Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )
Comments
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
Idbatterim wrote: »just reading a bit again about both projects. In terms of proposed savings we have
1. shorter platforms - a joke (honestly who ever even mentioned this for the pittance it will "save" i.e. 79,000,000 should be fired)
2. less rolling stock - fine just order less for original MN
3. drop a station - saving €131,000,000
4. ballymun track (see below and this issue will arise again)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Metro
my point being, the tracks may well again be ordered to go below ground in ballymun again, the dropping of stations is a compromise, so a five year delay and all of the costs incurred again, for an inferior scheme to save and I am laughing when I say save only a mere "131,000,000" potentially?!
why did they decide that a section would be above ground anyway?
0 -
-
-
-
Originally it was to reach the surface and run on elevated track from DCU to beyond the M50 and then another deep bore tunnel under the airport.
Then the residents complained and the govt got the checkbook out and decided to cut and cover a tunnel from DCU to the M50.
No we're back to surface running in the 'optimised metro plan'
It is significantly more expansive to build a cut and cover tunnel than it is to run on the surface, putting that section underground was only to appease nimbys, there wasn't a lack of space on the surface.
I think we're now getting at grade surface running i.e. metros will be stopping at junctions, go figure.
Point being if the thing was running underground everywhere else why would you put an overground section in it for one particular part of the route?
It's a bit rich to claim it's nimbysim when this thing would run underground through every other part of its route 0 -
Point being if the thing was running underground everywhere else why would you put an overground section in it for one particular part of the route?
It's a bit rich to claim it's nimbysim when this thing would run underground through every other part of its route
Cost, above ground is cheaper. The reason it's underground in the City Centre is because there is no space above ground. There is space on the Ballymun road, at least for an elevate structure, so surface running is possible there and cost effective.
The entire route is not underground, the Swords section is surface as are the rural parts either side of the airport.0 -
-
Cost, above ground is cheaper. The reason it's underground in the City Centre is because there is no space above ground. There is space on the Ballymun road, at least for an elevate structure, so surface running is possible there and cost effective.
The entire route is not underground, the Swords section is surface as are the rural parts either side of the airport.
It would have to make it through dorset street, drumcondra, griffith avenue, and glasnevin. All of which have roads that have a similar amount of space to the ballymun road 0 -
Not really. They are not as wide, not as straight and development is much closer to the edge of the road.Cost, above ground is cheaper. The reason it's underground in the City Centre is because there is no space above ground. There is space on the Ballymun road, at least for an elevate structure, so surface running is possible there and cost effective.
The entire route is not underground, the Swords section is surface as are the rural parts either side of the airport.
It would have to make it through dorset street, drumcondra, griffith avenue, and glasnevin. All of which have roads that have a similar amount of space to the ballymun road
Berlin's 'U-Bahn' (ie, underground way) started life on viaducts and still runs that way for large parts. Apparently going underground risked damaging the brand new sewers!0 -
It would have to make it through dorset street, drumcondra, griffith avenue, and glasnevin. All of which have roads that have a similar amount of space to the ballymun road
None of those roads have the central reserve space of the Ballymun road and none are positioned to allow a relatively straight line route.0 -
Advertisement
-
Not really. They are not as wide, not as straight and development is much closer to the edge of the road.
Berlin's 'U-Bahn' (ie, underground way) started life on viaducts and still runs that way for large parts. Apparently going underground risked damaging the brand new sewers!
You'll find most of the ballymun road is similar to drumcondra, griffith avenue or dorset street in terms of width, development and straightness.
Smacks of a the usual government thinking that there's there was money to be saved in the povvo neighborhood
Aside from that the bottleneck that a ground level rail line causes, having to contend with traffic, lights and speed limits would be something that you would want to avoid I imagine 0 -
-
-
You'll find most of the ballymun road is similar to drumcondra, griffith avenue or dorset street in terms of width, development and straightness.
Nope none of them do, there is no central reserve on any and there is no straight line road between Drumcondra station and the ballymun road.Aside from that the bottleneck that a ground level rail line causes, having to contend with traffic, lights and speed limits would be something that you would want to avoid I imagine
Yes and the elevated structure balances cost with that requirement. surface running is a cheaper again compromise.0 -
Nope none of them do, there is no central reserve on any and there is no straight line road between Drumcondra station and the ballymun road.
Yes and the elevated structure balances cost with that requirement. surface running is a cheaper again compromise.
Presuming the Ballymun road "reserve" you're on about is the pedestrian Island/Central row of trees, you also have two rows of trees on Griffith avenue taking up even more space (good luck with that
)
theres a "reserve" and pedestrian island up Dorset street to. There's a "reserve" through much of Drumcondra too. Like I said, the defining factor is more likely to be that the government thought they could get away with running it above ground through a council estate. No suprise there.
If you wanted to you could run most of the route above ground but why would you?
The sooner they bit the bullet on an underground system the better for dublin0 -
Presuming the Ballymun road "reserve" you're on about is the pedestrian Island/Central row of trees, you also have two rows of trees on Griffith avenue taking up even more space (good luck with that)
theres a "reserve" and pedestrian island up Dorset street to. There's a "reserve" through much of Drumcondra too.
I really don't think this is accurate. The Ballymun Road has a large (about two traffic lanes wide) central reservation that runs uninterrupted (save for junctions) for an entire 3.2km, all the way from the M50 to Griffith Avenue.
The trees on Griffith Avenue are at the *sides* of the roads, which is an entirely different prospect. It should also be noted that the trees there are much older and more established than the handful of small ones along the Ballymun Road (which really doesn't have a lot of trees for most of its length).
Dorset Street has a central reservation that's just about 1 traffic lane wide, but it is a substantially busier road, with really important and busy junctions that could not be interrupted (NCR, Whitworth Road, etc.), and more importantly, the reservation is barely 500m in length and ends abruptly right after the Drumcondra railway bridge (which in itself might be another obstacle?).
Where do you propose this overground line would run for the 2km between that railway bridge and Griffith Avenue?0 -
Presuming the Ballymun road "reserve" you're on about is the pedestrian Island/Central row of trees, you also have two rows of trees on Griffith avenue taking up even more space (good luck with that)
theres a "reserve" and pedestrian island up Dorset street to. There's a "reserve" through much of Drumcondra too. Like I said, the defining factor is more likely to be that the government thought they could get away with running it above ground through a council estate. No suprise there.
If you wanted to you could run most of the route above ground but why would you?
The trees on the side of griffith avenue are an entirely different prospect, you'd be taking pedestrian space away for a wider road, the central reserve on Dorset Street is narrow and only 300m long.
What surface route would you propose for metro north? what sharp bends would have to be taken?0 -
I really don't think this is accurate. The Ballymun Road has a large (about two traffic lanes wide) central reservation that runs uninterrupted (save for junctions) for an entire 3.2km, all the way from the M50 to Griffith Avenue.
The trees on Griffith Avenue are at the *sides* of the roads, which is an entirely different prospect. It should also be noted that the trees there are much older and more established than the handful of small ones along the Ballymun Road (which really doesn't have a lot of trees for most of its length).
Dorset Street has a central reservation that's just about 1 traffic lane wide, but it is a substantially busier road, with really important and busy junctions that could not be interrupted (NCR, Whitworth Road, etc.), and more importantly, the reservation is barely 500m in length and ends abruptly right after the Drumcondra railway bridge (which in itself might be another obstacle?).
Where do you propose this overground line would run for the 2km between that railway bridge and Griffith Avenue?
Notwithstanding your assertion that the good people of griffith avenue have a god given right to greenery that their near neighbors don't hop on google maps and take a look at the central median of the ballymun road then compare it to dorset street.
It's barely one lane in places. If you could run a train service up that median without completely taking out other lanes there you could run it up any of the other sites.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
Notwithstanding your assertion that the good people of griffith avenue have a god given right to greenery that their near neighbors don't hop on google maps and take a look at the central median of the ballymun road then compare it to dorset street.
It's barely one lane in places. If you could run a train service up that median without completely taking out other lanes there you could run it up any of the other sites.
What surface route you propose from Drumcondra?0 -
-
-
Notwithstanding your assertion that the good people of griffith avenue have a god given right to greenery that their near neighbors don't hop on google maps and take a look at the central median of the ballymun road then compare it to dorset street.
It's barely one lane in places. If you could run a train service up that median without completely taking out other lanes there you could run it up any of the other sites.
Firstly, I didn't assert anything like that, so please don't put words in my mouth. I said that the trees are older and more established on Griffith Avenue, which is objectively true. My concern isn't about the poor poor residents of either area, but that while you can relocate smaller trees, it's basically impossible to do so with larger ones, so the only option would be to kill them all. Not a great option imo.
As for your comparison of Dorset Street to the Ballymun Road - you've (perhaps intentionally) taken a screenshot of one of the minor turning lanes along the central reservation, which ironically handily illustrates that there is indeed about 2 traffic lanes of width to the reservation for most of this road (ie. the grass area ahead of the turning lane). Those kinds of turning lanes would be easily closed up, given that adequate turnaround opportunities exist at bigger junctions along the same road.
Dorset Street has less width on its reservation even *before* you add the turning lanes along that road into account. And that's before you take into account obstacles like this:
You haven't accounted for that stretch of road through Drumcondra where is *no* central reservation. Or how about outside the Cat and Cage pub, which was just recently rescued from congestion thanks to bus lanes being squeezed into the last bit of space? Would you undo that good work?
What about the relative usage of both roads? Ballymun Road is relatively lightly used, whereas Dorset Street/Drumcondra is a major route out of the city towards the M1 or the airport.
There's no comparison, Ballymun Road is a much more sensible route for Metro North.
NIMBY arguments here are bizarre too imo - Ballymun will hugely benefit from having MN running through it.0 -
What about the relative usage of both roads? Ballymun Road is relatively lightly used, whereas Dorset Street/Drumcondra is a major route out of the city towards the M1 or the airport.
There's no comparison, Ballymun Road is a much more sensible route for Metro North.
NIMBY arguments here are bizarre too imo - Ballymun will hugely benefit from having MN running through it.
I've never actually said what form of metro I want to see, on street, under or above. I would be agnostic about the above or below ground options in general but I think any on street section in a built up area is completely mental.
What I'm pointing out is the idea that there is some unique qualities to the ballymun road that makes it ideal for a street level rail system is absolute guff. You have the same issues on the ballymun road as you will on all those other roads, the defining factor is that the planners thought they could get away with saving a few bob going through a council estate, which is why it was only going to surface after it hits DCU
Dorset street has a median running through it that would be rougly the same size as the one that runs up much of the ballymun road, it ends just before your screen shot 0 -
Dorset street has a median running through it that would be rougly the same size as the one that runs up much of the ballymun road, it ends just before your screen shot
It absolutely doesn't - you can't just outright lie when Streetview immediately proves you wrong. Again, the Dorset Street reservation starts in a heavily built-up, heavily trafficked area which can't be easily reached from anywhere and ends about 500m later in the same. It's completely incomparable to Ballymun.
What makes the Ballymun Road so suited to surface running is the space in the median, the relative lack of major junctions, the low traffic density, and the fact that the median runs for a substantial distance out as far as the M50.
But you've failed to address any of the pertinent questions put to you, so I guess you'll just ignore this post too.0 -
Advertisement
-
-
the defining factor is that the planners thought they could get away with saving a few bob going through a council estate, which is why it was only going to surface after it hits DCU
Also, I'll point out that you keep saying this like it's a negative for Ballymun to get Metro North running through it. The benefits for the area would be far outweighed by any possible detrimental effects of surface running.0 -
I've never actually said what form of metro I want to see, on street, under or above. I would be agnostic about the above or below ground options in general but I think any on street section in a built up area is completely mental.
What I'm pointing out is the idea that there is some unique qualities to the ballymun road that makes it ideal for a street level rail system is absolute guff. You have the same issues on the ballymun road as you will on all those other roads, the defining factor is that the planners thought they could get away with saving a few bob going through a council estate, which is why it was only going to surface after it hits DCU
Dorset street has a median running through it that would be rougly the same size as the one that runs up much of the ballymun road, it ends just before your screen shot
Could you please propose a surface route between Dorset St and the Ballymun Road?0 -
To be brutally honest it's this sort of mentality that allows our politicians to build nothing.I've never actually said what form of metro I want to see, on street, under or above. I would be agnostic about the above or below ground options in general but I think any on street section in a built up area is completely mental.
What I'm pointing out is the idea that there is some unique qualities to the ballymun road that makes it ideal for a street level rail system is absolute guff. You have the same issues on the ballymun road as you will on all those other roads, the defining factor is that the planners thought they could get away with saving a few bob going through a council estate, which is why it was only going to surface after it hits DCU
Dorset street has a median running through it that would be rougly the same size as the one that runs up much of the ballymun road, it ends just before your screen shot0 -
-
Advertisement
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement