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Luas - lack of security

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    #32
    How Soon Is Now
    Registered Users Posts: 13,083 ✭✭✭✭How Soon Is Now


    stehyl15 wrote: »
    Pickpockets and junkies are a problem in every main train station in the world nothing new and unique to ireland they should not have security as they should not be classed as private property

    It's not just them it's all kinds.

    If there was security there it would stop a lot of this because a lot of it happens because there's no one there to scare them or tell them otherwise.

    Its like leaving a class room full of kids or teens unattended for to long they go crazy and get up to all kinds.

    For every normal journey I have on the red line there's two that involve some sort of anti social crap and it's the paying customers that have to deal with it.


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    #33
    stehyl15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    How Soon Is Now wrote: »
    It's not just them it's all kinds.

    If there was security there it would stop a lot of this because a lot of it happens because there's no one there to scare them or tell them otherwise.

    Its like leaving a class room full of kids or teens unattended for to long they go crazy and get up to all kinds.

    For every normal journey I have on the red line there's two that involve some sort of anti social crap and it's the paying customers that have to deal with it.

    This is why i hate the public transport system in this country because people think they are customers on trams/trains because they so shagging over-priced. Public transport is for everyone including toerags unfortunately i dont mind being on a tram where everyone is killing each other once its cheap tbh. This why i have a problem with companies like veoila runing the luas i think that fares should just be there to cover the fuel/electricity costs and drivers wages i do not like profit making companies running our public transport. They are not there to make a profit they there to provide a service.


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    #34
    How Soon Is Now
    Registered Users Posts: 13,083 ✭✭✭✭How Soon Is Now


    stehyl15 wrote: »
    This is why i hate the public transport system in this country because people think they are customers on trams/trains because they so shagging over-priced. Public transport is for everyone including toerags unfortunately i dont mind being on a tram where everyone is killing each other once its cheap tbh. This why i have a problem with companies like veoila runing the luas i think that fares should just be there to cover the fuel/electricity costs and drivers wages i do not like profit making companies running our public transport. They are not there to make a profit they there to provide a service.

    I wouldn't mind paying a bit more if it meant the whole service was run correctly for everyone.

    It's basic stuff it's not fair on the staff or the customers to have wanker s making there jobs/trip ****. Everyone has a right to use it and avail of it but everyone has a right to a safe some what comfortable trip as well.

    As it is its better value then the bus and a quicker service but at times there's no control on the Luas or at the stops.

    Like I said before one of these days something very serious will happen and then everyone will be questioning the system when it's to late.....


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    #35
    mickoc
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭mickoc


    after reading and hearing everything about the Luas red line I thank the stars I have never had to travel on it. it obviously has a **** load of problems and anyone that says otherwise should probably count themselves lucky. I am sure everyone that has ever travelled on it has felt some edge at some stage.


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    #36
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    How Soon Is Now wrote: »
    Someone will be seriously injured or hurt someday maybe then they will take notice which is stupid.

    I mean what I watched was just a simple example today that wouldn't of happend if there where a few heavys around.

    One Luas driver on his own can't sort these situations out.


    Isn't that the way Ireland works though, no point addressing obvious problems until someone gets killed, then the hand wringing starts but little changes.

    Transport police are what is required private security are next to useless in reality and the people causing the problems no they can do SFA.

    Transport police and undercover transport police so scumbags never know when the tram is actually being policed and have to presume it always is.


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    #37
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Bus conductors used to keep order on buses and it worked well. In Holland recently I encountered conductors on trams. No need for gardai, a conductor should be enough.


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    #38
    stehyl15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Bus conductors used to keep order on buses and it worked well. In Holland recently I encountered conductors on trams. No need for gardai, a conductor should be enough.

    The inpectors on the luas are a joke they look for a names and adresses/fines off people who cleary wont co-operate with them rather than doing the simple thing and kicking them off


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    #39
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    stehyl15 wrote: »
    The inpectors on the luas are a joke they look for a names and adresses/fines off people who cleary wont co-operate with them rather than doing the simple thing and kicking them off

    Whereas the conductors on the old buses used simply point and say "Off!" and whoever was causing trouble would slink off, sometimes with a bit of a whinge first, but off.


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    #40
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,872 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    How Soon Is Now wrote: »
    Someone will be seriously injured or hurt someday maybe then they will take notice which is stupid.
    .

    A person was killed a few weeks ago and nothing has been done.
    coylemj wrote: »
    Because if they deployed all of the security resources on the red line, the bleeding heart socialist TDs and councillors from Dublin West would be whinging about heavy-handed tactics, discrimination and all that sort of stuff.
    stehyl15 wrote: »
    Anyway i think the guards should patrol the luas as often as the private security do there would a lot less trouble if they were all truncheon charged

    Security in this country is useless, as the scumbags know, only the Gardaí can deal with the trouble on the Red Line.
    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Bus conductors used to keep order on buses and it worked well. In Holland recently I encountered conductors on trams. No need for gardai, a conductor should be enough.

