Lack of new routes at Cork airport

08-11-2014 7:25pm

rebs23 wrote: »

So really notharrypotter what is your motivation for posting on here when really you seem only concerned with the DAA and Dublin airport and justifying the massive state subsidy that was given to Shannon.
It remains a fact irrespective of the so called crumbling state property portfolio simply given to Shannon and the complete debt write off given to Shannon this decision has completely undermined a state airport. It is resulting in Cork airport being unable to compete with the zero charge Shannon is now able to offer.
It is unfair competition and the state intervention to save Shannon was worth several hundred million euro no matter what way you look at it.
Cork Airport should get a similar deal.
Why can't it get a similar deal and why should it not get a similar deal?
The real reason seems to be a decision to prop up Shannon by the former Minister Varadkar as he needs a support base outside Dublin to get the leadership of FG.
The other reason is that the DAA need Cork Airport as an asset on its balance sheet after all the heavy investments in T2 Dublin and New terminal in Cork.
For someone who has no interest in Cork Airport you seem to have a keen interest in coming onto a Cork forum and not dealing with the real issue which is how can you justify giving one former state airport a subsidy worth several hundred million euro which results in another state airport being unable to compete as a result of that state subsidy?

Simply because the shannon lobby fanboys hunt in packs, same crew on all the boards defending SNN interests. One would almost think they work at Shannon airport

, you can't be upsetting the cosy arrangement that SNN have :eek: . Its in Shannons interest for Cork and Knock and Kerry to close....with government policy and repeated noncompetitive taxpayer bailouts for Shannon they just might.

Dannyboy83 · 08-11-2014 10:59pm

notharrypotter wrote: »

Yes but what level.

Sunday Business post Article.

I accept DAA kept €100 million of Shannon s debt which was Shannon's total debt.

My point is that the DAA offered Cork a higher amount of a write off in cash terms €110 million of the €220 million total.

The issue at hand at the time was how much debt could the DAA sustain and facilitate future expansion at Dublin from its own borrowing.

I believe the issues at one time or another are/were

- €200m debt resulting from the construction of T2
- pensions
- Political considerations

http://www.finfacts.ie/irelandbusinessnews/publish/printer_1000article_10009164.shtml
Cullen also confirmed that he met Fianna Fail backbench TDs this morning who fear a decision in relation to the debt of Cork Airport, will lose them votes at the forthcoming general election. The Minister said that he briefed them on his position and said that it was still possible for Cork Airport to be debt free if it wished to be.

notHarryPotter wrote:

From the national perspective the borrowing ability of the DAA is critical.

Dublin airport is the main airport in Ireland and all focus will be on it.

Whatever scraps leftover will be shared (fought over) by the other airports.

Nobody disputes Dublin's importance as an international hub

http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/files/publications/aviation/english/draft-national-aviation-policy/draft-aviation-policy.pdf
Dublin Airport is the only airport in the State which could be
described as critical to national business and tourism needs. It handles 80% of all passengers into
and out of the State and 85% of air freight.

& it's importance is only magnified by Cork's strangulation.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/us-flights-from-cork-face-barriers-234132.html
Efforts are being made to secure a transatlantic carrier to operate a route from Cork, but there are significant barriers, according to the chairman of the Dublin Airport Authority, Pádraig Ó Ríordáin.

He added that, from an airline’s perspective, such a service from Cork would merely be luring passengers from Shannon and Dublin.

This was part of the reason for the development of Cork & Shannon as counterweights, according to the National Spatial Strategy

http://nss.ie/pdfs/Completea.pdf

The growing strength of the other existing Gateway cities of Cork, Limerick/Shannon, Galway and Waterford suggest
that there is potential for seeking their concerted and co-ordinated development as a counterweight to the pull
eastwards on the island. In the longer term, the dynamics of certain other cities and towns, particularly in the
Northwest, point to ways in which this counterweight could be strengthened further

Of the regional cities, Cork has the most immediate potential to be developed to the national level scale required to
complement Dublin. The Cork Area Strategic Plan (CASP) sets a positive agenda for proceeding in this direction,

Cork's population growth also far surpassed the predicted 2020 population growth by 2011, yet passenger numbers have declined every year since 2008

As part of the National Development Plan, Cork and Shannon were considered key strategic developments

https://www2.ul.ie/pdf/932500843.pdf
Shannon and Cork Airports are key infrastructure in their respective NSS Gateway Centres. They are close
to significant population bases and will continue to have an important role in the future by facilitating direct
air services to as many commercially viable international locations as possible, as well as linkages to Dublin.
Both are therefore important instruments in the development of their respective regional economies. The
challenge for both Airports is to continue to meet their regional transport needs and to respond to the
growth of their regional economies. Both Airports have experienced significant passenger growth in recent
years and there is the potential for further growth. Significant investment has been made in developing
passenger facilities at Shannon in recent years.

