Cardinal Brady - holed and sunk, but does he know it?

Doctor DooM · 04-05-2012 10:26pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

brady said it? which program?

There was an interview on with the abuse victim (I think it was prime time? I don't watch tv regularly at all) and he said he was asked if he liked what was happening, among the other things mentioned here. He also specifically stated it was Sean (then John) Brady who signed the oath saying he wasn't allowed to talk to anyone about it.

I'll try to find it on RTE's player now.

EDIT:

http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1147927

From about 7:30 on.

04-05-2012 10:31pm

Fortyniner wrote: »

For me, one of the most distressing parts of the BBC programme was near the end, when the poor man who had reported that bastard Smythe all those years ago was reunited with his friend, a fellow victim, who doesn't want to be identified (understandably). He hugged his friend and said 'I thought I'd saved you, you know'.

Real lump in the throat moment.

Happyman42 · 04-05-2012 10:35pm

Doctor DooM wrote: »

There was an interview on with the abuse victim (I think it was newsnight? I don't watch tv regularly at all) and he said he was asked if he liked what was happening, among the other things mentioned here. He also specifically stated it was Sean (then John) Brady who signed the oath saying he wasn't allowed to talk to anyone about it.

I'll try to find it on RTE's player now.

I think that was on The Nolan show on BBC last night. He was in the audience.

FergusODowd · 04-05-2012 11:53pm

Will brady jump before he's pushed ?

robindch · 04-05-2012 11:56pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

and asked him if he enjoyed it, i have heard. can anyone verify this?

So far as I'm aware, only pieces of the transcript have been released, but it did have Brady asking about erections, whether the victim "liked" boys and that kind of thing; stuff that would probably have the "note-taker" up in court these days.

That said though, a catholic priest -- dead now -- in a school I went to was notorious for asking boys 11, 12 and 13 years old exactly the same questions. "Do ye feel a little bit, ah, stiff in the morning, dearie?" was one question a friend of mine was asked.

So it was clearly something that priests were worried about, and were worried about in a sufficiently consistent way, that I'm (seriously) beginning to wonder whether this kind of question and answer was something that priests studied in college.

Seth Brundle · 05-05-2012 12:13am

robindch wrote: »

So far as I'm aware, only pieces of the transcript have been released, but it did have Brady asking about erections, whether the victim "liked" boys and that kind of thing; stuff that would probably have the "note-taker" up in court these days.

That said though, a catholic priest -- dead now -- in a school I went to was notorious for asking boys 11, 12 and 13 years old exactly the same questions. "Do ye feel a little bit, ah, stiff in the morning, dearie?" was one question a friend of mine was asked.

So it was clearly something that priests were worried about, and were worried about in a sufficiently consistent way, that I'm (seriously) beginning to wonder whether this kind of question and answer was something that priests studied in college.

The rcc is sexually obsessed so questions on sex are par for the course.
Sure weren't there similar allegations against mcquaid recently (who coincidentally told Dev how to "run" the country?

joseph brand · 05-05-2012 12:56am

kbannon wrote: »

The rcc is sexually obsessed so questions on sex are par for the course.
Sure weren't there similar allegations against mcquaid recently (who coincidentally told Dev how to "run" the country?

Stole my post!

Was about to say the exact same thing. Stephen fry said "The church is OBSESSED with sex".

I'd never thought of it 'til he said it.

ShooterSF · 05-05-2012 2:00am

christmas2012 wrote: »

the irish public back then didnt put up a moral fight either,if you said anything you could be whipped away to the bold boys school,or if you got pregnant your own family would disown you,and that was from the public..people looked up to these religious figures and gave them a lot more authority than they should have had..
as far as im concerned what the cardinal did was wrong and he shouldnt have just left it at that,but what i was saying was that by his moral logic he thought he had done all he could,which i dont think he did personally myself..

