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Best way or exercises to burn FAT

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    #32
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    shikaakwa312 wrote: »
    Exactly you need to read more carefully, I posted it to you. Look at the time reference- it was posted like 10 secs after the GREAT. Plus, you asked me if i was up hear just to get up peoples backs and thats what i responded to. You need to read more carefully. Honestly go ahead and read what I said.

    Quotes are useful in showing who you are replying to. In this example I am replying to you. You can tell because I quoted you. You aren't backing any of your arguments up.


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    #33
    shikaakwa312
    Closed Accounts Posts: 49 ✭shikaakwa312


    Thats how I know you arent credible and now this has become personal. You attack me wrongly on a friggin name, are you joking? I figured you would be able to read, sorry about that.
    TO THE OP: Go to bodybuildingforum

    This thread will not produce you any results unfortunately because people are too sensitive, close-minded, and judgmental.


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    #34
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    shikaakwa312 wrote: »
    Thats how I know you arent credible and now this has become personal. You attack me wrongly on a friggin name, are you joking? I figured you would be able to read, sorry about that.
    TO THE OP: Go to bodybuildingforum

    This thread will not produce you any results unfortunately because people are too sensitive, close-minded, and judgmental.

    I figured you, as a top class ironman partaking nutrional - lecture attending - athlete, would be able to back up what you claim is true.

    This is a discussion forum, dont be surprised when people discuss the things you post, such as your misleading advise.


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    #35
    Will Heffernan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Will Heffernan


    I will start with your last erroneous statement first and work my way back up to the top.
    You should eat 5-6 nutritious meals a day and never be hungry for a training session and never go hungry afterwords. So your body will actually do the opposite of your hypothesis- it will stall your energy sources not letting you get the full effect and slow down your metabolism.
    Source: college soccer player had to go to various nutrition clinics and whatnot
    Jeukendrup AE, Jentjens R. Oxidation of carbohydrate feedings during prolonged exercise : current thoughts, guidelines and directions for future reseacrh. Sports Med (2000) 29 (6):407-24.

    This study actually took subjects that had at least 1 year of resistance training experience...which in these studies is a rarity...they had a roughly 300 calorie surplus and consumed 1.7g/kg of protein and this was divided over either 3 or 6 meals a day. The subjects had the same training program for 12 weeks and body composition and weight was measured...the group that actually gained the most muscle mass was actually the 3 meals a day group.

    Tipton KD et. al. Stimulation of net muscle protein synthesis by whey protein ingestion before and after exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinal Metab. (2007) 292 (1):E71-6

    In this study...subjects were either given 3 meals a day or 6 meals a day with identical protein and calorie intakes (does this sound familiar ) and absolutely no difference in nitrogen balance was found....the same study also looked at groups with varying protein distributions through out the day and again...no difference was found.


    Cribb PJ and Hayes A. Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise on skeletal muscle hypertrophy. Med Sci Sports Exerc. (2006) 38 (11):1918-25

    In this study guys were given 1800 calories and 118 grams of protein in either 1, 3 or 6 meals a day....results anyone? That's right...no differences at all were found in nitrogen balance....or weight loss or fat loss for that matter. In this very same study nutrient utilisation was was looked at under the same conditions and found that there was no difference between 1, 3 or 6 meals.

    It wasn't consider statistically relevant but the only group that showed any real difference was the group that had 1 meal a day...the difference being that the group that went the longest without food and was the hungriest actually had the greatest fat loss and highest metabolic rate.

    I could keep going but I want to give each of your erroneous points equal time and it is going to take me ages to correct your entire post like this.


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    #36
    ElWalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭ElWalrus


    Personally, I don't think eating 5/6 meals a day would have that much of an impact on your metabolic rate. Just reasoning it out, I couldn't see what kind of advantage that would have been to our ancestors during our evolution. Why punish the guys who could find food more easily by requiring them to find even more food.

    In a modern context, where the 'little and often' approach to eating might be of benefit is helping prevent you from building up a ravenous appetite and then gorging your self when you finally did get to eat (i.e. stop you from eating more calories than you needed).