Work was undertaken to increase capacity at both Cork and Shannon,
i) to promote regional development & tourism
ii) to alleviate some of the pressure on Dublin.

As of 2013, with excess capacity at T2, it seems the goalposts were once again moved to merely promoting tourism

http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/files/publications/aviation/english/draft-national-aviation-policy/draft-aviation-policy.pdf
Cork and Shannon Airports
The size and location of Dublin Airport distinguishes it from the other State airports. However, Cork
and Shannon have other advantages and must develop their business potential accordingly. Tourism
development has a key role to play in this context and both airports also play a key gateway role for
businesses in their regions, especially multinationals.
Shannon is also important for connecting traffic with encouraging increases in transit and transfer
traffic facilitated by the convenience of Shannon‘s single-terminal transfer capacity.
Cork and Shannon Airports are ideally located as Gateways to some of the premier tourism
destinations. Given the natural attractions of these areas and the tourism development already in
place, inward directed tourism can be the key economic driver

Mr Varadkar stated: “We need more people to visit Cork. Unfortunately, it is largely an outbound airport.”

He pointed out that the DAA established the Cork Airport Development Council at his request: “Its remit is to pull the interests of the region together, try to develop the airport and give people more reasons to visit the region and use the airport.”

Given the ongoing collapse, I'd suggest that strategy needs rethinking.

notHarryPotter wrote:

So by leaving the DAA with a total debt of €220 million on their books without the assets (new terminal) would adversely restrict the DAA's ability to raise funds.

It seems the DAA have been having no trouble raising funds!

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/daas-profits-to-hit-180m-as-economy-takes-upturn-30724848.html
DAA's profits to hit €180m as economy takes upturn

Perhaps this could be the golden moment Mr.Vardkar spoke of

Mr Varadkar said that while it is not the right time for Cork to become independent “it could be done when the time is right, and this legislation allows a mechanism for it”.

The Transport Minister said that independence for Cork “is not right for the DAA now because it carries a debt of €200m as a result of the new terminal, if it stayed with the DAA it would severely damage its balance sheet at a time when it needs to deal with pension issues.”

notHarryPotter wrote:

As the economy gradually improves and the improvement spreads to the regions then I would expect Air Traffic to grow once more.

In relation to the economy, I've posted the CSO statistics here for you:

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/ciprcd/censusofindustrialproduction-localunitsregionalandcountydata2011/#.VF5yAPmsV8E

In Ireland in 2011 the South-West region accounted for 36.2% or €36.7 billion of Irish industrial output.
Dublin as a region produced 18.9% or €19.2 billion worth of industrial gross output in 2011.

South-West, West and Mid-West regions had more persons engaged in foreign owned industrial units than Irish owned in 2011
Wages and salaries per person engaged in the Industry sector in Ireland in 2011 was highest in the South-West region at €44,800, while the Dublin region was next highest at €44,700.

Almost €7.9 billion was spent on wages and salaries by industrial units in Ireland in 2011. The South-West region had the highest total spend at €1.5 billion while the Dublin region spent €1.4 billion.
In 2011, County Cork had the highest value of gross output per person engaged in Ireland at €1.18 million. Mayo and Roscommon combined was the next highest at €0.78 million, while County Dublin was third in the rankings with €0.62 million per person.

notHarryPotter wrote:

As the economy gradually improves and the improvement spreads to the regions then I would expect Air Traffic to grow once more.

Based on the above, one could deduce the economy is not the primary driver behind the ongoing collapse of Cork Airport.

The national priority is now Dublin and this is not going to change.

Both Cork and Shannon have embarked on staff reductions and cost cutting.

Whether this will be sufficient long term remains to be seen.

It seems there is a fundamental mismatch between the governments strategy and the enduser reality.

The government approach is to somehow make the Airport more viable by encouraging tourism and inward flights.
We are witnessing the failure of that strategy:

Cork, weighed down by debt, cannot compete with Shannon which offers discounted charges to airlines.