The Irish public were indoctrinated into a cult that kept them loyal through threats of ostricisation in this life and eternal damnation in the fictitious next one and kept them as innocent to other philosophies than it's own as possible. I suppose Josef Fritzl's daughter has to accept some of the responsibility for her case too given that she didn't use every ounce of her life to fight for her freedom?
Victims are often brainwashed into accepting their treatment you know.

Kivaro · 05-05-2012 2:46am

I am so angry about all this, I am not going to post what I'd like seen done to brady.

robindch · 05-05-2012 9:27am

Interesting solution from the Vatican -- Ratzinger may appoint an assistant bishop "before the end of the year":

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0505/1224315653654.html

Irish Times wrote:

VATICAN SOURCES said yesterday they expected a coadjutor bishop to be appointed to the archdiocese of Armagh before the end of the year to aid embattled Cardinal Seán Brady.

The coadjutor bishop is usually younger than the resident bishop, essentially entrusted with wide-ranging administrative functions. Under canon law, a coadjutor has the right to succeed the person he is sent to assist. Cardinal Brady has faced calls to resign this week after a victim of serial child sex abuser Fr Brendan Smyth claimed that information he gave to a Catholic Church inquiry team in 1975, which included Cardinal Brady, was not passed on to parents of some victims. Brendan Boland, who was abused as a child by Smyth, made the allegations in a BBC documentary.

It also emerged yesterday that Brendan Smyth, who had his faculties to say Mass publicly and hear confession in Kilmore diocese removed following the 1975 abuse inquiry by then Fr Seán Brady and others, had those faculties restored to him by then bishop of Kilmore Francis McKiernan some time afterwards. This was confirmed yesterday by the Abbot of the Norbertine congregation’s Kilnacrott Abbey in Co Cavan where Smyth had been resident and to which congregation he belonged.

Fr Gerard Cusack was unable to say when those faculties were restored to Smyth by bishop McKiernan. Speaking on radio station Shannonside Northern Sound, he said Smyth’s faculties “were removed for some time and again were restored” by bishop McKiernan following Fr Brady’s 1975 abuse report. Kilmore diocesan secretary Fr Francis Duffy said last night that the current Bishop of Kilmore, Leo O’Reilly, was checking the facts.

The Holy See has stoutly defended the Irish primate, arguing he has done nothing wrong. However Vatican sources now expect Cardinal Brady (73) to effectively step aside, leaving the running of the archdiocese to a younger man.

Fortyniner · 05-05-2012 10:57am

What is it with the RCC and their independent language of canon law? We had visitators a short while ago, not visitors, and now we have a coadjutor, not an assistant. Then everyone starts using the vatican's own terminology - just watch. Off we all go into fairyland again.

It seems they wish to avoid plain speaking and move to some other ethereal level, but everyone then joins in.

They're talking about an ASSISTANT!

Yes, I know I shouldn't shout, but I'm upset at their shenanagins. A lot.

Happy Monday · 05-05-2012 11:21am

robindch wrote: »

Interesting solution from the Vatican -- Ratzinger may appoint an assistant bishop "before the end of the year":

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0505/1224315653654.html

You mean the Pope.
Show a little respect for the man's title.

Sonics2k · 05-05-2012 11:41am

Happy Monday wrote: »

You mean the Pope.
Show a little respect for the man's title.

We'll respect his title when he shows respect for People, Families and Children.

Happy Monday · 05-05-2012 11:51am

Sonics2k wrote: »

We'll respect his title when he shows respect for People, Families and Children.

No somehow I don't think you atheists will.
This Pope is doing a lot to correct the sins of the past.
But that will never be enough.
You want to see the Church destroyed.
I'd respect you people more were you just to concede this.

Galvasean · 05-05-2012 11:52am

Happy Monday wrote: »

You mean the Pope.
Show a little respect for the man's title.

Why?

Happy Monday · 05-05-2012 11:57am

Galvasean wrote: »

Why?

The head of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics.

