Supplements

beggars_bush · 21-11-2008 6:38pm

yeah. well, was just looking for an opinion

tbh, i've read most of the stickies and its very good info.

and i only started using that RAM stuff in the last few months. just wanted to see if others felt it was worth the hassle buying it and taking it after workouts

g'em · 21-11-2008 7:15pm

kevpants wrote: »

I think the Mods have actually lost the will to ask people to stick to it cos the flood of topics is too much.

Is it that obvious?

Thread merged with sticky.

Hornd · 21-11-2008 10:08pm

You don't need them! You dont need something called ALFA BLAST MUSCLETRON 5000 X to get stronger.

You mean powerthirst doesn't work!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNxHqwazs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-3qncy5Qfk

quirkster · 23-11-2008 2:48pm

Hanley wrote: »

Not really sure how good an idea a waxy maize and protein combo is tbh…. The whole idea of waxy maize is that it bypasses everything and does its job as quickly as possible. Taking whey with it would only slow it down, defeating the purporse. AFAIK the recommendatino with WMS is to take it immediately after training and wait approx. 30 minutes before you get your protein in.

I actually have a tub of WMS in my car that I keep meaning to use. I must try it and see. My training partner swears by it.

whey and waxymaize are two completly different supplements.
whey protein, if taken with water, is pretty much instantly absorbed as it is pre digested. with milk, the caesin ensures it is slowly released (ideal for night time)

waxymaize will replenish your glycogen stores in your muscles after a workout, so as to stop your body going into a catabolic state. niether affects the others absorption rate at all, or their effectiveness

newby.204 · 23-11-2008 10:48pm

anybody use or have any experience with bulkpowders.co.uk?? Also whats the difference between whey protein concentrate and isolate??

http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/

23-11-2008 11:10pm

A controversial question that bodybuilding/supplement companies argue back and forth about.

To cut a long story short, isolate protein is purer and contains more protein and less carbs/sugar/fat whatever. Isolate is said to be 90-94% protein while whey concentrate has a protein ratio of 70-85%.

I have always just used whey concentrate as I don't see the justification in paying more and most other people I know with great bodies do too.

T Corolla · 24-11-2008 4:15am

Does anyone on this forum use whey protein I am thinking of purchasing some. Is it any good and what are the best brands to purchase.

quirkster · 24-11-2008 9:14am

T Corolla wrote: »

Does anyone on this forum use whey protein I am thinking of purchasing some. Is it any good and what are the best brands to purchase.

if your not getting enough protein, you will not grow.
you should aim for at least 1 gram of protein per pound of your bodyweight.most people need whey to supplement this amount.
its way more convienient to make a shake, than to fry up some chicken fillets, which is why, anyone who is serious about putting on muscle will use whey protein

There are ALOT of companies producing whey, the one ive found to be the best in terms of quality and price, is IDS Whey Protein

Khannie · 24-11-2008 11:27am

newby.204 wrote: »

anybody use or have any experience with bulkpowders.co.uk??

Yup. Found them good. myprotein.co.uk are also good.

Twin Lance · 24-11-2008 12:58pm

Hey guys, got a tub of Creatamax off eBay last week, and it might seem completely irrelevant but the stuff tastes terrible. Got Orange flavour because I didn't specify and the thought of stomaching the stuff every day is pretty daunting. Any ideas for a mixer to use?
I know it sounds terrible, and I'm sure the benefits are surely going to outweigh the disadvantage of a bad taste, but I wouldn't mind not having to chug the stuff in the morning just to get it out of the way!

quirkster · 24-11-2008 6:21pm

dude id stay well away from maximuscle if your looking to increase size.

its well known that their products are terrible compared to what else is available, for much less cost.
however now that you have the product, you shud try get the best out of it, and do some research so you can get better quality for your money next time:)

i utterly despise the taste of the majority of shakes i have, but i find that adding a little less water, and taking a deep breath and chugging it is the best. breathe through your mouth and the taste will be minimal!
experiment with apple/orange juice etc if you dont want to chug, i know with other supplements, they enhance the taste!

opr · 24-11-2008 8:04pm

quirkster wrote: »

if your not getting enough protein, you will not grow.
you should aim for at least 1 gram of protein per pound of your bodyweight.most people need whey to supplement this amount.
its way more convienient to make a shake, than to fry up some chicken fillets, which is why, anyone who is serious about putting on muscle will use whey protein

(could someone please answer these for me)

How much protein is this in terms of real food ?