The enduser reality is that the Airport has become useless to the extent that it is so poorly served, it serves merely as a taxi to the UK, thereby reducing both inward and outward business.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/declining-cork-airport-needs-new-direction-284203.html
a peak of 3.25m passengers in 2008, Cork airport looks set to drop to 2.1m this year. Shannon has seen a slight increase, from 1.3m passengers in 2012 to 1.4m last year. Dublin Airport handled 20.17m passengers in 2013 — up 6% on 2012. Cork has seen its passenger numbers slump by almost 5% since the start of the year alone, with July figures down almost 6%. That compares to a 15% increase in passenger figures at Shannon for the first six months of 2014.

However, if one delves behind the headline numbers, there are a number of factors which have lead to the decline at Cork.

The biggest impact between 2008 and now has been the loss of the Cork-Dublin route which, at its peak, accounted for half a million passengers per year.

In the last 12-18 months, it has been the loss of Wizz Air, which used Cork as its only Irish hub to a number of Eastern European locations and which accounted for 11% of the market. When Ryanair came in for a piece of its action, Wizz Air departed. With Wizz Air gone, Ryanair then moved those flights to Shannon. That is estimated to have cost Cork Airport 70,000 passengers this year so far, and will reach 150,000 by year end.

@Carnacalla, it looks like I was wrong about the Lithuania flights, based on the transfers, it does seem the business has shifted from Cork to Dublin/Shannon, rather than Stansted as I was suggesting.

JCX BXC · 09-11-2014 12:44am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Simply because the shannon lobby fanboys hunt in packs, same crew on all the boards defending SNN interests. One would almost think they work at Shannon airport , you can't be upsetting the cosy arrangement that SNN have :eek: . Its in Shannons interest for Cork and Knock and Kerry to close....with government policy and repeated noncompetitive taxpayer bailouts for Shannon they just might.

Always nice to have the knock supports to come in and insult the people who support their main competitor, Shannon. What was the point of your post?

Everyone had been making a fair argument, don't upset the thread. Repeated noncompetitive taxpayer bailouts? How many has their been?

As for the "its in Shannon's interest for cork, Kerry and knock to close" its the same as saying "its In corks interest for Shannon, Kerry and Waterford to close" and "its in Dublin's interest for all of the other Irish airports to close". It obviously is in the interests of all the airports for their competitors to close, that dosnt mean they will.

Shannon's "state aid" won't be as illegal when cork get their debt written off will it?

notharrypotter · 09-11-2014 10:40am

Ireland is an island on the edge of Europe.
Access is either going to be by land or sea.

This was part of the reason for the development of Cork & Shannon as counterweights, according to the National Spatial Strategy

Sadly that is no longer happening.

All attempts at regional development fail because of vested LOCAL political interests.

It is never going to work when you try put industry in every town and village.

For the strategy to work they should have stuck with the hubs but they didn't.

Outside of Dublin there is no critical mass to act as a counterweight.

The decision that Dublin is the main airport is done and the vast amount of future political capital (not money just emphasis/promotion) will be spent here.

The concept of a rising tide floats all boats doesn't work.

As the economy picks up air traffic outside of Dublin will slowly come back. But not to each airport at the same time.

Regarding the "Ministerial commitment" by Seamus Brennan to grant the debt free status to Cork.

This should be viewed like all political promises, true until the uturn is done.

So to move back on track.

Based on the above, one could deduce the economy is not the primary driver behind the ongoing collapse of Cork Airport.

Since the downturn began.

Shannon went from 3.6 million in 2006 to 1.4 million in 2013.
Cork went from 3million in 2006 to 2.4 million in 2013.
To look at the change in traffic at the rest of the airports outside of Dublin.
Knock went from 620,000 in 2006 to 665,000 in 2013.
Kerry went from 314, 000 in 2010 to 304, 000 in 2013.
Waterford went from 85, 000 in 2006 to 26, 000 in 2013.
Donegal went from 65,000 in 2008 to 33,000 in 2013.
Galway went from 248,000 in 2006 to 0 in 2013
Sligo went from ????? to 0 in 2013.

Dublin went from a high of 23.5 million in 2008 to a low of 18.5 million in 2010.

