ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE

Crann na Beatha · 15-07-2014 5:18pm #1

This post has been deleted.

TwoShedsJackson · 15-07-2014 5:20pm

An opinion of your own too much to ask for?

Crann na Beatha · 15-07-2014 5:21pm

This post has been deleted.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater · 15-07-2014 5:22pm

It makes sense that they're looking for PPSNs to identify the correct allowance each household should get.

However, I think that the whole thing is a step too far, considering my parents haven't been able to drink their water supply for the past year due to Cryptosporidium.

Edit: Why does there always seem to be a vulture on this website just waiting to pounce on an OP for not giving their own opinion? Its gas.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 15-07-2014 5:24pm

I have no problem giving them PPS and DD details. PPS is the only way to ensure households get the correct allowance per person. It's no big deal as far as I'm concerned.

Geomy · 15-07-2014 5:26pm

This whole Irish Water thing is a farce.
In my opinion its just another job for the boys, robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I'd like to see a breakdown of how it is managed from the top to the bottom.

it's another way of creating jobs with huge salaries for the top down to middle management.

More than likely the guy's on the ground doing the hard work will be paid a minimum wage,with an incremental raise of 27 cent onto their hourly rate every 2 year's.

Anywho I think it's a bit too much to be asking people for their pps nos.

In that case they can probably deduct the payments from your welfare or tax credits. ..

TwoShedsJackson · 15-07-2014 5:27pm

Phoenix wrote: »

Care to read up again thanks,was typing it and since you were asking wheres your own opinion?

Nice ninja edit.

Sir Arthur Daley · 15-07-2014 5:29pm

Dont see the big deal here in requesting pps numbers.

Firefox11 · 15-07-2014 5:35pm

Property Tax....Water Tax.....No Difference really.

tayto lover · 15-07-2014 5:37pm

Will be giving nothing voluntarily.

hoodwinked · 15-07-2014 5:42pm

i don't know why they cannot just set it up like another utility like electric ireland or bord gais they don't need your pps numbers!

pay for what you use, and feck these "allowances" which are probably going to be abused anyway with fake pps numbers, or people resident outside the state's relatives...etc using their pps numbers.

its just messy,

Mr McBoatface · 15-07-2014 5:44pm

So it seems Irish water will be asking you for your PPS number - LINK. However Irish water seem to be unaware they legally can't seek this information. By law the only company's and agencies that can seek such information have to be listed as approved by the Department Of Social Protection, The Minister Of Social Protection and written into legislation , see question 8 on the welfare web site - LINK

A Full and comprehensive list of the department and agencies the DSP can share PPS data with is listed here - Schedule 5 of the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005". Irish Water are not listed.

More info on the use of PPSN here -LINK

So After hours will you help Irish water break the law ?

Donkey Oaty · 15-07-2014 5:47pm

jobyrne30 wrote: »

So After hours will you help Irish water break the law ?

I will be supplying Irish water with my PPS because I'm an anarchist.

S.O · 15-07-2014 5:47pm

On a water charges related note, Simon Coveney while giving an interview on newstalk this morning said

(at the moment Irish taxpayers are paying about 1.2 billion euros for the cost of water, water is not free at the moment)

His comment contradicts the argument some people make on internet forums that water is somehow free and now all of a sudden we need to pay for it, when we already paying for it through general taxation.

Valetta · 15-07-2014 5:48pm

There is no law that says they cannot seek your PPS number.

There may be one that says you do not have to give it to them, which is a completely different matter.

Ruu · 15-07-2014 5:52pm

Merged these threads together.

Mod.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 15-07-2014 5:53pm

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Nice ninja edit.

Oh dear. Best call it a day, fella.

Mr McBoatface · 15-07-2014 5:53pm

Valetta wrote: »

There is no law that says they cannot seek your PPS number.

There may be one that says you do not have to give it to them, which is a completely different matter.