    Just my thoughts on it.


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    #37
    thegreatiam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭thegreatiam


    shikaakwa312 wrote: »
    Look at the history of this thread and you tell me. Did i initiate any confrontation whatsoever? OP said all suggestions were welcomed. I'm actually a nice guy and never am confrontational but I hate it when uneducated people completely tear someone's argument up without any backing and then continue to detract from the issue with petty b.s.
    That's exactly what you did, you said eat 5/6 times a day, a theory that makes no sense whatsoever and was debunked an age ago.you said don't eat before bed, which is jibberjabber. you said eat immediately (within 30 minutes) after working out. Which we all know doesn't really make much difference and the window is actually much longer. You actually said it was the most important thing, when clearly it isn't.
    all without providing a stick of reference, yet all these myths have been dis proven time and time again. So it leads me to believe that your sources are comically out of date or you just overheard it from some other wannabe coach. and the only source you 'reference' is you played soccer so you went to a nutrition talk. Really? that's a source now? I visited the planetarium once, maybe ill become an astronaut.
    shikaakwa312 wrote: »
    Btw, your information about waiting to eat for 2 hrs after training in the other thread was idiotic but I decided not to address it and instead respond to the OP. Did I not? Go look at that thread as well, you clearly took my words and I did not even entertain your thoughts and instead directly told the OP that turkey is a good protein and that it has tryptophan. Go read it.

    I have no idea what youre talking about here. Do you need a lie down?


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    #38
    shikaakwa312
    Closed Accounts Posts: 49 ✭shikaakwa312


    tryptophan is an amino acid associated with sleeping. we were discussing it on another thread. That was directed at runawaybride but you were too dumb to notice


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    #39
    shikaakwa312
    Closed Accounts Posts: 49 ✭shikaakwa312


    Im done here this is useless and it has turned into attacking me (the funniest part is that i was just trying to be helpful- and share what i have learned over the many years), good luck everyone. Will Heffernan PM me if you ever decide to get results and ill take a look.


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    #40
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    shikaakwa312 wrote: »
    tryptophan is an amino acid associated with sleeping. we were discussing it on another thread. That was directed at runawaybride but you were too dumb to notice

    No need to insult me.

    Instead, i will insult your research, which is shoddy, shoddy, shoddy.


    Turkey the Sleep Inducer?

    As it turns out, turkey contains no more of the amino acid tryptophan than other kinds of poultry. In fact, turkey actually has slightly less tryptophan than chicken, says Dawn Jackson Blatner, RD, LDN


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    #41
    thegreatiam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭thegreatiam


    shikaakwa312 wrote: »
    tryptophan is an amino acid associated with sleeping. we were discussing it on another thread. That was directed at runawaybride but you were too dumb to notice

    I'm to dumb to notice? some cheek on you. Im not the one spouting broscience from 30 years ago like its gospel. oh wait, its from an unreferenced thread. I get it, you love to talk about things without referencing them.

    Or wait, did you learn it at an iron man event you attended. lol.

    In case you don't know, playing football, and going to a lecture once do not replace knowledge, in fact that they make up a nice afternoon, that is all.


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    #42
    btkm8unsl0w5r4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,538 ✭✭✭btkm8unsl0w5r4


    OP at what level are you. Concerning yourself with these small things I most likely not as important as other bigger factors. Sometimes I think the strength coaching and elite fitness community overcomplicate something pretty basic, as the are concerned with minute differences that matter not one jot to the ordinary joe.

    Guys...stop the weirdness on the thread, too much test on the go maybe.


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    #43
    thegreatiam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭thegreatiam


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    No need to insult me.

    Instead, i will insult your research, which is shoddy, shoddy, shoddy.


    Turkey the Sleep Inducer?

    As it turns out, turkey contains no more of the amino acid tryptophan than other kinds of poultry. In fact, turkey actually has slightly less tryptophan than chicken, says Dawn Jackson Blatner, RD, LDN

    see that, that's a source.

    Or would you prefer SOURCE: I had turkey for christmas once, and fell right asleep after it.