    I don't think that conductors on buses would have as much influence these days as people think. People used to respect people in roles of authority now it seems to be a game to get them to react to video and claim, the scumbags give every type of abuse to the Luas staff and they always operate in groups.


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    #41
    How Soon Is Now
    Registered Users Posts: 13,083 ✭✭✭✭How Soon Is Now


    Del2005 wrote: »
    A person was killed a few weeks ago and nothing has been done.

    Really!?

    I heard nothing what happened?


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    #42
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Whereas the conductors on the old buses used simply point and say "Off!" and whoever was causing trouble would slink off, sometimes with a bit of a whinge first, but off.

    A different age that's 30 years ago or more the world has changed


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    #43
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    moc moc a moc wrote: »
    Good lord, how will they ever recover from the trauma? This must rank up there with the worst of Luas-related incidents.
    being spat upon is disgusting. he's right to point it out that the red line isn't the only line where something can happen.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #44
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,872 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    How Soon Is Now wrote: »
    Really!?

    I heard nothing what happened?

    Can't find the story but a person was attacked on the Luas on the way back from a gig in the Point a few months ago.


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    #45
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    cdebru wrote: »
    A different age that's 30 years ago or more the world has changed

    I was on the DLR recently and a few people were caught without tickets. "You have to leave now" followed by the inspector holding the doors open using the key in the panel yoke. Offenders slinked off (probably only to get on again on the next train).


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    #46
    How Soon Is Now
    Registered Users Posts: 13,083 ✭✭✭✭How Soon Is Now


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Can't find the story but a person was attacked on the Luas on the way back from a gig in the Point a few months ago.

    Ahhh ok ya I remember that I work beside where it happened didn't know he died though.


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    #47
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-beaten-with-bottle-in-horror-attack-on-luas-30832867.html
    Man beaten with bottle in horror attack on Luas

    A 40-year-old man suffered horrific facial injuries after he was savagely beaten over the head with a bottle in an unprovoked attack while on a Luas tram as he travelled home after a concert.

    Gardaí warned the public to be vigilant. If you're attacked, it's because you're not vigilant, you know!
    When the red-line tram that [Noel O'Rourke] was travelling on reached the Smithfield stop, a gang of thugs caused a disturbance, these included a female and a number of males.

    They targeted Mr O'Rourke who was hit a number of times with a bottle during a vicious assault.

    Unsurprisingly, he's described as "deeply traumatised", having had his eye socket fractured and needed staples in his head.

    The gardaí at the time said they had "good-quality CCTV" of the incident. This was on December 13, 2014, so Christmas intervened and there may not yet have been any prosecutions.
    Almost 1,000 incidents of anti-social behaviour and threats to passengers and staff occurred on the Luas last year, according to recent figures.

    The article goes on to give the numbers for 2013 (677 incidents, several prosecutions pending), and 2012 (212, including spitting and "serious verbal abuse").

    So if the number of incidents has ballooned from 212 two years ago to 1,000 last year, this is clearly a problem out of control.


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    #48
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,619 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Del2005 wrote: »
    A person was killed a few weeks ago and nothing has been done.

    This is a complete fabrication.


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    #49
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    listermint wrote: »
    This is a complete fabrication.

    Or maybe a mistake… we're all human, we misremember things.


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    #50
    stehyl15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    I was in London at the weekend and I have to say i was very impressed with the amount of btp patrolling all the main tube/mainland rail stations and tfl officals. They act as a real deterant to any anti-social behavior and are friendly and when appoarched unlike the stt lads who you'd nearly be affraid to ask directions or for help with the ticket machines for example.


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    #51
    pappe
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭pappe


    I happened to witness a similar situation on the 29th Jaunary:
    At Red Cow a group of people took seats at the bottom, just behind me. They were around 6 of them, and they started immediately to shout, intimidating people around, mostly sitting but sometimes standing, creating a very unpleasant atmosphere all around to the other luas customers. This situation lasted for several stops, until they apparently arrived to destination, at Cheevestown stop, 4:55 pm,
    It is at that point that the aggression towards a guy waiting at the narrow door to open started. It started inside the Luas and it finished outside. Many people added to the group, one or two passengers stepped out to help the customer that received the aggression, who was soon bleeding just outside Luas. A lady kept the door blocked open, to consent the ones that were helping to come back, one of them stepped back into luas bleeding too.
    I reported it immediately to Luas by email, but nobody ever came back to me despite they promise to respond to all emails within a week. I asked for an update and silence again...


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    #52
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    pappe wrote: »
    [...]Many people added to the group, one or two passengers stepped out to help the customer that received the aggression, who was soon bleeding just outside Luas. A lady kept the door blocked open, to consent the ones that were helping to come back, one of them stepped back into luas bleeding too.
    I reported it immediately to Luas by email, but nobody ever came back to me despite they promise to respond to all emails within a week. I asked for an update and silence again...

    I think in such a situation it might be better to call the Gardaí :confused:


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    #53
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,619 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Or maybe a mistake… we're all human, we misremember things.

    Misremember someone dying after being attacked on public transport. Pretty unusual stretch it would be all over front pages...


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    #54
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    listermint wrote: »
    Misremember someone dying after being attacked on public transport. Pretty unusual stretch it would be all over front pages...

    Twenty years ago any murder would have been a sensation, reported with two-inch-high headlines in the Evening Press. Now there's a murder every day. The attack on the Luas was reported with front-page horror, but no greater or less horror than any of the lost lives reported the day before or the day after.


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    #55
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Irish people are far too passive to scum on public transport,its not just the lack of security. Imo I really think it was a mistake making the luas an open system from the start but that's an argument for another day.

    When I lived in Germany there would never be a problem with scum because there is a button there to notify security on the next stop,on the luas there's nothing. I have also witnessed Germans gather around and lift people causing trouble out of the carriage and onto the platform. This is public transport, and if you're willing to allow it be run like crap by scumbags then that's what you deserve. The amount of times I've seen junkies goofing on the luas in front of children and having all passengers looking away is ridiculous, lift him off the fupping carriage, they only return because they know nobody has any balls to stop it.


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    #56
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Irish people are far too passive to scum on public transport,its not just the lack of security. Imo I really think it was a mistake making the luas an open system from the start but that's an argument for another day.

    When I lived in Germany there would never be a problem with scum because there is a button there to notify security on the next stop,on the luas there's nothing. I have also witnessed Germans gather around and lift people causing trouble out of the carriage and onto the platform. This is public transport, and if you're willing to allow it be run like crap by scumbags then that's what you deserve. The amount of times I've seen junkies goofing on the luas in front of children and having all passengers looking away is ridiculous, lift him off the fupping carriage, they only return because they know nobody has any balls to stop it.

    Cut's to the chase really,Celly.....there is a significant difference in the regard which Public Services are held in, by the average German and the average Irish person.

    You are indeeed correct in pointing out that German society in general,will tend to prevent the "shyttbaggery" which passes for normal behaviour on our Public Transport from developing to the point where "Security" intervention is required.

    It is the tolerance level of the customers themselves which will eventually decide the fate of Public Transport in these area's...and indications are that significant numbers do not see much of an issue at all...just young fella's having the bitta craic,etc etc....:(


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #57
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,872 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    listermint wrote: »
    Misremember someone dying after being attacked on public transport. Pretty unusual stretch it would be all over front pages...

    I'd confused different stories I'd heard. Not everyone has perfect memory.


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    #58
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Irish people are far too passive to scum on public transport,its not just the lack of security. Imo I really think it was a mistake making the luas an open system from the start but that's an argument for another day.

    When I lived in Germany there would never be a problem with scum because there is a button there to notify security on the next stop,on the luas there's nothing. I have also witnessed Germans gather around and lift people causing trouble out of the carriage and onto the platform. This is public transport, and if you're willing to allow it be run like crap by scumbags then that's what you deserve. The amount of times I've seen junkies goofing on the luas in front of children and having all passengers looking away is ridiculous, lift him off the fupping carriage, they only return because they know nobody has any balls to stop it.

    Try doing that in Ireland and the scummer won't be the one who ends up in court.


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    #59
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Try doing that in Ireland and the scummer won't be the one who ends up in court.

    Typical response and attitude.


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    #60
    Laviski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭Laviski


    Depends on the garda tbh.
    But more likely you could be brought forward with charges. Thats the way the laws are in ireland - backward.

    Until the patrick nally case you were supposed.to hide if intruder on your property. Laws are changing in the right direction but its taking too long.


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    #61
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Irish people are far too passive to scum on public transport,its not just the lack of security.

    If somebody lights a smoke/joint/chases the dragon upstairs on a Dublin Bus I always tell them to put it out, no matter how many of them there are or how rough they look. The reason they think they can (and do) get away with it is because twenty people will sit there tutting and staring out the window rather than say something. Guess what? Every single time they've done as I told them with barely a complaint. If just one person did this on every bus or tram the behaviour would eventually die out as even in their thick little brains the message would get through eventually that this isn't acceptable.


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