao's last nine fights have topped 1 million buys. His last nine have done at least 710,000.

The fight is also the third time Marquez has been in a PPV that did more than 1 million buys -- Pacquiao III and IV plus his loss to Floyd Mayweather Jr. in 2009, which sold 1.1 million units.

Marquez-Pacquiao IV was also a big hit at the gate, generating $10,888,890 in revenue from the sale of 15,403 tickets, according to the Nevada State Athletic Commission. There were no tickets unsold and 908 complimentary tickets were given away.

The fight generated the 13th biggest gate in Nevada history, in between the 1996 rematch between Mike Tyson and Frank Bruno ($10,673,700) and Mayweather-Shane Mosley in 2010 ($11,032,100).

otto_26 · 19-12-2012 6:44pm

walshb wrote: »

How can we take you serious when you insist that Hatton had to make 145 lbs? I already explained that this was not the case. He was allowed make weight up to 147 lbs.

Ah God this is so hard.....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: CONCENTRATE will ya!!!!

Hatton is best at 140lbs the fact that he had to move up to 145lbs to suit the bigger man was hindering him let alone moving up to 147lbs.

You really think Hatton was a 147lbs fighter... No he wasn't. ANYTHING ABOVE 140lbs WAS A HINDERING HATTON. Especially when up against a bigger man.

Please say you understand this!!!

walshb · 19-12-2012 6:50pm

otto_26 wrote: »

Ah God this is so hard.....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: CONCENTRATE will ya!!!!

Hatton is best at 140lbs the fact that he had to move up to 145lbs to suit the bigger man was hindering him let alone moving up to 147lbs.

You really think Hatton was a 147lbs fighter... No he wasn't. ANYTHING ABOVE 140lbs WAS A HINDERING HATTON. Especially when up against a bigger man.

Please say you understand this!!!

Again, you seem to be struggling to get your point across. No need for the faces either. It's not too difficult.

Mayweather did not call out Hatton. Hatton called out Mayweather, who at that time was an established WW boxer. Mayweather was NOT a LWW boxer in 2007/2006.

The fight was at WW. This was because Mayweather was a WW. Hatton chose to move to WW to meet Mayweather. Also, Hatton had a couple of bouts as a WW prior to meeting Mayweather at WW.

Yes, Hatton above 140 lbs was not the same man as he was at 140 lbs. Who said otherwise, or who is arguing this? Also, the WW limit was more favorable to Mayweather, as it was Mayweather who was now a more natural WW. Again, nobody is arguing otherwise on this.

The point that I made that seems lost on you is that Hatton called out Mayweather, and Hatton moved to WW to meet Mayweather. Otherwise the fight would never have happened. Mayweather was not going to boil down to 140 lbs. That is ridiclulous.

otto_26 · 19-12-2012 6:56pm

walshb wrote: »

Again, you seem to be struggling to get your point across. No need for the faces either. It's not too difficult.

Mayweather did not call out Hatton. Hatton called out Mayweather, who at that time was an established WW boxer. Mayweather was NOT a LWW boxer in 2007/2006.

The fight was at WW. This was because Mayweather was a WW. Hatton chose to move to WW to meet Mayweather. Also, Hatton had a couple of bouts as a WW prior to meeting Mayweather at WW.

Yes, Hatton above 140 lbs was not the same man as he was at 140 lbs. Who said otherwise, or who is arging this? Also, the WW limit was more favorable to Mayweather, as it was Mayweather who was now a more natural WW. Again, nobody is arguing otherwise on this.

The point that I made that seems lost on you is that Hatton called out Mayweather, and Hatton moved to WW to meet Mayweather. Otherwise the fight would never have happened. Mayweather was not going to boil down to 140 lbs. That is ridiclulous.

Not at all i'm simply suggesting:

Hatton's 2009 performance was hampered by having to make 145 lbs against Mayweather very unfair of Mayweather to make Hatton the smaller man fight at 145 Ibs.

walshb · 19-12-2012 7:00pm

otto_26 wrote: »

Not at all i'm simply suggesting:

Hatton's 2009 performance was hampered by having to make 145 lbs against Mayweather very unfair of Mayweather to make Hatton the smaller man fight at 145 Ibs.