Let say i am around 165lbs , In a normal balanced diet what kinds of thing produce lots of protein and how much would i need to eat in terms of that food for my body to grow ?

Lets say i am eating 2/3 scrambled eggs each morning and a chicken fillet later on obviously with other foods but these being the main protein rich things i would eat. Is this enough in my daily diet to put on muscle ?

Do i only need to make sure i have loads of protein on the days i excercise ?

How detrimental is not eating enough protein if i am weight training pretty hard 3/4 times a week ? Is the weight training just a waste of time without it ?

Opr

quirkster · 24-11-2008 9:01pm

others might say different, but i believe it is ALMOST a waste, if your not getting enough protein.
and its as important to take it on 'off' days aswell, because this is when your body is growing and needing all the nutrients and protein it can get, to repair and build the muscle your previously worked.

Its advised that you get as much of your daily protein target from real food, however this is not always do-able. hence, we have shakes.
i have 4/5 shakes a day and eat plenty of tuna and steak etc.

i know an egg has roughly 7grams of protein and a breast of chicken might have 17/18 grams

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

theres a very good link, if you want to get technical!

you should be getting between 160 and 170 grams of protein a day

opr · 24-11-2008 9:25pm

quirkster wrote: »

others might say different, but i believe it is ALMOST a waste, if your not getting enough protein.
and its as important to take it on 'off' days aswell, because this is when your body is growing and needing all the nutrients and protein it can get, to repair and build the muscle your previously worked.

Its advised that you get as much of your daily protein target from real food, however this is not always do-able. hence, we have shakes.
i have 4/5 shakes a day and eat plenty of tuna and steak etc.

i know an egg has roughly 7grams of protein and a breast of chicken might have 17/18 grams

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

theres a very good link, if you want to get technical!

you should be getting between 160 and 170 grams of protein a day

Thanks for that few more

, it pretty obvious then i am not getting enough protein.

I am pretty new to this as for the last 4 months i was trying to lose weight. When you say "4/5 shakes" a day ... What does this mean ? Are these something you buy in a shop ? Do you make them up yourself ? What would you recommend i use ?

Opr

quirkster · 24-11-2008 9:32pm

4/5 shakes mean, that throughout the day ill take 4/5 (not each time, all through the day) scoops of protein powder and add water to them in a mixer to make whats commonly called a shake.
a scoop of protein powder from any reputable company will contain between 22 and 26 grams of protein.

you buy a tub of protein powder in the shop, and work from that in ur home or whatever.

the cheapest and best quality that ive found, is 40 euro for a 5lb tub of IDS (the name of the company), from universalnutrition.ie

they deliver free, and throw in a free mixer aswell

hope that helps:)

24-11-2008 10:28pm

Do you work for universalnutrition.ie? You have pimped that site so much.

quirkster · 24-11-2008 11:23pm

i know ya i was thinking that when i wrote it out for like the 7th time haha!no im just a frequent poster and customer and believe they are the best value supplement shop in ireland...

Davei141 · 25-11-2008 1:02am

Pretty sure chicken has way more protein than you give it credit for

.

kevpants · 25-11-2008 12:19pm

quirkster wrote: »

i have 4/5 shakes a day

:eek:

That's a little shocking TBH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsTVqv2MCAA

The wry smiles and knowing looks say it all in this vid.

What do you do Quirkster? Is it bodybuilding? I take it form your posts you're quite young.

