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Multi-functional events centre (Budget 2014)

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12357…15

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    #122
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    clerk wrote: »
    Where ?
    Visit South Mall (as just one example) and count more than 30/40 spaces.


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    #123
    clerk
    Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭clerk


    Karl Stein wrote: »
    60,000 people can attend Croke Park without parking.

    Are you for real ?

    It's bedlam trying to get parking for Croke Park at a big match. You suggest the plan for a NEW site should copy the bedlam for already built sites.


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    #124
    clerk
    Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭clerk


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    Visit South Mall (as just one example) and count more than 30/40 spaces.

    mate you're obviously not from the City - lt's practically impossible to get a "free" spot on the South Mall at the weekend - 40 spaces on South Mall - you having a laugh.

    Used to try to get to the City years ago for the City cinema and you'd be very lucky to get 1 space and often none.

    Seriously if you're going to have a debate - try to keep it real.


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    #125
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    clerk wrote: »
    You suggest the plan for a NEW site should copy the bedlam for already built sites.

    That's 60,000 people coming from other parts of the country. Do you think we could manage 5,000 primarily Cork people with our taxis, hackneys, buses, car parks, on-street parking and cycle lanes? Of course we could. It should be at the Beamish site in the heart of the city.

    You'd like to be able to drive into the event centre and watch events from your car wouldn't you?


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    #126
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    clerk wrote: »
    1] ok - but are they actually going to open. Nobody has said they will.
    And who has said they won't?
    I don't know, I'd imagine it's very likely they'll open.
    We don't need to spend unnecessary money on a another city centre car park which would just encourage further traffic chaos, the streets of Cork can't handle it.
    clerk wrote: »
    2] l'd walk 15-20 minutes no bother but l'll be accused of being sexist here but l don't know a woman that would walk 15-20 minutes in the high heels and all the rest for a night out. Ain't going to happen.
    Visit the O2 sometime, they manage there.
    And it is sexist to suggest they couldn't walk 15-20mins (not all wear high heels, those that do they are well used to them, many carry flats with them, ....).

    clerk wrote: »
    3] Not being smart but seriously waiting around in the pissing rain springs to mind.
    The rain may be an issue, but welcome to Ireland/Cork. What do people do when they go to Musgrave/Thomand for a match/gig?


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    #127
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    clerk wrote: »
    mate you're obviously not from the City - lt's practically impossible to get a "free" spot on the South Mall at the weekend - 40 spaces on South Mall - you having a laugh.

    Used to try to get to the City years ago for the City cinema and you'd be very lucky to get 1 space and often none.

    Seriously if you're going to have a debate - try to keep it real.
    No, I'm not from the city.
    But I lived/parked in the city for a few years.

    If you want to be childish, then that's up to you. But it's not going to lead to a debate. Nor is being sexist.


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    #128
    evilivor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    clerk wrote: »
    City centre car parks are very expensive and l'm not sure they're open after midnight. The one by the Opera house closes. So how will that work for a late night event centre.

    On street parking. Where ? They're about 30/40 spaces in that general area !!! There's no parking on Patrick St now !

    Park and ride ? not exactly a plan for parking.

    Maybe everybody can cycle or walk in or even jog and we're sorted !!

    Another joke of a planning decision.

    Albert Quay would have been much better.

    No decision has been made. Albert Quay is still very much in the mix.


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    #129
    Balmed Out
    Registered Users Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭Balmed Out


    clerk wrote: »
    mate you're obviously not from the City - lt's practically impossible to get a "free" spot on the South Mall at the weekend - 40 spaces on South Mall - you having a laugh.

    Used to try to get to the City years ago for the City cinema and you'd be very lucky to get 1 space and often none.

    Seriously if you're going to have a debate - try to keep it real.

    Ahm I was actually going to ask earlier have you even been to Cork city, if youre out by eight its very easy to get on street parking and regardless of the time its easy on any night but Saturday. The beamish site is by far the easiest area to get to for those living in cork city or those who would be staying overnight.


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    #130
    zetalambda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 822 ✭✭✭zetalambda


    The saga continues:

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cork-events-centre-plans-in-turmoil-as-developer-pulls-out-274437.html


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    #131
    ComeraghBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 954 ✭✭✭ComeraghBlue


    we could end up with neither of them now


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    #132
    evilivor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    ComeraghBlue wrote: »
    we could end up with neither of them now

    Yes. There needs to be an opearator involved with the tenders and, now that the main credible operator has withdrawn from the process, the whole project is in jeopardy.