So, what was the alternative? Fight at 140 lbs? Would that not be unfair to Floyd having to boil down to a weight that he was finished with for 2 plus years?

otto_26 · 19-12-2012 7:15pm

walshb wrote: »

So, what was the alternative? Fight at 140 lbs? Would that not be unfair to Floyd having to boil down to a weight that he was finished with for 2 plus years?

Maybe 143lbs making it 50/50 fair for both fighters..

walshb · 19-12-2012 7:19pm

otto_26 wrote: »

Maybe 143lbs making it 50/50 fair for both fighters..

I can see your point. Still don't think Mayweather deserves criticising. Hatton deserves criticising for coming in 2 lbs light. Not that 2 lbs would have seen him victorious.

Halloween Jack · 19-12-2012 8:07pm

otto_26 wrote: »

Maybe 143lbs making it 50/50 fair for both fighters..

Nope, that fight was For a welterweight title. The weight limit for welterweight is 147, make fights at catchweights if you like but they should not be for titles, the weight classes have served us well for decades, the only reason to manipulate them is to gain an advantage for a fighter imo and is cynical, the weights are not something to be negotiated like ring size or glove weight.

megadodge · 19-12-2012 11:20pm

cowzerp wrote: »

So what do you explain about de la Hoya been huge against Floyd and withered and barely able to move v Manny?! That was ridiculous draining of Oscar, cutting to most fighters is normal but not when it's cutting like Oscar had too, that extra weight cut was for a reason, not to make him lighter but to make him drained in both strength and speed and punch resistance.

Hold it right there.

Yet again selective memory comes into play when it suits Mayweather supporters.

BEFORE the fight OSCAR came in for a lot of flak. Why?

Because people correctly viewed it as a cynical piece of matchmaking by DLH where he was taking advantage of the popularity of a much smaller man in order to gain a huge payday. It was regarded as more an 'event' than a legitimate boxing match. Pacman was just after having his ONE AND ONLY fight at LIGHTWEIGHT, having been making super-feather very comfortably beforehand.

An awful lot of boxing people were very critical of the matchup and I for one didn't even bother watching the match (that rarely happens) as I thought it was going to be mismatch - in OSCAR'S FAVOUR!! Can you imagine the uproar if DLH wanted Pacman to fight at LIGHT-MIDDLE!!!

I was stunned when I found out the result, as were the vast majority of knowledgable boxing people.

They are the facts surrounding the De La Hoya / Pacquiao fight. Don't try changing them to suit your argument.

Halloween Jack · 19-12-2012 11:38pm

megadodge wrote: »

Hold it right there.

Yet again selective memory comes into play when it suits Mayweather supporters.

BEFORE the fight OSCAR came in for a lot of flak. Why?

Because people correctly viewed it as a cynical piece of matchmaking by DLH where he was taking advantage of the popularity of a much smaller man in order to gain a huge payday. It was regarded as more an 'event' than a legitimate boxing match. Pacman was just after having his ONE AND ONLY fight at LIGHTWEIGHT, having been making super-feather very comfortably beforehand.

An awful lot of boxing people were very critical of the matchup and I for one didn't even bother watching the match (that rarely happens) as I thought it was going to be mismatch - in OSCAR'S FAVOUR!! Can you imagine the uproar if DLH wanted Pacman to fight at LIGHT-MIDDLE!!!

I was stunned when I found out the result, as were the vast majority of knowledgable boxing people.

They are the facts surrounding the De La Hoya / Pacquiao fight. Don't try changing them to suit your argument.

That is true to an extent and I can remember people talking of a mismatch etc.

It was probably because of all that talk that nobody anticipated the immense difficulty Oscar would have making 147 properly, he looked like a warmed up corpse.

cowzerp · 20-12-2012 10:00am

megadodge wrote: »

Hold it right there.

Yet again selective memory comes into play when it suits Mayweather supporters.

BEFORE the fight OSCAR came in for a lot of flak. Why?