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    #44
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    thegreatiam wrote: »
    I'm to dumb to notice? some cheek on you.

    He's talking to me now - he hasn't realised he needs to quote. Someone should tell him.


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    #45
    thegreatiam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭thegreatiam


    shikaakwa312 wrote: »
    Im done here this is useless and it has turned into attacking me (the funniest part is that i was just trying to be helpful- and share what i have learned over the many years), good luck everyone. Will Heffernan PM me if you ever decide to get results and ill take a look.

    share what exactly, myths that were debunked before the advent of the internet, that any 10 year old child could tell you were wrong?
    that's not being helpful that's hindering someone by providing misinformation.

    If that's what you have learned over many many years then i truly pity your teachers. I hope you were good at football in college, cos clearly your grades were lacking.


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    #46
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    shikaakwa312 wrote: »
    Im done here this is useless and it has turned into attacking me (the funniest part is that i was just trying to be helpful- and share what i have learned over the many years), good luck everyone. Will Heffernan PM me if you ever decide to get results and ill take a look.
    In fairness, you were the one asked to back up some questionable remarks which are generally held to be baseless, and you were the one who turned it into an argument, insulting others.


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    #47
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    OP, what it comes down to is simply this. Training hungry could make you loose more fat, but it could also mean you dont train to your potential because, well, youre hungry. As fitzgeme (and of course Will, right at the start) said, if youre starting out, dont overcomplicate things. Worry about the minutiae when you plateau in your training or weight loss.


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    #48
    jt72
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭jt72


    thegreatiam wrote: »
    Or would you prefer SOURCE: I had turkey for christmas once, and fell right asleep after it.

    You had a Christmas where all you ate was Turkey? I'm not trolling, but the fact that you had turkey and fell asleep means these are related (perhaps on only this occasion) and not evidence that turkey makes you sleep.

    I'm not even saying turkey does or does not put you to sleep, but associations/relations does not equal evidence or proof.


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    #49
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    jt72 wrote: »
    You had a Christmas where all you ate was Turkey? I'm not trolling, but the fact that you had turkey and fell asleep means these are related (perhaps on only this occasion) and not evidence that turkey makes you sleep.

    I'm not even saying turkey does or does not put you to sleep, but associations/relations does not equal evidence or proof.

    That was the joke. A poster was stating that turkey had an effect on sleep, which was debunked and then some anecdotal "evidence" posted.


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    #50
    thegreatiam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭thegreatiam


    jt72 wrote: »
    You had a Christmas where all you ate was Turkey? I'm not trolling, but the fact that you had turkey and fell asleep means these are related (perhaps on only this occasion) and not evidence that turkey makes you sleep.

    I'm not even saying turkey does or does not put you to sleep, but associations/relations does not equal evidence or proof.

    Thanks man, i was getting worried there. But I never said I ate it.


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    #51
    jt72
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭jt72


    I have fought the bulge for about the past 6 years. I counted calories and ran marathons. My best success has come from changing what I eat. I shifted from a normal 'healthy' diet to one that focusses more on protein, fat, and get carbs from vegetables and fruit instead of refined sources. Call it paleo, call it primal, call it atkins... it's something like that.

    In my experience, and from the evidence I've read, exercise is a small factor in weight loss. Exercise often induces a response that increases appetite. Exercising at low HR for extended periods of time (up to 2 hours) - like a long walk, jog or bike ride - MAY be beneficial in terms of weight loss.

    I read a couple of Gary Taubes books recently, and he does a good job of presenting evidence that refutes many ideas behind conventional wisdom diets (low fat, high carb, calorie restricted) and proposes that diets higher in protein and fat are more successful at weight loss/maintenance.

    The point I made above about turkey is ripped off from one of those books...


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    #52
    jt72
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭jt72


    Misread the turkey thing - sorry!


