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Phoenix Park tunnel

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    #242
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,546 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    It depends on the frequency really. If the frequency isn't greater than every 15 minutes, it is hard to see how it wouldn't be faster to go to Heuston and get the Luas to the eastern part of the city.

    The frequency is planned as hourly off-peak and half-hourly at peak.

    It won't be a "turn up and go" service - people will be going for specific trains.


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    #243
    1huge1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭1huge1


    Aard wrote: »
    I'm not sure I understand the analogy :confused:

    Planes used to have to stop at Shannon on the way to the US, I assume he means that no one's destination was really Shannon and likewise, no one going into the city would have Heuston as a destination.


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    #244
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    AngryLips wrote: »
    ...kind of like the Shannon stopover of railways
    Aard wrote: »
    I'm not sure I understand the analogy :confused:

    I think he means that Heuston is to Dublin bound train passengers as the Shannon Airport stopover was to airline passengers who were not going to Shannon / the west of Ireland.

    But I think that's a crazy exaggeration. It's an over the top exaggeration and once Dart Underground is in place Heuston will be the best connected Intercity / Commuter station. The network effect of Dart Underground will be massive in general and Heuston will benefit from that maybe more than people think.

    It's worth saying: Heuston has Luas outside the door, bus connections outside the door, more buses outside another door, more buses 5mins walk to Parkgate Street, more taxis outside the door, DublinBikes stations all around it, a slightly larger car park with better access to the wider city (depending on where you're going) etc.

    Heuston as an area has and is growing and is more populated with residents and jobs than most people think.


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    #245
    1huge1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭1huge1


    monument wrote: »
    I think he means that Heuston is to Dublin bound train passengers as the Shannon Airport stopover was to airline passengers who were not going to Shannon / the west of Ireland.

    But I think that's a crazy exaggeration. It's an over the top exaggeration and once Dart Underground is in place Heuston will be the best connected Intercity / Commuter station. The network effect of Dart Underground will be massive in general and Heuston will benefit from that maybe more than people think.

    It's worth saying: Heuston has Luas outside the door, bus connections outside the door, more buses outside another door, more buses 5mins walk to Parkgate Street, more taxis outside the door, DublinBikes stations all around it, a slightly larger car park with better access to the wider city (depending on where you're going) etc.

    Heuston as an area has and is growing and is more populated with residents and jobs than most people think.

    Agree completely with everything you've said, just that it's all down to the Dart Underground being built.


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    #246
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,773 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    lxflyer wrote: »
    The frequency is planned as hourly off-peak and half-hourly at peak.

    It won't be a "turn up and go" service - people will be going for specific trains.

    You can plan ahead for as long as you like, but if there is a waiting time for the service of up to 30 minutes off peak and 60 minutes peak, you will be quicker two-thirds of the time to go on to Heuston and get the Luas (or higher than two-thirds, depending on your exact destination).


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    #247
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,295 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    You can plan ahead for as long as you like, but if there is a waiting time for the service of up to 30 minutes off peak and 60 minutes peak, you will be quicker two-thirds of the time to go on to Heuston and get the Luas (or higher than two-thirds, depending on your exact destination).

    True enough if you turn up at a random time just to get whatever the next train is. But I suspect most people don't do that on that line even at the moment, they look at the timetable and plan for a specific train. So effective waiting time will be negligible.


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    #248
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,773 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    If it suits your times, sure.

    If you are interconnecting with intercity, you can't determine what time you are making the connection.


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    #249
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    The service will primarily be for commuters to D2/D4 offices for morning and evening peak, whose journeys will be fairly predictable.


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    #250
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    If it suits your times, sure.

    If you are interconnecting with intercity, you can't determine what time you are making the connection.

    How can you be connecting with intercity services at Connolly? Belfast is a two hourly service with three services in the morning, and Wexford only runs five times a day, with only one of those before lunch.