According to the data protection commisioner you are wrong - see question 11.1 - http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Use-of-PPSN/1247.htm

It is an offence for any person or body to request or hold a record of a PPS number unless they are permitted by law (the Social Welfare Acts)to do so. It is the duty of all bodies to ensure that they are specified in law as being so entitled before they request or hold a record of any person's PPS number.

shruikan2553 · 15-07-2014 5:56pm

My guess is you either give them the PPSN or you get no allowance which would be in their interest so I doubt they give a ****

jobyrne30 wrote: »

According to the data protection commisioner you are wrong - see question 11.1 - http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Use-of-PPSN/1247.htm

They will probably have permission.

Manach · 15-07-2014 5:57pm

Waiting for the PPS tax.

Mr.McLovin · 15-07-2014 5:59pm

a childs allocation is enough for a quick shower and one flush of the jacks...

ye wouldn't want the scutters I tells ye

sammy37 · 15-07-2014 5:59pm

They can have my pps no. along with my wages ,my house (property tax) and everything else I have bar the clothes on my back or do they want them as well.

Valetta · 15-07-2014 6:01pm

Mr.McLovin wrote: »

a childs allocation is enough for a quick shower and one flush of the jacks...

ye wouldn't want the scutters I tells ye

Stop feeding them cheap curried chips and you'll be grand.

Valetta · 15-07-2014 6:02pm

jobyrne30 wrote: »

According to the data protection commisioner you are wrong - see question 11.1 - http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Use-of-PPSN/1247.htm

Ok. I stand corrected.

However, I would assume that the law will be amended, if not already done to allow for them to seek PPS numbers.

Perhaps the websites haven't been updated?

delahuntv · 15-07-2014 6:06pm

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

considering my parents haven't been able to drink their water supply for the past year due to Cryptosporidium.

.

Surely this is a good reason to give Irish water your full support - they will invest and have a lot more expert to correct issues than any local council.

It worked very well in the UK where there used to be huge issues with water quality - now almost unheard of because there is constant investment.

Asx for PPS numbers - we give airlines our passport numbers for going on a 30 minute journey. All it means is peope don't cheat and the honest ones don't pay for those who cheat.

(I used to live in US and also UK - so am well used to water charges and property taxes at multiples of what we are being charged here!)

Fukuyama · 15-07-2014 6:06pm

jobyrne30 wrote: »

According to the data protection commisioner you are wrong - see question 11.1 - http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Use-of-PPSN/1247.htm

There are several other acts which allow, or even require companies to ASK for a PPS. The Terrorism/Money Laundering acts requires that banks ask all new applicants to supply a PPSN - I don't think you have to give it though.

Those who do not supply their PPS might find themselves punished in some ways. For example, if you lose your job the Department of Social Protection would likely not be able to talk to Irish Water concerning an allowance. So by not playing ball you could be kicking a can down the road.

Valetta · 15-07-2014 6:08pm

Dean0088 wrote: »

So by not playing ball you could be kicking a can down the road.

I love cliches, but generally try to avoid them like the plague.

UCDVet · 15-07-2014 6:08pm

What will they do with all those who don't have PPS numbers?

Mr.McLovin · 15-07-2014 6:11pm

Valetta wrote: »

Stop feeding them cheap curried chips and you'll be grand.

I'll stick with the curry, its cheaper

Mr McBoatface · 15-07-2014 6:12pm

Valetta wrote: »

Ok. I stand corrected.

However, I would assume that the law will be amended, if not already done to allow for them to seek PPS numbers.

Perhaps the websites haven't been updated?

Not as simple as updating a website, the hole data-protection and PPS numbers is a minefield......especially for a private company, wouldn't be so much if they where a state run company.

sammy37 · 15-07-2014 6:12pm

delahuntv wrote: »

Surely this is a good reason to give Irish water your full support - they will invest and have a lot more expert to correct issues than any local council.

It worked very well in the UK where there used to be huge issues with water quality - now almost unheard of because there is constant investment.

Asx for PPS numbers - we give airlines our passport numbers for going on a 30 minute journey. All it means is peope don't cheat and the honest ones don't pay for those who cheat.

(I used to live in US and also UK - so am well used to water charges and property taxes at multiples of what we are being charged here!)

I also lived in uk and may i ask what were your bin charges ,motor tax ,doctor fees,medicine charges and school fees compared to here? They were multiple times less than here so your not comparing like for like are you.

Leroy42 · 15-07-2014 6:13pm

Irish water is a semi state, basically a step away from a private company.