Delirium · 05-05-2012 11:58am

Happy Monday wrote: »

Sonics2k wrote: »

We'll respect his title when he shows respect for People, Families and Children.

No somehow I don't think you atheists will.
This Pope is doing a lot to correct the sins of the past.
But that will never be enough.
You want to see the Church destroyed.
I'd respect you people more were you just to concede this.

And when exactly did he defrock the priests convicted of child sex abuse? Hard to respect him when he retains such disgusting individuals as members of the club.

Galvasean · 05-05-2012 12:05pm

Leave the Pope alone!!

Happy Monday · 05-05-2012 12:08pm

Galvasean wrote: »

Leave the Pope alone!!

Abuse is only a one way street for you I see.

ShooterSF · 05-05-2012 12:10pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

You mean the Pope.
Show a little respect for the man's title.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8QgyLQaV-k

christmas2012 · 05-05-2012 12:12pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

I suppose Josef Fritzl's daughter has to accept some of the responsibility for her case too given that she didn't use every ounce of her life to fight for her freedom?
Victims are often brainwashed into accepting their treatment you know.

I dont think the irish public on the whole were innocent as you claim,a lot of them had their suspicions of what went on but never did anything - remember the magdalene laundries...a lot of young pregnant women who were vunerable and in need of assistance were shunned by the community holier than thou gossips,and vilified as sluts..

And where exactly did i say that josef fritzls daughter needed to acccept the resonsiblity of her case?

Mabye thats how you really feel

Happy Monday · 05-05-2012 12:14pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

The Irish public were indoctrinated into a cult that kept them loyal through threats of ostricisation in this life and eternal damnation in the fictitious next one and kept them as innocent to other philosophies than it's own as possible. I suppose Josef Fritzl's daughter has to accept some of the responsibility for her case too given that she didn't use every ounce of her life to fight for her freedom?
Victims are often brainwashed into accepting their treatment you know.

As a Sinn Fein supporter do you care to comment on the dead children whose charred bodies were shovelled into body bags on Bloody Friday.

Shinners and atheists and of course agnostics.

Strange bedfellows indeed mama!

Galvasean · 05-05-2012 12:17pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

As a Sinn Fein supporter do you care to comment on the dead children whose charred bodies were shovelled into body bags on Bloody Friday.

Oh look, 'whataboutery' :rolleyes:

MagicMarker · 05-05-2012 12:20pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

The head of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics.

Was that the count on the last Census Sunday?

ShooterSF · 05-05-2012 12:24pm

christmas2012 wrote: »

I dont think the irish public on the whole were innocent as you claim,a lot of them had their suspicions of what went on but never did anything - remember the magdalene laundries...a lot of young pregnant women who were vunerable and in need of assistance were shunned by the community holier than thou gossips,and vilified as sluts..

And where exactly did i say that josef fritzls daughter needed to acccept the resonsiblity of her case?

Mabye thats how you really feel

The culture of Ireland was cultivated by the church to protect itself. Yes people had their suspicions but through the churches influence on them they did not speak up. That's the point. The whole country was a victim of the church's tyranny. Why do you think the laundries happened? Because the church's perverted vilification of sex outside of marriage seeped into the very state. These people were under it's influence and they acted horribly because of that influence. A country not built on those "Christian values" but rather on people's freedoms and happiness would not have allowed such things to go on. You can't blame the people of Ireland unless you want to blame the people of Ireland who were in the grips of the church.

Happy Monday wrote: »

As a Sinn Fein supporter do you care to comment on the dead children whose charred bodies were shovelled into body bags on Bloody Friday.

Shinners and atheists and of course agnostics.

Strange bedfellows indeed mama!

Sigh. I AM NOT A SHINNER. (I really have to put that in my sig at this point) SF happen to be my initials. At this point of my life I'm not even a patriot! I have some irrational loves for the country that I allow myself to indulge in (the football team for one) but I realise what a silly idea nationalism is.

ShooterSF · 05-05-2012 12:24pm

Galvasean wrote: »

Oh look, 'whataboutery' :rolleyes:

incorrect whataboutery at that!

LostinKildare · 05-05-2012 12:26pm

I'm with Vincent Browne: titles are instruments of subjugation.

Happy Monday · 05-05-2012 12:27pm

Galvasean wrote: »

Leave the Pope alone!!

In the context of this thread I think this is a unfortunate image for Galvesean to use.

Or does this image fit in neatly with the valueless credentials of atheists and of course agnostics?

Galvasean · 05-05-2012 12:30pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

Abuse is only a one way street for you I see.

Happy Monday wrote: »

In the context of this thread I think this is a unfortunate image for Galvesean to use.

Or does this image fit in neatly with the valueless credentials of atheists and of course agnostics?

Keep replying to the same post. Before long you may actually write something of value to the thread.

PS: That's not how you spell Galvasean. Show some respect for my proper title! :pac:

christmas2012 · 05-05-2012 12:33pm

the churchgoers mentality hasnt exactly helped,if things were more open maybe the boy could have been in a situation where he could speak out to his community (without being vilified are as someone telling tales etc)about such an indecent and horrible act that happened to him..
a lot of young people were whipped away to the christian brothers on complaints of other neighbours back in holier than thou little ireland,where you had the church and elders as the higher authorities which is why i think priests and other such officials went about unquestioned..as they could do no wrong they were seen as higher up the foodchain..
now of course our new church is the media which i think is unfortunate for different reasons,eg trial by media,what about that priest wrongfully accused on a primetime programme mission to pray...

Doctor DooM · 05-05-2012 12:38pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

You mean the Pope.
Show a little respect for the man's title.

I respect those who earn it.

Happy Monday · 05-05-2012 12:39pm

Galvasean wrote: »

Leave the Pope alone!!

Can I ask what you put into Google to get this image Galvasean?

Child crying perhaps?

What would Brendan Boland say about that?

You are a disgrace.

ShooterSF · 05-05-2012 12:44pm

christmas2012 wrote: »

the churchgoers mentality hasnt exactly helped,if things were more open maybe the boy could have been in a situation where he could speak out to his community (without being vilified are as someone telling tales etc)about such an indecent and horrible act that happened to him..
a lot of young people were whipped away to the christian brothers on complaints of other neighbours back in holier than thou little ireland,where you had the church and elders as the higher authorities which is why i think priests and other such officials went about unquestioned..as they could do no wrong they were seen as higher up the foodchain..
now of course our new church is the media which i think is unfortunate for different reasons,eg trial by media,what about that priest wrongfully accused on a primetime programme mission to pray...

Again you seem to be neglecting the fact that their mentality was created and supported by the church. The blame goes back to them. While yes I wish people had stood up to the RCC along time ago revolution against a group that has it's nails that dug into you is not an easy task. I think you're neglecting just how brainwashed the public were by the church.

Edit -
@HappyMonday, whenever you're ready to retract that Shinner post...

tayto lover · 05-05-2012 12:46pm

The one person in all this who showed any semblance of compassion and bravery was the victim Brendan Boland. As a 14 year old boy he came out to try and save others from the same abuse he suffered. It's a pity the people he shared his knowledge with hadn't the same level of compassion and bravery.

Seth Brundle · 05-05-2012 12:52pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

Sonics2k wrote: »

We'll respect his title when he shows respect for People, Families and Children.

No somehow I don't think you atheists will.
This Pope is doing a lot to correct the sins of the past.
But that will never be enough.
You want to see the Church destroyed.
I'd respect you people more were you just to concede this.

So he has sanctioned the release of all files for investagative purposes then? Is he cooperating in full with all investigations into clerical abuse?

Happy Monday · 05-05-2012 12:52pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

Again you seem to be neglecting the fact that their mentality was created and supported by the church. The blame goes back to them. While yes I wish people had stood up to the RCC along time ago revolution against a group that has it's nails that dug into you is not an easy task. I think you're neglecting just how brainwashed the public were by the church.

