S506 - Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken - Have Not Read the Books

SoupyNorman · 21-05-2015 8:04am

mzungu wrote: »

For pretty much all the seasons so far folks have been complaining about slow pacing, bad writing, filler episodes etc.Then the last few episodes kick into gear and its all forgotten about...until the following year when the process repeats itself.

Id say half of it is to generate publicity for the show.

I think you're bang on.

I distinctly remember feeling like this while watching season 3 yet when I watch it in it's entirety it's a great season.

We all tune in week on week with giddy anticipation, we seek to be shocked to the heights of the Red Wedding or just see a taste of revenge being dished out. I gotta say, they are really making us work for it and I'm just hoping when the revenge gets going it does not disappoint.

4 episodes left, bring it home in style folks.

Roar · 21-05-2015 8:14am

Zaph wrote: »

And ruthless efficiency!

And an almost fanatical devotion to the pope.

Irishcrx · 21-05-2015 8:28am

Good episode , good season so far but it's well short of what we have come to expect from GOT. I agree it needs more episodes per season , maybe 12-14 because there is too much cramming going on.

Tommen needs to learn quickly to assert some authority or it'll be his death very soon , weak king's won't last very long he may be young but he's a bystander to everything that is going on around him and hasn't opened his mouth. Your the King man , grow some balls...there trying to kill your wife... You can imagine if that was Joffrey the 'High Septum' would not be hanging by his entrails from the top of the castle and his 'guards' would be either dead or awaiting public execution...And Tommen should have taken that moment to put the boot down, have a wee chat with Mammy afterwards , tell her you love her and if she interfers again in your affairs/marriage or the council she'll go for a neck stretch as well.

loyatemu · 21-05-2015 10:08am

InTheTrees wrote: »

Yes. But they very rarely used them to bring about their own downfall.

Which is why having the inquisitors drag of the reigning Monarch was a little odd at such an informal hearing. It just felt wrong.

Watch "Wolf Hall" -

at the end Anne Boleyn has her head chopped off, she was the queen at the time.

(spoilered for anyone who didn't pay attention during history class)

(also, seriously watch Wolf Hall, it's great.)

Adamocovic · 21-05-2015 10:45am

mzungu wrote: »

For pretty much all the seasons so far folks have been complaining about slow pacing, bad writing, filler episodes etc.Then the last few episodes kick into gear and its all forgotten about...until the following year when the process repeats itself.

Id say half of it is to generate publicity for the show.

I've been saying this to a few friends who have been complaining every week now that "nothing is happening". I've enjoyed it so far and don't understand all the complaints. I expect the big episodes to be 8/9/10, similar to other years.

We're not going to get twists turns, main characters killed and so on every episode or they would run out of plot quickly. I'm just going to look forward to the trial, the battle in the North, Tyrion getting closer to meeting Daenerys, and more than likely something big happening in Dorne.

mzungu · 21-05-2015 11:12am

SoupyNorman wrote: »

I think you're bang on.

I distinctly remember feeling like this while watching season 3 yet when I watch it in it's entirety it's a great season.

We all tune in week on week with giddy anticipation, we seek to be shocked to the heights of the Red Wedding or just see a taste of revenge being dished out. I gotta say, they are really making us work for it and I'm just hoping when the revenge gets going it does not disappoint.

4 episodes left, bring it home in style folks.

Absolutely, GOT always takes the slow burner approach and it makes the payoff far more enjoyable. If there was shocks and gore every week it would become stale and predictable. The fact that this season so far has been more about characters has me thinking some epic stuff is going to go down towards the latter end of this season, its certainly building up to to it. For example, Cersei Vs Olleanna Vs the religious fanatics, Littlefingers plotting (a highlight for me) Stannis Vs the Boltons at Winterfell, Jamie and Bonn at Dorne, Tyrion & Mr Friendzone arriving to meet Daenerys etc. Its all leading towards something, which is why I can't understand where all the criticism comes from.

