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***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

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  • Registered Users Posts: 48 WIne Gums


    It may well be covered under the Social Welfare and Pensions Act 2014, but the Act is not signed into Law yet, and as the Dail has to pass it after it's return from Summer Holidays on 17 September 2014; then it needs to be signed into Law by President Higgins.
    My question is whether this will be done prior to the requirement by Irish Water for the return of the application. As of right now, they no entitlement to my PPSN.
    If a return is made to Irish Water prior to the Act becoming Law, and not indicating a PPSN, will any water allowance(s) be included or excluded in calculating the charges, and will these charges stand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,357 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Ah yeah. That's correct. It's a 'motor tax'.

    Guess what though, I could legally buy 100 cars, and never have to tax them unless I wish to drive them on an irish road.

    So it's a road tax in everything but the name.
    Likewise, you could have a 100 unmotorised road vehicles and not have to tax them.

    But we're digressing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 826 ✭✭✭geeksauce


    I think you're getting confused. I did call it motor tax.

    Have you a point:confused:

    Yes the point is that it is best to call it Motor Tax, thought that was pretty clear from my post where I said "best to call it Motor Tax"


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    Several thoughts in passing.

    Irish Water is the manner in which the politicians have decided to get rid of a political hot potato that wasn't going away, once IW is responsible for water, it will be considerably less liable to political influence and manipulation, which given historic experience is probably no bad thing. As to the validity of creating a semi state quango with overpaid ex civil servants running it, that's very much open to debate, given the manner in which the civil service has been able to avoid any degree or shade of responsibility or accountability for it's actions, inactions or failings.

    The "taxpayer" has been paying for water, the problem being that there are not enough taxpayers, there are apparently 1.9 million employed out of a population of just over 4 Million. By having a property based charge, the net widens, every property is liable, and if there's no residents, or it's a holiday home, it's still liable.

    There are several questions regarding allowances which I've not seen mentioned anywhere.

    What happens if a person has more than one property, do they get an allowance at each property?
    If a family has separated, and has children, can a proportion of the allowance be allocated to each parent, depending on how much time the child is resident at the property?
    Do non residents get an allowance?

    Given that just about every other country in the EU, and worldwide has some form of water charge, we've been lucky to get away without a specific water charge for this long, and the absence of a charge has encouraged poor practice both from the suppliers and the users.

    Hopefully new properties going forward will have "grey" water systems, and will be properly set up to minimise the use of potable water to the purposes it's needed for. In the same vein, hopefully, the local authorities WILL ensure that waste water and storm water is properly segregated so that we're not pushing huge quantities of rain water through expensive treatment works.

    I say hopefully, in that the big issue with too many of the semi states has been, and still is, the "it's not our remit", or "we don't have a budget for that" response. The semi states HAVE to be made responsible for and accountable for the services or systems that they supervise, in areas like waste water, and building regulations, and the like, and the concept of one individual signing off without inspections to ensure compliance has to be changed in order to get rid of the culture that has plagued areas like construction for too long.

    I've spent many long hours sorting out things like plumbing and electrical problems because the original installation was not carried out in an appropriate manner, across the board, in residential and commercial properties, and until that culture is changed, we will be haunted by ongoing problems with the quality of the environment we are living in.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    geeksauce wrote: »
    Yes the point is that it is best to call it Motor Tax, thought that was pretty clear from my post where I said "best to call it Motor Tax"

    You're arguing with yourself tbh.

    The very post of mine you quoted acknowledged that it is called motor tax. So I've no idea where you're going with this. :confused:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Maybe but the same old "thanks" brigade are very evident on all FG related posts.:rolleyes:

    I suppose the thanks brigade for the anti Government stuff doesn't really count whatsoever.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,667 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    K-9 wrote: »
    I suppose the thanks brigade for the anti Government stuff doesn't really count whatsoever.

    Oddly enough some of the names change on this one.;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,816 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Don't worry everyone. Turns out you don't need to give them any info after all!

    They'll just guess instead and send you the bill!
    Elizabeth Arnett, Irish Water Head of Communications explains what happens if you don't return the form by the deadline.

    She said: "If we don't hear back from people, we still have to send out bills. We'd prefer to do that to the right address with the right allowances.

    "If we don’t hear back from people, for whatever reason, we have to make an assumption then in relation to the water usage, and we have to make an assumption in terms of the number of people in the house."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Don't worry everyone. Turns out you don't need to give them any info after all!

    They'll just guess instead and send you the bill!

    Lol.

    Another clusterfcuk operation by FG and Labour. Always the cart before the horse and especially when there's money to be collected.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Davarus Walrus


    Lol.

    Another clusterfcuk operation by FG and Labour. Always the cart before the horse and especially when there's money to be collected.

    You do realise it's Irish Water doing this, and not your beloved government? It's rather like blaming Enda Kenny for an unexpected power cut due to ESB Networks maintenance.

    Whatever gets you through the day though.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭Wicklowrider


    You do realise it's Irish Water doing this, and not your beloved government? It's rather like blaming Enda Kenny for an unexpected power cut due to ESB Networks maintenance.

    Whatever gets you through the day though.

    and who gave the contract to Irish Water?

    C'mon, concentrate. You can work it out if you try hard.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    You do realise it's Irish Water doing this, and not your beloved government? It's rather like blaming Enda Kenny for an unexpected power cut due to ESB Networks maintenance.

    Whatever gets you through the day though.

    You forgot to add "neckbeards" and "mouthbreathers" in that one. Maybe consider an edit?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Lol.

    Another clusterfcuk operation by FG and Labour. Always the cart before the horse and especially when there's money to be collected.

    Another pointless blame the parties in government post. Irish Water is not the government parties. A cockup perhaps but blame the right people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    Has a commencement order for the amendments been made yet? If not I presume it would be a quick and easy thing to do anyway.

    The act has been passed in the Dail - (Enacted 17th July)
    http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/bills28/bills/2014/4714/document1.htm


  • Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭radia


    So Section 20 of the Social Welfare and Pensions Act 2014 passed in July inserted Irish Water into Schedule 5 of the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005, making it a 'specified body' under the Act.

    This in turn means that:
    Section 262 (4): A person shall give to a specified body his or her personal public service number and the personal public service numbers of his or her spouse and children, where relevant, as required by the body for the purposes of the person’s transaction.

    Irish Water's guide says:
    Question 9:
    If you are applying for the household water services allowance we require your PPS Number.
    Each household (a residential property with at least one resident) is eligible for a free allowance of 30,000 litres of water supplied and 30,000 litres for wastewater every year.
    Only one household water services allowance is available per occupied property.
    But what bugs me is that Irish Water doesn't really require my PPS number to give me a household allowance for my property. It's per property, not per person. :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    radia wrote: »
    It's per property, not per person. :mad:

    Don't you also get allowances for kids etc, so it can be per person.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,340 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Don't you also get allowances for kids etc, so it can be per person.

    ??


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,256 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    *lives in country... doesn't have to pay water charges*.... fup all yawl:cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    You do realise it's Irish Water doing this, and not your beloved government? It's rather like blaming Enda Kenny for an unexpected power cut due to ESB Networks maintenance.

    Whatever gets you through the day though.
    and who gave the contract to Irish Water?

    C'mon, concentrate. You can work it out if you try hard.
    You forgot to add "neckbeards" and "mouthbreathers" in that one. Maybe consider an edit?

    LOL

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    This Irish water crap is a farce.Just a big ol gravy train for some bureaucrats .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    :rolleyes:

    Sure it was only six weeks ago.

    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,485 ✭✭✭Red Alert


    The "free allowance" is a load of complete nonsense. There should be a simple (low) charge per litre and be done with it. The current system is just born out of the labour party's desire to have some welfare-state element to it that as usual favours families by making single people subsidise their free allowances.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Another pointless blame the parties in government post. Irish Water is not the government parties. A cockup perhaps but blame the right people.

    FG/lab are always quite happy to take credit when the troika implemented policies succeed.

    Yet whenever it's a cluster fcuk, `foisted on us by the troika' policy, it's wipe hands clean time.

    Explain :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Phoenix wrote: »
    Youre not modding AH anymore :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

    LOL, thought it was the one in politics.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    K-9 wrote: »
    LOL, thought it was the one in politics.

    Can we curse and swear at ye here with out your ban hammer so:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    and who gave the contract to Irish Water?

    C'mon, concentrate. You can work it out if you try hard.

    It went out to tender, above board right?
    Red Alert wrote: »
    The "free allowance" is a load of complete nonsense. There should be a simple (low) charge per litre and be done with it. The current system is just born out of the labour party's desire to have some welfare-state element to it that as usual favours families by making single people subsidise their free allowances.

    Its to have people scrabbling for their measly "free" allowance, a con to get people to sign up through fear of what they might be loaded with, rather than be upfront and treat people reasonably, they held off on what will be charged, reduced the allowance and have now if you dont give over your PPS no "free" allowance, just have a lower flat rate for usage per houshold, a right fcuk up as far as most ordinary people are concerned but a big win for IW.

    Why do they need a PPS? more to the point why do they need the PPS of everyone in the house??
    Bord Gais doesnt need my PPS, Electric Ireland Doesnt need my PPS, they are one bill per utility, one person named, fcuking allowances for this and that, scraps off the table and an excuse to charge/rip off people more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭chasm


    The application guide that is being issued in September, and which is available to read on the IW website states:

    "Each household (a residential property with at least one
    resident) is eligible for a free allowance of 30,000 litres of
    water supplied and 30,000 litres for wastewater every year.
    Only one household water services allowance is available per
    occupied property."
    http://www.water.ie/docs/Irish-Water-customer-application-guide_ENGLISH.pdf

    So is our allowance 30,000 or 60,000 litres per year? Or is it 30,000 if you have water and waste and 30,000 if you have waste only?


    Regarding the PPS number i'm assuming the reason we have to give those is due to the fact that there are free allowances being given, otherwise we would all suddenly acquire 5 kids overnight ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    chasm wrote: »
    The application guide that is being issued in September, and which is available to read on the IW website states:

    "Each household (a residential property with at least one
    resident) is eligible for a free allowance of 30,000 litres of
    water supplied and 30,000 litres for wastewater every year.
    Only one household water services allowance is available per
    occupied property."
    http://www.water.ie/docs/Irish-Water-customer-application-guide_ENGLISH.pdf

    So is our allowance 30,000 or 60,000 litres per year? Or is it 30,000 if you have water and waste and 30,000 if you have waste only?


    Regarding the PPS number i'm assuming the reason we have to give those is due to the fact that there are free allowances being given, otherwise we would all suddenly acquire 5 kids overnight ;)

    I'll have to read that yet, but why do they need the PPS of everyone to give the allowance of 30k litres, when only one allowance is allowed for? and why do they need it at all? I see what youre saying about PPS and numbers of children, but there are ways and means of working around that if you have access to a load of PPS number for children that may or may not be here, in which case just give every houshold an allowance, a flat rate allowance, or perhaps have people claim the children they have, and let IW go the Social Welfare and ask is it correct?, they only have to say yes or no, they dont need to hold the information, or maybe get your allowance through SW or Revenue who have your details and are state bodies.

    The whole allowance thing pishses me off, its got some kind of underhand scamming written on it, just give flat rate allowances to people/houses, its not like they are going to trade it on the fcuking black market.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭chasm


    cerastes wrote: »
    I'll have to read that yet, but why do they need the PPS of everyone to give the allowance of 30k litres, when only one allowance is allowed for? and why do they need it at all? I see what youre saying about PPS and numbers of children, but there are ways and means of working around that if you have access to a load of PPS number for children that may or may not be here, in which case just give every houshold an allowance, a flat rate allowance, or perhaps have people claim the children they have, and let IW go the Social Welfare and ask is it correct?, they only have to say yes or no, they dont need to hold the information, or maybe get your allowance through SW or Revenue who have your details and are state bodies.

    The whole allowance thing pishses me off, its got some kind of underhand scamming written on it, just give flat rate allowances to people/houses, its not like they are going to trade it on the fcuking black market.

    They will be checking the PPS numbers that are provided with SW. That link states:
    "PPS Numbers provided by you will be stored securely by
    Irish Water and will be verified with the Department of
    Social Protection to ensure your application is correct."

    From what i have read there is 1 household allowance, regardless of the number of adults and then additional allowances for each child -once they are verified them with SW.


This discussion has been closed.
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