Edit -
@HappyMonday, whenever you're ready to retract that Shinner post...

The fact that you call yourself Shooter as well doesn't stand in your favour my Republican chum.

Happy Monday · 05-05-2012 12:53pm

kbannon wrote: »

So he has sanctioned the release of all files for investagative purposes then? Is he cooperating in full with all investigations into clerical abuse?

Yes he is - he has been crystal clear on this.

Doirtybirdy · 05-05-2012 12:57pm

koth wrote: »

And when exactly did he defrock the priests convicted of child sex abuse? Hard to respect him when he retains such disgusting individuals as members of the club.

I see where you are coming from .I've a lot of respect for individual priests,the vast majority of whom are good people trying to do good things despite the helm being infested by bad.I don't expect anyone to be castigated for that position despite the wide opinion in this atheist parish that feels the need to do so repeatedly.
For sure the leaders of the catholic church are the authors of their own churches shrinkage untill they accept and deal properly with home truths regarding hypocrisy of the worst order.

Heck,Cardinal Brady's situation is clear and simple.
No one could possibly think it credible that he as a 36 year old priest could not have thought the questions he was told to ask the boys perverse and unnecessary when the right thinking would just be investigating a rape on the one hand and how a priest could be a priest at all on the other having committed such crimes given the morals they are supposed to be adhering and preaching.

(On a side note,I came in here from the front page,as atheism wouldn't be top of my interests but looking around,why is there so much discussion of religion here,some of it derogatory [which I don't have a problem with,I'm just saying].I mean I'd have thought atheists couldn't/shouldn't care less about the Christians? I was expecting theoreticals on atheism to be the majority here not well for want of a better way of putting it religion bashing [not wanting to being offensive using that term]
It's probably the same in the religion forums? from the other side? I'm afraid to look.)
Jeeze I couldn't care less

Doctor DooM · 05-05-2012 12:59pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

Can I ask what you put into Google to get this image Galvasean?

Child crying perhaps?

What would Brendan Boland say about that?

You are a disgrace.

As much as I'm enjoying you making an eejit out of yourself, that's not a child, it's an adult. Quite a famous one.

Actually, from the tone of your last few posts, the attempts to be clever, the passive- aggressiveness against atheists, the obvliviousness, it's all adding up to something... an equation, if you will.

Happy Monday · 05-05-2012 1:03pm

Doctor DooM wrote: »

As much as I'm enjoying you making an eejit out of yourself, that's not a child, it's an adult. Quite a famous one.

Actually, from the tone of your last few posts, the attempts to be clever, the passive- aggressiveness against atheists, the obvliviousness, it's all adding up to something... an equation, if you will.

Do go on, if you will.

And agnostics - don't forget them.

Delirium · 05-05-2012 1:06pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

ShooterSF wrote: »

Again you seem to be neglecting the fact that their mentality was created and supported by the church. The blame goes back to them. While yes I wish people had stood up to the RCC along time ago revolution against a group that has it's nails that dug into you is not an easy task. I think you're neglecting just how brainwashed the public were by the church.

Edit -
@HappyMonday, whenever you're ready to retract that Shinner post...

The fact that you call yourself Shooter as well doesn't stand in your favour my Republican chum.

:rolleyes:
says he who thinks Bloody Sunday was a day of joy.

Isn't ignorant accusation throwing fun?

Happy Monday · 05-05-2012 1:14pm

koth wrote: »

:rolleyes:
says he who thinks Bloody Sunday was a day of joy.

Isn't ignorant accusation throwing fun?

Tut tut.
I am a Catholic remember defending His Holiness the Pope.
Why would I think that about the murder of 14 unarmed Catholic civilians?

Delirium · 05-05-2012 1:24pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

koth wrote: »

:rolleyes:
says he who thinks Bloody Sunday was a day of joy.