Everyone lost due to the downturn across Ireland as a whole. Regional variations matter but not as much when its a 3.5 hour bus ride from most major towns to Dublin.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoi...on-284203.html
a peak of 3.25m passengers in 2008, Cork airport looks set to drop to 2.1m this year. Shannon has seen a slight increase, from 1.3m passengers in 2012 to 1.4m last year. Dublin Airport handled 20.17m passengers in 2013 — up 6% on 2012. Cork has seen its passenger numbers slump by almost 5% since the start of the year alone, with July figures down almost 6%. That compares to a 15% increase in passenger figures at Shannon for the first six months of 2014.

The problem with living on a small island with too many airports is trying to find the natural traffic level for each.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoi...on-284203.html
a peak of 3.25m passengers in 2008, Cork airport looks set to drop to 2.1m this year. Shannon has seen a slight increase, from 1.3m passengers in 2012 to 1.4m last year. Dublin Airport handled 20.17m passengers in 2013 — up 6% on 2012. Cork has seen its passenger numbers slump by almost 5% since the start of the year alone, with July figures down almost 6%. That compares to a 15% increase in passenger figures at Shannon for the first six months of 2014.

Shannon lost 2 million passengers and seems to be finally levelling off.
Cork is still finding its natural level.

& it's importance is only magnified by Cork's strangulation

So from the numbers everyone has lost out.
There is no mad conspiracy to keep Cork down.

The DAA is a commercial company that listens to its political master but equally the political master listens to the DAA.

There will always be trade-offs but ultimately for the good of Ireland inc. Dublin must thrive.

The government approach is to somehow make the Airport more viable by encouraging tourism and inward flights.
We are witnessing the failure of that strategy:

The enduser reality is that the Airport has become useless to the extent that it is so poorly served, it serves merely as a taxi to the UK, thereby reducing both inward and outward business.

The problem I see is the population base is too small.
For a pure tourist destination (canary Islands) people fly there because they want to.
For any where else trying to get a mix you need either sufficient numbers of tourists or domestic users where the numbers combined will make the route viable.
There will always be traffic to the major UK cities from Ireland.
Beyond that the mix becomes critical.

Dublin will have sufficient domestic users to make the low tourist numbers enough to make many routes viable.

Cork/Shannon/Kerry/Waterford/Knock/Donegal will not have sufficient of either on many routes to justify 150+ seat airplane.

The issue of new business I believe will lag the recovery of Ireland and will be in a more measured form.
Routes for the sake of it will not likely happen.

Perhaps this could be the golden moment Mr.Vardkar spoke of

Currently the debt associated with the Cork is serviced within the DAA group so to all intents and purposes Cork is debt free.
Quite possibly but that will be a political decision most likely not taken until after the 2016 general election.

shnaek · 09-11-2014 11:41am

notharrypotter wrote: »

Cork is still finding its natural level.

Nothing natural about it when it's tied to Dublin. It will only find its natural level when it's independent.

09-11-2014 12:46pm

Its a pity one airport wasn't built between Cork and Limerick cities, it would of replaced Cork, Kerry, Waterford and Shannon airports into one decent airport.

It would have cost a lot less to construct than the terminals in SNN and Cork and a lot less to run than the four airports together. It would have had a good selection of routes year round due to the critical mass of people using it.

With four airports in a very small region( 1 hour drive between cork and shannon airports once the M20 is complete), Ryanair and others can play them all off against each other for lower landing fees.

Masala · 09-11-2014 1:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Its a pity one airport wasn't built between Cork and Limerick cities, it would of replaced Cork, Kerry, Waterford and Shannon airports into one decent airport.

It would have cost a lot less to construct than the terminals in SNN and Cork and a lot less to run than the four airports together. It would have had a good selection of routes year round due to the critical mass of people using it.

With four airports in a very small region( 1 hour drive between cork and shannon airports once the M20 is complete), Ryanair and others can play them all off against each other for lower landing fees.

Hi Mayomafia man..... couldas/ wouldas/ and shouldas ?? They could say the same for Knock....' shoulda' just put a motorway to Castlebar direct from Dublin M50 meeting in Athlone to meet the Galway motorway.

JCX BXC · 09-11-2014 2:00pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its a pity one airport wasn't built between Cork and Limerick cities, it would of replaced Cork, Kerry, Waterford and Shannon airports into one decent airport.

It would have cost a lot less to construct than the terminals in SNN and Cork and a lot less to run than the four airports together. It would have had a good selection of routes year round due to the critical mass of people using it.