Irishcrx wrote: »

Good episode , good season so far but it's well short of what we have come to expect from GOT. I agree it needs more episodes per season , maybe 12-14 because there is too much cramming going on.

Tommen needs to learn quickly to assert some authority or it'll be his death very soon , weak king's won't last very long he may be young but he's a bystander to everything that is going on around him and hasn't opened his mouth. Your the King man , grow some balls...there trying to kill your wife... You can imagine if that was Joffrey the 'High Septum' would not be hanging by his entrails from the top of the castle and his 'guards' would be either dead or awaiting public execution...And Tommen should have taken that moment to put the boot down, have a wee chat with Mammy afterwards , tell her you love her and if she interfers again in your affairs/marriage or the council she'll go for a neck stretch as well.

You just know things have gone to crap in Kings Landing when Joffreys rule is being held up as an example of leadership :pac::D

Adamocovic wrote: »

I've been saying this to a few friends who have been complaining every week now that "nothing is happening". I've enjoyed it so far and don't understand all the complaints. I expect the big episodes to be 8/9/10, similar to other years.

We're not going to get twists turns, main characters killed and so on every episode or they would run out of plot quickly. I'm just going to look forward to the trial, the battle in the North, Tyrion getting closer to meeting Daenerys, and more than likely something big happening in Dorne.

Totally, i'm hoping the budget saving in the earlier episodes (Dorne etc) is going towards when Stannis eventually arrives in Winterfell as that is gearing up to be this seasons big showdown. Id rather an epic big budget battle at Winterfell than more realistic looking sand dunes in Dorne!

tipparetops · 21-05-2015 11:30am

Roar wrote: »

I disagree massively with that. The wall scenes have been my favourite this season.

Not just the wall scenes. I have no problem with a slow paced show, I rather enjoy it as it usually builds up to something brilliant. Wolf Hall is a good example.

This season of GOT I have not really enjoyed,

The religious story line could be brilliant, but GOT is not developing this enough.

As for the wall, we will disagree. They introduce a great actor, Ciaran Hinds , and just when the wall could get interesting, it doesnt due to a bizarre death scene.

golfball37 · 21-05-2015 12:12pm

Anyone else reckon Bronn is in for a death by poison after being cut by one of the Kill Bill squad?

Connemara Farmer · 21-05-2015 12:15pm

golfball37 wrote: »

Anyone else reckon Bronn is in for a death by poison after being cut by one of the Kill Bill squad?

Better not be, he's one of the best characters in it IMO. If he was killed by someone like a Stannis, maybe, but as you put it, the kill bill squad, no :mad:

golfball37 · 21-05-2015 12:21pm

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Better not be, he's one of the best characters in it IMO. If he was killed by someone like a Stannis, maybe, but as you put it, the kill bill squad, no :mad:

A guy told me last night the song he was singing was called the Dornishmans wife and the bit Jamie stopped him from singing was all about a poisoned blade breaking the skin.

nibtrix · 21-05-2015 12:28pm

golfball37 wrote: »

A guy told me last night the song he was singing was called the Dornishmans wife and the bit Jamie stopped him from singing was all about a poisoned blade breaking the skin.

The full lyrics are here - http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/The_Dornishman%27s_Wife - I don't think there are any spoilers on that page but I take no responsibility if there are!

InTheTrees · 21-05-2015 1:08pm

loyatemu wrote: »

Watch "Wolf Hall" -
(spoilered for anyone who didn't pay attention during history class)

(also, seriously watch Wolf Hall, it's great.)

Certainly I think after watching Wolf Hall it makes me less tolerant of plot anomalies in GOT.

Wolf Hall shows how it should be done.

loyatemu · 21-05-2015 2:31pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

Certainly I think after watching Wolf Hall it makes me less tolerant of plot anomalies in GOT.

Wolf Hall shows how it should be done.

though WH is also very very slow moving. I actually think this season's GoT is better than last season. Last season there were a lot of plots that seemed to go nowhere and were being needlessly dragged out; this year hasn't been actioned packed but the story is moving forward (except for Dorne which we could probably do without).

jd007 · 21-05-2015 2:32pm

http://i.imgur.com/WSCmkP7.jpg

DeadHand · 21-05-2015 7:01pm

jd007 wrote: »

http://i.imgur.com/WSCmkP7.jpg

Nailed it.

Reminds me of the bedlam over the Love/Hate cat. Another series where characters merrily maimed, murdered and raped each other and the greatest outrage it ever caused was over the simulated assassination of a bloody cat.
Funny the things folk get sore about.

Forget the off-screen rape of Sansa, if Littlefinger kicks a spaniel in the next episode the internet will collapse.

jd007 · 21-05-2015 7:28pm

DeadHand wrote: »

Nailed it.

Reminds me of the bedlam over the Love/Hate cat. Another series where characters merrily maimed, murdered and raped each other and the greatest outrage it ever caused was over the simulated assassination of a bloody cat.
Funny the things folk get sore about.

The same cat which ended up on The Late Late Show after :pac:

DeadHand · 21-05-2015 8:52pm

jd007 wrote: »

The same cat which ended up on The Late Late Show after :pac:

A pathetic episode.

I heard grown adult men on the radio emotionally condemning the Love/Hate crew and the dangerous example they were setting.

Grown men, for Christ's sake.

wp_rathead · 22-05-2015 8:27am

Also, the people of Kings Landing fecking love Queen Margeary - place could go ballistic with news of her arrest

mzungu · 22-05-2015 12:35pm

My guess is as soon as the tables are turned on Cersei she will unleash this new improved reboot of the Mountain for protection from the fanatics.

ghogie91 · 22-05-2015 1:41pm

mzungu wrote: »

My guess is as soon as the tables are turned on Cersei she will unleash this new improved reboot of the Mountain for protection from the fanatics.

Yeah that is a back story that's very interesting actually, I can't see where that's going

SoupyNorman · 22-05-2015 1:57pm

mzungu wrote: »

My guess is as soon as the tables are turned on Cersei she will unleash this new improved reboot of the Mountain for protection from the fanatics.

We deserve nothing less.

Adamocovic · 22-05-2015 2:00pm

As long as the reboot Mountain doesnt come up against Ser Loras and win! Can tell this is going to a trial by combat and I don't want Ser Loras to be killed by the Mountain!

Jaime will get some surprise when he comes back, Kingslanding in chaos haha

Connemara Farmer · 22-05-2015 2:35pm

Reboot of the mountain? What am I missing? I know who "The Mountain" is, but not joining the dots.

J. Marston · 22-05-2015 2:43pm

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Reboot of the mountain? What am I missing? I know who "The Mountain" is, but not joining the dots.

Oberyn blades were poisoned when fighting The Mountain. It didn't look like he was going to survive but Qyburn has been working on him under Cersei's command....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NgIoIcTNoA

Qyburn's "Oh no...." is ominous.

magicmushroom · 22-05-2015 2:47pm

I don't really get all the fuss over the 'rape' scene.
Firstly, it wasn't rape. Sansa consented, she at no point said No - unless I missed that?

Yes he was rough with her but that was how women were treated then and it was hardly rocket science to know he wasn't going to be very gentle with her.

I wasn't disturbed by it in any way, it's GoT and I actually thought it was quite tame by their standards.

mzungu · 22-05-2015 2:55pm

ghogie91 wrote: »

Yeah that is a back story that's very interesting actually, I can't see where that's going

SoupyNorman wrote: »

We deserve nothing less.

Must say I was wondering myself what the bigger picture was with reviving the Mountain. Now that the Lannisters are on the back foot id imagine he will come in quite useful.

Adamocovic wrote: »

As long as the reboot Mountain doesnt come up against Ser Loras and win! Can tell this is going to a trial by combat and I don't want Ser Loras to be killed by the Mountain!

Jaime will get some surprise when he comes back, Kingslanding in chaos haha

Jamie would be best served staying away from Kings Landing. If the fanatics get wind he is Tommen's father he may be taking part in his very own trial by combat. He is safer in Dorne...they seem to be a fairer bunch to deal with.

SoupyNorman · 22-05-2015 3:00pm

mzungu wrote: »

Jamie would be best served staying away from Kings Landing. If the fanatics get wind he is Tommen's father he may be taking part in his very own trial by combat. He is safer in Dorne...they seem to be a fairer bunch to deal with.

I think it's safe to say tis the beginning of the end of Lannister rule of the Iron Throne.

J. Marston · 22-05-2015 3:01pm

magicmushroom wrote: »

I don't really get all the fuss over the 'rape' scene.
Firstly, it wasn't rape. Sansa consented, she at no point said No - unless I missed that?

Yes he was rough with her but that was how women were treated then and it was hardly rocket science to know he wasn't going to be very gentle with her.

I wasn't disturbed by it in any way, it's GoT and I actually thought it was quite tame by their standards.

Not sure how having her clothes ripped off, being forcibly bent over and crying equates to "Sansa consented."

I wasn't outraged by the scene either, it was just horrible to watch from the point of view of liking Sansa as a character.

mzungu · 22-05-2015 3:06pm

J. Marston wrote: »

Oberyn blades were poisoned when fighting The Mountain. It didn't look like he was going to survive but Qyburn has been working on him under Cersei's command....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NgIoIcTNoA

Qyburn's "Oh no...." is ominous.

SoupyNorman wrote: »

I think it's safe to say tis the beginning of the end of Lannister rule of the Iron Throne.

Yep, id say your right there. The brains of house Lannister died with Tywin and are on the run with Tyrion. Plus the fact that Tommen is such a likeable bloke, is omen enough that he won't last a wet day on the Throne.

bren2001 · 22-05-2015 3:43pm

magicmushroom wrote: »

I don't really get all the fuss over the 'rape' scene.
Firstly, it wasn't rape. Sansa consented, she at no point said No - unless I missed that?

Yes he was rough with her but that was how women were treated then and it was hardly rocket science to know he wasn't going to be very gentle with her.

I wasn't disturbed by it in any way, it's GoT and I actually thought it was quite tame by their standards.

Can you explain to me at what point she consented? She has to actually consent, there is no default consent....

magicmushroom · 22-05-2015 4:50pm

bren2001 wrote: »

Can you explain to me at what point she consented? She has to actually consent, there is no default consent....

She never said No, did she?

Look don't get me wrong, it was brutal - and by todays standards it would indeed be rape. But not in Game of Thrones!

I honestly thought it was going to be horrific viewing but it wasn't, it was bearable - I'm just trying to say that it wasn't as awful as some have made it out to be and I don't think it was rape, as horrible as it was.

magicmushroom · 22-05-2015 4:52pm

J. Marston wrote: »

I wasn't outraged by the scene either, it was just horrible to watch from the point of view of liking Sansa as a character.

Oh definitely, she is so sweet and innocent that it makes it all the worse. Hopefully Theon will get his revenge

bren2001 · 22-05-2015 6:21pm

magicmushroom wrote: »

She never said No, did she?

Look don't get me wrong, it was brutal - and by todays standards it would indeed be rape. But not in Game of Thrones!

I honestly thought it was going to be horrific viewing but it wasn't, it was bearable - I'm just trying to say that it wasn't as awful as some have made it out to be and I don't think it was rape, as horrible as it was.

Just because she didn't fight it doesn't mean its not rape. She doesn't have to say no. Saying that, it was quite tastefully done and I had no issue with it. It makes for an interesting story line.

Connemara Farmer · 22-05-2015 6:24pm

It's GOT, some of ye are taking this terribly seriously.

SoupyNorman · 22-05-2015 8:08pm

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

It's GOT, some of ye are taking this terribly seriously.

It's a door, use it.

Connemara Farmer · 22-05-2015 8:11pm

SoupyNorman wrote: »

It's a door, use it.

Meow.

kingshankly · 23-05-2015 12:04am

bren2001 wrote: »

Can you explain to me at what point she consented? She has to actually consent, there is no default consent....

When she agreed to marry him as the bed ceremony is part of the wedding

PressRun · 23-05-2015 12:20am

I actually find it pretty disturbing that people think that what happened to Sansa somehow wasn't rape. Just because she knew he was a psycho and they would have to consummate the marriage, doesn't mean that she really wanted to have sex with him or do it while Theon stood there watching. She clearly didn't want to do that, but was in a position where she couldn't very well back out. It was rape in every sense of the word. I don't even think the show writers would dispute that it was rape.

Even Tyrion said when he married Sansa that he wouldn't consummate the marriage because he didn't want to rape her. Just because it's a sort of medieval world, doesn't mean that rape suddenly stops being rape. I mean, marital rape was legal in Ireland until not too long ago and we still consider it rape, even it was "a different time". Was Ned any less murdered simply because it's Game of Thrones and killing people is part and parcel of that world? Just because certain heinous acts were 'ok' by the standards of a certain time period, it doesn't make them any less wrong.

RichFTW · 23-05-2015 1:01am

PressRun wrote: »

I actually find it pretty disturbing that people think that what happened to Sansa somehow wasn't rape.

Totally agree. The fact that some people still think it wasn't rape is a lot more disturbing than the actual scene.

I do think some of the public reaction was over the top though considering way worse things have happened on the show without the outrage. The stabbing of Robb's pregnant wife at the Red Wedding was the most disturbing thing the show has done so far for me anyway. Theon getting his lad chopped off was also pretty shocking.

DeadHand · 23-05-2015 2:28pm

Ah yeah, 'twas rape by any standard.

Still, far from the worst thing to happen on what has been a particularly brutal story and unworthy of the fury over it.

I still remember the genuine shock I felt at Jaime lobbing Bran out the window of the tower. It was the first really shocking thing to happen on the show. It's since lost a lot of that capacity to surprise.

Essien · 23-05-2015 11:41pm

I'm not sure what to make of Mountain 2.0 tbh. Regardless of what the mad scientist does with him, how much extra is he actually going to be able to do? If push comes to shove is he going to wipe out the entire faith or whatever army the Tyrells inevitably sent in after Cersei?

Surely he'll be unstoppable in trial by combat but after that, I'm not so sure what to expect. I'm looking forward to seeing it though.

golfball37 · 24-05-2015 12:27am

Bet ser loras wishes he lived in Ireland today.

J. Marston · 24-05-2015 12:32am

Essien wrote: »

I'm not sure what to make of Mountain 2.0 tbh. Regardless of what the mad scientist does with him, how much extra is he actually going to be able to do? If push comes to shove is he going to wipe out the entire faith or whatever army the Tyrells inevitably sent in after Cersei?

Surely he'll be unstoppable in trial by combat but after that, I'm not so sure what to expect. I'm looking forward to seeing it though.

Oberyn dealt with him fairly easily in the trial by combat but he got cocky when he should've just driven the spear through him. Multiple times.

I think Loras will beat him if they do a trial by combat.

Essien · 24-05-2015 12:39am

I was under the impression he was coming back stronger, which would seem a little pointless if he were to and lose his first trial by combat to Loris.

EoghanIRL · 24-05-2015 10:36am

If the tyrells make Cercei and Jamie's relationship publicly known and the faith militants go after them then who would become king seeing as the current king is illegitimate?