There seems to be a culture emerging of "if the supplementation is right the rest will fall into place". The thing is diet and protein intake are secondary to training. You can get seriously big and seriously strong on a crap diet. Even if that diet doesn't provide the protein touted as essential (1g per lb of bodyweight), I'd say I rarely get this. Calories are nearly more important if you ask me. I know I'm standing alone in alot of my anti-supplement comments but I think the tide needs to be stemmed somewhat. Beginners coming on here should here both sides of the story, from guys drinking 4/5 shakes a day to a guy who has a shake after training if it's too late to cook.

I mean look at what Dave Tate was eating before John Berardi got his hands on him. One of the strongest guys out there and he was eating mostly pop tarts.

I'm not pushing people towards bad diet but a lot of people in supplement companies are getting very rich. A lot more rich than their customers are getting strong.

25-11-2008 4:15pm

Spot on Kevpants. 4 to 5 shakes a day? Not for me. A complete waste of time and money.

opr · 25-11-2008 4:33pm

Thanks for that guy its great to hear the other side. Maybe if i give a little background you could advise me a little further.

I was overweight and very unfit which i decided to change a few months back. Since then i have been in the GYM at least three times a week, often 4 times and occasionally 5-6.

I had been training for about 13 weeks doing the following.

15-30 minutes - Treadmill (Every session)
15-30 minutes - x-Trainer (Every session)

1000-2000 metres - Rower (I hated rowing and really only did this about once every week)

Weights consisted of 10 different excersies

Chest press, seated row, lat pull, should press , leg press , leg curl , bicep curl , tricep curl doing 10-14 reps of 2-3 sets.

Diet was very minimal something like this

Breakfast - Scrambled egg + water
Afternoon - wholemeal bread toasted + tea
Dinner - Chicken fillet + veg etc
Night - Beans + toast

I have never been a big eater the problem was i got in a huge habit of eating loads of junk food , takeaways etc.

I went from around 13.5 to my current weight of 11.5 stone which it more or less my ideal weight.

Now i am trying to do more weight sessions and would like to put on some upper body muscle. I still have some weight around the stomach that i would like to shift but i know that the only way of doing this is to lose fat from all over. This is my second week of the new training schedule. I am doing 5 sessions a week of up to 2hours with a mix of cardio, a new weight program and abs+oblique exercises.

Would increasing the above diet a little with maybe another protein rich meal and also adding an after training shake be ok ? I am just a little worried that i am training hard at the minute and am maybe burning muscle rather than fat ? Or just not getting enough in general of what i need for what my body is doing ?

Opr

Hanley · 25-11-2008 9:37pm

kevpants wrote: »

:eek:

That's a little shocking TBH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsTVqv2MCAA

The wry smiles and knowing looks say it all in this vid.

What do you do Quirkster? Is it bodybuilding? I take it form your posts you're quite young.

There seems to be a culture emerging of "if the supplementation is right the rest will fall into place". The thing is diet and protein intake are secondary to training. You can get seriously big and seriously strong on a crap diet. Even if that diet doesn't provide the protein touted as essential (1g per lb of bodyweight), I'd say I rarely get this. Calories are nearly more important if you ask me. I know I'm standing alone in alot of my anti-supplement comments but I think the tide needs to be stemmed somewhat. Beginners coming on here should here both sides of the story, from guys drinking 4/5 shakes a day to a guy who has a shake after training if it's too late to cook.

I mean look at what Dave Tate was eating before John Berardi got his hands on him. One of the strongest guys out there and he was eating mostly pop tarts.

I'm not pushing people towards bad diet but a lot of people in supplement companies are getting very rich. A lot more rich than their customers are getting strong.

Good post dude.

Don't worry tho, I think quirkster's training is all set. He does plenty of clean and sweeps!!

:D:D

quirkster · 25-11-2008 9:54pm

ive been training properly for a year and a half and i suppose youd call it bodybuilding!dont get me wrong, i dont believe at all at all at all that supplements are magic.
when my classmates or whatever ask me what supplement will get them huge, i tell them, you will not grow without training. however, i also believe without protein you will not grow, thats a scientific fact.

whole foods are much better sources of nutrients, unfortunetly, as a student i cant always afford to cook chicken breasts and steaks for my protein source, so i turn to shakes!

in my opinion training and diet go hand in hand, you'll hear alot of major, competitive bodybuilders say that theyd rather miss a training session than miss a meal

hanley i have never once done a clean and sweep

kevpants · 25-11-2008 10:21pm

quirkster wrote: »

ive been training properly for a year and a half and i suppose youd call it bodybuilding!dont get me wrong, i dont believe at all at all at all that supplements are magic.
when my classmates or whatever ask me what supplement will get them huge, i tell them, you will not grow without training. however, i also believe without protein you will not grow, thats a scientific fact.

whole foods are much better sources of nutrients, unfortunetly, as a student i cant always afford to cook chicken breasts and steaks for my protein source, so i turn to shakes!

in my opinion training and diet go hand in hand, you'll hear alot of major, competitive bodybuilders say that theyd rather miss a training session than miss a meal

hanley i have never once done a clean and sweep

No worries Quirkster. The only thing I'd say is maybe practice a little more humility in the posts, at your stage I'm sure you're motoring away and doing plenty of good things but you're doing plenty bad too. There's not a lifter out there who didn't when they were 18. Your enthusiasm is evident but if you make matter of fact statements about training or diet you'd better be damn sure it's right or it will be picked apart, a lot of grumpy seasoned athletes here!

quirkster · 25-11-2008 11:33pm

your right, im not liking the little mob thats assembling at my url with pitchforks!
oh curse my 18 years driven attiude of 'i know it all'!
apologies to all offended haha!

Discount Supp. · 28-11-2008 12:00pm

T Corolla wrote: »

Does anyone on this forum use whey protein I am thinking of purchasing some. Is it any good and what are the best brands to purchase.

Whey protein is perfect for before and after training, if your taking it at other times of the day take it with fibre or healthy fats like udos oil,olive oil or natural peanut butter. This will slow the rate at which your body absorbs the protein.

Ideally you want a casein protein or at least a blended protein containing whey and casein to take during the day. Good brands include BSN, Optimum Nutrition and IDS.

Discount Supp. · 28-11-2008 12:09pm

beggars_bush wrote: »

just want to ask something

had been using RAM from nutrition x for the post workout shake, along with good meals within an hour of finishing the session. i don't use a pre workout shake, but make sure i've eaten protein during the day - eggs, tuna, milk before the gym

does this stuff actually work? i noticed i ended up passing a lot more fluid than i do when not using it. not sure if it was aiding muscle recovery or not

does it make much more of a difference?

RAM does work, it has the perfect ratio of carbs to protein(2:1). Throw in some creatine and you have a really good post workout shake. Nutrition X also have a great new product called powerloader which contains waxy maize and creatine.

Within an hour after your pwo shake have your ppwo meal containing lean protein, complex carbs and healthy fats

Discount Supp. · 28-11-2008 12:19pm

Hanley wrote: »

Not really sure how good an idea a waxy maize and protein combo is tbh…. The whole idea of waxy maize is that it bypasses everything and does its job as quickly as possible. Taking whey with it would only slow it down, defeating the purporse. AFAIK the recommendatino with WMS is to take it immediately after training and wait approx. 30 minutes before you get your protein in.

I actually have a tub of WMS in my car that I keep meaning to use. I must try it and see. My training partner swears by it.

It doesn't make much of a difference by taking both together or seperate, both are fast acting. Try 2 scoops of wms, 2 scoops of optimum gold standard whey(includes 8g glutamine) and 5-10g of creatine for the perfect post workout shake. Then have your meal 30-60 mins later.

redfan · 28-11-2008 4:00pm

read great thing about this stuff
just want to put the feelers out on here first . it seems inexpencive and 90 caps in the tub .

28-11-2008 5:32pm

and probably about 6 tabs a day required.