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    #53
    Will Heffernan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Will Heffernan


    jt72 wrote: »
    I have fought the bulge for about the past 6 years. I counted calories and ran marathons. My best success has come from changing what I eat. I shifted from a normal 'healthy' diet to one that focusses more on protein, fat, and get carbs from vegetables and fruit instead of refined sources. Call it paleo, call it primal, call it atkins... it's something like that.
    Well done. I'd agree with this 100%.
    In my experience, and from the evidence I've read, exercise is a small factor in weight loss. Exercise often induces a response that increases appetite. Exercising at low HR for extended periods of time (up to 2 hours) - like a long walk, jog or bike ride - MAY be beneficial in terms of weight loss.
    I wouldn't say it's a small factor. The reason that diet/nutrition is a bigger fact with regards average people is because it is much easier to not eat a snickers bar than it is to burn one off.
    I read a couple of Gary Taubes books recently, and he does a good job of presenting evidence that refutes many ideas behind conventional wisdom diets (low fat, high carb, calorie restricted) and proposes that diets higher in protein and fat are more successful at weight loss/maintenance.
    Gary Taubes is terrible. I know I am apparently not ever supposed to disagree with anyone without providing references but with Taubes I wouldn't even know where to start and it would take me the entire weekend to finish.

    I'll just instead be happy that you arrived at a solution that worked for you.


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    #54
    dor843088
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭dor843088


    jt72 wrote: »
    I have fought the bulge for about the past 6 years. I counted calories and ran marathons. My best success has come from changing what I eat. I shifted from a normal 'healthy' diet to one that focusses more on protein, fat, and get carbs from vegetables and fruit instead of refined sources. Call it paleo, call it primal, call it atkins... it's something like that.

    In my experience, and from the evidence I've read, exercise is a small factor in weight loss. Exercise often induces a response that increases appetite. Exercising at low HR for extended periods of time (up to 2 hours) - like a long walk, jog or bike ride - MAY be beneficial in terms of weight loss.

    I read a couple of Gary Taubes books recently, and he does a good job of presenting evidence that refutes many ideas behind conventional wisdom diets (low fat, high carb, calorie restricted) and proposes that diets higher in protein and fat are more successful at weight loss/maintenance.

    The point I made above about turkey is ripped off from one of those books...

    You have switched to a far more satisfying diet in protein and vegetables thus reducing your appetite and calories . A huge plate of veg would be a similar calorie count to a slice of bread. Weight loss has nothing to do with food choices. Its calories in vs calories out simple as that.


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    #55
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    dor843088 wrote: »
    Weight loss has nothing to do with food choices. Its calories in vs calories out simple as that.

    Food choice affects calories in though - you even mentioned that yourself.


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    #56
    john_cappa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭john_cappa


    dor843088 wrote: »
    Weight loss has nothing to do with food choices. Its calories in vs calories out simple as that.

    It's not as simple as that really though.

    Some who takes in 2000 cals a day from McDonald's and some one who takes in 2000 cals a day from lean meat, "good" clean carb sources, veg and healthy fats will experience different results.


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    #57
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    john_cappa wrote: »
    It's not as simple as that really though.

    Some who takes in 2000 cals a day from McDonald's and some one who takes in 2000 cals a day from lean meat, "good" clean carb sources, veg and healthy fats will experience different results.

    Not with regards weight loss they won't.


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    #58
    dor843088
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭dor843088


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Food choice affects calories in though - you even mentioned that yourself.

    Of course it does but my point is you can eat any type of diet or food and loose weight as long as you are in a calorie deficit so food choices are irrelevant .


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    #59
    john_cappa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭john_cappa


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Not with regards weight loss they won't.

    I don't agree and have nothing in terms of research to back it up bar my own experiences.

    Perhaps weight loss will be the same but body composition may suffer.


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    #60
    john_cappa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭john_cappa


    http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/Whats-more-important-for-cutting-low-GI-or-calorie-deficit-m5059629.aspx

    Interesting reading. In particular post 6/7 and post 16.


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    #61
    dor843088
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭dor843088


    john_cappa wrote: »
    I don't agree and have nothing in terms of research to back it up bar my own experiences.

    Perhaps weight loss will be the same but body composition may suffer.

    Not true the body cannot tell if you got 20 g protein 40 carbs and 10 fats from a mcdonalds or a super healthy meal .


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