Why would you give such information to a private company? They do not need your PPS #, what are they going to check it against? For it to be of any use they would need access to the PPS number database, along with address details. Why not give them access to your tax details etc.

Why not, because they do not have the right to this information.

They will need to come up with another plan as this one won't work.

Seems as if this could be in breach of data protection laws.

Holsten · 15-07-2014 6:22pm

Why do they need my PPS?

Q1. How many people currently live at this address? (Adults & Children)

That's all they need to calculate allowances.

UCDVet · 15-07-2014 6:23pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Irish water is a semi state, basically a step away from a private company.

Why would you give such information to a private company? They do not need your PPS #, what are they going to check it against? For it to be of any use they would need access to the PPS number database, along with address details. Why not give them access to your tax details etc.

Why not, because they do not have the right to this information.

They will need to come up with another plan as this one won't work.

Seems as if this could be in breach of data protection laws.

This is what I don't get.

The collective Irish government should have all of this data anyway. Between Revenue and the LPT folks and the PRTB. It should be absolutely trivial for all data sources to cross reference with one another. I mean, that's just the tip of the ice berg - An Post, the TV licensing database, the GNIB office....should all be very easy.

If someone came around asking for my PPS number I would assume they were running some sort of scam, because any legit representative of the Irish government would already have that information.

UCDVet · 15-07-2014 6:31pm

Holsten wrote: »

Why do they need my PPS?

Q1. How many people currently live at this address? (Adults & Children)

That's all they need to calculate allowances.

But that's rubbish.

Lots of people don't have PPS numbers. Foreign students, for example. Shall they not bathe or drink water?

Lots of people have PPS numbers but don't resides in Ireland. Giving them a PPS number, even if no other household is claiming that PPS number, doesn't mean that the person actually resides in the home. Everyone off doing a J1 or emigrating for a few years still has a PPS number.

Finally, as with any large government system, there will be errors. Will there be a PIN style authentication system? What's to stop a former landlord who has my PPS from claiming me, or what happens when I move and the letter meant to update my address is lost? If it's anything like LPT (which I paid for months, despite not owning any property) there will be no checks to ensure any of the information is correct.

Fr_Dougal · 15-07-2014 6:33pm

Thought it was a household water charge and not per person? Also, if you have pets, they consume water, what are people supposed to do with them? Not give them something to drink? Not wash them?

It's a bloody farce, won't be giving my PPS number to any water company.

Spanish Eyes · 15-07-2014 6:48pm

Irish Water is included in the new Social Welfare and Pensions bill 2014 as an approved body for PPSN purposes.

So, in the interests of lean government and cutting costs, I will politely refuse IW my PPSN but will refer them to DSP or Revenue who have that information.

I hate double jobbing!

Victor · 15-07-2014 6:57pm

TheZohan wrote: »

Also, if you have pets, they consume water, what are people supposed to do with them? Not give them something to drink? Not wash them?

Pay for the water?

Mena · 15-07-2014 6:59pm

Rabble not giving them my PPS rabble rabble not paying blah blah.

You guys are funny. Of course you are. Unless you're a dirty student scrounging of mammy you're paying and that's it.

Freaking internet warriors. And the one wanting to see a breakdown of how it's managed from top to bottom. Give me a break. Sure, you're a master of organisational design right? What the hell exactly do you plan to do with that info bar staring at it blankly?

/rant

trellheim · 15-07-2014 7:04pm

Steady on. What will probably happen is

1. Can we have your RSI number so we can give you the right allowances ?
2. Yes - fine- here's your bill with allowances credited.
3. No - fine - heres a bill with no allowances because you didn't want us to have your RSI number

... simple really ?

Daith · 15-07-2014 7:08pm

trellheim wrote: »

Steady on. What will probably happen is

1. Can we have your RSI number so we can give you the right allowances ?
2. Yes - fine- here's your bill with allowances credited.
3. No - fine - heres a bill with no allowances because you didn't want us to have your RSI number

... simple really ?

Houses have RSI numbers? It's not a bill per person in the house?

smellmepower · 15-07-2014 7:11pm

No kids living here,not entitled to any allowances so won't be giving Denis O'Brien my PPS.