Isn't ignorant accusation throwing fun?

Tut tut.
I am a Catholic remember defending His Holiness the Pope.
Why would I think that about the murder of 14 unarmed Catholic civilians?

your username. Much like you made the stupid accusation to shooterSF being a Sinn fein supporter.

Maybe now you understand why your accusation was stupid.

Ghost Buster · 05-05-2012 1:27pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

Tut tut.
I am a Catholic remember defending His Holiness the Pope.
Why would I think that about the murder of 14 unarmed Catholic civilians?

Well you are on here demanding respect for the leader of a church infamous through out the world for its sheltering of child rapists so im not sure how you would feel about the murder of civilians frankly

Ellis Dee · 05-05-2012 1:29pm

I was listening to Joe Duffy yesterday - I'd say "for my sins" if I wasn't an atheist - and heard the result of the SMS poll he ran: around 80% said the cardinal should go. The impressive figure here, however, is that there there still seem to be 20% of people in Ireland who would like him to stay. I'm one of them (--- hears gasps of incredulity, but will get back to this point later!):D

Although I understand where the OP is coming from, I'm not so sure that the analogy, the comparison to a ship is entirely accurate. Brady is not the ship; he is only the captain of one ship in the fleet, and it is certain that he will be going over the side before long - either jumping or being tossed off (edit: no pun intended), but unfortunately the ship itself - which is actually what needs to be sunk along with the others in the fleet - will stay afloat and sail on in the hope that the present tempest will pass and a new fog of ignorance and blindness will descend and give it time to regroup. So it has been for the best part of 2,000 years.:rolleyes:

The man is 73 and would have retired by now if he had any sense and even if his reputation was entirely unblemished, and it would be very surprising indeed if there weren't several candidates ready to step into the job, and sharpening their knives at the same time. He will be allowed to spin on for a while, and then given the nudge and told to bow out. Then, the church will hope, he will be seen as the guilty party, but the church itself will do its best to spin the old line that it's really all about good deeds except for a few, yadda, yadda, yadda.;)

The reason I'd like to see him hang on limpet-like for as long as possible is that every day he stays in the job actually weakens the whole outfit and opens more people's eyes to its absurdity.:D

I notice a lot of people getting hot and bothered because of what they see as a "lack of respect" for the Pope's title. Why?

I bet most of them, especially those whose knickers are most twisted, haven't the foggiest notion about the etymology of the word "pope". For their enlightenment, let me explain that it comes from the Latin: papa, which in turn comes from the Greek: πάππας (pappas), a child's word for "father".

Child's word" Hmmmm ...:D

Personally, I began claiming several years ago that it is actually an acronym from the words Protector of Paedophiles Everywhere and have noted with some satisfaction that others are gradually adopting the same practice.:P

Galvasean · 05-05-2012 1:39pm

Psst, Happy Monday, google 'Leave Britney alone' and then you too will understand the meme.

magicbastarder · 05-05-2012 2:29pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

The head of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics.

a head whom most of the catholic followers in the west, it's probably a reasonable claim to make, do not like and regard as a retrograde leader for the church.

Sarky · 05-05-2012 2:47pm

Catholics just can't troll. It's probably the sheep mentality, although Stockholm Syndrome likely gets in the way too. Happy Monday is another in a long line of bitter disappointments, albeit not at all a surprising one.

Fortyniner · 05-05-2012 2:51pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

No somehow I don't think you atheists will.
This Pope is doing a lot to correct the sins of the past.
But that will never be enough.
You want to see the Church destroyed.
I'd respect you people more were you just to concede this.

Not the old 'you atheists' bit again. And 'you people' as well....

Galvasean · 05-05-2012 2:56pm

Fortyniner wrote: »

Not the old 'you atheists' bit again. And 'you people' as well....

Before anyone gets excited, it's also a meme!

Cardinal Brady - holed and sunk, but does he know it?

Comments