Because people correctly viewed it as a cynical piece of matchmaking by DLH where he was taking advantage of the popularity of a much smaller man in order to gain a huge payday. It was regarded as more an 'event' than a legitimate boxing match. Pacman was just after having his ONE AND ONLY fight at LIGHTWEIGHT, having been making super-feather very comfortably beforehand.

An awful lot of boxing people were very critical of the matchup and I for one didn't even bother watching the match (that rarely happens) as I thought it was going to be mismatch - in OSCAR'S FAVOUR!! Can you imagine the uproar if DLH wanted Pacman to fight at LIGHT-MIDDLE!!!

I was stunned when I found out the result, as were the vast majority of knowledgable boxing people.

They are the facts surrounding the De La Hoya / Pacquiao fight. Don't try changing them to suit your argument.

Just because people thought it was cynical does not mean it was not cynical of Manny's people to drain the balls off Oscar-I don't see how your post is any way knocking Mayweather or his fans-De la Hoya probably did want an advantage on Mayweather as Manny did against De la Hoya, that's exactly my point-Both fought totally different opponents, De la hoya was not 142 or under since january 2007, and as far as i remember there was a clause he could only gain back a small amount too guaranteeing he would be dehydrated in the ring.

Watching De la hoya and how feeble and weak he was in there was really 1 of the saddest things i've ever seen in Boxing and it was deliberate is what makes it worse.

TheNap · 20-12-2012 10:58am

If you want to fight someone and you call them out publicly as Hatton did with Mayweather , then you have to fight them at their weight , its simple case closed . Also it is a lot easier to gain say 5lbs and maintain all your speed etc if your diet and training is done the right way than to cut 5lbs and maintain it .

walshb · 20-12-2012 11:01am

At the time Manny was seen as the underdog. There was not any real talk of draining etc. Only after Manny dominated the bout did folks throw this up. Anyway, there was talk that Oscar also failed to rehydrate come fight night. There was talk that he was below 150 lbs in the ring.

cowzerp · 20-12-2012 11:23am

walshb wrote: »

At the time Manny was seen as the underdog. There was not any real talk of draining etc. Only after Manny dominated the bout did folks throw this up. Anyway, there was talk that Oscar also failed to rehydarte come fight night. There was talk that he was below 150 lbs in the ring.

Failed to, was contracted not to you mean.

walshb · 20-12-2012 11:41am

cowzerp wrote: »

Failed to, was contracted not to you mean.

Not sure, Paul. I don't believe that Oscar was not allowed gain at least a few lbs. I am betting the limit was 10 lbs. That seems fair. I believe Oscar barely gained anything. Maybe 2 lbs. I remember at the time thinking that was crazy.

TheNap · 20-12-2012 11:46am

walshb wrote: »

Not sure, Paul. I don't believe that Oscar was not allowed gain at least a few lbs. I am betting the limit was 10 lbs. That seems fair. I believe Oscar barely gained anything. Maybe 2 lbs. I remember at the time thinking that was crazy.

Im pretty sure there must of been something in the contract .. Didnt Roach say that he could see from Oscars veins that fluid had to be taken from him the day before ?? Impossible to recover from something like that ... Just shows you boxing is all about the $$$$ . After 3 weeks in camp DLH should of pulled out of the fight knowing he had no chance in making the weight

walshb · 20-12-2012 11:48am

TheNap wrote: »

Im pretty sure there must of been something in the contract .. Didnt Roach say that he could see from Oscars veins that fluid had to be taken from him the day before ?? Impossible to recover from something like that ... Just shows you boxing is all about the $$$$ . After 3 weeks in camp DLH should of pulled out of the fight knowing he had no chance in making the weight

The contracted weight was 147 lbs. After this I am not aware of any clause which prevented Oscar from some decent rehydration. I recall Lampley on fight night being astounded that Oscar was apparently 148 lbs on fight night. Lampley and HBO never implied or stated that there was a fight night limit.

TheNap · 20-12-2012 11:55am

walshb wrote: »

The contracted weight was 147 lbs. After this I am not aware of any clause which prevented Oscar from some decent rehydration. I recall Lampley on fight night being astounded that Oscar was apparently 148 lbs on fight night. Lampley and HBO never implied or stated that there was a fight night limit.

Neither am i .. But still its not normal at all for a fighter no to load up come fight night .. Anyway just to change the topic a bit.. Mayweather seems to be fighting May 4th against Canelo or Guerrero .. Both will be good spectacles and entertaining 24/7'sI think Pacquaio will fight Marquez again , win and then retire

andrew241983 · 20-12-2012 11:57am

TheNap wrote: »

Neither am i .. But still its not normal at all for a fighter no to load up come fight night .. Anyway just to change the topic a bit.. Mayweather seems to be fighting May 4th against Canelo or Guerrero .. Both will be good spectacles and entertaining 24/7'sI think Pacquaio will fight Marquez again , win and then retire

yawn

walshb · 20-12-2012 11:57am

TheNap wrote: »

Neither am i .. But still its not normal at all for a fighter no to load up come fight night .. Anyway just to change the topic a bit.. Mayweather seems to be fighting May 4th against Canelo or Guerrero .. Both will be good spectacles and entertaining 24/7'sI think Pacquaio will fight Marquez again , win and then retire

It will be Guerrero.

walshb · 20-12-2012 12:02pm

megadodge wrote: »

I was stunned when I found out the result, as were the vast majority of knowledgable boxing people.

.

It wasn't so much the result but the manner of victory and the pathetic display from Oscar. He looked like a complete zombie in the ring. He was that bad. And Manny himself seemed surprised. Took it easy on him in parts of the fight. I was critical of Oscar. I was too harsh. He was suffering in there, and it wasn't just a bad day at the office either.

TheNap · 20-12-2012 12:09pm

walshb wrote: »

It will be Guerrero.

Would prefer Canelo

walshb · 20-12-2012 12:10pm

TheNap wrote: »

Would prefer Canelo

Me too. Guerrero is just too sluggish to beat Floyd. The added weight to Guerrero has slowed him down noticeably.

cowzerp · 20-12-2012 12:34pm

walshb wrote: »

Not sure, Paul. I don't believe that Oscar was not allowed gain at least a few lbs. I am betting the limit was 10 lbs. That seems fair. I believe Oscar barely gained anything. Maybe 2 lbs. I remember at the time thinking that was crazy.

Yes and that is ridiculous, That would be gained in a matter of mins after a weigh in-I'm pretty sure he had a clause which stopped him gaining back the weight, I also thought the commentators where discussing this before the fight.

No way Oscar with his experience just wouldn't bother rehydrating when he was clearly suffering and could not make 150 the fight before that and weighed 151 and paid money to opponent to keep fight on.

Cotto was solid against Floyd and 9lbs heavier and another shrivelled looking opponent versus Manny and hadn't weighed that light since 2006, Manny fought good opponents but most while they where zombies.

walshb wrote: »

Me too. Guerrero is just too sluggish to beat Floyd. The added weight to Guerrero has slowed him down noticeably.

I think this is the logical match, he is good and deserves a shot, and then it leaves the majot fight open for after this 1.

TheNap wrote: »

Would prefer Canelo

Reason i say that above is if Floyd beats Canelo then i think there is no point fighting Guerrero but after beating Guerrero this fight is still great, if anything Canelo could do with more experience.

Canelo will be the next superstar, Maybe the Floyd fight could be the 1 to introduce him really to the mainstream, if he wins then we have the new name of Boxing, If not i still think he will be soon after.

walshb · 20-12-2012 12:50pm

Surely Oscar would have came out and made it clear that he was not allowed gain much weight for fight night. I mean it would go a long way to explaining his really poor performance. The whole "he wouldn't want to be making excuses" does not explain why he wouldn't come out and tell us. And, surely someone would have came out with facts concerning this.

cowzerp · 20-12-2012 12:58pm

walshb wrote: »

Surely Oscar would have came out and made it clear that he was not allowed gain much weight for fight night. I mean it would go a long way to explaining his really poor performance. The whole "he wouldn't want to be making excuses" does not explain why he wouldn't come out and tell us.

Well if he intended on fighting again then maybe-if not it doesn't matter, plus it could have been in the contract that it was not to be talked about.

Ghost. · 20-12-2012 1:24pm

I never heard anything and cant find anything that suggests DLH was bound by contract no to rehytrate and gain weight before the MP fight. If that was the case it would be daft. Maybe he would have agreed to it because he was such a huge favourite to win but Im sure he would have came out about that to justify his poor performance if that was the case.

If I remember rightly Roach said that he had planned for Manny to stay away from DLH in the early rounds but when he seen the tracks in his arms in the ring he knew they had left rehydrating him to late so he told Manny to change tactics and jump all over him. I could be wrong.

I remember a lot of people were worried about MP getting seriously injured before the fight or spectical, myself included.
DLH was a sad sight that night, it was hard to watch such a great fighter have a night like that.

Ghost. · 20-12-2012 1:28pm

I never knew fighters were bound by contract not to gain weight after the weigh in. I thought they just had to make weight and then when they rehydrate they could come in at a higher weight.
I guess every day is a school day.

cowzerp · 20-12-2012 1:32pm

Ghost. wrote: »

I never heard anything and cant find anything that suggests DLH was bound by contract no to rehytrate and gain weight before the MP fight. If that was the case it would be daft. Maybe he would have agreed to it because he was such a huge favourite to win but Im sure he would have came out about that to justify his poor performance if that was the case.

He made a fortune off this fight-he was the biggest winner of all, This leaving it to late to rehydrate stuff is ridiculous!!

When dehydrated you do be down up to 10% of your weight, no way he just didn't bother or forget to do this-I've cut weight like this many times and i can tell you now you do be dying for fluids, 1-2 lbs gain in fluids in 24 hours is a joke and could have been achieved in minutes, not to mention the carbs etc he would have ate and the glycogen storage that occurs then, He did not do any of this and that's why he looked frail and was weak and slow.

Is it because he is stupid or he stuck to the contract rather than lose Many Millions?!

Ghost. · 20-12-2012 1:56pm

If I remember rightly Roach said that he had planned for Manny to stay away from DLH in the early rounds but when he seen the tracks in his arms in the ring he knew they had left rehydrating him to late so he told Manny to change tactics and jump all over him. I could be wrong.

I did say I could be wrong. But I thought thats what Roach said about DLH cutting weight on the night.

When dehydrated you do be down up to 10% of your weight, no way he just didn't bother or forget to do this-I've cut weight like this many times and i can tell you now you do be dying for fluids, 1-2 lbs gain in fluids in 24 hours is a joke and could have been achieved in minutes, not to mention the carbs etc he would have ate and the glycogen storage that occurs then, He did not do any of this and that's why he looked frail and was weak and slow.

Ya, I know all that how to cut weight and rehydrate and the the effects it has on the body and how unplesant it is. But what I didnt know was that fighters like in DLHs case can be contracted not to fully rehydrate or to put on weight after the weigh in. Im surprised I havent came across it before or heard it mentioned or criticised.

Ya I know how well he did from it financially, but I still find it hard to believe that him screwing up his cutting of weight or rehydrating was because of a contractual obligation and this part of the contract was never mentioned afterwards. You may be right but where did you hear about this in the contract?

cowzerp · 20-12-2012 2:15pm

Ghost. wrote: »

I did say I could be wrong. But I thought thats what Roach said about DLH cutting weight on the night.

Ya, I know all that how to cut weight and rehydrate and the the effects it has on the body and how unplesant it is. But what I didnt know was that fighters like in DLHs case can be contracted not to fully rehydrate or to put on weight after the weigh in. Im surprised I havent came across it before or heard it mentioned or criticised.

You can be contracted to do anything, all that means is you's have an agreement that certain things can't happen, I'm pretty sure it was discussed during the fight at the time.

Was definitely discusses before and after the fight

Ghost. · 20-12-2012 2:17pm

Fair enough. I just couldnt find it. I must brush up on me googling skills so.

cowzerp · 20-12-2012 2:25pm

Ghost. wrote: »

Fair enough. I just couldnt find it. I must brush up on me googling skills so.