Is it not just a standard zinc supplement?

Brian? · 28-11-2008 5:42pm

redfan wrote: »

read great thing about this stuff
just want to put the feelers out on here first . it seems inexpencive and 90 caps in the tub .

I had a google there, looks like you'd be better off eating some steak or shellfish. Tastier as well.

http://www.weightlossforall.com/foods-rich-zinc.htm

quirkster · 28-11-2008 6:41pm

pretty sure its a regular ZMA supp.will help increase testosterone production, i was using primaforce ZMA but got an outbreak of acne which i attributed to higher test levels from the ZMA so i stopped

Southern Dandy · 03-12-2008 9:02pm

When is the best time to take creatine? ive looked at dozens of articles each one contradicting the other, should i take pre or post workout or both? should i take it twice a day? (i only take it once a day)

Started a post a bit back in the fitness sec but didnt give me much info

Cheers

03-12-2008 9:17pm

This basically comes down to your goals. However the essential time to take it would be after a workout in my opinion or else first thing in the morning, then again I don't really think it matters. I don't use the stuff ever anymore.

Bren Sheehan · 03-12-2008 9:30pm

I have a blender and make smoothies with my protein shake.

Some orange juice, banana, honey, van flav protein and some flax seed oil, very tasty.

You can even blend in porridge with it to add carbs but it can be hard to keep down ; )

jimmay · 18-12-2008 8:44pm

g'em wrote: »

There are two types of creatine on the market: creatine monohydrate and creatine ethyl ester. The vast majority of the last ten years’ worth of creatine studies have been done with creatine monohydrate and as a newcomer to the supplement scene CEE is yet to be fully tested in action. /QUOTE]

Would this mean CEE would not be generally be reccomended? I have never used any creatine product but someone down the gym was telling me to try a type of creatine other than monohydrate. I was considering trying it, a product I found with it such as BSN's Cell Mass.

18-12-2008 10:13pm

jimmay wrote: »

g'em wrote: »

There are two types of creatine on the market: creatine monohydrate and creatine ethyl ester. The vast majority of the last ten years’ worth of creatine studies have been done with creatine monohydrate and as a newcomer to the supplement scene CEE is yet to be fully tested in action. /QUOTE]

Would this mean CEE would not be generally be reccomended? I have never used any creatine product but someone down the gym was telling me to try a type of creatine other than monohydrate. I was considering trying it, a product I found with it such as BSN's Cell Mass.

You'll be interested to know that CEE is not actually more effective than Monohydrate.

g'em · 18-12-2008 10:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You'll be interested to know that CEE is not actually more effective than Monohydrate.

source?

19-12-2008 12:40am

g'em wrote: »

source?

http://www.cr-technologies.net/cee.html

"In practice, the addition of the ethyl group to creatine actually reduces acid stability and accelerates its breakdown to creatinine. This substantially reduces creatine availability in its esterified form and as a consequence creatines such as San CM2 and CE2 are inferior to CM as a source of free creatine."

I also found a newer one:

"New research shows that creatine ethyl-ester - a new but unproven version of the popular sports supplement creatine – does not work as well as regular creatine."

Source: http://www.cr-technologies.net/cee_pr.html

jimmay · 19-12-2008 1:09am

That article was a bit technical for me tbh not sure what to make of it so is there any other alternative to creatine monohydrate? Or is this the best type? Also I don't want to worry about doing the loading phase correctly, is there a creatine product that allows for this?

Hanley · 19-12-2008 10:06am

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.cr-technologies.net/cee.html

"In practice, the addition of the ethyl group to creatine actually reduces acid stability and accelerates its breakdown to creatinine. This substantially reduces creatine availability in its esterified form and as a consequence creatines such as San CM2 and CE2 are inferior to CM as a source of free creatine."

I also found a newer one:

"New research shows that creatine ethyl-ester - a new but unproven version of the popular sports supplement creatine – does not work as well as regular creatine."

Source: http://www.cr-technologies.net/cee_pr.html

Reckon they have a reason to be knocking any type of creatine that isn't there own.....??

Here's a list of their latest releases;

August 14 2007
CR-Technologies release CREASAFE®
http://www.cr-technologies.net/creasafe.html

June 19 2007
Creatine Ethyl-Ester Unstable, Say Researchers

June 19 2007
Kre-alkalyn® supplementation has no beneficial effect on creatine-to-
creatinine conversion rates

Lol at you using a company that manufactures a rival product as a way of backing up your arguments.

HEY EVERYONE, Pepsi doesn't taste nice.*

*Published in the Coca-Cola research quarterly.

19-12-2008 12:34pm

Keep on laughing at me Hanley, I'm bringing something to the discussion. You're not. You're just blasting it and not backing it up.

It's as close to any evidence I have found online that says otherwise. Unless you count hundreds of threads on bodybuilding.com or numerous other forums worldwide where people are saying "CEE is amazing, it's even better than steroids, and it's making girls want to kiss me, I put on 200lbs of solid muscle in 36 hours"

So do you think Ethyl Ester is better than Monohydrate? Do you have any facts to bring to this argument? Why wouldn't a company research something, find out what is better and then sell it?

This research was presented at the 4th Annual International Society of Sports Nutrition Conference (Las Vegas, USA)

"To date, no published study has shown that creatine ethyl-ester works any better than regular creatine," adds study co-author Dr. Robert Child. "In fact, our work shows that it’s less stable. Anyone should think twice about spending their money on this type of product."

Source
Child, R. & Tallon, M.J. (2007). Creatine ethyl ester rapidly degrades to creatinine in stomach acid. International Society of Sports Nutrition 4th Annual Meeting

Wikipedia also use the same reference (and Wikipedia is far more regulated now then when it first came out and is monitored 24/7 to ensure false crap is not written)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine_ethyl_ester

I don't know Hanley, I'm trying to bring something to this discussion. Are you?

g'em · 19-12-2008 12:44pm

Chillax, both of you!

TheEntrepreneur Hanley makes a good point - 'research' carried out by supplement companies is overwhelmingly biased to say the least and pretty unreliable. We would tend to look towards peer-reviewed, independent studies from International journals for solid objective information.

Deleted User wrote: »

It's as close to any evidence I have found online that says otherwise. Unless you count hundreds of threads on bodybuilding.com or numerous other forums worldwide where people are saying "CEE is amazing, it's even better than steroids, and it's making girls want to kiss me, I put on 200lbs of solid muscle in 36 hours"

Well this is just it - there really isn't any quantifiable evidence either way yet afaik; CEE is still too new a product to have been tested rigorously. Hell, Mono has only been tested for the last 10 years (albeit in 200+ studies!).

You're right, you are bringing something to the discussion, but just be careful how solid and reliable the information you're bringing is

Hanley · 19-12-2008 1:03pm

Keep on laughing at me Hanley, I'm bringing something to the discussion. You're not. You're just blasting it and not backing it up.

Riiiiiight….. How does one back up an observation based on logical conclusions, other than by citing where it was observed and why their opinion was arrived at??

It's as close to any evidence I have found online that says otherwise. Unless you count hundreds of threads on bodybuilding.com or numerous other forums worldwide where people are saying "CEE is amazing, it's even better than steroids, and it's making girls want to kiss me, I put on 200lbs of solid muscle in 36 hours"

Lol

So do you think Ethyl Ester is better than Monohydrate?

Lol. Do you think it actually matters to me which is better? Both will have such little bearing on the success of any training program that even a large difference between them will mean FA.

Do you have any facts to bring to this argument?

Facts….?? Empirical evidence isn’t good enough I assume?

Here’s one; 99.9% of people on the internet who are interested in fitness like to read loads and engage in arguments about optimal training, and optimal nutrition without actually practicing what they preach. Well, they do train. But they only go thru the motions and get no where.

Actually, that’s mean. 90%.