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    #251
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,546 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    You can plan ahead for as long as you like, but if there is a waiting time for the service of up to 30 minutes off peak and 60 minutes peak, you will be quicker two-thirds of the time to go on to Heuston and get the Luas (or higher than two-thirds, depending on your exact destination).
    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    If it suits your times, sure.

    If you are interconnecting with intercity, you can't determine what time you are making the connection.


    As another poster has said, the services on this line are the ones that people check their timetable first before travelling. As now, it really won't be a case of people turning up on spec.

    I also very much doubt many people will be using these services to connect with Intercity services. They will be commuters travelling to/from the CBD, with regular departure times.

    You're applying high frequency route rules to a low frequency route.

    But if someone misses the train to GCD, then they will at least have an alternative option of going to Heuston.

    As can be seen from the timetable, off-peak services to Heuston are already only every 60 minutes as it is, while peak services would require intending passengers to check the timetable as they are irregular.


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    #252
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Was I imagining it or were they doing some live testing of a possible schedule through the tunnel last Friday morning as I saw at least two passenger trains go via the tunnel and Platform 10 around 09:00?


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    #253
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,546 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Was I imagining it or were they doing some live testing of a possible schedule through the tunnel last Friday morning as I saw at least two passenger trains go via the tunnel and Platform 10 around 09:00?



    Probably the ICR transfer between Connolly and Heuston.


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    #254
    Paddico
    Registered Users Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭Paddico


    Some interesting articles here.

    Its 12 months away from been ready

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/trains-using-phoenix-park-tunnel-will-not-stop-at-heuston-1.2320824

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0818/722029-phoenix-park-tunnel-dublin/

    http://www.thejournal.ie/phoenix-park-tunnel-ready-year-trains-2278266-Aug2015/


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    #255
    BowWow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭BowWow


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057393984


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    #256
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    lxflyer wrote: »
    services would require intending passengers to check the timetable as they are irregular.

    Irregular enough that the time of trains leaving Newbridge in the morning are not in chronological order
    7:29 7:44 7:35

    ...


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    #257
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,546 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Irregular enough that the time of trains leaving Newbridge in the morning are not in chronological order
    7:29 7:44 7:35

    ...

    Indeed they are - for the simple reason that the 07:44 overtakes the 07:35 on the four tracking section into Heuston, and thus arrives ahead of the 07:35.

    Otherwise you would have to split the 07:35 into two columns around the 07:44 which probably wouldn't be very clear.


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    #258
    Paddico
    Registered Users Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭Paddico


    Amazingly there hasn't been a peep about this in ages. Are people posting elsewhere?


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    #259
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,546 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Paddico wrote: »
    Amazingly there hasn't been a peep about this in ages. Are people posting elsewhere?
    There are other threads about it.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057393984

    But there is nothing really to post at the moment - the city centre resignalling project is continuing, as is work along the line between Islandbridge Junction and Glasnevin Junction.

    The services are not due to start until late 2016.


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    #260
    FredFunk
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭FredFunk


    This can't be far away, Grand Canal Dock station changes seemed to be made, not sure about the signalling project?
    Would there need to be a complete rewrite or major adjustment of the Heuston and Connolly timetables to allow for this extra trains?


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    #261
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,546 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    FredFunk wrote: »
    This can't be far away, Grand Canal Dock station changes seemed to be made, not sure about the signalling project?
    Would there need to be a complete rewrite or major adjustment of the Heuston and Connolly timetables to allow for this extra trains?

    No but again it is not due until late this year (as in sometime during the final quarter) as per my previous post and numerous earlier posts.

    A draft timetable is further up the thread.

    Drivers have to be route trained.


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    #262
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    FredFunk wrote: »
    This can't be far away, Grand Canal Dock station changes seemed to be made, not sure about the signalling project?
    Would there need to be a complete rewrite or major adjustment of the Heuston and Connolly timetables to allow for this extra trains?

    Regards the re-signalling project, Phase 3 covered the Connolly-Sandymount stretch including works at Grand Canal Dock station. Its my understanding that Phase 3 is now complete.

    Phase 4 (the final phase) involves resignalling works at Connolly station yard. Not sure when Phase 4 is scheduled or whether it's required before the PPT services commence. Irish Rail doesn't offer much in the way of detail.

    But PPT services are due to start before the end of the year, that much is clear.


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    #263
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,546 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Regards the re-signalling project, Phase 3 covered the Connolly-Sandymount stretch including works at Grand Canal Dock station. Its my understanding that Phase 3 is now complete.

    Phase 4 (the final phase) involves resignalling works at Connolly station yard. Not sure when Phase 4 is scheduled or whether it's required before the PPT services commence. Irish Rail doesn't offer much in the way of detail.

    But PPT services are due to start before the end of the year, that much is clear.

    Phase 4 is not needed for the PPT services to commence.


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    #264
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,546 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Consultation on the proposed timetable is now live:
    http://www.irishrail.ie/news/phoenixparktunnelpublicconsultation

    It is now purely a peak hour service only, but good to see that reverse flow connections to Parkwest in the morning and return in the evenings have been retained.


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    #265
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,077 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Nothing on a Saturday or Sunday. A few off peak wouldn't go amiss either.

    EDIT: Just saw the other thread about expansion next year.


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    #266
    FredFunk
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭FredFunk


    Very biased to suburban stations which currently have low footfall.
    Poor link ups with popular intercity trains used by a large number of commuters.
    Certainly no time savings, not that I was expecting any, but an average of 20 mins extra journey time to/from Portlaoise doesn't sound great, and that is if you can get a connection.
    My current 6.54 train does not!!!
    Will have to submit a few comments.


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    #267
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,546 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    FredFunk wrote: »
    Very biased to suburban stations which currently have low footfall.
    Poor link ups with popular intercity trains used by a large number of commuters.
    Certainly no time savings, not that I was expecting any, but an average of 20 mins extra journey time to/from Portlaoise doesn't sound great, and that is if you can get a connection.
    My current 6.54 train does not!!!
    Will have to submit a few comments.

    By starting & stopping them at Hazelhatch they can operate more trains but use the same resources.

    Bear in mind that they only have four trains with which to run this service.

    Maybe they can add a stop on your train, but looking at the trains around it, it would be very tight.


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    #268
    FredFunk
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭FredFunk


    lxflyer wrote: »
    By starting & stopping them at Hazelhatch they can operate more trains but use the same resources.

    Bear in mind that they only have four trains with which to run this service.

    Maybe they can add a stop on your train, but looking at the trains around it, it would be very tight.
    No point in running more trains to suit a minority, apart from Sallins and maybe Hazelhatch the other stations are a joke.
    The trains should have run from Kildare - Newbridge - Sallins - Hazelhatch - Drumcondra.


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    #269
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,546 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    FredFunk wrote: »
    No point in running more trains to suit a minority, apart from Sallins and maybe Hazelhatch the other stations are a joke.
    The trains should have run from Kildare - Newbridge - Sallins - Hazelhatch - Drumcondra.

    But there are connections to and from those stations - passengers can still get to GCD with a connection.

    Every train to GCD (bar the last one which starts from Newbridge) has a connecting service from the outer stations. If you start the trains from Kildare you would halve the number of trains that could be operated.


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    #270
    FredFunk
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭FredFunk


    My experience is the intercity trains are used more than the suburban trains on this line.
    For instance the Limerick train I get in the evening is largely used by Kildare/Portarlington and Portlaoise commuters, similar for the Waterford and Galway trains. There are no connections for these customers bar getting on the slow boat trains via every station.


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    #271
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,546 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    FredFunk wrote: »
    My experience is the intercity trains are used more than the suburban trains on this line.
    For instance the Limerick train I get in the evening is largely used by Kildare/Portarlington and Portlaoise commuters, similar for the Waterford and Galway trains. There are no connections for these customers bar getting on the slow boat trains via every station.

    But realistically it may not be feasible to connect into/out of every train - there is a finite amount of space on the line.

    I hear what you're saying but you need to look at what trains are running either side of those trains and look at the impact of adding an extra stop on them.


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