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    #133
    Michael..
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭Michael..


    It's my understanding that Heineken have an operator on board. How else would they have submitted the documents ?


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    #134
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    ComeraghBlue wrote: »
    we could end up with neither of them now
    evilivor wrote: »
    Yes. There needs to be an opearator involved with the tenders and, now that the main credible operator has withdrawn from the process, the whole project is in jeopardy.

    Talk about jumping to conclusions.The Leeds and Berlin Arena's that Bam have built in recent years are operated by AEG and SMG.Who said Live Nation were Bam's definite and only choice?.

    So if O'Callaghan is gone,well done Brewery Quarter.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anschutz_Entertainment_Group
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMG_(property_management)


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    #135
    evilivor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    Michael.. wrote: »
    It's my understanding that Heineken have an operator on board. How else would they have submitted the documents ?

    Live Nation was set to operate whichever Cork event centre received the go-ahead for State funding.

    A spokesperson for O’Callaghan Properties said they were not in a position to submit a tender because of the non-participation of the operator Live Nation in the process.

    “There is a specific requirement under the tenders conditions for an operator to be involved and to provide signed covenants for a tender to be accepted,” the spokesperson said.

    The second bidder, Bam and Heineken at the Beamish site, have submitted a tender however without an operator on board it is not known where the process will now go.

    The Heineken and Bam bid will be examined over the weekend by the consultants PwC who were due to make a recommendation to Cork City Council next week.

    If a new operator is required it could add months to the process to develop an event centre for the city.


    http://www.eveningecho.ie/2014/07/05/city-event-centre-plan-turmoil/


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    #136
    Flesh Gorden
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Flesh Gorden


    Well it's a shame that O'Callaghan were unable to place the final tender application.

    From a logistics stand point I had been trying to weigh up both sites:


    Parking:

    Crawford:

    - Wandsford Quay Multi-Storey: - Vital spot, although queuing from the St. Als direction would block access to Washington Street for people wanting to turn left, but with only one lane now by the Cathedral, it may cause gridlock further back along French Quay/Proby's Quay.

    - Old Sir Henry's Site: - decent short term drop off site which is empty by evening, but too small considering the size of the venue.

    - Plus it's almost a guarantee that people will try and park as close as possible to the venue and will end up abandoning their cars in the new cycle lanes, no matter how good people's intentions appear to be at this stage.


    Alberts Quay:

    - City Hall: - Really good spot, queuing not really a problem to traffic with the extra lanes beside it

    - Monahan Road: - The last large area of free parking left in the city; empty by 6pm.

    - Privately owned site on Centre Park Road: - Odd opening hours, but they'd hardly miss out on an opportunity like nearby large concerts.

    - Kennedy Quay: - Vast empty area that could be used on event nights which has been used very well last year during Rebel Week without any disruption to

    - Victoria Road (before the roundabout) - has enough space for larger coaches and taxis to park without causing any disruption on cars using the road.


    Clearing the Crowds:

    My main concern now that I've put a bit of thought into it is can the Crawford site handle 8,000 people exiting an event without the nearby streets having to be closed off to all traffic.

    The Albert Quay area has been host to both the Cannonball motoring event and the Rebel Week celebrations over the past few years where the only disruption to traffic was about 30 mins when the Cannonball cars were being escorted into the old bonded warehouse along with the crowds who followed.

    And as we've seen with the Marquee gigs, taxis will try to get as close as possible after, plus you may have a number of private coaches waiting for people along with people driving in to collect friends and family.


    Given it's proximity to the bus station and visibility from the proposed new train station entrance, the Albert Quay site would have cleared a larger number of people off the streets quicker as they won't have to walk through the city centre to get back onto public transport.

    Assuming events will end at 11pm, The South Main street and Washington Street areas are already getting busy by that time on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays with the number of nightclubs in the area. Add an extra 8,000 people into the mix and it's going to get very interesting.


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    #137
    Fabio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭Fabio


    I wonder why Live Nation pulled out of the bid(s)? Seems no one knows just why as of yet...


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    #138
    evilivor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    Fabio wrote: »
    I wonder why Live Nation pulled out of the bid(s)? Seems no one knows just why as of yet...

    According to the Irish Examinet they expressed concerns about certain terms attached to the investment of public money in the project.

    There is speculation that the BAM/Heineken may not be valid without Live Nation Ireland on board - having an operator as part of the bid is a legal requirement - and they proceeded without one, O'Callaghan having pulled out as they also, had no operator on board.


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    #139
    CHealy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭CHealy


    Has there been any thought given to the fact that Heiniken/BAM are huge companies who might have back up operators on board?


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    #140
    evilivor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    CHealy wrote: »
    Has there been any thought given to the fact that Heiniken/BAM are huge companies who might have back up operators on board?

    They didn't have one in the bid.


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    #141
    rebs23
    Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭rebs23


    Fabio wrote: »
    I wonder why Live Nation pulled out of the bid(s)? Seems no one knows just why as of yet...
    All the reports say the conditions in the tender.
    There has been speculation that they were very onerous.


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    #142
    Fabio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭Fabio


    I'd love to see the conditions and see what the actual objection was. This could well result in nothing happening at all... :(


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    #143
    Pitcairn
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Pitcairn


    I'd say the longer we don't hear anything the better. If the Bam & Heineken proposal really is invalid then it shouldn't take the long for the expert panel to reject it.
    However if they spend a while examining it hopefully it means there talks are taking place with Live Nation to resolve whatever issues they have.
    I guess we'll find out before that Council meeting on Monday.


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    #144
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    rebs23 wrote: »
    All the reports say the conditions in the tender.
    There has been speculation that they were very onerous.

    After the "Event Centre" in Mahon Point, is it any wonder that the conditions are somewhat onerous? If €16m is being given to/invested in* this project, you'd expect that investment to be safeguarded.

    * actually, does anyone know how the public funds would work? Is it a once-off injection of funds with conditions? Does the Government and/or council buy a stake in the new business?


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    #145
    evilivor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    Pitcairn wrote: »
    I'd say the longer we don't hear anything the better. If the Bam & Heineken proposal really is invalid then it shouldn't take the long for the expert panel to reject it.
    However if they spend a while examining it hopefully it means there talks are taking place with Live Nation to resolve whatever issues they have.
    I guess we'll find out before that Council meeting on Monday.

    But if they continue with the BAM tender, who proceeded even though they don't have an operator on board, it would be unfair on O'Callaghan, who didn't.

    O'Callaghan followed procedure, BAM didn't.

    This could all end up in the High Court.


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    #146
    calnand
    Registered Users Posts: 717 ✭✭✭calnand


    That was one of the issues of the Investment being made by the City Council, at present they are one of the biggest funders of the Opera House, and by investing in the event centre they would potentially be taking away business away from the Opera House, but the Opera House can only hold around 1000(seated, not sure about standing) whereas the new venue would hold in excess of 5000. These are two completely different venue sizes for potential acts to choose.


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    #147
    Pitcairn
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Pitcairn


    evilivor wrote: »
    But if they continue with the BAM tender, who proceeded even though they don't have an operator on board, it would be unfair on O'Callaghan, who didn't.

    O'Callaghan followed procedure, BAM didn't.

    This could all end up in the High Court.

    Well I assume the Council and the expert panel won't proceed unless they have legal advice that the Bam proposal is legit, we'll have to wait and see.

    But I agree with you, it'll probably end up in the High Court.


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    #148
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    I did'nt know that the O2 in Dublin was owned by Live Nation.Did they feel they were getting a raw deal to operate here and this arena could effect their crowds in Dublin?.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_O2_(Dublin)

    For what its worth,the Odyssey Arena in Belfast is operated by SMG.


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    #149
    evilivor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    Rhys Essien wrote: »
    I did'nt know that the O2 in Dublin was owned by Live Nation.Did they feel they were getting a raw deal to operate here and this arena could effect their crowds in Dublin?.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_O2_(Dublin)

    For what its worth,the Odyssey Arena in Belfast is operated by SMG.

    Livenation also operate the Bord Gais Energy theatre in Dublin.


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    #150
    BUNK1982
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982


    I would say that the BAM/ Heinken bid could overcome LiveNation withdrawing easier than O'Callaghan. They already run a similar venue in Amsterdam - the Heineken Music Hall.

    It would be a shame if the project was shelved.


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    #151
    evilivor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    BUNK1982 wrote: »
    I would say that the BAM/ Heinken bid could overcome LiveNation withdrawing easier than O'Callaghan. They already run a similar venue in Amsterdam - the Heineken Music Hall.

    It would be a shame if the project was shelved.

    The Heineken Music Hall in Amsterdam is run by LiveNation.


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