I can't find the facts myself bud so all speculation, But gaining 1-2 lbs when been so severely dehydrated would be pure stupidity if it was by choice, De la hoya is a smart man.

walshb · 20-12-2012 2:32pm

cowzerp wrote: »

I can't find the facts myself bud so all speculation, But gaining 1-2 lbs when been so severely dehydrated would be pure stupidity if it was by choice, De la hoya is a smart man.

I can see your point here, but conversely, there was no real mention of a contracted weight or agreement to be a certain weight on fight night. Nothing I can find to suggest or even hint that Oscar was not allowed gain a few lbs at least. I am aware that there can be agreements that a 10 percent allowance in increase is permitted. I can only assume that Oscar and his team screwed up. Maybe Oscar did drink and eat sufficiently, but maybe it ran out of him due to some medical issue at that time?

otto_26 · 20-12-2012 3:10pm

What I don't understand on this thread is that a lot of posters seem to know what their talking about but when it comes to MP they seem to only understand weight and anything else they can mustard up over his victories...

I haven't read many posts that suggests, Manny was just too good, he was too fast, he was too skilful, he got his tactics for the fight just right, his movement was too good, he's just one of the best of all time...

I just find it strange that anyone with real knowledge of the sport wouldn't be adding these opinions into their after thoughts of a Manny fight....

walshb · 20-12-2012 3:13pm

otto_26 wrote: »

What I don't understand on this thread is that a lot of posters seem to know what their talking about but when it comes to MP they seem to only understand weight and anything else they can mustard up over his victories...

I haven't read many posts that suggests, Manny was just too good, he was too fast, he was too skilful, he got his tactics for the fight just right, his movement was too good, he's just one of the best of all time...

I just find it strange that anyone with real knowledge of the sport wouldn't be adding these opinions into their after thoughts of a Manny fight....

Not saying that you think that I am one of these posters. Heres is my take regardless:

I for one think Manny is a hell of a talent. I think he beats Cotto no matter what weight Cotto is, Margarito the same, and I have posted about this. At WW in his first few fights he was a ball of ferocity. Sometimes folks wanna' denigrate or make ecsuses for one fighter to bolster another. I also mentioned this a few pages back. But, either way, we are all entitled to factor in as much as we can to get our points across.

cowzerp · 20-12-2012 3:27pm

otto_26 wrote: »

What I don't understand on this thread is that a lot of posters seem to know what their talking about but when it comes to MP they seem to only understand weight and anything else they can mustard up over his victories...

I haven't read many posts that suggests, Manny was just too good, he was too fast, he was too skilful, he got his tactics for the fight just right, his movement was too good, he's just one of the best of all time...

I just find it strange that anyone with real knowledge of the sport wouldn't be adding these opinions into their after thoughts of a Manny fight....

When the lads he fought are worse than ever then questions can be asked, Nobody is saying Manny was not good/great, What people are saying is his opponents may not and in the case of De la hoya where certainly hampered by making unrealistic weights.

Weight draining to me is a Manny/Roach tactic

walshb · 20-12-2012 3:34pm

I would argue that Cotto was as good as ever until he got nailed hard. I don't think a 146 or 147 Cotto does much better. He was dominated. I personally think that folks using weight as some factor in that fight is weak.

Margarito was never beating Manny. Never. Margarito is a punchbag. Mosley showed this. A stale and past it Mosley.

ooPabsoo · 20-12-2012 4:15pm

I'd put my money on Mayweather fighting Guerrero in May, followed by Alvarez in September( After an Alvarez/Cotto fight ).

I'd love to see Trout face Alvarez before then - Trout would be a seriously hard fight for Canelo, which is why I can't really see it happening + there'd be more money in a Cotto/Alvarez fight. It's a shame really, Trout/Alvarez has the makings to be a cracking fight - and would really show us what Alvarez is made of, seeing as he hasn't really been tested as of yet.

walshb · 20-12-2012 4:21pm

If anthing Floyd should want to meet Alvarez earlier rather than later. Floyd is slipping. Still fine, but I wouldn't expect him to be as sharp in late 2013 as he was in mid 2012.

Floyd will not meet Alvarez IF Alvarez keeps improving. Floyd probably wouldn't face Alvarez today. I am not criticising Floyd for this. I wouldn't blame him for avoiding that fight. I do not see Floyd meeting Alvarez at all.

supackofidiots · 20-12-2012 4:26pm

Mayweather v Alvarez is now the biggest fight to be made in boxing. I expect it to be in May. Floyd knows he beats Guerrero with his eyes closed, I just can't see him getting out of bed for that fight.

It's been a great year for the sport of boxing, the sport we all know and love.

TheNap · 20-12-2012 4:36pm

It makes more sense for Mayweather to fight Canelo in May.... It would be huge and he is better off fighting him earlier .... Have Guerrero fight before him on the undercard giving him more exposure for their fight in September ..

Ghost. · 20-12-2012 4:39pm

If anthing Floyd should want to meet Alvarez earlier rather than later. Floyd is slipping. Still fine, but I wouldn't expect him to be as sharp in late 2013 as he was in mid 2012.

I agree but I think its more a case of Alvarez improving rather than Floyd slipping all that much in a year. I think he will still be much the same.

Floyd knows he beats Guerrero with his eyes closed, I just can't see him getting out of bed for that fight.

With the way he manages his money Id say having to pay the bills will get him out of bed for it.

walshb · 20-12-2012 4:51pm

Ghost. wrote: »

I agree but I think its more a case of Alvarez improving rather than Floyd slipping all that much in a year. I think he will still be much the same.

With the way he manages his money Id say having to pay the bills will get him out of bed for it.

Exactly. What got him out of bed (after 21 months out) to meet JMM? He surely knew that he'd beat JMM with his eyes closed. I knew he would, and the fight bore that out! Guerrero is no different to JMM.

walshb · 20-12-2012 6:57pm

BTW, regarding Floyd and his money management, what leads folks to believe that he's silly with his management, or reckless? Sure, I know he gamble a lot, but he has it to gamble. He must be worth tens of millions.

Maybe he owes taxes, but many people who are wealthy and managing fine owe taxes. I personally think that he comes across as shrewd and clever with his money. He's in charge of his life in many ways.

I would not doubt that he's fighting for the money, but I would doubt that he's fighting because he needs the money. I know he seems very materialistic, but I doubt very much that he's in any financial trouble.

ooPabsoo · 20-12-2012 7:01pm

Who do you lads see Trout facing next? I thought he was very impressive against cotto, and deserves a big fight - but I just can't see him getting it any time soon.

Frank Bullitt · 20-12-2012 10:46pm

walshb wrote: »

BTW, regarding Floyd and his money management, what leads folks to believe that he's silly with his management, or reckless? Sure, I know he gamble a lot, but he has it to gamble. He must be worth tens of millions.

Maybe he owes taxes, but many people who are wealthy and managing fine owe taxes. I personally think that he comes across as shrewd and clever with his money. He's in charge of his life in many ways.

I would not doubt that he's fighting for the money, but I would doubt that he's fighting because he needs the money. I know he seems very materialistic, but I doubt very much that he's in any financial trouble.

Apparently he was done out of some scam for an investment, lost a lot of money on that one. He also bigs up how much he earns, he will claim that he got a much higher sum for a fight than he actually did, he said he got $20 million for the WWF thing he did, but he actually got $3.5 million.

His spending as well can't be comprehended, he is insane with his money, and his only source of income is boxing, he has no real big endorsements because no company will want to be associated with a woman beating racist, who can blame them?

Right now he might not be in any real issue, but he spends like Jay-Z or 50 Cent, but they have companies and business with a bankroll coming in, and it will always do that for them even while they sleep at night. For Mayweather, he has to box to get the cash in, and when he does it all goes, a few years ago he threw hundreds of thousands at fans for fun, and puts huge sums down for football games and basketball, and like any gambler he will lose more than he wins.

Pacquiao v Mayweather

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