Brian2208 · 24-05-2015 11:23am

If Tommen and Myrcella are out of the picture Stannis would become the rightful king as King Robert's brother

mzungu · 24-05-2015 11:30am

Essien wrote: »

I'm not sure what to make of Mountain 2.0 tbh. Regardless of what the mad scientist does with him, how much extra is he actually going to be able to do? If push comes to shove is he going to wipe out the entire faith or whatever army the Tyrells inevitably sent in after Cersei?

Surely he'll be unstoppable in trial by combat but after that, I'm not so sure what to expect. I'm looking forward to seeing it though.

I wonder will he face off with the Hound at some stage. Aria said something along the lines of 'leaving him to die' in the last episode. I was taking that as a hint that he is most likely still alive.

J. Marston wrote: »

Oberyn dealt with him fairly easily in the trial by combat but he got cocky when he should've just driven the spear through him. Multiple times.

I think Loras will beat him if they do a trial by combat.

Oberyn would be a hell of a lot more skilful and nimble than the average fighter though. Even Bonn, who is not exactly a novice in fighter, told Tyrion he would not stand a chance against the Mountain. If memory recalls I think Jamie alluded to much the same, even if he had use of both his hands. I couldn't see Loras getting the better of either version of the Mountain.

If the tyrells make Cercei and Jamie's relationship publicly known and the faith militants go after them then who would become king seeing as the current king is illegitimate?

Would it be Gendry be next in line, as he is Roberts illegitimate. If it's not common knowledge about Gendry, then surely Stannis. If there is a power vacuum in Kings Landing, then whoever is wins the battle at Winterfell can swoop down to claim the Iron Throne.

wp_rathead · 24-05-2015 2:14pm

mzungu wrote: »

I wonder will he face off with the Hound at some stage. Aria said something along the lines of 'leaving him to die' in the last episode. I was taking that as a hint that he is most likely still alive.

that is interesting
In that scene Jaq would hit her when ever she lied.
ayra went "I left him to die. I hated him" and she got a WHACK
I'd assumed the lie was "I hated him"
Unless Brotherhood With No Banners turn up to revive him though don't see how he could survive
Also don't see how he could get to Kings Landing to potentially fight FrankenMountain

mzungu wrote: »

Oberyn would be a hell of a lot more skilful and nimble than the average fighter though. Even Bonn, who is not exactly a novice in fighter, told Tyrion he would not stand a chance against the Mountain. If memory recalls I think Jamie alluded to much the same, even if he had use of both his hands. I couldn't see Loras getting the better of either version of the Mountain.

that is true, remember that Brienne bet Loras in a duel infront of Renly

mzungu wrote: »

Would it be Gendry be next in line, as he is Roberts illegitimate. If it's not common knowledge about Gendry, then surely Stannis. If there is a power vacuum in Kings Landing, then whoever is wins the battle at Winterfell can swoop down to claim the Iron Throne.

Gendry would have to be legitimized by the King to become next in line- can't imagine Cersei (who has Tommen under her thumb) allowing that

DeadHand · 24-05-2015 3:54pm

Brian2208 wrote: »

If Tommen and Myrcella are out of the picture Stannis would become the rightful king as King Robert's brother

Stannis is the rightful king irregardless of what happens in King's Landing. Tommen and Myrcella are products of incest, not Robert's offspring.

mzungu wrote: »

Oberyn would be a hell of a lot more skilful and nimble than the average fighter though. Even Bonn, who is not exactly a novice in fighter, told Tyrion he would not stand a chance against the Mountain

He didn't say he wouldn't stand a chance. He wasn't totally confident but he still believed he could win. Cersei offered him a better, safer deal.

SoupyNorman · 24-05-2015 5:28pm

wp_rathead wrote: »

Unless Brotherhood With No Banners turn up to revive him though don't see how he could survive

Uh Mah Gawd, although I choose to believe the Hound is alive my head says he could not have survived until this point you've raised.

S506 - Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken - Have Not Read the Books

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