Mr McBoatface · 15-07-2014 7:18pm

Mena wrote: »

Rabble not giving them my PPS rabble rabble not paying blah blah.

You guys are funny. Of course you are. Unless you're a dirty student scrounging of mammy you're paying and that's it.

Freaking internet warriors. And the one wanting to see a breakdown of how it's managed from top to bottom. Give me a break. Sure, you're a master of organisational design right? What the hell exactly do you plan to do with that info bar staring at it blankly?

/rant

Jesus you are a bit hostile.

Haven't seen anybody here say the won't pay, many have a problem with a company getting their hands on PPS details in order to pay a fcukin bill.

If there is an allowance for kids and others stuff they need to come up with a better way getting the cost reduction to the end user........let me see like the revenue issuing tax credits to the value of the allowance. Anything other than me handing my PPS details to a company who have no legal right to it.

Buzz Killington the third · 15-07-2014 7:22pm

Vincent Round Sunglasses wrote: »

I have no problem giving them PPS and DD details. PPS is the only way to ensure households get the correct allowance per person. It's no big deal as far as I'm concerned.

I don't understand this. The census has details of all households!

tayto lover · 15-07-2014 7:26pm

Mena wrote: »

Rabble not giving them my PPS rabble rabble not paying blah blah.

You guys are funny. Of course you are. Unless you're a dirty student scrounging of mammy you're paying and that's it.

Freaking internet warriors. And the one wanting to see a breakdown of how it's managed from top to bottom. Give me a break. Sure, you're a master of organisational design right? What the hell exactly do you plan to do with that info bar staring at it blankly?

/rant

Ah Enda's wee pet speaks.:pac:

Crann na Beatha · 15-07-2014 7:27pm

This post has been deleted.

LeinsterDub · 15-07-2014 7:29pm

I for one am currently rereading the entire Dune series. I plan to live like a Fremen. Also I plan to walk without rhythm but that's unrelated to the water tax.

banie01 · 15-07-2014 7:34pm

When I lived in Spain, every Utility provider, Unelco, Inalsa, Financial Institutions, Satellite TV providers and telecoms,all those Service providers required one's NIF/CIF (Spanish PPS) before they would provide you with a service it is just how things are done ''out foreign''.
But here in Ireland, given our love of privacy
Given our Government's, Our Utilities and Financial companies ''Habit'' of data mismanagement, outright data protection breaches and overall incompetence.
I can't see too many people rushing out to share their details!
What is even more concerning for me, Is the excuse offered for Irish waters need for these details is to ensure everyone gets the ''correct allowance'' ie the Childrens water and so on.
So by having these details, Irish Water can confirm they are correct via a cross check of a pre-existing database?
The Dept of Social Protection's database maybe?
Surely that is a breach of Data protection by the D.S.P?
As I never authorised my data to be shared with an autonomous, totally incompetent and soon to be privatized quango?

15-07-2014 8:12pm

Give our PPS numbers to what will more than likely be a totally private company in the near future?

banie01 wrote: »

Given our Government's, Our Utilities and Financial companies ''Habit'' of data mismanagement, outright data protection breaches and overall incompetence.
I can't see too many people rushing out to share their details!

Agree. A recipe for fraud and multiple identity theft.

y0ssar1an22 · 15-07-2014 8:35pm

I dont like the idea of IW. Are our water charges going to be used to pay some big dogs 150k a year? If that's the case the whole thing is a cod.
I dont understand why they cant have a similar setup to the TV license. Hire x people for 1 month to send out annual letters and you pay in the post office. No allowances and a flat per house charge. It would still be cheaper because there will be no installation of meters and no top-dogs.
And what happens if the people in IW decide they want a wage rise or bonus? Just pass the cost onto us?

Banjo String · 15-07-2014 8:42pm

It's plain and simple why they will be asking for a pps number.

If you are in an unmetered house, estate or in an apartment complex, and you refuse to pay, they can then deduct at source (seeing as turning off or reducing the pressure isn't an option to them)

I hope the Irish people finally start standing up to these shower of pricks In govt tbh.

ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE

Water Charges 763 votes

Comments

***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Water Charges 763 votes

Comments

ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE