Q.1 -Why dont women approach men theyre attracted to? + Other enquiries

brianthebard · 27-08-2008 5:47pm

Hmm, well at least the poem is direct! Um, maybe there might be better poems, but wouldn't go with a yeats though.

Ok in between, thats hard. I'm trying to think of what has worked for me, or what girls have used on me. I've been asked if they could kiss me, and I think I've asked girls if I can kiss them, obviously this is after some flirty conversation or whatever. If you are looking for a date instead, why not ask a guy what he likes to do for fun? (actually once you get to dublin the answer will probably be going on the lash). Or ask for their number or something. Ugh, its been a while for me, but the (fairly) direct approach was always the most successful in my experience.

Pen1987 · 27-08-2008 8:00pm

Why doesnt giving the eyes work?

Men have a diffirent type of sight to women. Women have 75% better perifiel (sp) vision than men. Men have 75% better central vision than women. Its due to caveman/woman days when men needed to see detail in the distance to notice herds and flocks moving on the horizon, while women needed to notice whats around them to stop predetors entering the nest to attack the children.

Basically that means men might see you giving them the eyes but they dont register it. Women could be standing there thinking 'why the hell is he not coming over... im being so blatant', its because he can only see tunnel vision compared to you. This is also why men wonder how women catch them checking out their tits, they think theyre being cunning by doing it when she looks away but she can see through the back of her head compared to him. Its also why men never catch women checking out their bodies even though research shows women prev on mens bodies more than men perv on womens.

Whats an inbetween way of letting him know youre interested in him?

When youve been talking to him for a few mintues begin asking about him, men love their ego stroked in subtle ways (personally I hate, 'youre hot' and much prefer 'really, so do you like doing your job? whats the best part? it sounds really interesting...' - by the way, dont ask about jobs within the first stage of conversation I think it seems golddigger-y)... then if he seems interested seperate him from his friends, THIS is the key - its blatent 'I like you' without saying 'I like you' blatently... even a man will recognise this as an 'I like you'... e.g ask him to come to the bar/smoking area with you, just you two, then when you get a drink stay at the bar and chat... he should have taken the hint from there, if he hasnt hes seriously nervous and either really likes you, or is really shy.

Question for the ladies:

If a bloke comes over to your group to talk to you, maybe with his friend/s and one of your friends takes a shine to him, but hes not into her, would you give him your number (or allow him chat you up in front of her) if he managed to ask you subtley without your friend knowing?...

I ask because it seems to happen week-in-week-out, I approach a group of women, I like one specific girl - then her friend (usually tipsy) takes a huge shine to me and wont go away, so I behave in what believe to be the gentlemanly way and excuse myself from the whole group without letting the one I like know that I'm interested... should I just shoot down the friend and go for her or what?

LolaLuv · 27-08-2008 8:06pm

Pen1987 wrote: »

Why doesnt giving the eyes work?

Men have a diffirent type of sight to women. Women have 75% better perifiel (sp) vision than men. Men have 75% better central vision than women. Its due to caveman/woman days when men needs to see detail in the distance to notice herds and flocks moving on the horizon, while women needed to notice whats around them to stop predetors entering the nest to attack the children.

Basically that means men might see you giving them the eyes but they dont register it. Women could be standing there thinking 'why the hell is he not coming over... im being so blatant', its because he can only see tunnel vision compared to you. This is also why men wonder how women catch them checking out their tits, they think theyre being cunning doing it when she looks away but she can see through the back of her head compared to him. Its also why men never catch women checking out their bodies even though research shows women prev on mens bodies more than men perv on womens.

Whats an inbetween way of letting him know youre interested in him?

When youve been talking to him for a few mintues begin asking about him, men love their ego stroked in subtle ways (personally I hate, 'youre hot' and much prefer 'really, so do you like doing your job? whats the best part? it sounds really interesting...' - by the way, dont ask about jobs within the first stage of conversation I think it seems golddigger-y)... then if he seems interested seperate him from his friends, THIS is the key - its blatent 'I like you' without saying 'I like you' blatently... even a man will recognise this as an 'I like you'... ask him to come to the bar/smoking area with you, just you two, then when you get a drink stay at the bar and chat... he should have taken the hint from there, if he hasnt hes seriously nervous and either really likes you, or is really shy.

Question for the ladies:

If a bloke comes over to your group to talk to you, maybe with his friend/s and one of your friends takes a shine to him, but hes not into her, would you give him your number (or allow him chat you up in front of her) if he managed to ask you subtley without your friend knowing?... I ask because it seems to happen week-in-week-out, I approach a group of women, I like one specific girl - then her friend (usually tipsy) takes a huge shine to me and wont go away, so I behave in what believe to be the gentlemanly way and excuse myself from the whole group without letting the one I like know that I'm interested... should I just shoot down the friend and go for her or what?

Personally, I'd never stroke a guy's ego to get him. Please. Unless it's genuine, but that just seems icky to me. I wouldn't want a guy who needed that, tbh.

About your question, you can't shoot down a girl's friend and expect to get the girl. That's just not cool. Better to let the girl handle it. If she wants to see you again, she'll make sure her friend is fine with ti.

Pen1987 · 27-08-2008 8:53pm

I dont mean stroking his ego in the way I think you think I do. I'm not talking about stuff like 'Youre so fine, I want you in bed right now!' or 'wow... do you work out?' type stuff. I mean very basic natural stuff like 'what do you do?... really, do you enjoy it?' , enquire about him, its a boost to anyones, not only male, ego to think somebody else cares enough about their life to ask about it. It doesnt even need the use of compliments, its basic interest in the other persons life thats the 'stroking of ego' part.

Re: your response...

I'm in a bar, I approach a group of women... maybe 5 girls. I know in my head the girl I like, I get talking to the group as a group but when I'm speaking and asking questions I maintain eye contact with the girl I like (call her girl 1)... then I get a response to my question from the group as a whole, but I take girl1's reply and use that to base my next question on.

Eg. I was on holidays with three female friends a few weeks ago and realised how much make-up and bronzer etc costs (LOADS), then last week I was out in town and I'm chatting away to a group of girls and something comes up so I said..

'yeah I only realised how much it costs you lot to get ready for a night out there a few weeks back, my friend said she bought a foundation brush for 40euro! I mean, how much did you's pay for yours? Its basically a paint bursh to my eyes, I'd get one for a fiver...'

Each girl involved replied, I think one said 20euro, girl1 said 35euro and another said she had a really expensive one from prada or something that cost 60euro... obviously I should of taken the girl who had the most expensive one and enquired about that, but I took girl1's answer to base my next question... 'YOU PAID 35euro for a paintbursh!' - then addressing the group 'are you lot millionaires? really, be honest...' - so I hadnt ignored her friend but I'd really just made the conversation a one2one with me and girl1... clearly I'm showing her and her friends I pretty much only interested in her, right... right? Conversation continues like this, were both enjoying it and the rest are either talking amongst themselves or listening to us and nodding etc, adding little to the chat

Then a few minutes later her friend starts cutting across girl1s answers to my questions, talking over us to get into our conversation, going as far as to stand in my eyeline to girl1 and touching me constantly when I speak, attempting to start a one2one chat with me by ignoring girl1 and to stop me 'moving in' to make the conversation more intimate with girl1.

So I politely cut myself out of the group, return to my friends. As far as I'm concerned myself and girl1 were interested in each other, so her friend had forced me away by trying to 'steal' me from her.

You mean its not cool for me to return to girl1 later on and continue our chat when her friend is at the bar or dancefloor etc, or even when her friend is there but on the other side of the group (out of earshot or influence i.e. she'd have to be REALLY obvious if she wanted to interrupt again), and maybe ask her for her number?

****... if the one of my friends did that with a girl who approached me I'd be pissed off and want her to come back so we could chat again, maybe thats a guy thing though?

Wibbs · 27-08-2008 8:58pm

Women can be much more socially competitive than men. With each other. That's my experience anyway. If one woman in a group is interested in you, it's much easier to raise interest in one of the others in the group. Certainly when compared to male friends.

brianthebard · 27-08-2008 9:02pm

Sounds like its your own fault man, you involved yourself in the group, you can't complain if one of the group wants to chat to you. Although from the sounds of things, you may be one girl interested in you, and four or five thinking you are an ignorant prick who ignores what they have to say. Great way to get the girls friends to dislike you immediately but apart from that it doesn't really sound like a strategy.

LolaLuv · 27-08-2008 9:03pm

Pen1987 wrote: »

I dont mean stroking his ego in the way I think you think I do. I'm not talking about stuff like 'Youre so fine, I want you in bed right now!' or 'wow... do you work out?' type stuff. I mean very basic natural stuff like 'what do you do?... really, do you enjoy it?' , enquire about him, its a boost to anyones, not only male, ego to think somebody else cares enough about their life to ask about it. It doesnt even need the use of compliments, its basic interest in the other persons life thats the 'stroking of ego' part.

Re: your response...

I'm in a bar, I approach a group of women... maybe 5 girls. I know in my head the girl I like, I get talking to the group as a group but when I'm speaking and asking questions I maintain eye contact with the girl I like (call her girl 1)... then I get a response to my question from the group as a whole, but I take girl1's reply and use that to base my next question on.

Eg. I was on holidays with three female friends a few weeks ago and realised how much make-up and bronzer etc costs (LOADS), then last week I was out in town and I'm chatting away to a group of girls and something comes up so I said..

'yeah I only realised how much it costs you lot to get ready for a night out there a few weeks back, my friend said she bought a foundation brush for 40euro! I mean, how much did you's pay for yours? Its basically a paint bursh to my eyes, I'd get one for a fiver...'

Each girl involved replied, I think one said 20euro, girl1 said 35euro and another said she had a really expensive one from prada or something that cost 60euro... obviously I should of taken the girl who had the most expensive one and enquired about that, but I took girl1's answer to base my next question... 'YOU PAID 35euro for a paintbursh!' - then addressing the group 'are you lot millionaires? really, be honest...' - so I hadnt ignored her friend but I'd really just made the conversation a one2one with me and girl1... clearly I'm showing her and her friends I pretty much only interested in her, right... right? Conversation continues like this, were both enjoying it and the rest are either talking amongst themselves or listening to us and nodding etc, adding little to the chat

Then a few minutes later her friend starts cutting across girl1s answers to my questions, talking over us to get into our conversation, going as far as to stand in my eyeline to girl1 and touching me constantly when I speak, attempting to start a one2one chat with me by ignoring girl1 and to stop me 'moving in' to make the conversation more intimate with girl1.

So I politely cut myself out of the group, return to my friends. As far as I'm concerned myself and girl1 were interested in each other, so her friend had forced me away by trying to 'steal' me from her.

You mean its not cool for me to return to girl1 later on and continue our chat when her friend is at the bar or dancefloor etc, or even when her friend is there but on the other side of the group (out of earshot or influence i.e. she'd have to be REALLY obvious if she wanted to interrupt again), and maybe ask her for her number?

****... if the one of my friends did that with a girl who approached me I'd be pissed off and want her to come back so we could chat again, maybe thats a guy thing though?

Tbh, it sounds a little rude to approach a group like that and ignore half the responses to center on the girl you like. It would be better to approach the girl you like and start a convo with her individually, like ask to buy her a drink or something. But I'm American and apparently there are big differences in the ways Americans deal with dating vs. the Irish, so you might want to get a response from a native.

Although it isn't rude at all to get the girl aside and get her information. There's a whole style to what you're doing and I don't have the patience to explain over the internet.

As for the friend who kept cutting in, sounds a little pathetic on her part. I have no idea what's up with that. Maybe the girl you liked always gets the attention and pathetico had had enough?

brianthebard · 27-08-2008 9:03pm

You involved yourself in the groups conversation man, you can't complain if more than one of them wants to chat. Although it sounds like you could easily piss off all the girls you aren't interested in, and have them think you are an ignorant prick that doesn't answer them. Great way to make a girls friends hate you I'd say.

Pen1987 · 27-08-2008 9:11pm

Ah no I did answer them, I didnt ignore them, I just centered the conversation around her for the most part... I answered their questions but then began to branch off, I wasnt ignoring everyone else just applying more of my attention to her than the others, like 70% over the four others 30% her. I dunno, maybe it just felt like that and I was being a prick to the rest... still doesnt explain why her friend got all after me like that, surely if I seemed like a prick for ignoring her then I wouldnt be worth going after.

Re: Wibbs. Its strange that women are more socially competitive, I try to look for logic in these things but cant find any... according to evolution men should be more competitive because they need a woman to raise and nurture their children, where as women just need a shag and they can pretty much handle it... Lifes mad!

I like this thread. I hope more people start asking these Ask-Men/Ask-Women questions.

LolaLuv · 27-08-2008 9:16pm

Pen1987 wrote: »

Ah no I did answer them, I didnt ignore them, I just centered the conversation around her for the most part... I answered their questions but then began to branch off, I wasnt ignoring everyone else just applying more of my attention to her than the others, like 70% over the four others 30% her. I dunno, maybe it just felt like that and I was being a prick to the rest... still doesnt explain why her friend got all after me like that, surely if I seemed like a prick for ignoring her then I wouldnt be worth going after.

Re: Wibbs. Its strange that women are more socially competitive, I try to look for logic in these things but cant find any... according to evolution men should be more competitive because they need a woman to raise and nurture their children, where as women just need a shag and they can pretty much handle it... Lifes mad!

I like this thread. I hope more people start asking these Ask-Men/Ask-Women questions.

But the problem is you ignored the foundation that was more expensive and focused on the other girl. That's just way too obvious and very rude. The way to get a girl to like you is not to be rude to her friends, unless she's a bitch, and why would you want that? Plus, since it's too obvious, it can appear that you're trying to hard and that tends to be a turn-off. Tbh, my first thought when I read about the other girl's behavior was that she was trying to get rid of you. Nobody knows except her though.

I like this thread too, pretty interesting.

bennyblanco · 27-08-2008 9:40pm

Hi all,yes indeed fascinating thread.
I was recently reading that the way in with a group at least is to basically focus on the girl's friends first and make them laugh/be charming etc then switch to the one that your after at a suitable moment.Obviously the book said it better than me :pac: but you get my drift.
To go straight for your intended (ah yknow what I mean) is way too obvious and like pilly said,maybe a little rude?insomuch as suddenly isolating one person to talk to in a group situation kind of goes against the natural dynamic for a a stranger entering no?(unless they're a messenger or servant or..or...or.....well I'm babbling now)

Wibbs · 27-08-2008 9:43pm

Pen1987 wrote: »

Re: Wibbs. Its strange that women are more socially competitive, I try to look for logic in these things but cant find any... according to evolution men should be more competitive because they need a woman to raise and nurture their children, where as women just need a shag and they can pretty much handle it... Lifes mad!

Yes and no. It depends on where in the competition curve you look I reckon. Look at our very early history. There would have been fewer men than women, due to more dying in childhood, more dying because of trauma from wild animals, war etc. Add to that competition among the males to get more females In this competition there are winners. Older more resource rich men. When a man gets to that point he has to maintain his status not fight for it so much.

Looking at other primates and their mating habits, willy and nut size is related to the reproductive strategies each species employs. Gorillas have tiny willies and nuts as they have harems of females where they are in control and the females compete with each other for the attention of the male.

Chimps have huge nuts as the females are much more sexually available to males and will mate with low status males, so the chimp male has to try and guarantee conception of his offspring.

Humans lay in the middle. We've the biggest willies(yay!:)) and nuts in the mid range. This suggests that human males will if given the chance run small harems of females, but can also be monogamous. Women are unusual in primates as they show no outward sign of their fertile time which is probably a defence mechanism to keep the mans interest. Polygamy itself is nearly always a man with many women, not the other way around.

So basically if a high status man shows up, women are more likely to compete with each other to get him. Their biology tells them he's a good bet. It could be why some go for married men. They may see it as a challenge, but it could be their primitive bits telling them he's a good bet as another woman considers him worthy of reproducing with her. Marriage being a marker of that.

There's also the paternity issue. No male knows for certain that the child his partner bears is his(unless with dna test). So to make absolutely sure he will tend to pick a woman that is less likely to be promiscuous. So if she is attracting the attention of too many men that may be a point against her in his primitive eyes. Same with many cultures espousing the virtues of virginity in women etc. A virgin guarantees paternity. This is the basis for the double standard in sexuality.

But a woman knows the child she gave birth to is hers, so a different reproductive strategy is in play. A man with other women on the go, while not ideal is not rejected out of hand if he's a high value male. If she conceives a child with him, she knows its hers. A woman with other men on the go is far less attractive to a man as he can't be sure he's investing resources into his child.

It's not that simplistic of course. Culture, our own minds etc play into it and it's so much more subtle but it is amazing how much goes on under the surface.

If you don't believe this subtle stuff....
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-08/uol-cpi081108.php

The long winded version;
http://journals.royalsociety.org/content/f542428772r96x64/?p=f0ac030e28664c11b86b302440ff9fa2&pi=6

27-08-2008 9:45pm

I wouldn't approach a man, because I think it is nice to let them do the picking.
It affirms their machismo to let them think they are winning you over.

Also I'm a little bit too full on when I get an idea in my head.
I don't think I would be very good at taking no for an answer.

I don't scope out talent. Maybe I should start!

Attraction for me is a chemical reaction. I often mistake attraction for serious dislike. I tend to insult men I fancy at first.
I am more attracted to quiet types.

Curlypinkie · 27-08-2008 10:08pm

Wel if I waited for some man to approach me I'll be waiting forever it seems. I really don't have the patience so I will start doing the talking. Still haven't tried it out tho, still building courage

So it's all down to shyness on my part.

What do I see in a man.. well first and foremost if he is confident and is having fun. But a quiet lad can also catch my attention. I think it's all about the body language. And the body heh. So yeah there has to be some sort of physical attraction. Secondly, if he stands up - this obviously only applies if yer one is sitting down - and is tall enough, that will take him to level two. If I may use that analogy.
Level 3 would of course be the talking. He has to have the gift of the gab. And that's it I think, the rest is down to The Spark.

LolaLuv · 27-08-2008 10:09pm

Curlypinkie wrote: »

Wel if I waited for some man to approach me I'll be waiting forever it seems. I really don't have the patience so I will start doing the talking. Still haven't tried it out tho, still building courage
So it's all down to shyness on my part.

What do I see in a man.. well first and foremost if he is confident and is having fun. But a quiet lad can also catch my attention. I think it's all about the body language. And the body heh. So yeah there has to be some sort of physical attraction. Secondly, if he stands up - this obviously only applies if yer one is sitting down - and is tall enough, that will take him to level two. If I may use that analogy.
Level 3 would of course be the talking. He has to have the gift of the gab. And that's it I think, the rest is down to The Spark.

Curlypinkie speaks the truth!

27-08-2008 10:15pm

I don't know there is something knee trembling about strong silent types.

The Recliner · 27-08-2008 10:16pm

Us quiet shy guys are doomed to solitude it seems

LolaLuv · 27-08-2008 10:17pm

Moonbaby wrote: »

I don't know there is something knee trembling about strong silent types.

I agree. But I feel like the novelty would wear off. I like talking about feelings and having a laugh and all that. I'm not sure how sustainable a relationship with a quiet man would be.

Curlypinkie · 27-08-2008 10:20pm

I'm a shy girl!!!
But I will work on that, it seems so much more fun to be a little bit less shy!
Not very quiet tho I have to say....:o a chatterbox.

Wibbs · 27-08-2008 10:27pm

Curlypinkie wrote: »

Wel if I waited for some man to approach me I'll be waiting forever it seems. I really don't have the patience so I will start doing the talking. Still haven't tried it out tho, still building courage
So it's all down to shyness on my part.

What do I see in a man.. well first and foremost if he is confident and is having fun. But a quiet lad can also catch my attention. I think it's all about the body language. And the body heh. So yeah there has to be some sort of physical attraction. Secondly, if he stands up - this obviously only applies if yer one is sitting down - and is tall enough, that will take him to level two. If I may use that analogy.
Level 3 would of course be the talking. He has to have the gift of the gab. And that's it I think, the rest is down to The Spark.

That seems sensible enough as PillyPen noted. As for chatterbox, you're clearly a rank amateur. Have you seen my second last post?

MJOR · 27-08-2008 10:37pm

Righto, from a confidence in my appearance perspective( i aint exactly angelina) I'd be too scared that they might think I'm not attractive enough. Then having said that usually I am approached by a guy that always says something along the lines of "Hi ye look like ye are having a good laugh whats so funny" (i am a giggler).
So in short what I am saying is I'd be too morto and usually get an oul drink or something bought for me at some stage during a night out. I suppose while I am not gods gift lol i am a good laugh and am spoken for now too which gives you a certain aura or glow maybe i don't know

LolaLuv · 27-08-2008 10:43pm

MJOR wrote: »

Righto, from a confidence in my appearance perspective( i aint exactly angelina) I'd be too scared that they might think I'm not attractive enough. Then having said that usually I am approached by a guy that always says something along the lines of "Hi ye look like ye are having a good laugh whats so funny" (i am a giggler).
So in short what I am saying is I'd be too morto and usually get an oul drink or something bought for me at some stage during a night out. I suppose while I am not gods gift lol i am a good laugh and am spoken for now too which gives you a certain aura or glow maybe i don't know

I agree with this! The only problem I have with approaching men is wondering if they'll find me hideous. But you're right, if you're witty and fun it generally doesn't matter.

Also, I don't approach men if they haven't even looked at me. There should be some sort of signal at least.

brianthebard · 27-08-2008 10:43pm

Ok this is starting to annoy me a little. Ye aren't confident in your appearances, which is fair enough, because just about everyone is a bit insecure in that respect. So rather than put any effort in yourselves, you let the guys take on all that insecurity, body issues, etc, and let them do the asking? And then wonder why the guy who you've "subtlely" given the eyes to or whatever doesn't have the courage to go across and talk to you? FFS, it really is a wonder anyone ever got laid ever.

27-08-2008 10:47pm

The Comfortable Chair wrote: »

Us quiet shy guys are doomed to solitude it seems

Does that mean you don't approach women?

LolaLuv · 27-08-2008 10:48pm

brianthebard wrote: »

Ok this is starting to annoy me a little. Ye aren't confident in your appearances, which is fair enough, because just about everyone is a bit insecure in that respect. So rather than put any effort in yourselves, you let the guys take on all that insecurity, body issues, etc, and let them do the asking? And then wonder why the guy who you've "subtlely" given the eyes to or whatever doesn't have the courage to go across and talk to you? FFS, it really is a wonder anyone ever got laid ever.

Whoa, I said I DO approach men. And IF I didn't, that'd be why. It's like you said, everyone is insecure a bit, but I don't let it stop me. Jaysus. And the only case under which I wouldn't approach a man is if he hasn't looked at me once. Tbh, I think it would be creepy to go up to a guy who didn't even know you were in the room until just that moment. No one's putting anything on guys here.

27-08-2008 10:53pm

PillyPen wrote: »

I agree. But I feel like the novelty would wear off. I like talking about feelings and having a laugh and all that. I'm not sure how sustainable a relationship with a quiet man would be.

I didn't quite mean strong that way, I meant comfortable with themselves and their silence.
Irish men are emotional creatures....maybe all men are.

Your worried that men who are quiet in social settings are quiet all the time?

The Recliner · 27-08-2008 10:55pm

Moonbaby wrote: »

Does that mean you don't approach women?

Well as has been made clear in this thread you really don't have a choice but to approach women but it would take a lot more effort for me to make a move than someone who is naturally more gregarious and outgoing

But being that bit shy and not thinking that a girl would be interested I would tend to chat to girls more than chat them up which would explain how I end up with many more girl friends than girlfriends

And has been pointed out girls would be more drawn towards more confident outgoing guys which is fair enough

LolaLuv · 27-08-2008 10:55pm

Moonbaby wrote: »

I didn't quite mean strong that way, I meant comfortable with themselves and their silence.
Irish men are emotional creatures....maybe all men are.

Your worried that men who are quiet in social settings are quiet all the time?

Not, not necessarily. I thought you meant strong silent types like Clint Eastwood. I can't see much riling that man up.

27-08-2008 10:56pm

brianthebard wrote: »

Ok this is starting to annoy me a little. Ye aren't confident in your appearances, which is fair enough, because just about everyone is a bit insecure in that respect. So rather than put any effort in yourselves, you let the guys take on all that insecurity, body issues, etc, and let them do the asking? And then wonder why the guy who you've "subtlely" given the eyes to or whatever doesn't have the courage to go across and talk to you? FFS, it really is a wonder anyone ever got laid ever.

I'm over friendly and sometimes men mistake that for flirting.
They are almost without exception utterly terrified by the idea.

27-08-2008 10:57pm

PillyPen wrote: »

Not, not necessarily. I thought you meant strong silent types like Clint Eastwood. I can't see much riling that man up.

How would that get old exactly?

Q.1 -Why dont women approach men theyre attracted to? + Other enquiries

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