Why wouldn't a company research something, find out what is better and then sell it?

You don’t seriously expect me to try and argue against that do you??

Indulge me and let me ask you a question, assuming scientific studies are relatively easy to manipulate, and aren’t normally done under the same conditions, is it “right” that a company engages in a study which can be manipulated to suit their own raison d’etre, only for them to hold this study up as being scientific “proof” that the thing they’re selling is best?

This research was presented at the 4th Annual International Society of Sports Nutrition Conference (Las Vegas, USA)

"To date, no published study has shown that creatine ethyl-ester works any better than regular creatine," adds study co-author Dr. Robert Child. "In fact, our work shows that it’s less stable. Anyone should think twice about spending their money on this type of product."

Source
Child, R. & Tallon, M.J. (2007). Creatine ethyl ester rapidly degrades to creatinine in stomach acid. International Society of Sports Nutrition 4th Annual Meeting

“Less Stable”

“Doesn’t work any better”

Doesn’t say it’s WORSE tho does it??

What sort of dosage are we talking anyway? If you’re superdosing any creatine it’s going to turn to creatinine eventually. Maybe CEE is just more susceptible to this?

Wikipedia also use the same reference (and Wikipedia is far more regulated now then when it first came out and is monitored 24/7 to ensure false crap is not written)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine_ethyl_ester

A wikipedia, the bastion of truth. No further comment necessary.

I don't know Hanley, I'm trying to bring something to this discussion. Are you?

I’m bringing you the other side of the discussion, it’d be awfully boring if you just stated your opinions and had everyone agree with you?? That wouldn’t be a discussion at all would it? More of a, well... I won't say it.

19-12-2008 3:49pm

"To date, no published study has shown that creatine ethyl-ester works any better than regular creatine,"

Fine, that doesn't exactly say it's not worse but it won't convince me to go out and buy CEE. Monohydrate has the track record (10 years +), CEE is new.

The guy enquiring is a newbie. What is my point? My point is he will benefit just fine from Monohydrate.

The bottom line is there is a guy who wants to know about creatine. I'll change my original statement slightly.

You'll be interested to know that CEE is not actually PROVEN to be more effective than Monohydrate.

If it's not proven, why bother paying the extra and trying it out? Would you buy if it was not proven to work better than existing products that do the same thing? I wouldn't.

Hanley · 19-12-2008 6:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Fine, that doesn't exactly say it's not worse but it won't convince me to go out and buy CEE. Monohydrate has the track record (10 years +), CEE is new.

Who was trying to convince you to buy CEE?

The guy enquiring is a newbie. What is my point? My point is he will benefit just fine from Monohydrate.

Yeah... or training.... Or more food....

The choice between CEE and mono isn't what makes or breaks it for a newb. In fact I'd say there's NO difference when it comes to newbies.

If it's not proven, why bother paying the extra and trying it out? Would you buy if it was not proven to work better than existing products that do the same thing? I wouldn't.

Nor would I. Besides, CEE tastes like crap!

quirkster · 19-12-2008 6:25pm

theres a lot more than 2 types of creo on the market. they all ESSENTIALLY do the same thing give or take.some people react differently to others or have problems breaking down one type etc.

hanley you cannot be possibly suggesting that you can taste the different types of creatine?

Hanley · 19-12-2008 7:02pm

quirkster wrote: »

hanley you cannot be possibly suggesting that you can taste the different types of creatine?

Not a suggestion, a statement.

quirkster · 19-12-2008 7:05pm

i admire your tasting ability. i for one find it hard to even pick up the supposed ' chocolate/vanilla/mint' that is meant to be that particular products flavor, let alone the type of creatine it contains

Hanley · 19-12-2008 7:27pm

quirkster wrote: »

i admire your tasting ability. i for one find it hard to even pick up the supposed ' chocolate/vanilla/mint' that is meant to be that particular products flavor, let alone the type of creatine it contains

Pure CEE is notoriously bitter.

Mono just tastes chalky...

Supplements

Comments