With four airports in a very small region( 1 hour drive between cork and shannon airports once the M20 is complete), Ryanair and others can play them all off against each other for lower landing fees.

Shannon airport was the first transatlantic airport in the country, so weather your happy or not it should stay. As for cork, the country also needed that. If Sligo airport was actually able to handle traffic and jet air planes, that would of served many people in the north west. Waterford could be a regional airport. Kerry was a really pointless airport, all it does is hover up the government funds and traffic from the already struggling cork and Shannon airports. It should never of been built. Knock was really stupidly placed. Seriously? In the middle of nowhere! Its miles away from every town and the roads are terrible from the galway side.

This is just my opinion.

Shannon, Dublin and cork make a lot of economic sense, possibly Sligo and Waterford, but after that they are just wasters of government money.

I think the argument deserves to end now and actually start talking about cork again rather then cork vs every other airport in the country.

Masala · 09-11-2014 2:26pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

As for cork, the country also needed that.... Kerry was a really pointless airport, all it does is hover up the government funds and traffic from the already struggling cork and Shannon airports. It should never of been built. Knock was really stupidly placed. Seriously? In the middle of nowhere! Its miles away from every town and the roads are terrible from the galway side.

This is just my opinion.

I think the argument deserves to end now and actually start talking about cork again rather then cork vs every other airport in the country.

Kerry was a really pointless airport, all it does is hover up the government funds and traffic from the already struggling cork and Shannon airports.

.... What traffic has it taken from 'struggling' Cork. 2 weekly to HAHN?? Don't go down the government funds route... with your €220m new terminal built from DAA funds.

As for cork, the country also needed that....

.... wow that some argument.

I think the argument deserves to end now and actually start talking about cork again rather then cork vs every other airport in the country

.. agree... but not helped by above blinkered comments

09-11-2014 2:28pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

Shannon airport was the first transatlantic airport in the country, so weather your happy or not it should stay. As for cork, the country also needed that. If Sligo airport was actually able to handle traffic and jet air planes, that would of served many people in the north west. Waterford could be a regional airport. Kerry was a really pointless airport, all it does is hover up the government funds and traffic from the already struggling cork and Shannon airports. It should never of been built. Knock was really stupidly placed. Seriously? In the middle of nowhere! Its miles away from every town and the roads are terrible from the galway side.

This is just my opinion.

Shannon, Dublin and cork make a lot of economic sense, possibly Sligo and Waterford, but after that they are just wasters of government money.

I think the argument deserves to end now and actually start talking about cork again rather then cork vs every other airport in the country.

You're transparent posts are just making yourself look foolish once again Carn. All regular boards posters know about your pathetic incessant uninformed anti Knock postings. For an airport "in the middle of nowhere"its the only airport in the country that continued to increase right though the downturn,and that was without a bailout like SNN needed just to stay open. The reason for its success is that it is in the middle of the West/North West region that it is serving. This thread is not about Knock so you should stop bringing it up, maybe do that in all the other threads that you attack Knock in.

SNN is relevant to this thread as the MASSIVE tax payer bailout of shannon has jeopardized the future of Cork airport.

The point i was making about Cork(which is what this thread is about, Carn,) is that if it was built 50 miles North then SNN Kerry and Waterford would all be an irrelevance. An airport in the middle of the Munster region would be the airport of choice for the whole region, obviously that doesn't suit your agenda here.

lisasimpson · 09-11-2014 2:30pm

instead of fighting here over the whole Shannon and Cork time to maybe try a bit of people power. start lobbying the local td make a bit of noise etc

Masala · 09-11-2014 2:52pm

SNN is relevant to this thread as the MASSIVE tax payer bailout of shannon
has jeopardized the future of Cork airport.

Agree with MayoMafia here. There is no point in blaming the Regional Airports for Cork Airports lack of routes. Kerry & Waterford have taken nothing from Cork... in fact the opposite. Kerry lost its limited Manchester service as a result of a new SNN service by ALR tying it into the USA pre-clearance. As for blaming Knock for Cork's lack of success....I can't see it??

So what if Cork gets freedom from Dublin.... do they think Ryanair is going to pay €8 a pax direct to Cork??? Not a chance?? And what do they get when Ryanair come in .... more flights to the Sun. That is all Ryanair is offering at the moment. What good is that to the Cork Chamber/ Cork Business etc?? Maybe a Manchester (like in Shannon).... and then goodbye Stobart.

The grass is always greener on the other side!!

JCX BXC · 09-11-2014 2:55pm

Masala wrote: »

Agree with MayoMafia here. There is no point in blaming the Regional Airports for Cork Airports lack of routes. Kerry & Waterford have taken nothing from Cork... in fact the opposite. Kerry lost its limited Manchester service as a result of a new SNN service by ALR tying it into the USA pre-clearance. As for blaming Knock for Cork's lack of success....I can't see it??

You can blaim Kerry airport. If it wasn't their cork would be better and I agree knock dosnt affect cork.

Outkast_IRE · 09-11-2014 2:57pm

The summer schedule from aer lingus was cut back again for next year, the Cork - alicante flights which were year round at one stage 3-4 times weekly , and were march - november 2-3 times weekly the last few years are now back to may-october twice weekly. The funny thing is i have family on that flight fairly often and the plane was always full or nearly full. I wonder are they simply making a better profit with the plane on a different route.

JCX BXC · 09-11-2014 3:00pm

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

The summer schedule from aer lingus was cut back again for next year, the Cork - alicante flights which were year round at one stage 3-4 times weekly , and were march - november 2-3 times weekly the last few years are now back to may-october twice weekly. The funny thing is i have family on that flight fairly often and the plane was always full or nearly full. I wonder are they simply making a better profit with the plane on a different route.

With Ryanair reducing their Alicante service you would think aer lingus would at least Keep theirs the same.

On the up side Malaga is now 8 a week.

Masala · 09-11-2014 3:14pm

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

The summer schedule from aer lingus was cut back again for next year, the Cork - alicante flights which were year round at one stage 3-4 times weekly , and were march - november 2-3 times weekly the last few years are now back to may-october twice weekly. The funny thing is i have family on that flight fairly often and the plane was always full or nearly full. I wonder are they simply making a better profit with the plane on a different route.

That's what happens when Cork Airport management let Ryanair in on established routes. Have they not learned from Wizz to Poland, Aer Arann to Dublin...??? It eventually grinds airlines down. And as Harvey Norman says... 'When they're gone .. they're gone'!

Mumha · 09-11-2014 5:47pm

KCAccidental wrote: »

I always think that Germany is woefully under served relative to the amount of Germans that visit west cork and Kerry, As far as I know the Munich route seems to be successful. I have a good amount of German friends who visit from time to time. Those who live in the east tend to go through Dublin and those in the west go through Amsterdam to Cork. If a route in the western region opened up i think it would be massively popular.

Why not try to get germanwings to look at a Koln and Berlin route or something. Both places are good tourist destinations for Irish People and Cork gets to capture a fair few more incoming passengers.

Airlines are going to be reluctant to touch Cork Airport while Ryanair is allowed to ride roughshod over the airport.

Mumha · 09-11-2014 5:49pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

I remember Leo Varadkar saying earlier this year that they could not give cork independence because it would be loss making and not sustainable. I will try to find a link later.

He ignored the debt unjustly foisted on Cork Airport by the DAA, which is surprising as this was a FF doing.

Mumha · 09-11-2014 5:54pm

Masala wrote: »

That's what happens when Cork Airport management let Ryanair in on established routes. Have they not learned from Wizz to Poland, Aer Arann to Dublin...??? It eventually grinds airlines down. And as Harvey Norman says... 'When they're gone .. they're gone'!

Not that I have any time for Cork Airport management, they have no choice. If they stopped Ryanair from going onto any route they want, Ryanair would have them hauled up before the competition authority (European or otherwise). Which is what's wrong with the so called Competition Market, Ryanair are using Competition laws to be completely anti-competitive.

I fail to see why Cork Airport cannot issue an open tender to all airlines that whoever opens NEW routes, can have an exclusive on that route for a period of say, 3 years, providing they commit to operating in excess of a minimum of 5 return journeys each week (hopefully more).

KCAccidental · 09-11-2014 6:01pm

Mumha wrote: »

Airlines are going to be reluctant to touch Cork Airport while Ryanair is allowed to ride roughshod over the airport.

I know, especially a Lufthansa linked airline like Germanwings

KCAccidental · 09-11-2014 6:04pm

Trying to think of all the airlines forced out of Cork Airport in the last 10 years

Jet2
Wizz
Easyjet
BMI
FlyBE
Jetmagic

any others?

roundymac · 09-11-2014 10:18pm

The airline that flew to Bratislava, can't think of their name right now. FR have "farewell named airline" painted on one of their aircraft. Malev /Budapest, Czech/ Prague, the low cost division of LOT, I think Smartwings were their name.
SkyEurope, thats the name I could'nt think of. Also Central wings may have the correct name instead of Smart wings.

lostinsuperfunk · 09-11-2014 10:58pm

add:
bmibaby
Easyjet
Thomsonfly (probably not forced out, but left anyway)
JetMagic (forced out by Aer Lingus)
Probably a few charters too.

JCX BXC · 09-11-2014 11:23pm

lostinsuperfunk wrote: »

add:
bmibaby
Easyjet
Thomsonfly (probably not forced out, but left anyway)
JetMagic (forced out by Aer Lingus)
Probably a few charters too.

Easy jet and Bmi were already there.

Thomsonfly is still there just under different charters. There is a jetairfly there and Air Europa and Volotea chartered in. They are all the same company anyway.

And JetMagic forced about by Aer Lingus, its not like Aer Lingus have Ryanair Tactics, they dont force out airlines and then drop services that often.

KCAccidental · 09-11-2014 11:24pm

CSA Czech airlines

Mumha · 10-11-2014 10:53am

notharrypotter wrote: »

My point is that the DAA offered Cork a higher amount of a write off in cash terms €110 million of the €220 million total.

The issue at hand at the time was how much debt could the DAA sustain and facilitate future expansion at Dublin from its own borrowing.

From the national perspective the borrowing ability of the DAA is critical.

Dublin airport is the main airport in Ireland and all focus will be on it.

Whatever scraps leftover will be shared (fought over) by the other airports.

So by leaving the DAA with a total debt of €220 million on their books without the assets (new terminal) would adversely restrict the DAA's ability to raise funds.

Remember the DAA is a commercial state organisation but receives no funding from the taxpayer. In fact its a net contributor to the government coffers.

The DAA were given realised assets of €330m in return for making Cork Airport independent and debt free. They took the money and then reneged on debt. That is why Cork Airport is in the situation it is in.

Mumha · 10-11-2014 10:59am

Deleted User wrote: »

Simply because the shannon lobby fanboys hunt in packs, same crew on all the boards defending SNN interests. One would almost think they work at Shannon airport , you can't be upsetting the cosy arrangement that SNN have :eek: . Its in Shannons interest for Cork and Knock and Kerry to close....with government policy and repeated noncompetitive taxpayer bailouts for Shannon they just might.

True, it's always been the poor mouth, holding the party line. That said, the politicians down here are cretins (from all parties), and cannot see how vital it is for the southern region to have a vibrant Cork Airport.

Mumha · 10-11-2014 11:09am

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

The summer schedule from aer lingus was cut back again for next year, the Cork - alicante flights which were year round at one stage 3-4 times weekly , and were march - november 2-3 times weekly the last few years are now back to may-october twice weekly. The funny thing is i have family on that flight fairly often and the plane was always full or nearly full. I wonder are they simply making a better profit with the plane on a different route.

That's the end of our Easter hols then ! :mad:

corkonion · 10-11-2014 11:24am

This will be my last post in this thread as it is getting repetitious.
Today Ryanair will land 7 flights in Cork Airport, and 5 flights take off from there. Aer Lingus will land 17 flights there and have 16 take off's. No other Airline will fly into Cork Airport today..... or tomorrow ....or the next day. Competition has been killed off in Cork Airport and no foreign Airline flies scheduled flights into or out of Cork. It appears to me that Ryanairs policy in regard to Cork is to flood any competing Airlines routes until they blow them out, They then reduce/eliminate or transfer these routes to another Airport who have lower charges than DAA have in Cork.
Unless the political will is there to (a) Stop allowing anti competitive laws to be used to be anti competitive by Airlines, and (b) Give Cork Airport authorities independance from the DAA with a reasonable reduction of its Debt, then this debate will go on and on while the Airport reduces its facilities, reduces its flights and eventually becomes an unsustainable basket case.

As the DAA said, "theses an excellent Aircoach service to Dublin".

roundymac · 10-11-2014 11:44am

Unfortunatly EU competition law aids them in so much that they can't be stopped from doing it.

Lack of new routes at Cork airport

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